LAKERS -at- ROCKETS – 3-15-17 - Thoughts and :-(( Ratings
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:09 pm    Post subject: LAKERS -at- ROCKETS – 3-15-17 - Thoughts and :-(( Ratings

Hot Garbage… The Lakers trailed by 8 points late in the third, but ended up losing the game by 39 points. It was a poor close to the third quarter and an equally poor first few minutes of the fourth. The team buckled.

Defensively, they missed rotations, played Lou like it was the first time they saw him, and struggled again with transition D. They gave up 46 points in the fourth quarter, forcing Luke to call a timeout and bench a second unit with just a minute left in the game.

“I’m not okay with it,” Luke said. “I’ve got a fire burning in me that gets pissed off when you’re down 30 something. To watch them just grab a rebound and throw it up and get a fastbreak dunk while they all laugh and celebrate? I’m not okay with that.”

Some excellent fight offensively in this game from Julius Randle. He had 22 points in the first half and finished with a career-high 32. That and a solid outing again from Ingram were the only bright spots.


Randle -- -- “Love his game offensively,” Luke said. “Defensively, I told him he needs to be better than that. He’s too good of an athlete and too good of a basketball player to make some of the mistakes he makes.” Career-high night with 32 points on an efficient 13-17 shooting. This was almost a Charles Barkley kind of game from Randle. The only thing missing was making a couple of the threes he took (actually he did make one from half court just after a buzzer). Sensational first half with 22 points on 8-11 shooting and 7 boards (the rest of the starters had 21). He was overpowering guys in the paint with speed and strength. There was a sequence in the first half when he took out two Rockets with an off arm on the offensive end. Later, he shed a third big with an off arm on the defensive glass. Very physical game. On the defensive end, there were mistakes in simple execution. Sometimes he’d position himself poorly or he might not close out on a shooter like Lou or push him back to his right. Or we’d have the usual lack of communication. “I just got to stay locked in the whole game…I got to be a better leader than that,” Randle said. Still, there were very few positive in this one, so I’m not going to dwell on it. Beastly offensive game. The work he’s putting in on conditioning seemed to have his motor running much higher tonight. One of the more dominating games from any of our young guys on the offensive end of the floor this season. Russell, Clarkson and Zubac all have had pretty big scoring games and made it look easy even. Nice to see Randle bust out with one. He imposed his will on the opponent. The Stats: He scored 32 points on 13-17 shooting (0-1 from three, 6-9 from the line) to go with 8 boards, 2 assists, 2 turnovers and 4 fouls in 29:28. He was a -20. The Action: He muscled his way around Harden in the paint for a layup. He drew FTs when Zubac found him open under the hoop, he made both. He pushed out the board, elevated over the D and scored a layup. He missed a wing three, stepping back on a kickout. He scored a layup off an interior feed. He caught his man flat-footed for an And-1 layup after faking the DHO (more of that please), he made the FT. He missed a layup on an iso drive. He had the chair pulled, kept his dribble alive, got back up and scored the layup. He pushed out the break and scored the And-1 running over a man in the restricted area in the process, he made the FT. He left Lou open for a three. He attacked a man, sent him flying, missed, grabbed the miss and was called with an off-arm foul on the finish. Clarkson found him breaking down court for the And-1 layup, he made the FT. He got a switch and overpowered Ariza in the paint for FTs, he made one. His man couldn’t finish a lob, Randle grabbed the board, pushed it out and scored the layup going coast to coast (just too big and too fast). Low position on a smaller man on a rim run for FTs next time down, he missed both this time. He knocked his man, grabbed the board, pushed it out, drew the D and fed Ingram for the uncontested dunk. He hit a half-court three, but got it off just after the buzzer so it didn’t count. Second Half: He posted up, took contact and hit the fading jumper in the lane. He iso’d and hit the turnaround next time down (got away with a little step before putting the ball down). He set up an Ingram three on a kickout. He filled the lane on the break and Russell found him for the layup. He faced up in the post, got a step past his man and muscled in the dunk. He missed a three. He was called for an offensive foul, losing the dribble and trying to clear out as he grabbed it. He held his pivot foot, bumped his man and hit the jumphook. He posted up and found Nwaba under the hoop for the layup.

