Does anyone think David Stern is the main reason why Mitch and Jim got fired?
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge Reply to topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
999
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 20265

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:50 am    Post subject: Does anyone think David Stern is the main reason why Mitch and Jim got fired?

I mean we never recovered from that veto trade. Had it gone through the clippers you see today would be our laker team.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Gatekeeper
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 11 Jan 2012
Posts: 5103
Location: Southland Native

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:58 am    Post subject:

It was a major setback for us as a franchise, but not the reason for their firings. Mostly it had to do with the lack of communication between the basketball ops camp and business ops. Jim and Mitch demonstrated this just this week before the firings when they tried to trade for DeMarcus without telling Jeanie. It's a recurring theme, Jim being impetuous and doing things his own way often to disastrous results.
_________________
Character
Manchester United | Greatest European Moments
Fabric of United - Our Belief
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
LakerFan1977
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 581
Location: Southern California

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:32 am    Post subject:

LOCK
_________________
Hambuger! The cornerstone of any nutritious breakfast
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
The Lebrons
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Posts: 4778

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:42 am    Post subject:

No, although that was the start of the downturn. I think the Deng/Mozgov signings and the fact that we still have the 2nd worst record is the main reason (and the fact they thought they would make a difference).

Other than that, I think they drafted well (Magic surely would have taken Okafor over Russell) and it was obvious we needed to tank. I guess it depends whether you think Magic/Pelinka could have signed Lebron/Melo/Aldridge/Durant, etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
noahp45
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 6572
Location: Oceanside Ca

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:44 am    Post subject:

Nope
I think it was the high school expectations from the fans that got them fired.

Mitch and Jim made moves they just didn't work out.

At least they swung
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Stumpy25
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 27 Oct 2016
Posts: 1314

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:52 am    Post subject: Re: Does anyone think David Stern is the main reason why Mitch and Jim got fired?

999 wrote:
I mean we never recovered from that veto trade. Had it gone through the clippers you see today would be our laker team.


I think Jim is the reason for Jim and Mitch getting fired. Phil Jackson predicted what would happen with Stern in that off season, and they had no plan B prepared. After that Mitch simply followed his boss Jim who took him into quicksand.
I predicted to many friends that this would happen 4 years ago when they didn't hire Phil. I knew Jim was a failure from the beginning. Either Jeanne fired her brother and replace him with a name person of high basketball status or she would eventually have to sell the team.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
KobeDunk
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 26849

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:02 am    Post subject:

we would have had a potential lineup of :

Howard (Bynum trade)
D.West (free agent)
Metta
Kobe
CP3 (VETOed Trade)

I would think this could have made a major difference in the history of the franchise and NBA since 2011
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Dr. Funkbot
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 24 Sep 2001
Posts: 8188
Location: Eagle Rock

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:03 am    Post subject:

Yeah Jim is has and will always be a screw up. I totally respect Mitch, but I think Jim was the monkey wrench. Jim should be been shown the door a while back, but the Moz/Deng deals finally made Jeanie move.
_________________
R.I.P. Doc Buss
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Yumyumcha
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 751

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:11 am    Post subject:

No, Jim and Mitch put themselves in this situation. I actually don't dislike Jim Buss like some of you guys did having seen what McCourt did to the Dodgers and how Dolan and Ranadive run the Knicks and Kings respectively. Mitch and his scouting department is great but neither he nor Buss have much charisma or communicate well which hurts them in trade and free agent pick ups. I'm not sure how Jim could fix that problem but he stood by Mitch and consequently, Jeannie did what she had to do to move forward. So if the Lakers can keep Ryan West and the scouting dept. intact, hire Perlinka for current personnel and cba matters, than Magic can just flash his smile and sell the team to free agents, this might all work out.

Full disclosure: With the exception of B. Scott, I am always optimistic about the state of Laker affairs.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
fiendishoc
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 8488
Location: The (real) short corner

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:11 am    Post subject:

The veto was the start of it but not the most direct cause. It set off the chain of events that lead to the family meeting in April 2014 in the middle of their first losing season in a while.

Jeanie was still upset that they passed over Phil as coach. She wanted to bring in Phil into the FO. Jim wanted to extend Mitch. Jim managed to talk her into the Mitch extension with an argument that FO instability would prevent them from signing major free agents. From that point, the criteria became can Jim and Mitch bring in a star player rather than can Jim and Mitch do a reasonable job as GM given the circumstances.

The other item bargained for was that Jim willingly put himself on a timeline in exchange for keeping Phil Jackson out of the FO.

He was neither able to bring the team into contention or sign a star, so he's out. (Though it seemed like he thought that he had until the 2017 offseason to accomplish the latter, given the way the Mozdeng contracts were structured).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144432
Location: The Gold Coast

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:12 am    Post subject:

Jeanie is, and will always be, the reason Mitch got fired. Jim never got fired, he is still the same stakeholder as Jeanie is.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
LakersRGolden
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 7909
Location: Lake Forest

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:24 am    Post subject:

The Veto plus the KFT. Mitch and Jim obviously had no option but the swing for a home run for Kobe. The took a good hack at it, hit it out of the park and Stern brought it back over the fence.

