You guys made some good points, and, Dreamshake, you are correct about Gordon not being an all-star. I remembered him from that weekend, but he was not in the actual game. I still think Westbrook deserves the MVP this year, but I understand the argument for Harden better now.
Rebounders and paint protectors? Who would they be? Clearly not Capela and Nene. Now, Westbrook does have those. He has one of the best frontlines in basketball. Usually a solid frontline is a positive for a guard, but we are all supposed to believe his teammates are scrubs this year.
...
They got to the WCF's....
Did you just call Domantas Sabonis, who started 64 games, part of "one of the best frontlines in basketball?" I just have to point that out. By what stretch have you concluded OKC one of the best frontcourts? Who makes up this dominant frontcourt? The only reason OKC has strong rebound rates is RW is putting up absurd RPG numbers.
-Steven Adams averages 7.6 RPG, second highest to RW. This is not staggering by anyone's assessment.
-Taj Gibson has been on the team for what, 15 games? Started 10?
-Enes Kanter is a defensive liability.
---
To insinuate that this team is even similar to the same one that got to the WCF last year is a farce. That team had chemistry, continuity built over years, more experience, and was exceedingly better.
---
Just because someone else got some facts wrong doesn't mean this should devolve into make believe arguments.
You guys made some good points, and, Dreamshake, you are correct about Gordon not being an all-star. I remembered him from that weekend, but he was not in the actual game. I still think Westbrook deserves the MVP this year, but I understand the argument for Harden better now.
I respect your opinion. In part, my own opinion is shaped by my view that Westbrook is a knucklehead. Still, I wouldn't be offended if Westbrook won the MVP. He's had a great season.
Just sick. Brought the team back from 21. Hit a 35ft 3 to tie it up. 50+ pt triple double.
Ridiculous finish! He seemed to have put the triple double to the side in order to get aggressive and push for the win, and the basketball gods reward him with an extra 5 minutes and a win.
Did you just call Domantas Sabonis, who started 64 games, part of "one of the best frontlines in basketball?"]
I was referring to Adams and Kanter. And I said one of the best, not the best. Here is SI's preseason player rankings. Adams was ranked #40 and Kanter (who is soft on D like you noted but great offensively) was #80.
Pull any preseason player rankings and you will see both up there. These guys didn't morph into scrubs just because Westbrook decided to be on pace for the most shots in league history and because they willingly let him grab rebounds.
Mike D wrote:
The only reason OKC has strong rebound rates is RW is putting up absurd RPG numbers.
His bigs are voluntarily giving up boards so he can chase triple doubles.
Mike D wrote:
To insinuate that this team is even similar to the same one that got to the WCF last year is a farce. That team had chemistry, continuity built over years, more experience, and was exceedingly better.
Maybe you are confusing me with someone else? All I've noted is Westbrook isn't playing with scrubs. His team has talent. Not championship talent but not scrubs.
Just sick. Brought the team back from 21. Hit a 35ft 3 to tie it up. 50+ pt triple double.
Impressive. Not quite as impressive as Harden's 53/16/17 game (on 26 shots), or his 51/13/13 game (on 28 shots), but still impressive (he took 40 shots tonight).
Tons of players have played the game and few have averaged a trip dub. Harden is deserving no dount, but WB gets my vote even though I dont like him
Harden is having a better statistical season than Westbrook. He's 2 rebounds behind him but much more efficient. His numbers are bananas too.
Ton's of players haven't had the goal of averaging a triple double while being on a team where it was a team goal as well. Ton's of players aren't going to be on teams where they can shoot more than anyone else in league history, or where one guy gets to dominate the ball (Harden benefits from that as well), or well teammates come off boards so you can get them. Props to Westbrook for doing it (one of the few capable IMO), but averaging one really hasn't been a focus for anyone else to this extent. I'm sure Magic could have done it if the team allowed him to stat chase like OKC is doing.
Rebounders and paint protectors? Who would they be? Clearly not Capela and Nene. Now, Westbrook does have those. He has one of the best frontlines in basketball. Usually a solid frontline is a positive for a guard, but we are all supposed to believe his teammates are scrubs this year.