Ingram -- -- He had 12 points on 6-7 shooting in the first half. He said he’s tweaked his shot and it’s been looking money lately. Not just going in, but splashing. He’s getting that triple threat confidence right now. Let’s see how it builds. Prior to the season, I wasn’t anticipating any huge games this year because of the amount of work he needed to put in, but the work he has put it is definitely paying off. He had a few too many turnovers in this one, misfiring some passes and OC on one drive. Defensively, he was missing some rotations like everybody. He didn’t have much impact in man D despite a spirited effort. “Just keep getting better. It’s a process,” he said. The Stats: He scored 18 points on 8-14 shooting (2-3 from three) to go with 6 boards, 3 assists, 4 turnovers, 1 steal and 2 fouls in 39 minutes. He was a -21. The Action: He blew past Ariza to his left and scored a layup easily through the help D. A little too much air under his outlet and it was picked off. Turnover mistiming a pass to Clarkson. He missed a tag on help D to give up a score. He drained a wing jumper on iso. He misfired trying to connect with a cutter, turnover. He finished the lob dunk in transition. He swished a wing jumper off a rub screen. He found Randle in the paint for FTs on a mismatch. He tipped in a missed layup. He was blocked on a drive (should have made the extra pass). Uncontested dunk off the Randle drive and dish. Second Half: He swished a corner three off a swing pass. His man sagged off so he knocked down a three. He kicked out to Clarkson for three. He posted up and missed the short jumper. He got tapped on a three. He missed a tough wing jumper, might have been thinking two-for-one. He couldn’t finish a baseline drive. He attacked, stopped and missed the 14 footer…then gave up a layup on the other end. Out of control on a pushout, turnover, dunk the other way.

Clarkson -- -- Somewhat similar game to the last one. He was able to get to the rim for scores. Our offense wasn’t quite as iso heavy but we still only had 16 assists. That’s not going to cut it. This was a better opportunity for him to floor general with Nick on the floor, but Nick wasn’t hitting. JC still isn’t quite thinking the game for others like he needs to at that spot. There was a play where we had a mismatch in the post. JC was calling for the ball to iso on his man, but Ingram instead went right to the post for that mismatch, which was the better decision. Those are the kind decisions that shows someone is seeing the whole floor for his teammates at the PG spot. Can Clarkson do that with regularity? “It’s something new to me this year,” he said of the position and mentioned the guys around him he’s playing with are new to him, as well. He and Brewer had a really bad stretch at the end of the third quarter that kind of lost the game for the Lakers. Just a series of trips down the court coming up empty. The three shooting tonight was poor again. The ones that irk me are the off-balance ones when he has time and already having a poor three shooting game. Get your fundamentals solid and the results will improve. The Stats: He scored 18 points on 7-19 shooting (1-6 from three, 3-4 from the line) to go with 2 boards, 3 assists, 3 turnovers, 2 steals and 1 foul in 39 minutes. He was a -23. The Action: He was called for a double dribble changing his mind mid pass. He missed an open corner three. He missed a jumper from the top of the key. He attacked baseline and reversed. He missed a wing three. He got tapped on a layup after blowing by his man. He attacked to his left and hit the And-1 runner with his right, he made the FT. He attacked down the lane and hit the short one. He missed a drive into traffic. He pushed out a steal and scooped a pass ahead to Randle for the And-1 layup. He missed a layup in transition. He missed a three straight away. Quick first step around his man for an uncontested layup. He had 9 points on 4-11 shooting. Second Half: Nice extra pass to Ingram for the three. He telegraphed a pass on the perimeter, turnover. He changed directions off the weave and scored the lefty layup around the help D. He sank a sideline three off the Ingram kickout. He was swatted on a drive. He was fouled on a three on a busted play, he made two FTs. Poor shot form on a three trailing the break, just totally off balance when he didn’t need to be. He dribbled into a crowd and coughed it up, awful (And-1 the other way). He was blocked on a turnaround up against the shotclock. He was stripped, turnover. He swished a floater probing to his right. He airballed a wing three.

Zubac -- -- Foul trouble took him out of this one. His stints were reduced into short ones and he never really got into rhythm. The dam was kind of broke so protecting that rim certainly wasn’t easy. This is the thing with young rosters. Last game, Zubac had a huge night. Tonight, Randle did. The team struggles because they can’t get that impact consistently yet. That’s what it means to be a young team. The Stats: He scored 2 points on 1-2 shooting to go with 2 boards, 1 assist and 4 fouls in 10:34. He was a -4. The Action: He missed an easy one off a nice passing sequence between him and Ingram. He heard Randle calling for a pass and hit him for the FTs under the rim. Interior bounce pass to Randle for the layup. He picked up his third foul on a shot block attempt. Second Half: He scored a layup when Metta found him in the middle of the paint.

