OFFICIAL 2017 NBA PLAYOFF EDITION
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tox
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:43 am    Post subject:

pmacla wrote:
governator wrote:
IceInMyVeins wrote:
For all the praise LeBron is getting for averaging a triple double, that he stat padded to get but whatever, no one is mentioning Curry.

27 pts 9.4 ass 8 rebs on 5 minutes less than LeBron and a good 5" shorter.


Those #s are all less than LeBron's and he had a bad game to boot. If we don't consider winning team, LeBron would've had my vote for Finals MVP


this is crazy to me considering that Game 3 and 5 could have been won by the Cavs if not lazy defense and blown coverages by LeBron late in the 4th qtr and the game they did win was because of Kyrie not LeBron I wish the modern fan would see past numbers and see the whole game


Hopefully the narrative about LeBron's 2017 performance includes his shoddy defense. One thing that made his 2016 Finals so impressive was how he was dominant on both ends. 2017 reminded me more of 2014, where his stats looked good but his defense was just bad (at least from my recollection)
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:35 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
One thing that made his 2016 Finals so impressive was how he was dominant on both ends. 2017 reminded me more of 2014, where his stats looked good but his defense was just bad (at least from my recollection)


When Harrison Barnes was having one clanger after clanger in the final three games of that series, it really made LBJ look good.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:41 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
pmacla wrote:
governator wrote:
IceInMyVeins wrote:
For all the praise LeBron is getting for averaging a triple double, that he stat padded to get but whatever, no one is mentioning Curry.

27 pts 9.4 ass 8 rebs on 5 minutes less than LeBron and a good 5" shorter.


Those #s are all less than LeBron's and he had a bad game to boot. If we don't consider winning team, LeBron would've had my vote for Finals MVP


this is crazy to me considering that Game 3 and 5 could have been won by the Cavs if not lazy defense and blown coverages by LeBron late in the 4th qtr and the game they did win was because of Kyrie not LeBron I wish the modern fan would see past numbers and see the whole game


Hopefully the narrative about LeBron's 2017 performance includes his shoddy defense. One thing that made his 2016 Finals so impressive was how he was dominant on both ends. 2017 reminded me more of 2014, where his stats looked good but his defense was just bad (at least from my recollection)

The biggest thing that stood out to me about Lebron defensively was how little of an impact he had in that series. Lebron and KD matched up against each other defensively usually in the first quarter, but usually Shumpert/Jefferson were his primary defenders later on. Also didn't help that KD shot a really high percentage when being guarded by Lebron. I understand that Lebron was pretty much the only consistent engine for the Cavs the entire series but I'd expect if he was guarding someone other than KD, he'd have more of an impact off the ball defensively through help defense.
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tox
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:07 am    Post subject:

giordan0 wrote:
tox wrote:
One thing that made his 2016 Finals so impressive was how he was dominant on both ends. 2017 reminded me more of 2014, where his stats looked good but his defense was just bad (at least from my recollection)


When Harrison Barnes was having one clanger after clanger in the final three games of that series, it really made LBJ look good.


Actually yeah, I agree with this. LeBron's a crazy good free safety when he can be... rim protection and crazy passing lane disruptions. Because Barnes couldn't shoot (or Iggy for that matter), LeBron had free rein to ignore him and play free safety and maximize his off ball terror. This year he had to guard KD. Not only did KD roast him 1v1 (I never thought that highly of LeBron's individual defense), it also neutralized his off ball defense.

But I do think another component of it was just effort.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:08 am    Post subject:

The Logo wrote:

The biggest thing that stood out to me about Lebron defensively was how little of an impact he had in that series. Lebron and KD matched up against each other defensively usually in the first quarter, but usually Shumpert/Jefferson were his primary defenders later on. Also didn't help that KD shot a really high percentage when being guarded by Lebron. I understand that Lebron was pretty much the only consistent engine for the Cavs the entire series but I'd expect if he was guarding someone other than KD, he'd have more of an impact off the ball defensively through help defense.

Spot on. Come to think of it, I don't even remember him playing defense except when he was matched up with KD. Shows how unimpactful he was.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:15 am    Post subject:

Anyone at the parade down to link up? Warriors are cool and all but I wanna talk about my Lakers
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:39 am    Post subject:

Lebron actively avoided expending energy on defense this series. Last game I remember he wraps around Livingston to draw a hail-mary offensive foul while Iguodala just runs in and hammers it down. He wants no part of that anymore.

Here's a good breakdown
https://youtu.be/32zgkcybr-A
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:40 am    Post subject:

levon wrote:
Lebron actively avoided expending energy on defense this series. Last game I remember he wraps around Livingston to draw a hail-mary offensive foul while Iguodala just runs in and hammers it down. He wants no part of that anymore.

