United Airlines Force Customer Off Plane Due to Overbooking
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Omar Little
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:02 pm    Post subject:

AY2043 wrote:
vanexelent wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
BadGuy wrote:
the cheapest airlines are almost always the worst (e.g., Delta, United, etc.). not surprised at all


If you are paying rock bottom prices to fly, don't expect luxury service. The number of people they pack into an economy class cabin, I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often. You are literally being treated like cattle.


I fly Southwest all the time and nothing like this has ever happened. They overbook quite often, but there's always enough people that take the vouchers.

Yep. If Southwest can get me to where I'm trying to go, I'm flying with them. I've never not had a pain free, pleasant experience.


Southwest oversold and deboarded more passengers than any other airline last year. 4 times as many as United by the figures I saw.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:07 pm    Post subject:

Asian man gets random lottery style ass whoopin and it makes CNN.....
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:16 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
Apparently airlines overbooking is legal
Removing a paying passenger is also legal (up to airlines for reasons)
This 'resisting' passenger is actually liable for felony charge (good luck maintaining that medical degree)

We need new lawmakers


If he was black it'd be multiple felony charges.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:32 am    Post subject:

lakerjoshua wrote:
governator wrote:
Apparently airlines overbooking is legal
Removing a paying passenger is also legal (up to airlines for reasons)
This 'resisting' passenger is actually liable for felony charge (good luck maintaining that medical degree)

We need new lawmakers


If he was black it'd be multiple felony charges.


If he was black they would've made sure he couldn't testify
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:16 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
Apparently airlines overbooking is legal
Removing a paying passenger is also legal (up to airlines for reasons)
This 'resisting' passenger is actually liable for felony charge (good luck maintaining that medical degree)

We need new lawmakers


He has something more powerful than the law on his side... social media, youtube.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:14 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
governator wrote:
Apparently airlines overbooking is legal
Removing a paying passenger is also legal (up to airlines for reasons)


Legal, but has to take place within reason and with punitive compensation the passenger.

Quote:
This 'resisting' passenger is actually liable for felony charge (good luck maintaining that medical degree)

We need new lawmakers


You have a link for that? The explanations I have read today do not lay out that one must submit to physical extraction for not accepting random eviction for a paid seat. Quite the opposite.

At any rate, I doubt there's a prosecutor who wants to charge that doctor with a felony charge. Well at least not a prosecutor with a brain and a sense of self-preservation.


https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-resource-manual-1411-interference-flight-crew-members-or-flight-attendants-49-usc
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:41 am    Post subject:

lakerjoshua wrote:
Asian man gets random lottery style ass whoopin and it makes CNN.....


yep, this just gone viral on Wechat (their version of FB) yesterday
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:49 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
governator wrote:
Apparently airlines overbooking is legal
Removing a paying passenger is also legal (up to airlines for reasons)


Legal, but has to take place within reason and with punitive compensation the passenger.

Quote:
This 'resisting' passenger is actually liable for felony charge (good luck maintaining that medical degree)

We need new lawmakers


You have a link for that? The explanations I have read today do not lay out that one must submit to physical extraction for not accepting random eviction for a paid seat. Quite the opposite.

At any rate, I doubt there's a prosecutor who wants to charge that doctor with a felony charge. Well at least not a prosecutor with a brain and a sense of self-preservation.


https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-resource-manual-1411-interference-flight-crew-members-or-flight-attendants-49-usc


I'm aware of the rules about interfering with a flight crew. My point is that this is not your typical "unruly passenger gets into it with overly-authoritative flight attendant" incident. The man did absolutely nothing wrong until the crew had Aviation Security forcibly remove the man, thus injuring him - an act that lead to that officer being put on leave.

My other point is that regardless of the fact that the airline has some legal language to justify the eviction of a paid and otherwise cooperative passenger, given the way this was handled, I don't think there are too many prosecutors who would want to muddy their case loads trying to convict a doctor and senior citizen who was merely trying to return home on a flight he paid for so he could return to work the next day to treat his patients. There's no jury that is going to give the prosecution a conviction on a case like this. {Particular;ly when the logical resolution to this situation was for the airline to tell one of their own employees that they were going to have a day off the next day because they couldn't get them to their destination.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:50 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
governator wrote:
Apparently airlines overbooking is legal
Removing a paying passenger is also legal (up to airlines for reasons)


Legal, but has to take place within reason and with punitive compensation the passenger.

Quote:
This 'resisting' passenger is actually liable for felony charge (good luck maintaining that medical degree)

We need new lawmakers


You have a link for that? The explanations I have read today do not lay out that one must submit to physical extraction for not accepting random eviction for a paid seat. Quite the opposite.