Young -- -- He looked rusty, playing like he hadn’t seen court time for a while. The young guys could use his floor spacing to make it easier on them, but even the lineup shuffling was impacting Nick in this one. He couldn’t hit anything. The Rockets don’t play great D so we may have had less need for that floor spacing than other teams but an 0-9? Ouch. Lou would have had about 25 points on 9 attempts. The Stats: He didn’t score on 0-9 shooting (0-7 from three) to go with 3 boards, 1 turnover and 1 foul in 24:21. He was a -14. The Action: He didn’t hit rim on a three on our first possession. He missed a long wing three. He missed long on a wing jumper. He missed a wing three. He was forced into an off-balance brick when the shotclock was about to expire, good awareness, though. Second Half: He missed a three to start the second half. He hit the floor for a loose ball and was fouled when a Rocket landed on him. He missed a corner three. He missed a three, got it back and missed a wing jumper. He threw a post entry away.

Russell -- -- Pretty awful game again coming off the bench. His confidence in his shot and his passing just seem way off right now. He fouled out in 25 minutes and had 7 turnovers. He had two fouls in the post, which contributed to those numbers, but the early passing caused more of the damage. He was trying to thread passes that weren’t there. After stringing together that good All Star break stretch, we shuffled things around and he’s been lost. One of his worst box scores in a while and that probably was pretty reflective of this trainwreck tonight. Defensively, he actually had some of our better reads and rotations in help D. It’s just too bad we can’t do that with any kind of consistency. The Stats: He scored 5 points on 2-10 shooting (0-5 from three, 1-2 from the line) to go with 2 boards, 2 assists, 7 turnovers, 2 steals and 6 fouls in 25 minutes. He was a -25. The Action: Turnover trying to thread a pass to I don’t know who. Another turnover trying to thread one to Ingram cutting. He missed a three in transition. He hit Nance in transition for a dunk. Another turnover trying to thread a bounce pass to Nance. He missed a layup on a drive, but Nance cleaned it up. He missed a wing three coming off a screen to take the pass. He iso’d and hit the pull-up jumper from the top of the key. Nice help D on a big to force a turnover. He crossed over and hit another 18-footer. He was stripped on a reach, turnover. He choked a point-blank layup off a curl into the lane, uggh. He swiped a pass on good weakside help. He missed a three off the kickback. He posted up Lou and drew FTs, he made one. Second Half: He hit Randle in transition for a layup. He was called for a shove off ball (Luke was pissed at the refs for missing the first one by the Rockets). He missed a wing three. He attacked and couldn’t finish the runner. He missed a corner three. He posted up and fouled out on a bit of a flop by Beverley.

Nance -- -- He had a couple of moments in this one but not much. I thought we might have seen some good energy/impact from him when he went after an offensive board and tipped it out, but he was a non-factor as the game went along. The Stats: He scored 4 points on 2-2 shooting to go with 2 boards, 1 turnover, 1 steal and 2 fouls in 7:35. He was a -6. The Action: He was called for a push-off foul in transition. He deflected a pass and Russell hit him in transition for the dunk. Nice work on a tip out on the offensive board (he can do this a lot more if he puts his mind to it). He cleaned up the dribble penetration miss by Russell. Second Half: Nothing to report.

Brewer -- -- There was a third quarter stretch in this game where I thought Brewer and Clarkson killed us, and it was all downhill from there. They were just compounding our suckage offensive for several possessions straight and that broke our backs. Brewer on the youth: “If you’re going to be the future of the Lakers, you got to give the fans something to look forward to,” he said. No questioning Brewer’s effort. Impact-wise, the young guys are passing the baton from one player to the next. It’s Russell, then Clarkson, then Zubac, then Randle. We need it to be Russell AND Clarkson AND Zubac, Randle, Ingram, etc. Corey gave us 4 points and at least one draft pick (our lottery fate still awaits). Meanwhile, Lou dropped 30. Lou’s timing with our team was off, but he’ll have some serious impact for the Rockets in the playoffs this year. The Stats: He scored 4 points on 2-5 shooting (0-2 from three) to go with 3 boards, 1 assist, 2 turnovers, 2 steals and 1 foul in 22 minutes. He was a -28. The Action: He was stripped on a drive. He lobbed to Ingram in transition. He attacked down the lane and missed the layup. Second Half: He missed a corner three on a kickout by Randle. He missed a wing three. He traveled next time down. He swiped a ball in the backcourt and scored a layup. He swiped another one and pushed out the break.

Black -- -- Pretty quiet game from him. Our pick and roll game with him has all but dried up right now. Defensively, nice job with a couple of steals. The Rockets almost matched us in turnover numbers in this one. The Stats: He didn’t score on 0-1 shooting to go with 6 boards, 2 steals and no fouls in 9 minutes. He was a -6. The Action: He missed badly on a jumphook. Second Half: He poked away a post entry pass to ignite a Laker breakaway score.