...
They got to the WCF's....
Did you just call Domantas Sabonis, who started 64 games, part of "one of the best frontlines in basketball?" I just have to point that out. By what stretch have you concluded OKC one of the best frontcourts? Who makes up this dominant frontcourt? The only reason OKC has strong rebound rates is RW is putting up absurd RPG numbers.
-Steven Adams averages 7.6 RPG, second highest to RW. This is not staggering by anyone's assessment.
-Taj Gibson has been on the team for what, 15 games? Started 10?
-Enes Kanter is a defensive liability.
---
To insinuate that this team is even similar to the same one that got to the WCF last year is a farce. That team had chemistry, continuity built over years, more experience, and was exceedingly better.
---
Just because someone else got some facts wrong doesn't mean this should devolve into make believe arguments.
The bigs are actively boxing out to allow Russ' the boards. Even Donovan has mentioned it. It's by design since it allows Russ to push the ball up...and that's ok.
With that said, different team/chemistry or whatnot, the guys on OKC are NOT scrubs. I've heard it repeatedly (not by you) compared with Kobe's teammates in his 2005-2006 campaign which astounding. Smush...1 contract, out of the league. All our key bench guys like Farmar/Sasha etc..bam, in and out of hte league after leaving the Lakers while in their GD prime. Mihm...nuff said...glass ankles. Brian Cook...really? Luke Walton?!
I guarantee that if OKC had a fire sale, there would be a line out the door for a lot of their guys. The notion that he's playing with scrubs is outright insulting.
With all that said, I would absolutely killl to have Westbrook. _________________ KOBE
I guarantee that if OKC had a fire sale, there would be a line out the door for a lot of their guys. The notion that he's playing with scrubs is outright insulting.
Exactly. Morey would trade everyone on the roster, besides Harden, for either of Adams, Kanter or Oladipo.
I guarantee that if OKC had a fire sale, there would be a line out the door for a lot of their guys. The notion that he's playing with scrubs is outright insulting.
Exactly. Morey would trade everyone on the roster, besides Harden, for either of Adams, Kanter or Oladipo.
OKC has good players but Rockets has good players too and Rockets players fit better than OKC. Clint Capela, Ryan Anderson, Eric Gordon, Ariza, Patrick Beverly are just as good as OKC's players.
I'll give Rockets FO more points compare to OKC's in assembling the team but for MVP, Westbrook over Harden
I guarantee that if OKC had a fire sale, there would be a line out the door for a lot of their guys. The notion that he's playing with scrubs is outright insulting.
Exactly. Morey would trade everyone on the roster, besides Harden, for either of Adams, Kanter or Oladipo.
OKC has good players but Rockets has good players too and Rockets players fit better than OKC. Clint Capela, Ryan Anderson, Eric Gordon, Ariza, Patrick Beverly are just as good as OKC's players.
I'll give Rockets FO more points compare to OKC's in assembling the team but for MVP, Westbrook over Harden
Those players aren't just as good. Neither one is as good as Kanter, Adams or Oladipo.
Neither team has scrubs. As far as fit, I can't agree that a good frontline is a bad fit for a guard.
I guarantee that if OKC had a fire sale, there would be a line out the door for a lot of their guys. The notion that he's playing with scrubs is outright insulting.
Exactly. Morey would trade everyone on the roster, besides Harden, for either of Adams, Kanter or Oladipo.
OKC has good players but Rockets has good players too and Rockets players fit better than OKC. Clint Capela, Ryan Anderson, Eric Gordon, Ariza, Patrick Beverly are just as good as OKC's players.
I'll give Rockets FO more points compare to OKC's in assembling the team but for MVP, Westbrook over Harden
Those players aren't just as good. Neither one is as good as Kanter, Adams or Oladipo.
Neither team has scrubs. As far as fit, I can't agree that a good frontline is a bad fit for a guard.