We're now paying the bill to try to get Kobe one more ring, and everyone is B&M'ing. We knew it was coming. We knew what it would be like.

Now that most of the hard part is over, Jeanie has stepped in to "lead us to glory" by following the plan already in place. I just hope enough of the team is still in place to draft as well as we have and that Magic does sweet talk a FA into signing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
LakersNewEra
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 16 Apr 2014
Posts: 1526
Location: Vancouver BC

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:27 am    Post subject:

Ummm no. They have been stupidly incompetent for a long long time.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Runway8
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 22734
Location: La Jolla, San Diego

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:43 am    Post subject:

Jerry Buss bought the Lakers in 1979 and got Magic Johnson off the bat, literally with the flip of a coin. The rest is history. Magic Johnson single-handedly ascended the reputations of the two Jerrys. Literally, not figuratively, another flip of the coin, got them James Worthy in 82. And the Lakers couldn't have gone wrong with either Worthy or Dominique Wilkins. Magic would have worked well with either of them. The two Jerrys were damn lucky and got 5 titles out of Showtime. But West didn't do anything with the Showtime assets. Magic got hiv, and the others retired or walked away. If LG existed back then, he would be skeward, I know it because I skeward him back then, pissing and ranting to my friends. It would be 12 years till the Lakers win another title because some big guy in Orlando had a thing for rapping and hollywood. West saw the talent in Kobe, I'll give him that. Still it was a no brainer, secondary move. The goal was to clear cap-space for the grand prize in O'neal. Kobe was low risk, high reward. But the lesson I learn today about my emotions back then is that you never know what you're asking for. If West had done everything I wanted, rebuilding the Lakers quickly by trading Worthy, Scott, Ac, etc. it would have been a completely different history, most likely with no Kobe and no Shaq. The way things played out, it played out nicely. And it didn't play out that way because Jerry West saw the future, it's just timing and luck man.

THERE IS NO SCIENCE to this, and that is why Mitch and Jim got fired. By people who think there is a science to this.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
SuperboyReformed
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Posts: 4083

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:56 am    Post subject:

the veto is like 80% of it. it's a very simple analysis:
pretend we had kobe, cp3 and dwight in 2011-2012. now think about the rest.

the veto was devastating. it literally ruined 30 years of laker momentum in a single switch. and i don't think there is any pro team in any sport that had that kind of momentum.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
activeverb
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:03 am    Post subject: Re: Does anyone think David Stern is the main reason why Mitch and Jim got fired?

999 wrote:
I mean we never recovered from that veto trade. Had it gone through the clippers you see today would be our laker team.


If the trade had gone through, the franchise would have been dramatically different and probably successful enough that they'd still be around.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
gblews
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 300

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:15 am    Post subject: Re: Does anyone think David Stern is the main reason why Mitch and Jim got fired?

999 wrote:
I mean we never recovered from that veto trade. Had it gone through, the clippers you see today would be our laker team.

An unfortunate turn of events for sure, but as others have pointed out, if Mitch and Jim had done other things that had the franchise moving more quickly in the right direction, that non-trade might now be a footnote in Lakers history.

As it is, because M and J have such a bad track record since that event
( with the exception of our recent draft choices), "basketball reasons" still sticks in the craw of almost all Lakers fans. But when you throw on top of it Kevin Ding's report that if Bynum had been included in the deal instead of Pau, it almost surely would have made a difference.

Of course there was also the belly aching from Dan Gilbert and Mark Cuban, but Bynum in the mix might have given Stern enough "cover" to go ahead with the deal. Ding reported that Bynum wasn't included because he was Jim's one claim to his success as a scout. Thank god for Ronnie Lester.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Moses
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 8262
Location: London

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:17 am    Post subject:

It definitely had an impact. When you look back at that moment, it could be argued that it affected so much more

1. CP3 would've saved Kobe's legs, maybe meaning he never gets his achilles injury
2. Would've got something for Pau instead of nothing
3. Probably still would've got Dwight, who arguably wouldn't have left
4. Wouldn't have had to give up those picks for Nash
5. Team would've remained in contention, and arguably would be a bigger draw for free agents over last couple of years.

For me, this was the moment where I lost a little bit of love for the game, it turned my perception of how the league is run, I just think it was morally wrong and a huge conflict of interest, I still can't understand how the league allowed that to happen. For me, that tarnished Sterns reputation beyond repair.

I don't think this is the single reason we are where we are, there were a lot of questionable moves by the team following that, but there is no denying the veto moment as something that had a massive impact.
_________________
Lakers, Chargers, Dodgers, Arsenal FC.