Ennis -- -- His stat line looks better than it was. We were getting steamrolled a bit defensively while he was out there. Offensively, the Rockets were playing garbage-time D. The Stats: He scored 7 points on 3-4 shooting (0-1 from three, 1-1 form the line) to go with 1 board, 1 assist and 1 foul in 9 minutes. He was a -16. The Action: Nothing to report. Second Half: Awful defense on Lou on one end, but he took it right back down court for an And-1 layup a few seconds later, he made the FT. He bricked a three off a screen. He probed and got a kind bounce on the 15-footer. He drew the D and hit Robinson rolling for the layup. He blew past the D and scored a layup (not sure anyone is playing defense right now).

Robinson -- -- He came in for Randle in the fourth, thus ending any final bit of enjoyment in this one. I would have liked to see Randle go for 40. At least there would have been that. The Stats: He scored 6 points on 2-3 shooting (2-2 from the line) to go with 1 board, 1 turnover and 1 foul in 5 minutes. He was a -5. The Action: He did not play in the first half. Second Half: Illegal screen right after entering. He missed a FT jumper. He drew FTs off the two-man game with JC, he made both. He scored a layup rolling to the paint off a pass. He attacked baseline and scored a layup.

Nwaba -- -- He came in in the third quarter when Zubac then Russell picked up foul trouble. We moved Nick into the starter spot again after the Nwaba starting experiment was over, but went small by sliding Randle to the C spot with those subs. Luke praised his effort and was ticked off at the refs not calling a foul on a drive he had late in the game. The refs were done, too. The Stats: He scored 4 points on 2-5 shooting to go with 2 boards, 2 assists and 2 fouls in 18 minutes. He was a -25. The Action: He did not play in the first half. Second Half: He was fouled with no call on a drive and missed. He quickly out let to Brewer for a breakaway dunk. He blew past Lou and scored the easy layup. He missed a layup in semi transition. He scored a layup off the interior feed from Randle. He slivered through the D and missed a layup.

World Peace -- -- A garbage time failure to play any D and Luke benched all five players, bringing in five more with just over a minute left. That included Metta. Good decision by Luke, not accepting that from that group. The Stats: The Action: He did not play in the first half. Second Half: He spotted Zu for a score in the paint. He got caught in the air on a drive and threw it away.

Walton -- -- The Lakers trailed by 5 when Zubac picked up his second foul and sat him for Russell after 5 minutes, going small… Brewer in for Young, Lakers down 6 midway through the quarter… Nance in for Randle, who was the only one scoring… Too many turnovers and the Lakers D giving up so many layups and unchallenged finishes… The Lakers trailed 37-26 after the first quarter. They had 9 turnovers… Nance, Brewer, Young, Russell, Ennis lineup to start the quarter… Down 16 when Black came in for Nance after 3 minutes… Clarkson and Randle back in… Down 19 when Russell sat for Ingram… Zubac in briefly before sitting again with his third foul for Russell… Amazing half by Randle, just getting to the rim relentlessly… The Lakers trailed 66-52 at the half. They shot 0-10 from three, the Rockets 8-22 from three. Rockets had 17 assists, Lakers 5… Young out for Russell after a couple minutes when he got squashed… More Randle scoring to start the half and the Lakers trimmed it to 9… Fourth foul by Zubac and he sat after 4 minutes for Brewer… Russell picked up his fourth and fifth and had to sit a minute later. Nwaba in… They cut it to 8 when the timeout came midway through the quarter… Out of that, the lead ballooned back up to 15 and he sat Randle for Black with 3:38 left… Clarkson and Brewer killing the Lakers at the end of the quarter offensively… The Lakers trailed 93-75 heading into the fourth… He started a Randle, Ingram, Young, Nwaba, Russell lineup… He sat Ingram and Young, down 24… Lakers just getting overwhelmed now… Ennis in after Russell fouled out with 6:40 left… Robinson in for Randle. There goes the last bit of enjoyment in this one… No defense by anyone right now on either end. Just awful even for garbage time… After giving up a transition dunk, Luke decided to bench all the garbage-time players with a minute left. Actually like that…
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Laker_Dynasty_01
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:13 pm    Post subject:

Worst, er, First?
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:20 pm    Post subject:

Hey Luke, if you're pissed about this, go look in the mirror, or at your boss. One of you is the one putting the kids in constant tank lineups and then acting like they're nuts when playing to win doesn't seem like it should be on their mind any more than it is on yours.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:33 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Hey Luke, if you're pissed about this, go look in the mirror, or at your boss. One of you is the one putting the kids in constant tank lineups and then acting like they're nuts when playing to win doesn't seem like it should be on their mind any more than it is on yours.
As stated many times, being professional and always giving effort is a prerequisite

Having Deng or Mosgov on the court make any difference?