At any rate, I doubt there's a prosecutor who wants to charge that doctor with a felony charge. Well at least not a prosecutor with a brain and a sense of self-preservation.


https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-resource-manual-1411-interference-flight-crew-members-or-flight-attendants-49-usc


Assaults, threatens, or intimidates? Nope.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:52 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
governator wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
governator wrote:
Apparently airlines overbooking is legal
Removing a paying passenger is also legal (up to airlines for reasons)


Legal, but has to take place within reason and with punitive compensation the passenger.

Quote:
This 'resisting' passenger is actually liable for felony charge (good luck maintaining that medical degree)

We need new lawmakers


You have a link for that? The explanations I have read today do not lay out that one must submit to physical extraction for not accepting random eviction for a paid seat. Quite the opposite.

At any rate, I doubt there's a prosecutor who wants to charge that doctor with a felony charge. Well at least not a prosecutor with a brain and a sense of self-preservation.


https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-resource-manual-1411-interference-flight-crew-members-or-flight-attendants-49-usc


I'm aware of the rules about interfering with a flight crew. My point is that this is not your typical "unruly passenger gets into it with overly-authoritative flight attendant" incident. The man did absolutely nothing wrong until the crew had Aviation Security forcibly remove the man, thus injuring him - an act that lead to that officer being put on leave.

My other point is that regardless of the fact that the airline has some legal language to justify the eviction of a paid and otherwise cooperative passenger, given the way this was handled, I don't think there are too many prosecutors who would want to muddy their case loads trying to convict a doctor and senior citizen who was merely trying to return home on a flight he paid for so he could return to work the next day to treat his patients. There's no jury that is going to give the prosecution a conviction on a case like this. {Particular;ly when the logical resolution to this situation was for the airline to tell one of their own employees that they were going to have a day off the next day because they couldn't get them to their destination.


agreed on all points DMR. I just wanted to point out that over the years, the lawmakers wrote laws that protect airlines more than passenger. Whether this is justified or not (the law making) is debatable. I just felt that they allow the industry to becomes few big companies (less competition) and they allow them to police themselves
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:56 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
AY2043 wrote:
vanexelent wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
BadGuy wrote:
the cheapest airlines are almost always the worst (e.g., Delta, United, etc.). not surprised at all


If you are paying rock bottom prices to fly, don't expect luxury service. The number of people they pack into an economy class cabin, I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often. You are literally being treated like cattle.


I fly Southwest all the time and nothing like this has ever happened. They overbook quite often, but there's always enough people that take the vouchers.

Yep. If Southwest can get me to where I'm trying to go, I'm flying with them. I've never not had a pain free, pleasant experience.


Southwest oversold and deboarded more passengers than any other airline last year. 4 times as many as United by the figures I saw.


Does that de-boarding stat include those who accepted vouchers and voluntarily gave up their seat?

All carriers oversell because many passengers don't show up for their flights or they miss. If you do that with Southwest or even if you cancel the flight all together, the passenger still keeps their flight credit (for up to a year). I'm guessing that's why they have the highest oversell rates.

But again, from my experience with them, there is always multiple travelers willing to take the free voucher and give up their seat.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:00 am    Post subject:

The fact that he is Chinese has not been lost on the Chinese. It's gone viral in China too and many are calling discrimination on the part of United.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:55 am    Post subject:

Runway8 wrote:
governator wrote:
Apparently airlines overbooking is legal
Removing a paying passenger is also legal (up to airlines for reasons)
This 'resisting' passenger is actually liable for felony charge (good luck maintaining that medical degree)

We need new lawmakers


He has something more powerful than the law on his side... social media, youtube.


Next week no one will remember.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:25 am    Post subject:

What a PR nightmare for United Airlines....this will take years for them to regain their trust from the customers back.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:36 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
governator wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
governator wrote:
Apparently airlines overbooking is legal
Removing a paying passenger is also legal (up to airlines for reasons)


Legal, but has to take place within reason and with punitive compensation the passenger.

Quote:
This 'resisting' passenger is actually liable for felony charge (good luck maintaining that medical degree)

We need new lawmakers


You have a link for that? The explanations I have read today do not lay out that one must submit to physical extraction for not accepting random eviction for a paid seat. Quite the opposite.

At any rate, I doubt there's a prosecutor who wants to charge that doctor with a felony charge. Well at least not a prosecutor with a brain and a sense of self-preservation.


https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-resource-manual-1411-interference-flight-crew-members-or-flight-attendants-49-usc


I'm aware of the rules about interfering with a flight crew. My point is that this is not your typical "unruly passenger gets into it with overly-authoritative flight attendant" incident. The man did absolutely nothing wrong until the crew had Aviation Security forcibly remove the man, thus injuring him - an act that lead to that officer being put on leave.