Mamba Forever
The Marathon Continues
Still I Rise
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
lakersken80
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38750

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:18 am    Post subject:

Yes, but they also made a series of bad moves which led to their demise....also Lakers fans don't have a lot of patience for losing. If the Jeannie Buss led team also doesn't experience success then the fans will be calling for their head in the future as well.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
SuperboyReformed
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Posts: 4083

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:40 am    Post subject:

Moses wrote:
It definitely had an impact. When you look back at that moment, it could be argued that it affected so much more

1. CP3 would've saved Kobe's legs, maybe meaning he never gets his achilles injury
2. Would've got something for Pau instead of nothing
3. Probably still would've got Dwight, who arguably wouldn't have left
4. Wouldn't have had to give up those picks for Nash
5. Team would've remained in contention, and arguably would be a bigger draw for free agents over last couple of years.

For me, this was the moment where I lost a little bit of love for the game, it turned my perception of how the league is run, I just think it was morally wrong and a huge conflict of interest, I still can't understand how the league allowed that to happen. For me, that tarnished Sterns reputation beyond repair.

I don't think this is the single reason we are where we are, there were a lot of questionable moves by the team following that, but there is no denying the veto moment as something that had a massive impact.

yup. furthermore, the trajectories of golden state and lebron would have been altered, and hence miami and the cavs. Someone else would've gotten the young guys we now have. THe Spurs likely would have been drastically altered with some of the aldridge, west signings. Lakers may have won another ring or two...kobe with 6, so many things. Durant's move to GS may not happen. SO much. It was really an NBA altering situation that has sort of been ignored (for good reason) over the years.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
BigGameHames
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:42 am    Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:
Moses wrote:
It definitely had an impact. When you look back at that moment, it could be argued that it affected so much more

1. CP3 would've saved Kobe's legs, maybe meaning he never gets his achilles injury
2. Would've got something for Pau instead of nothing
3. Probably still would've got Dwight, who arguably wouldn't have left
4. Wouldn't have had to give up those picks for Nash
5. Team would've remained in contention, and arguably would be a bigger draw for free agents over last couple of years.

For me, this was the moment where I lost a little bit of love for the game, it turned my perception of how the league is run, I just think it was morally wrong and a huge conflict of interest, I still can't understand how the league allowed that to happen. For me, that tarnished Sterns reputation beyond repair.

I don't think this is the single reason we are where we are, there were a lot of questionable moves by the team following that, but there is no denying the veto moment as something that had a massive impact.

yup. furthermore, the trajectories of golden state and lebron would have been altered, and hence miami and the cavs. Someone else would've gotten the young guys we now have. THe Spurs likely would have been drastically altered with some of the aldridge, west signings. Lakers may have won another ring or two...kobe with 6, so many things. Durant's move to GS may not happen. SO much. It was really an NBA altering situation that has sort of been ignored (for good reason) over the years.


you must be a strong believer in the butterfly effect.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Threatt_Level
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 30 Jul 2014
Posts: 467

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:03 pm    Post subject:

No. People need to stop blaming Stern. Jim and Mitch made tons and tons of mistakes since the Veto. The Veto didn't have to be the end of us as a playoff-competing franchise, but by that same token, once the Nash gamble didn't work out, Jim and Mitch didn't fully commit to tanking and gaining assets. We should've been dumping Gasol and taking on bad contracts for draft picks like The Process was doing in Philly. There's no reason we shouldn't have done the Stauskas/Landry trade rather than signing guys like Lou Will, Kaman, and Young and trading picks to get guys like Roy Hibbert. Indiana should've given us a pick to take Hibbert off their hands rather than the other way around.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
DShotMaker1824
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 16 Feb 2012
Posts: 8767

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:04 pm    Post subject:

Kobe would have been playing still if it wasn't for basketball reasons.
_________________

"Through the legs to the left, through the legs to the right, we don't run them Laker plays, we just Kobe fadeaway..."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
HumanVictoryCigar
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 28 Apr 2014
Posts: 7601

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:05 pm    Post subject:

trying to hit homeruns going after big free agents that were never coming, year after year after year is what did them in. The Mozzy/Deng signings were the nail in the coffin especially with Deng coming over here and looking like he aged 5 years over the summer. It's not a good look when you're paying the kind of money Mozzy is getting to see him riding the pine. If he was balling, that would be one thing but... he wasn't...

Plus, it seemed like they tried to freeze Jeanie out as to what their real plans were - which was going after big name free agents that were never coming! That was it... that was their plan, land some big name free agents and everything else would magically fall into place...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Blackhart217
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 03 Jul 2016
Posts: 171

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:08 pm    Post subject:

Pre Achilles Kobe and Paul and Howard and IMO Phil for one last hurrah if no Veto prob gets Kobe # 6, even if Howard still left afterwards (would have had 2 shots at it without D'Antoni), Lakers would have been competitive with prime Paul and post-prime Kobe.

But Jim's timeline plus Mosgov/Deng was their downfall. I wouldn't have minded if Mitch got 1 more year if no Mos/Deng but it was just too brutal.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 1 of 4
Jump to:  

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum






Graphics by uberzev
© 1995-2018 LakersGround.net. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy. Terms of Use.
LakersGround is an unofficial news source serving the fan community since 1995.
We are in no way associated with the Los Angeles Lakers or the National Basketball Association.


Powered by phpBB