Having LouWill win games singlehandedly help the development of the young players?

What lineups will limit missed defensive assignments and careless passes on offense?

All these players are auditioning for Magic, Rob and Luke PLUS all the other GMs.

Team will definitely look different next year
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:47 pm    Post subject:

Thanks DB.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:15 pm    Post subject:

Thanks, DB!

Quote:
“I’m not okay with it,” Luke said. “I’ve got a fire burning in me that gets pissed off when you’re down 30 something. To watch them just grab a rebound and throw it up and get a fastbreak dunk while they all laugh and celebrate? I’m not okay with that.”


That's our new Lakers. We may all thank the tanking crew. The fans who celebrate tanking – this is what you get. Losing is for losers. You only cultivate this kind of attitude when you start losing on purpose.
#hatethetank
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:26 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
What lineups will limit missed defensive assignments and careless passes on offense?


The Lakers started this lineup for three games:
T.Black, L.Deng, T.Mozgov, D.Russell, N.Young

They posted an excellent 92.5 defensive rating and +15.9 net rating.

Since then, every single one of those players has been deactivated / demoted in some way.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:31 pm    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
Quote:
What lineups will limit missed defensive assignments and careless passes on offense?


The Lakers started this lineup for three games:
T.Black, L.Deng, T.Mozgov, D.Russell, N.Young

They posted an excellent 92.5 defensive rating and +15.9 net rating.

Since then, every single one of those players has been deactivated / demoted in some way.


Yup.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:58 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
It’s Russell, then Clarkson, then Zubac, then Randle. We need it to be Russell AND Clarkson AND Zubac, Randle, Ingram, etc


It's sad but I get the feeling the FO prefers the former to the latter, in the name of keeping the pick. The Suns game was very close to being the latter, and we saw the carnage that resulted from that. Starting Nwaba
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:06 pm    Post subject:

Players are out of sync with these crazy lineups. They need some continuity.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:32 am    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
Quote:
What lineups will limit missed defensive assignments and careless passes on offense?
The Lakers started this lineup for three games:
T.Black, L.Deng, T.Mozgov, D.Russell, N.Young

They posted an excellent 92.5 defensive rating and +15.9 net rating.

Since then, every single one of those players has been deactivated / demoted in some way.
Appreciate your humor

As Zach Lowe stated in a recent article and posted in another thread, DLO's defensive liabilities are many

Mosgov was too slow in his defensive rotations while providing little in rim protection or rebounds

Black rarely plays a 4 and definitely not with Mosgov. His recent play has been trending downward on defense since he has no offensive game

When one is depending on Swaggy to be good on defense, one is desperate though his efforts are to be commended

Deng has been MIA since the beginning of the season and has not made much of an impact on many games while not being a leader on defense

Maybe a lineup of Nwaba, Brewer, Ingram, Zubac and Nance could provide average defensive pressure. However, there would be no offense - lmao.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:35 am    Post subject:

A Mad Chinaman wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
Quote:
What lineups will limit missed defensive assignments and careless passes on offense?
The Lakers started this lineup for three games:
T.Black, L.Deng, T.Mozgov, D.Russell, N.Young

They posted an excellent 92.5 defensive rating and +15.9 net rating.

Since then, every single one of those players has been deactivated / demoted in some way.
Appreciate your humor

As Zach Lowe stated in a recent article and posted in another thread, DLO's defensive liabilities are many

Mosgov was too slow in his defensive rotations while providing little in rim protection or rebounds

Black rarely plays a 4 and definitely not with Mosgov. His recent play has been trending downward on defense since he has no offensive game

When one is depending on Swaggy to be good on defense, one is desperate though his efforts are to be commended

Deng has been MIA since the beginning of the season and has not made much of an impact on many games while not being a leader on defense

Maybe a lineup of Nwaba, Brewer, Ingram, Zubac and Nance could provide average defensive pressure. However, there would be no offense - lmao.


Think whatever you want about these players, but what I posted was a fact, not an editorial.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:56 am    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
A Mad Chinaman wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
Quote:
What lineups will limit missed defensive assignments and careless passes on offense?
The Lakers started this lineup for three games:
T.Black, L.Deng, T.Mozgov, D.Russell, N.Young

They posted an excellent 92.5 defensive rating and +15.9 net rating.