I've never seen any indication that quality of teammates, pro or con, has any influence on how actual MVP voters cast their ballots. MVP voters don't seem to subtract points for being surrounded by Hall of Famers or add points for playing with scrubs.
It's probably too subjective, and hard to factor in. Look at this thread: people could argue forever whether Westbrook or Harden have better teammates who "fit" better
I guarantee that if OKC had a fire sale, there would be a line out the door for a lot of their guys. The notion that he's playing with scrubs is outright insulting.
Exactly. Morey would trade everyone on the roster, besides Harden, for either of Adams, Kanter or Oladipo.
OKC has good players but Rockets has good players too and Rockets players fit better than OKC. Clint Capela, Ryan Anderson, Eric Gordon, Ariza, Patrick Beverly are just as good as OKC's players.
I'll give Rockets FO more points compare to OKC's in assembling the team but for MVP, Westbrook over Harden
Those players aren't just as good. Neither one is as good as Kanter, Adams or Oladipo.
Neither team has scrubs. As far as fit, I can't agree that a good frontline is a bad fit for a guard.
I've never seen any indication that quality of teammates, pro or con, has any influence on how actual MVP voters cast their ballots. MVP voters don't seem to subtract points for being surrounded by Hall of Famers or add points for playing with scrubs.
It's probably too subjective, and hard to factor in. Look at this thread: people could argue forever whether Westbrook or Harden have better teammates who "fit" better
'Fit' better... I think i was the only one who brought that up. Subjectively, having better 3 point shooters in the team opens up the floor (harder to be doubled) and should allow more assist number for Harden... since we're arguing forever
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35750 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:04 am Post subject:
Dreamshake wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
I guarantee that if OKC had a fire sale, there would be a line out the door for a lot of their guys. The notion that he's playing with scrubs is outright insulting.
Exactly. Morey would trade everyone on the roster, besides Harden, for either of Adams, Kanter or Oladipo.
Adams is a role player. Oladipo is a 16 PPG scorer. Kanter is a sixth man type. The rest of that team sucks.
Westbrook does not have a good supporting cast. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
I guarantee that if OKC had a fire sale, there would be a line out the door for a lot of their guys. The notion that he's playing with scrubs is outright insulting.
Exactly. Morey would trade everyone on the roster, besides Harden, for either of Adams, Kanter or Oladipo.
Really Dreamshake!
Do you really believe if Presti would offer Oladipo and Kanter for Gordon and Anderson, Morey will agree?
Would be a no brainer for OKC!
I guarantee that if OKC had a fire sale, there would be a line out the door for a lot of their guys. The notion that he's playing with scrubs is outright insulting.
Exactly. Morey would trade everyone on the roster, besides Harden, for either of Adams, Kanter or Oladipo.
Adams is a role player. Oladipo is a 16 PPG scorer. Kanter is a sixth man type. The rest of that team sucks.
I guarantee that if OKC had a fire sale, there would be a line out the door for a lot of their guys. The notion that he's playing with scrubs is outright insulting.
Exactly. Morey would trade everyone on the roster, besides Harden, for either of Adams, Kanter or Oladipo.
Really Dreamshake!
Do you really believe if Presti would offer Oladipo and Kanter for Gordon and Anderson, Morey will agree?
Would be a no brainer for OKC!
In a heartbeat. You do realize Oladipo is having a better offensive season than Gordon (even shooting better on 3's), and he actually plays defense. And please find me one preseason ranking that had Anderson over Kanter.
Both of these guys are putting up crazy stats, but I think Harden should edge out WB based on efficiency and team performance.
I realize the team performance argument can be a little silly sometimes, but I think it should be highlighted that its pretty important here. Its not like Harden is playing alongside a number of all stars, and in fact, in preseason, many people said OKC had the better overall squad. Just because Harden has more wins with Houston than WB does with OKC, doesn't therefore mean WB is playing with significantly less talent. It could just mean (which I think it does) that Harden is getting the most out of what his around him (coach included). This shouldn't hurt a players chances.
Again, I don't always think the team performance argument is a valid one, but here I think it should be noted.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum