Reasonable expectations to get back to the finals?
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Reasonable expectations to get back to the finals?
1-2 years
6%
 6%  [ 3 ]
3-4 years
17%
 17%  [ 8 ]
5-6 years
38%
 38%  [ 18 ]
7-8 years
10%
 10%  [ 5 ]
9-10 years
12%
 12%  [ 6 ]
11+ years
14%
 14%  [ 7 ]
Total Votes : 47

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nash
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:51 am    Post subject:

defense wrote:
How about a more realistic question like when will we win 40 games?


this
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32
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:03 pm    Post subject:

defense wrote:
How about a more realistic question like when will we win 40 games?


I like my poll.
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Last edited by 32 on Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:04 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Runway8
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:04 pm    Post subject:

If Shaq didn't walk here in the summer of 96 pursuing a rap and acting career, we could be looking at a 29 year drought. MJ and the Bulls were such a fabric of the NBA, right? We're close to 20 yrs now without them. Why are we any more special than the Bulls?

There is no exact science to this, only luck and circumstances that hooks you up with once in a lifetime generation players. The Derek Roses and the Jimmy Butlers of the world isn't going to win you titles, neither will the Paul Georges and the Russell Westbrooks. Otherwise, you wouldn't be hearing their names as possible targets because they'd be popping champagne in their cities and considered untouchables.

What has been the common denominator for over 30 years now? Hall of Fame top 10 type players! Not top ten in the game of their time, but these guys are arguably top 10 ALL TIME.

Bird, Magic, Isiah/Dumars, Hakeem, Jordan, Shaq, Duncan, 2004 Pistons*, Wade, Kobe, Lebron, 2011 Dirk*, Curry/Klay.

These are all the names that have been involved in championships since 1984. I put an asterisk next to 2004 Pistons and 2011 Mavs because I think those are the only two times in the past 30+ years which a team that wasn't anything special won the title due to the stars aligning. But you can argue Dirk is up there top 15 or top 20. Isiah and Dumars are not top 10, but they had a very unique team with the Bad Boys defending the paint. And Isiah is especially unique. He was the bar for all the little guys who wanted to lead a team to a title. Isiah was the best little point guard in the past 30 yrs. That's why Isiah squeezed out 2 titles during Magic/Bird/Jordan era. You could say Curry supplanted him, but you could argue Curry created a brand-new category all to himself.

We've gone from Magic to Shaq to Kobe. Any team we field now, you can only hope will be competitive. Going back to the finals? You may not see it again in a loooooooong time. You need that special player. And if you trade for PG13 or Butler, you're looking at an even loooooooooooooongeeeeeer time. That's why I poo poo those names all the time. You need to swing for the fences, go for broke. These safe guys will only lead you to the playoffs, that's it. Don't trade away something that could be the next great one. You need to keep searching for the next great one. I don't care about winning 50 games for 4 straight seasons, then having to rebuild again. That's what every other team in the NBA does. They have these "safe" all-stars that give them 50 wins, but win no titles, they grow old, then they rebuild again. I rather go for broke like we've been doing and load up with high ceiling prospects. I'm fine what we've been doing. Either road is going to take a long time. But this "going for broke" road we've been doing gives you the better chance of getting that once in a lifetime player in the draft.
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Fortysixn2
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:54 pm    Post subject:

Runway8 wrote:
If Shaq didn't walk here in the summer of 96 pursuing a rap and acting career, we could be looking at a 29 year drought. MJ and the Bulls were such a fabric of the NBA, right? We're close to 20 yrs now without them. Why are we any more special than the Bulls?

There is no exact science to this, only luck and circumstances that hooks you up with once in a lifetime generation players. The Derek Roses and the Jimmy Butlers of the world isn't going to win you titles, neither will the Paul Georges and the Russell Westbrooks. Otherwise, you wouldn't be hearing their names as possible targets because they'd be popping champagne in their cities and considered untouchables.

What has been the common denominator for over 30 years now? Hall of Fame top 10 type players! Not top ten in the game of their time, but these guys are arguably top 10 ALL TIME.