Since then, every single one of those players has been deactivated / demoted in some way.
Appreciate your humor

As Zach Lowe stated in a recent article and posted in another thread, DLO's defensive liabilities are many

Mosgov was too slow in his defensive rotations while providing little in rim protection or rebounds

Black rarely plays a 4 and definitely not with Mosgov. His recent play has been trending downward on defense since he has no offensive game

When one is depending on Swaggy to be good on defense, one is desperate though his efforts are to be commended

Deng has been MIA since the beginning of the season and has not made much of an impact on many games while not being a leader on defense

Maybe a lineup of Nwaba, Brewer, Ingram, Zubac and Nance could provide average defensive pressure. However, there would be no offense - lmao.
Think whatever you want about these players, but what I posted was a fact, not an editorial.
Which 3 games that Black started at the 4?

What were their +/- in those games that probably occur early in the season

There is a reason why Black, Mosgov, Deng and DLO have not played much in the latter part of the season, which is required since one can pick and choose selective games and quarters to highlight a position

Look forward to your reply
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:17 am    Post subject:

A Mad Chinaman wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
A Mad Chinaman wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
Quote:
What lineups will limit missed defensive assignments and careless passes on offense?
The Lakers started this lineup for three games:
T.Black, L.Deng, T.Mozgov, D.Russell, N.Young

They posted an excellent 92.5 defensive rating and +15.9 net rating.

Since then, every single one of those players has been deactivated / demoted in some way.
Appreciate your humor

As Zach Lowe stated in a recent article and posted in another thread, DLO's defensive liabilities are many

Mosgov was too slow in his defensive rotations while providing little in rim protection or rebounds

Black rarely plays a 4 and definitely not with Mosgov. His recent play has been trending downward on defense since he has no offensive game

When one is depending on Swaggy to be good on defense, one is desperate though his efforts are to be commended

Deng has been MIA since the beginning of the season and has not made much of an impact on many games while not being a leader on defense

Maybe a lineup of Nwaba, Brewer, Ingram, Zubac and Nance could provide average defensive pressure. However, there would be no offense - lmao.
Think whatever you want about these players, but what I posted was a fact, not an editorial.
Which 3 games that Black started at the 4?

What were their +/- in those games that probably occur early in the season

There is a reason why Black, Mosgov, Deng and DLO have not played much in the latter part of the season, which is required since one can pick and choose selective games and quarters to highlight a position

Look forward to your reply


The last game of these three games in a row was on Feb 3rd, 2017. These were the last three games that Deng and Mozgov started for this team. This lineup was a +14 through these three games. Any other questions trying to fish for something to fit your preconceived narrative?
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:40 am    Post subject:

The only narrative this season is that we suck. I think that what Chinaman is trying to say that Black at 4 and starting Deng would not save us. 3 games is wayy too small a sample size to draw meaningful conclusions and too simple a generalization about the team's defensive performance.

Who were the teams we played against? What were the matchups? How did the bench perform? And more questions are more relevant than just looking at the starters in that game and net defensive rating.

Side note - Anyone else notice that the word 'narrative' might be one of the top 3 most used words on this forum?

Thanks DB!
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:50 am    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
A Mad Chinaman wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
A Mad Chinaman wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
Quote:
What lineups will limit missed defensive assignments and careless passes on offense?
The Lakers started this lineup for three games:
T.Black, L.Deng, T.Mozgov, D.Russell, N.Young

They posted an excellent 92.5 defensive rating and +15.9 net rating.

Since then, every single one of those players has been deactivated / demoted in some way.
Appreciate your humor

As Zach Lowe stated in a recent article and posted in another thread, DLO's defensive liabilities are many

Mosgov was too slow in his defensive rotations while providing little in rim protection or rebounds

Black rarely plays a 4 and definitely not with Mosgov. His recent play has been trending downward on defense since he has no offensive game

When one is depending on Swaggy to be good on defense, one is desperate though his efforts are to be commended

Deng has been MIA since the beginning of the season and has not made much of an impact on many games while not being a leader on defense

Maybe a lineup of Nwaba, Brewer, Ingram, Zubac and Nance could provide average defensive pressure. However, there would be no offense - lmao.
Think whatever you want about these players, but what I posted was a fact, not an editorial.
Which 3 games that Black started at the 4?

What were their +/- in those games that probably occur early in the season

There is a reason why Black, Mosgov, Deng and DLO have not played much in the latter part of the season, which is required since one can pick and choose selective games and quarters to highlight a position

Look forward to your reply


The last game of these three games in a row was on Feb 3rd, 2017. These were the last three games that Deng and Mozgov started for this team. This lineup was a +14 through these three games. Any other questions trying to fish for something to fit your preconceived narrative?