My other point is that regardless of the fact that the airline has some legal language to justify the eviction of a paid and otherwise cooperative passenger, given the way this was handled, I don't think there are too many prosecutors who would want to muddy their case loads trying to convict a doctor and senior citizen who was merely trying to return home on a flight he paid for so he could return to work the next day to treat his patients. There's no jury that is going to give the prosecution a conviction on a case like this. {Particular;ly when the logical resolution to this situation was for the airline to tell one of their own employees that they were going to have a day off the next day because they couldn't get them to their destination.


agreed on all points DMR. I just wanted to point out that over the years, the lawmakers wrote laws that protect airlines more than passenger. Whether this is justified or not (the law making) is debatable. I just felt that they allow the industry to becomes few big companies (less competition) and they allow them to police themselves


Agreed. They have allowed far too much latitude to the airline industry. No paying customer should ever be forced to deplane for anything other than behavior or safety issues, and certainly not be kicked off so that an airline employee can be shuttled around.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:39 am    Post subject:

And now some media outlets are smearing the passenger (no doubt with some prodding by United):

Media outlets smear victim of United Airlines brutality
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:46 am    Post subject:

The CEO is a dope. I read that email he sent out to the employees, and he really needs a better PR or PR crisis team. First off, he comes off as a defensive, disingenuous, arrogant prick. First off, enabling the cops to escalate the situation into a customer beat down was an obvious mistake, and he should have made an apology while distancing the airline to physical altercation. Second, he neglected the obvious social media-fed video, and news reports, none of which demonstrated or reported the behavior he attributed to his customer ("disruptive and belligerent"). The language used in the email would have made Kellyanne Conway proud, in describing the beat down as "re-accomodate" and that facts were "evolving" (just like "alternative facts").
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:06 pm    Post subject:

angrypuppy wrote:
The CEO is a dope. I read that email he sent out to the employees, and he really needs a better PR or PR crisis team. First off, he comes off as a defensive, disingenuous, arrogant prick. First off, enabling the cops to escalate the situation into a customer beat down was an obvious mistake, and he should have made an apology while distancing the airline to physical altercation. Second, he neglected the obvious social media-fed video, and news reports, none of which demonstrated or reported the behavior he attributed to his customer ("disruptive and belligerent"). The language used in the email would have made Kellyanne Conway proud, in describing the beat down as "re-accomodate" and that facts were "evolving" (just like "alternative facts").


How China Could Kill United Airlines
Nearly $1 billion was wiped off of United's stock value on Tuesday.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/04/11/how-china-could-kill-united-airlines.html


Quote:
Given this new level of competition for United in China, in the realm of unintended consequences, Munoz’s statement is likely to turn out to be very costly. There is already an online chorus of people in China demanding that the Chinese should boycott United.

Munoz had already made a maladroit statement that resorted to the euphemism “having to re-accommodate these customers” when describing what happened, and said his airline was “reaching out” to the specific victim to “further address and resolve this situation.”
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:47 pm    Post subject:

The United Video and the Face of Complicity

Yes, there are people who think United was right, and the reasons why are chilling.



And this is probably where it’s worth noting that there’s a certain quality that’s shared by everyone I’ve seen speak out against the United victim. What could it be?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:14 pm    Post subject:

I hope everyone boycotts United. (bleep) them and (bleep) everyone who's actually siding with them. Worthless human beings.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:36 pm    Post subject:

The CEO has to have been given his position via nepotism

The guy should not have said anything until he talked to several lawyers and especially a few Chinese ones..

They can't throw this on anyone but their own decision makers.. they told the authorities to remove the passenger

I just wish it would've been me they knocked out and dragged down the aisle... $$$$$$
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:41 pm    Post subject:

This website has been running for 20 years. It was one of the first consumer complaint websites.

http://untied.com/main.shtml
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:49 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
governator wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
governator wrote:
Apparently airlines overbooking is legal
Removing a paying passenger is also legal (up to airlines for reasons)


Legal, but has to take place within reason and with punitive compensation the passenger.

Quote:
This 'resisting' passenger is actually liable for felony charge (good luck maintaining that medical degree)

We need new lawmakers


You have a link for that? The explanations I have read today do not lay out that one must submit to physical extraction for not accepting random eviction for a paid seat. Quite the opposite.

At any rate, I doubt there's a prosecutor who wants to charge that doctor with a felony charge. Well at least not a prosecutor with a brain and a sense of self-preservation.


https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-resource-manual-1411-interference-flight-crew-members-or-flight-attendants-49-usc


Assaults, threatens, or intimidates? Nope.


My point was that airline company has the law behind them that any passenger (even paying) that interfere with the flight crew can be charged criminally. What is the definition of interfere legally, prob wanna ask a lawyer but it's pretty broad.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:47 pm    Post subject:

vanexelent wrote:
The fact that he is Chinese has not been lost on the Chinese. It's gone viral in China too and many are calling discrimination on the part of United.


I thought I read that he is Vietnamese.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:18 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
What a PR nightmare for United Airlines....this will take years for them to regain their trust from the customers back.


If those customers haven't been paying attention the last 20 years, doubtful they'd lose trust here.
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