Bird, Magic, Isiah/Dumars, Hakeem, Jordan, Shaq, Duncan, 2004 Pistons*, Wade, Kobe, Lebron, 2011 Dirk*, Curry/Klay.

These are all the names that have been involved in championships since 1984. I put an asterisk next to 2004 Pistons and 2011 Mavs because I think those are the only two times in the past 30+ years which a team that wasn't anything special won the title due to the stars aligning. But you can argue Dirk is up there top 15 or top 20. Isiah and Dumars are not top 10, but they had a very unique team with the Bad Boys defending the paint. And Isiah is especially unique. He was the bar for all the little guys who wanted to lead a team to a title. Isiah was the best little point guard in the past 30 yrs. That's why Isiah squeezed out 2 titles during Magic/Bird/Jordan era. You could say Curry supplanted him, but you could argue Curry created a brand-new category all to himself.

We've gone from Magic to Shaq to Kobe. Any team we field now, you can only hope will be competitive. Going back to the finals? You may not see it again in a loooooooong time. You need that special player. And if you trade for PG13 or Butler, you're looking at an even loooooooooooooongeeeeeer time. That's why I poo poo those names all the time. You need to swing for the fences, go for broke. These safe guys will only lead you to the playoffs, that's it. Don't trade away something that could be the next great one. You need to keep searching for the next great one. I don't care about winning 50 games for 4 straight seasons, then having to rebuild again. That's what every other team in the NBA does. They have these "safe" all-stars that give them 50 wins, but win no titles, they grow old, then they rebuild again. I rather go for broke like we've been doing and load up with high ceiling prospects. I'm fine what we've been doing. Either road is going to take a long time. But this "going for broke" road we've been doing gives you the better chance of getting that once in a lifetime player in the draft.


Good read. The only argument I'd make against that is that we got Shaq and Kareem and Pau even, when we already had a superstar here. Except for Ingram, who's still too young for anybody to tell, I can guarantee you that we don't have "the next great one" on our team right now. It's definitely not Randle, Zubac, Clarkson or Nance and I guess there is a .01% chance it's DLO, but judging by what we've seen so far an all star appearance seems light years away.

If you are suggesting we tank and sign nobody until we get "the one" that's a strategy, but unless you are Lebron....being the #1 pick who is one of the greatest of all time is fairly rare. You are just as likely to find "the one" at 4 or 8 or 11...it's a total crap shoot.

I will say this, Laker fans are spoiled and we won't go lottery fishing for 15 years hoping to draft the next Lebron. Right now I'd settle for a 41-41 season with a single young guy on the squad who could possibly be an allstar down the road....we're desperate man.
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70sdude
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:24 pm    Post subject:

After three more seasons from today, there begins a very reasonable start to a three year hence window of opportunity to make the Finals. That's years 4, 5 and 6.
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dcarter4kobe
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:50 pm    Post subject:

My perfect case scenario

1. Keep top 3 pick/Punt cap space
2. Stretch Mozgov/Deng in 2018. Trade Randle/JC for future draft picks
3. Sign both PG13/DMC

DMC/Zubac
Nance
Ingram/28th pick
PG13/Fultz,Ball,J.Jackson
DLO

Looks like a championship contender to me
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tox
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:13 pm    Post subject:

dcarter4kobe wrote:
My perfect case scenario

1. Keep top 3 pick/Punt cap space
2. Stretch Mozgov/Deng in 2018. Trade Randle/JC for future draft picks
3. Sign both PG13/DMC

DMC/Zubac
Nance
Ingram/28th pick
PG13/Fultz,Ball,J.Jackson
DLO

Looks like a championship contender to me


Step 3.5 is to convince PG13 to play the 4
Step 3.75 is to get Cousins to be 75% as good as his stats suggest
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:27 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
My perfect case scenario

1. Keep top 3 pick/Punt cap space
2. Stretch Mozgov/Deng in 2018. Trade Randle/JC for future draft picks
3. Sign both PG13/DMC

DMC/Zubac
Nance
Ingram/28th pick
PG13/Fultz,Ball,J.Jackson
DLO

Looks like a championship contender to me


Step 3.5 is to convince PG13 to play the 4
Step 3.75 is to get Cousins to be 75% as good as his stats suggest