Chinaman,
I'm sorry, but what you are posting is a bunch of presumptions. It is just not fair to ignore the good defense Young has played for almost two seasons now. The last game I would ignore - he was really rusty.
As of the best lineups - they are not so difficult to find: http://www.82games.com/1617/1617LAL2.HTM
Russell-Young-Deng-Black-Mozgov has 100% win percentage.
Clarkson-Williams-Ingram-NanceJr-Robinson is at 75% (thank you, Lou for outscoring everyone)
Russell-Young-Ingram-Deng-Mozgov is at 66.6%.

The three best defensive lineups have been:
Clarkson-Williams-Ingram-Deng-Black - 0.93 points allowed per possession
Russell-Young-Deng-Black-Mozgov - 0.95
Russell-Young-Ingram-Deng-Mozgov - 0.96

The combo of Russell-Young-Deng-Mozgov is rather solid. You can call some of them slow and old or whatever, but they were getting things done.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:50 am    Post subject:

Ujah's Goat wrote:
The only narrative this season is that we suck. I think that what Chinaman is trying to say that Black at 4 and starting Deng would not save us. 3 games is wayy too small a sample size to draw meaningful conclusions and too simple a generalization about the team's defensive performance.

Who were the teams we played against? What were the matchups? How did the bench perform? And more questions are more relevant than just looking at the starters in that game and net defensive rating.

Side note - Anyone else notice that the word 'narrative' might be one of the top 3 most used words on this forum?

Thanks DB!


He asked the question. I answered. They played Denver, Boston, and Washington. Not exactly pushovers. We have some lineups that aren't tire fires on defense. Another one- our most played lineup of the entire season- the original starting lineup with Mosgov and Randle. People want to bash our players as if we aren't tanking on purpose. It's ridiculous.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:51 am    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
A Mad Chinaman wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
A Mad Chinaman wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
Quote:
What lineups will limit missed defensive assignments and careless passes on offense?
The Lakers started this lineup for three games:
T.Black, L.Deng, T.Mozgov, D.Russell, N.Young

They posted an excellent 92.5 defensive rating and +15.9 net rating.

Since then, every single one of those players has been deactivated / demoted in some way.
Appreciate your humor

As Zach Lowe stated in a recent article and posted in another thread, DLO's defensive liabilities are many

Mosgov was too slow in his defensive rotations while providing little in rim protection or rebounds

Black rarely plays a 4 and definitely not with Mosgov. His recent play has been trending downward on defense since he has no offensive game

When one is depending on Swaggy to be good on defense, one is desperate though his efforts are to be commended

Deng has been MIA since the beginning of the season and has not made much of an impact on many games while not being a leader on defense

Maybe a lineup of Nwaba, Brewer, Ingram, Zubac and Nance could provide average defensive pressure. However, there would be no offense - lmao.
Think whatever you want about these players, but what I posted was a fact, not an editorial.
Which 3 games that Black started at the 4?

What were their +/- in those games that probably occur early in the season

There is a reason why Black, Mosgov, Deng and DLO have not played much in the latter part of the season, which is required since one can pick and choose selective games and quarters to highlight a position

Look forward to your reply


The last game of these three games in a row was on Feb 3rd, 2017. These were the last three games that Deng and Mozgov started for this team. This lineup was a +14 through these three games. Any other questions trying to fish for something to fit your preconceived narrative?


I went to check and those games were:

120-116 W vs Denver
108-116 L @ Washington
107-113 L @ Boston

One win over a team that smashed us last Monday and 2 close road losses against teams #2 and #3 in the East. FWIW, DLO had 9apg in these three games.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:42 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Obviously all the identified lineups that provided the better defensive stats has not resulted in wins and consistency - noting that the three identified games resulted in a record of 1-2.


If this were a 0.500 team, the most expected outcome after three games would either be 1-2 or 2-1. Considering the caliber of competition they faced, they came out pretty well, considering it was the bench that gave up the lead. And your standard is about being competitive, not wins and losses right? Well, when you trade, sit all the vets and bring in a mismash of guys who never played together and play lineups devoid of shooting the expected outcome is losing badly. (As someone noted above, the tank lineup got smashed against the team that the other lineup beat). And you want to knock the players as if this weren't a massive tank job? Like I said, ridiculous.

EDIT: This was a response to a deleted post.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:32 am    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
Ujah's Goat wrote:
The only narrative this season is that we suck. I think that what Chinaman is trying to say that Black at 4 and starting Deng would not save us. 3 games is wayy too small a sample size to draw meaningful conclusions and too simple a generalization about the team's defensive performance.

Who were the teams we played against? What were the matchups? How did the bench perform? And more questions are more relevant than just looking at the starters in that game and net defensive rating.

Side note - Anyone else notice that the word 'narrative' might be one of the top 3 most used words on this forum?

