Westbrook chasing history
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
 
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> General Basketball Discussion Reply to topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
BadGuy
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 3616

PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:39 pm    Post subject:

You guys made some good points, and, Dreamshake, you are correct about Gordon not being an all-star. I remembered him from that weekend, but he was not in the actual game. I still think Westbrook deserves the MVP this year, but I understand the argument for Harden better now.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Mike D
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 921

PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:29 pm    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:

Rebounders and paint protectors? Who would they be? Clearly not Capela and Nene. Now, Westbrook does have those. He has one of the best frontlines in basketball. Usually a solid frontline is a positive for a guard, but we are all supposed to believe his teammates are scrubs this year.

...

They got to the WCF's....



Did you just call Domantas Sabonis, who started 64 games, part of "one of the best frontlines in basketball?" I just have to point that out. By what stretch have you concluded OKC one of the best frontcourts? Who makes up this dominant frontcourt? The only reason OKC has strong rebound rates is RW is putting up absurd RPG numbers.

-Steven Adams averages 7.6 RPG, second highest to RW. This is not staggering by anyone's assessment.
-Taj Gibson has been on the team for what, 15 games? Started 10?
-Enes Kanter is a defensive liability.

---

To insinuate that this team is even similar to the same one that got to the WCF last year is a farce. That team had chemistry, continuity built over years, more experience, and was exceedingly better.

---

Just because someone else got some facts wrong doesn't mean this should devolve into make believe arguments.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:27 am    Post subject:

BadGuy wrote:
You guys made some good points, and, Dreamshake, you are correct about Gordon not being an all-star. I remembered him from that weekend, but he was not in the actual game. I still think Westbrook deserves the MVP this year, but I understand the argument for Harden better now.


I respect your opinion. In part, my own opinion is shaped by my view that Westbrook is a knucklehead. Still, I wouldn't be offended if Westbrook won the MVP. He's had a great season.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
governator
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 24996

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:03 am    Post subject:

Clint Capela is a stud
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
dont_be_a_wuss
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Posts: 21415

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 3:03 pm    Post subject:

The Thunder are playing on NBATV right now if you want to watch Westrbrook chase another triple double.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Worthy42
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 19952

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:42 pm    Post subject:

Just sick. Brought the team back from 21. Hit a 35ft 3 to tie it up. 50+ pt triple double.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
lakers0505
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 10701

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:48 pm    Post subject:

Worthy42 wrote:
Just sick. Brought the team back from 21. Hit a 35ft 3 to tie it up. 50+ pt triple double.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
dont_be_a_wuss
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Posts: 21415

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:49 pm    Post subject:

Worthy42 wrote:
Just sick. Brought the team back from 21. Hit a 35ft 3 to tie it up. 50+ pt triple double.


Ridiculous finish! He seemed to have put the triple double to the side in order to get aggressive and push for the win, and the basketball gods reward him with an extra 5 minutes and a win.

Highest scoring triple double in NBA history.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
The Logo
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 25 Jul 2013
Posts: 9577
Location: Salem, OR

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:56 pm    Post subject:

He's definitely going to break the record. Just incredible.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Dreamshake
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13709

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:38 pm    Post subject:

Mike D wrote:

Did you just call Domantas Sabonis, who started 64 games, part of "one of the best frontlines in basketball?"]


I was referring to Adams and Kanter. And I said one of the best, not the best. Here is SI's preseason player rankings. Adams was ranked #40 and Kanter (who is soft on D like you noted but great offensively) was #80.

https://www.si.com/nba/2016/09/12/nba-top-100-player-rankings

Pull any preseason player rankings and you will see both up there. These guys didn't morph into scrubs just because Westbrook decided to be on pace for the most shots in league history and because they willingly let him grab rebounds.

Mike D wrote:

The only reason OKC has strong rebound rates is RW is putting up absurd RPG numbers.


His bigs are voluntarily giving up boards so he can chase triple doubles.

Mike D wrote:

To insinuate that this team is even similar to the same one that got to the WCF last year is a farce. That team had chemistry, continuity built over years, more experience, and was exceedingly better.


Maybe you are confusing me with someone else? All I've noted is Westbrook isn't playing with scrubs. His team has talent. Not championship talent but not scrubs.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Dreamshake
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13709

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:40 pm    Post subject:

Worthy42 wrote:
Just sick. Brought the team back from 21. Hit a 35ft 3 to tie it up. 50+ pt triple double.


Impressive. Not quite as impressive as Harden's 53/16/17 game (on 26 shots), or his 51/13/13 game (on 28 shots), but still impressive (he took 40 shots tonight).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
ringfinger
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:44 pm    Post subject:

Tons of players have played the game and few have averaged a trip dub. Harden is deserving no dount, but WB gets my vote even though I dont like him
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Dreamshake
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13709

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:52 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Tons of players have played the game and few have averaged a trip dub. Harden is deserving no dount, but WB gets my vote even though I dont like him


Harden is having a better statistical season than Westbrook. He's 2 rebounds behind him but much more efficient. His numbers are bananas too.

Ton's of players haven't had the goal of averaging a triple double while being on a team where it was a team goal as well. Ton's of players aren't going to be on teams where they can shoot more than anyone else in league history, or where one guy gets to dominate the ball (Harden benefits from that as well), or well teammates come off boards so you can get them. Props to Westbrook for doing it (one of the few capable IMO), but averaging one really hasn't been a focus for anyone else to this extent. I'm sure Magic could have done it if the team allowed him to stat chase like OKC is doing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
focus
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 23 May 2012
Posts: 2526

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:10 pm    Post subject:

Russ is amazing. Incredible MVP performance.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
jonnybravo
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 30621

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:53 pm    Post subject:

Mike D wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:

Rebounders and paint protectors? Who would they be? Clearly not Capela and Nene. Now, Westbrook does have those. He has one of the best frontlines in basketball. Usually a solid frontline is a positive for a guard, but we are all supposed to believe his teammates are scrubs this year.

...

They got to the WCF's....



Did you just call Domantas Sabonis, who started 64 games, part of "one of the best frontlines in basketball?" I just have to point that out. By what stretch have you concluded OKC one of the best frontcourts? Who makes up this dominant frontcourt? The only reason OKC has strong rebound rates is RW is putting up absurd RPG numbers.

-Steven Adams averages 7.6 RPG, second highest to RW. This is not staggering by anyone's assessment.
-Taj Gibson has been on the team for what, 15 games? Started 10?
-Enes Kanter is a defensive liability.

---

To insinuate that this team is even similar to the same one that got to the WCF last year is a farce. That team had chemistry, continuity built over years, more experience, and was exceedingly better.

---

Just because someone else got some facts wrong doesn't mean this should devolve into make believe arguments.


The bigs are actively boxing out to allow Russ' the boards. Even Donovan has mentioned it. It's by design since it allows Russ to push the ball up...and that's ok.

With that said, different team/chemistry or whatnot, the guys on OKC are NOT scrubs. I've heard it repeatedly (not by you) compared with Kobe's teammates in his 2005-2006 campaign which astounding. Smush...1 contract, out of the league. All our key bench guys like Farmar/Sasha etc..bam, in and out of hte league after leaving the Lakers while in their GD prime. Mihm...nuff said...glass ankles. Brian Cook...really? Luke Walton?!

I guarantee that if OKC had a fire sale, there would be a line out the door for a lot of their guys. The notion that he's playing with scrubs is outright insulting.

With all that said, I would absolutely killl to have Westbrook.
_________________
KOBE
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Dreamshake
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13709

PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:53 am    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:

I guarantee that if OKC had a fire sale, there would be a line out the door for a lot of their guys. The notion that he's playing with scrubs is outright insulting.


Exactly. Morey would trade everyone on the roster, besides Harden, for either of Adams, Kanter or Oladipo.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
governator
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 24996

PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:10 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:

I guarantee that if OKC had a fire sale, there would be a line out the door for a lot of their guys. The notion that he's playing with scrubs is outright insulting.


Exactly. Morey would trade everyone on the roster, besides Harden, for either of Adams, Kanter or Oladipo.


OKC has good players but Rockets has good players too and Rockets players fit better than OKC. Clint Capela, Ryan Anderson, Eric Gordon, Ariza, Patrick Beverly are just as good as OKC's players.
I'll give Rockets FO more points compare to OKC's in assembling the team but for MVP, Westbrook over Harden
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Dreamshake
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13709

PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:14 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:

I guarantee that if OKC had a fire sale, there would be a line out the door for a lot of their guys. The notion that he's playing with scrubs is outright insulting.


Exactly. Morey would trade everyone on the roster, besides Harden, for either of Adams, Kanter or Oladipo.


OKC has good players but Rockets has good players too and Rockets players fit better than OKC. Clint Capela, Ryan Anderson, Eric Gordon, Ariza, Patrick Beverly are just as good as OKC's players.
I'll give Rockets FO more points compare to OKC's in assembling the team but for MVP, Westbrook over Harden


Those players aren't just as good. Neither one is as good as Kanter, Adams or Oladipo.

Neither team has scrubs. As far as fit, I can't agree that a good frontline is a bad fit for a guard.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
activeverb
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470

PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:44 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
governator wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:

I guarantee that if OKC had a fire sale, there would be a line out the door for a lot of their guys. The notion that he's playing with scrubs is outright insulting.


Exactly. Morey would trade everyone on the roster, besides Harden, for either of Adams, Kanter or Oladipo.


OKC has good players but Rockets has good players too and Rockets players fit better than OKC. Clint Capela, Ryan Anderson, Eric Gordon, Ariza, Patrick Beverly are just as good as OKC's players.
I'll give Rockets FO more points compare to OKC's in assembling the team but for MVP, Westbrook over Harden


Those players aren't just as good. Neither one is as good as Kanter, Adams or Oladipo.

Neither team has scrubs. As far as fit, I can't agree that a good frontline is a bad fit for a guard.



I've never seen any indication that quality of teammates, pro or con, has any influence on how actual MVP voters cast their ballots. MVP voters don't seem to subtract points for being surrounded by Hall of Famers or add points for playing with scrubs.

It's probably too subjective, and hard to factor in. Look at this thread: people could argue forever whether Westbrook or Harden have better teammates who "fit" better
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
governator
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 24996

PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:59 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
governator wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:

I guarantee that if OKC had a fire sale, there would be a line out the door for a lot of their guys. The notion that he's playing with scrubs is outright insulting.


Exactly. Morey would trade everyone on the roster, besides Harden, for either of Adams, Kanter or Oladipo.


OKC has good players but Rockets has good players too and Rockets players fit better than OKC. Clint Capela, Ryan Anderson, Eric Gordon, Ariza, Patrick Beverly are just as good as OKC's players.
I'll give Rockets FO more points compare to OKC's in assembling the team but for MVP, Westbrook over Harden


Those players aren't just as good. Neither one is as good as Kanter, Adams or Oladipo.

Neither team has scrubs. As far as fit, I can't agree that a good frontline is a bad fit for a guard.



I've never seen any indication that quality of teammates, pro or con, has any influence on how actual MVP voters cast their ballots. MVP voters don't seem to subtract points for being surrounded by Hall of Famers or add points for playing with scrubs.

It's probably too subjective, and hard to factor in. Look at this thread: people could argue forever whether Westbrook or Harden have better teammates who "fit" better


'Fit' better... I think i was the only one who brought that up. Subjectively, having better 3 point shooters in the team opens up the floor (harder to be doubled) and should allow more assist number for Harden... since we're arguing forever
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
CandyCanes
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 24 Dec 2007
Posts: 35750
Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:04 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:

I guarantee that if OKC had a fire sale, there would be a line out the door for a lot of their guys. The notion that he's playing with scrubs is outright insulting.


Exactly. Morey would trade everyone on the roster, besides Harden, for either of Adams, Kanter or Oladipo.


Adams is a role player. Oladipo is a 16 PPG scorer. Kanter is a sixth man type. The rest of that team sucks.

Westbrook does not have a good supporting cast.
_________________
Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
andree
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 05 May 2014
Posts: 519

PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:29 pm    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:

I guarantee that if OKC had a fire sale, there would be a line out the door for a lot of their guys. The notion that he's playing with scrubs is outright insulting.


Exactly. Morey would trade everyone on the roster, besides Harden, for either of Adams, Kanter or Oladipo.


Really Dreamshake!
Do you really believe if Presti would offer Oladipo and Kanter for Gordon and Anderson, Morey will agree?
Would be a no brainer for OKC!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Mike D
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 921

PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:35 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:

I guarantee that if OKC had a fire sale, there would be a line out the door for a lot of their guys. The notion that he's playing with scrubs is outright insulting.


Exactly. Morey would trade everyone on the roster, besides Harden, for either of Adams, Kanter or Oladipo.


Adams is a role player. Oladipo is a 16 PPG scorer. Kanter is a sixth man type. The rest of that team sucks.

Westbrook does not have a good supporting cast.


I'm inclined to agree with you, CC.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Dreamshake
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13709

PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:08 pm    Post subject:

andree wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:

I guarantee that if OKC had a fire sale, there would be a line out the door for a lot of their guys. The notion that he's playing with scrubs is outright insulting.


Exactly. Morey would trade everyone on the roster, besides Harden, for either of Adams, Kanter or Oladipo.


Really Dreamshake!
Do you really believe if Presti would offer Oladipo and Kanter for Gordon and Anderson, Morey will agree?
Would be a no brainer for OKC!


In a heartbeat. You do realize Oladipo is having a better offensive season than Gordon (even shooting better on 3's), and he actually plays defense. And please find me one preseason ranking that had Anderson over Kanter.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Serenityy
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 586

PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:27 pm    Post subject:

Both of these guys are putting up crazy stats, but I think Harden should edge out WB based on efficiency and team performance.

I realize the team performance argument can be a little silly sometimes, but I think it should be highlighted that its pretty important here. Its not like Harden is playing alongside a number of all stars, and in fact, in preseason, many people said OKC had the better overall squad. Just because Harden has more wins with Houston than WB does with OKC, doesn't therefore mean WB is playing with significantly less talent. It could just mean (which I think it does) that Harden is getting the most out of what his around him (coach included). This shouldn't hurt a players chances.

Again, I don't always think the team performance argument is a valid one, but here I think it should be noted.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> General Basketball Discussion All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
Page 3 of 8
Jump to:  

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum






Graphics by uberzev
© 1995-2018 LakersGround.net. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy. Terms of Use.
LakersGround is an unofficial news source serving the fan community since 1995.
We are in no way associated with the Los Angeles Lakers or the National Basketball Association.


Powered by phpBB