In the scenario above, either PG13 or Ingram would have to spend time at the 4. Would be pretty amazing to have 2 starter level players coming off the bench in Zu & a top 3 pick. Depth. Add the Rockets 1st+Denver 2018 2nd+2018 room exception (4.3M)+Draft picks we get for JC/Randle.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:36 pm    Post subject:

Remember the summer Kobe demanded a trade, then a season later we were in the finals? Good times breh
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:36 pm    Post subject:

Gellollo wrote:
Remember the summer Kobe demanded a trade, then a season later we were in the finals? Good times breh
the joys of having Kobe on your team
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CalisFinest
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:40 pm    Post subject:

Getting to the Finals is hard as hell. The Thunder had KD, Russ, Harden and Ibaka yet only had one finals appearance.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:32 am    Post subject:

Fortysixn2 wrote:

In 5 years

PG - DLO 26 Year old entering his prime - Borderline All Star
SG - George 31 Middle/End of Prime - All Star, Team Alpha
SF - Ingram 24 About to hit prime - All Star, Heir Apparent to George
PF - Randle 27 In Prime - Average NBA PF who rebounds but doesn't defend
C - Zubac 24 Abount to hit prime - Marc Gasol Light, great all around center



Pretty good line-up, swap out Randle for a PF that can defend and I am in...!
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SGVL1
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:45 am    Post subject:

Let's not skip steps or get ahead of ourselves. I've often asked myself this year when will they just be competitive every night, especially on defense.. then we can worry about that 30 win mark. Then maybe be a .500 team. So far as finals go, I don't have a prediction other than it will probably be in the mid to late 2020's if at all
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:48 am    Post subject:

Let's start with not being bad enough to have a greater chance of getting a top 3 pick than not.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:11 am    Post subject:

CalisFinest wrote:
Getting to the Finals is hard as hell. The Thunder had KD, Russ, Harden and Ibaka yet only had one finals appearance.


To be fair, they had a Westbrook and Durant injured in the playoffs or I think they would have went to the finals again.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:17 am    Post subject:

I think that the team is about 10 years from another finals. Playoffs in like 6 or 7 years from now.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:28 am    Post subject:

Depends on FO moves/luck.

If we keep our young core, I say never in their peak. If we trade our young core and make good/lucky decisions, who knows.

All the bottom feeder teams are stack with lotto picks as well. SO, you dudes really need to stop thinking that the Lakers are the only team that get better in the offseason
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:38 pm    Post subject:

It's hard to guess the years because their next finals trip may not contain any of the guys they have now. The Lakers still have a unique advantage when it comes to free agency. Even if they go 0-82, they're in the conversation for the max players. I don't think any other team can say that.

Because of this, things can around quickly. Their top 3 pick this year could be a franchise changer or they could get a top player in free agency or a trade. Or they could get a top player like PG in a trade and then get another top guy that wants to join him.

If they were a small market team with their current roster and draft situation, I'd say there is no championship in sight but with the Lakers brand, it's never impossible.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:02 pm    Post subject:

What's sort of insane is that Durant AND Westbrook were not enough to win a championship over the course of nine seasons.

We have neither a Westbrook nor a Durant level player.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Reasonable expectations to get back to the finals?

32 wrote:
As you all know the Lakers have been to the finals 31 times. They don't always win but they get there and when you get there you have a shot at a title. Expectations for this franchise are to get to the finals and win. It's been seven years now since the last title and the last four we have missed the playoffs. Jim and Mitch are no longer in charge but they left Magic and Rob with somewhat of a mess that could take some time to sort out. Considering where the team is now what is your reasonable expectation for the new management team to get the Lakers back the finals?


At the moment, I have no expectations to get back to the finals. I don't see how anyone can make any realistic guess about when/if Magic and Rob will make moves that will position us to get back to the finals. Seems like any guess is pulled out of thin air.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:41 pm    Post subject:

Best case in three years. Cause I still believe in the laker brand and mystique.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:27 pm    Post subject:

Runway8 wrote:
If Shaq didn't walk here in the summer of 96 pursuing a rap and acting career, we could be looking at a 29 year drought. MJ and the Bulls were such a fabric of the NBA, right? We're close to 20 yrs now without them. Why are we any more special than the Bulls?