Thanks DB!


He asked the question. I answered. They played Denver, Boston, and Washington. Not exactly pushovers. We have some lineups that aren't tire fires on defense. Another one- our most played lineup of the entire season- the original starting lineup with Mosgov and Randle. People want to bash our players as if we aren't tanking on purpose. It's ridiculous.


I get what you're saying. Disagree with the bolded. I'm sure the "players don't tank, FO's do" crowd does as well. Our players are bashing themselves by their woeful effort and disastrous play. No way around that.


Last edited by Ujah's Goat on Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:01 am    Post subject:

Thanks again DB. Ugly fugly game.

Ugh. For posters who celebrate losses and get angry when we win:

What does this tanking strategy accomplish?

Answer: A slightly better than 50% chance we get another promising rookie, and a greatly diminished chance of pulling in ANY top-tier free agents. And an awful product on the floor. And a smaller window for the draft picks we already won to develop cohesiveness and turn into the kind of players we dreamed we were getting before each of the last 3 drafts we tanked for.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:28 am    Post subject:

A smugly, fugly, mugly, sucky game.

IMO players were giving more effort but with Zubac and Russell in foul trouble and Lou not on the team anymore meant the rest of the guys got steamrolled.

Swaggy and DLo were getting open shots but could not hit anything (2 for 19). DLo was on the floor with Brewer, Nance, Black and Nwaba most of the team so he was the only real offensive threat and the Rockets knew it.

Our best defenders (Brewer and Nwaba) were a -53 during their time on the court. Russell and Clarkson were a -48. That is over -100 from our wing defenders and our best shot blocker (Zubac) only got 11 minutes due to foul trouble.

Flush this film down the toilet and start over again at the next practice.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:49 pm    Post subject:

Thanks DB! Ah yes, the revolting stench of another rotting season in Tankville. Hot garbage, indeed!
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:05 pm    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
Quote:
Obviously all the identified lineups that provided the better defensive stats has not resulted in wins and consistency - noting that the three identified games resulted in a record of 1-2.
If this were a 0.500 team, the most expected outcome after three games would either be 1-2 or 2-1. Considering the caliber of competition they faced, they came out pretty well, considering it was the bench that gave up the lead. And your standard is about being competitive, not wins and losses right? Well, when you trade, sit all the vets and bring in a mismash of guys who never played together and play lineups devoid of shooting the expected outcome is losing badly. (As someone noted above, the tank lineup got smashed against the team that the other lineup beat). And you want to knock the players as if this weren't a massive tank job? Like I said, ridiculous.

EDIT: This was a response to a deleted post.
Thanks to your reply to my deleted rambling post

This obvious tank job could be interpreted as an outstanding and rare opportunity to show everyone that they deserve to be in the league that starts with giving maximum effort. Careless TOs and lack of effort is a sure way to get out of the league. Not making baskets and making misreads is understandable.

The vets (Deng and Mosgov) were not making any tangible impact, so the value of these two players (since they were usually not getting starter minutes) were minimal.

It appears that the roster will have multiple changes to improve the talent and D - who will remain could be the most important question
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:15 pm    Post subject:

A Mad Chinaman wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
Quote:
Obviously all the identified lineups that provided the better defensive stats has not resulted in wins and consistency - noting that the three identified games resulted in a record of 1-2.
If this were a 0.500 team, the most expected outcome after three games would either be 1-2 or 2-1. Considering the caliber of competition they faced, they came out pretty well, considering it was the bench that gave up the lead. And your standard is about being competitive, not wins and losses right? Well, when you trade, sit all the vets and bring in a mismash of guys who never played together and play lineups devoid of shooting the expected outcome is losing badly. (As someone noted above, the tank lineup got smashed against the team that the other lineup beat). And you want to knock the players as if this weren't a massive tank job? Like I said, ridiculous.

EDIT: This was a response to a deleted post.
Thanks to your reply to my deleted rambling post

This obvious tank job could be interpreted as an outstanding and rare opportunity to show everyone that they deserve to be in the league that starts with giving maximum effort. Careless TOs and lack of effort is a sure way to get out of the league. Not making baskets and making misreads is understandable.

The vets (Deng and Mosgov) were not making any tangible impact, so the value of these two players (since they were usually not getting starter minutes) were minimal.

It appears that the roster will have multiple changes to improve the talent and D - who will remain could be the most important question


If all these players where as garbage as you're saying than no way that the original starting lineup (Russell-Young-Deng-Randle-Mozgov) outscores opposing (STARTING) lineups in about half the games that they play and ends up a +44 on the season. This is the value of statistics, that record what actually happened rather than operating on biased eye tests and platitudes.
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