There is no exact science to this, only luck and circumstances that hooks you up with once in a lifetime generation players. The Derek Roses and the Jimmy Butlers of the world isn't going to win you titles, neither will the Paul Georges and the Russell Westbrooks. Otherwise, you wouldn't be hearing their names as possible targets because they'd be popping champagne in their cities and considered untouchables.

What has been the common denominator for over 30 years now? Hall of Fame top 10 type players! Not top ten in the game of their time, but these guys are arguably top 10 ALL TIME.

Bird, Magic, Isiah/Dumars, Hakeem, Jordan, Shaq, Duncan, 2004 Pistons*, Wade, Kobe, Lebron, 2011 Dirk*, Curry/Klay.

These are all the names that have been involved in championships since 1984. I put an asterisk next to 2004 Pistons and 2011 Mavs because I think those are the only two times in the past 30+ years which a team that wasn't anything special won the title due to the stars aligning. But you can argue Dirk is up there top 15 or top 20. Isiah and Dumars are not top 10, but they had a very unique team with the Bad Boys defending the paint. And Isiah is especially unique. He was the bar for all the little guys who wanted to lead a team to a title. Isiah was the best little point guard in the past 30 yrs. That's why Isiah squeezed out 2 titles during Magic/Bird/Jordan era. You could say Curry supplanted him, but you could argue Curry created a brand-new category all to himself.

We've gone from Magic to Shaq to Kobe. Any team we field now, you can only hope will be competitive. Going back to the finals? You may not see it again in a loooooooong time. You need that special player. And if you trade for PG13 or Butler, you're looking at an even loooooooooooooongeeeeeer time. That's why I poo poo those names all the time. You need to swing for the fences, go for broke. These safe guys will only lead you to the playoffs, that's it. Don't trade away something that could be the next great one. You need to keep searching for the next great one. I don't care about winning 50 games for 4 straight seasons, then having to rebuild again. That's what every other team in the NBA does. They have these "safe" all-stars that give them 50 wins, but win no titles, they grow old, then they rebuild again. I rather go for broke like we've been doing and load up with high ceiling prospects. I'm fine what we've been doing. Either road is going to take a long time. But this "going for broke" road we've been doing gives you the better chance of getting that once in a lifetime player in the draft.


Well said man I tend to agree.
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LakerLogic
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:31 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
What's sort of insane is that Durant AND Westbrook were not enough to win a championship over the course of nine seasons.

We have neither a Westbrook nor a Durant level player.


Some players don't fit well together despite the talent. Furthermore, Westbrook's style of play is not necessarily winning basketball despite the good stats.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:15 am    Post subject:

LakerLogic wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
What's sort of insane is that Durant AND Westbrook were not enough to win a championship over the course of nine seasons.

We have neither a Westbrook nor a Durant level player.


Some players don't fit well together despite the talent. Furthermore, Westbrook's style of play is not necessarily winning basketball despite the good stats.


Eight seasons together, actually, and three of those were when either Westbrook or Durant missed significant time due to injury. We older Laker fans are experienced when it comes to precedent in seeing a club fall continually short of a championship. Sometimes it's not about fitting together poorly; often teams go lacking quality at a key position. I think that's what stung OKC, all the talent clumped among wings and not enough side players wanting to help-defend enough. They made the Finals once.

CASE STUDY: Jerry/Elgin
Played ten seasons together full-time, which included seven series losses in the NBA Finals. They lacked an adequate center to counter Bill Ruseell in the early years (having Krebs, Ellis, Counts). They obtained Chamberlain, whose famous bad fit with Elgin Baylor (position-wise, personally, stylistically) hamstrung the club in its championship search thereafter, until Elgin quit the game. Too bad we didn't have Sharman coaching earlier with Wilt; Van Breda Kolff was an idiot, made even more volatile by Wilt's intranscient nature.
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