Here's a good breakdown
https://youtu.be/32zgkcybr-A


He cared only for his triple double
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:40 am    Post subject:

tox wrote:
The Logo wrote:

The biggest thing that stood out to me about Lebron defensively was how little of an impact he had in that series. Lebron and KD matched up against each other defensively usually in the first quarter, but usually Shumpert/Jefferson were his primary defenders later on. Also didn't help that KD shot a really high percentage when being guarded by Lebron. I understand that Lebron was pretty much the only consistent engine for the Cavs the entire series but I'd expect if he was guarding someone other than KD, he'd have more of an impact off the ball defensively through help defense.

Spot on. Come to think of it, I don't even remember him playing defense except when he was matched up with KD. Shows how unimpactful he was.


That took me back to the Lakers and Nuggets and while Trevor tried hard, he couldn't handle Melo. And Kobe had to get in there and take him.

It took me back to Game 7 2002 WCF when Mike Bibby was torching the hell out Fish. And less than 5 minutes to go in regulation, Kobe with his 5 fouls, took on Mike Bibby.

It was clear from the opening tip that KD was the man going to lead Oakland back to paradise. As the so-called best player in the world, you gotta take that man. 88 year-old Richard Jefferson on Kevin Durant?? Seriously?? LeBron should be ashamed.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:41 am    Post subject:

hoopschick29 wrote:
tox wrote:
The Logo wrote:

The biggest thing that stood out to me about Lebron defensively was how little of an impact he had in that series. Lebron and KD matched up against each other defensively usually in the first quarter, but usually Shumpert/Jefferson were his primary defenders later on. Also didn't help that KD shot a really high percentage when being guarded by Lebron. I understand that Lebron was pretty much the only consistent engine for the Cavs the entire series but I'd expect if he was guarding someone other than KD, he'd have more of an impact off the ball defensively through help defense.

Spot on. Come to think of it, I don't even remember him playing defense except when he was matched up with KD. Shows how unimpactful he was.


That took me back to the Lakers and Nuggets and while Trevor tried hard, he couldn't handle Melo. And Kobe had to get in there and take him.

It took me back to Game 7 2002 WCF when Mike Bibby was torching the hell out Fish. And less than 5 minutes to go in regulation, Kobe with his 5 fouls, took on Mike Bibby.

It was clear from the opening tip that KD was the man going to lead Oakland back to paradise. As the so-called best player in the world, you gotta take that man. 88 year-old Richard Jefferson on Kevin Durant?? Seriously?? LeBron should be ashamed.


And when he was on durant at the end of game 3, durant hit the 3 anyway
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:46 am    Post subject:

There was a point in game 5 where there was a switch on LeBron and Curry was guarding him and LeBron passed the ball up. I was thinking, "c'mon Bron, you gotta take that to the rack. Or post that guy up."
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:47 am    Post subject:

Chronicle wrote:
hoopschick29 wrote:
tox wrote:
The Logo wrote:

The biggest thing that stood out to me about Lebron defensively was how little of an impact he had in that series. Lebron and KD matched up against each other defensively usually in the first quarter, but usually Shumpert/Jefferson were his primary defenders later on. Also didn't help that KD shot a really high percentage when being guarded by Lebron. I understand that Lebron was pretty much the only consistent engine for the Cavs the entire series but I'd expect if he was guarding someone other than KD, he'd have more of an impact off the ball defensively through help defense.

Spot on. Come to think of it, I don't even remember him playing defense except when he was matched up with KD. Shows how unimpactful he was.


That took me back to the Lakers and Nuggets and while Trevor tried hard, he couldn't handle Melo. And Kobe had to get in there and take him.

It took me back to Game 7 2002 WCF when Mike Bibby was torching the hell out Fish. And less than 5 minutes to go in regulation, Kobe with his 5 fouls, took on Mike Bibby.

It was clear from the opening tip that KD was the man going to lead Oakland back to paradise. As the so-called best player in the world, you gotta take that man. 88 year-old Richard Jefferson on Kevin Durant?? Seriously?? LeBron should be ashamed.


And when he was on durant at the end of game 3, durant hit the 3 anyway


But see...it's something you have to commit to doing. He should've been as committed to Durant as he was to getting his triple doubles. Watch that play. LeBron hunkered down 3 feet inside in the 3 point line. Did he really think he could give Kevin Durant (of all people) that kind of daylight?? KD was like, 'Really, bruh?' And launched.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:49 am    Post subject:

Lebron couldn't really bother Durant one-on-one, I don't blame him, very few can. Maybe Giannis and Ingram in a few years? But otherwise he was really poor. He gets pulled out to Klay in transition leaving Iggy for a dunk but he's in no-man's-land every single time. I know he's smart enough, so if it's not willpower, then it's an energy issue which doesn't bode well for future title runs.

But like tox said, it was like 2014 when I think Lebron knew he was going to lose so tried to secure his own stats. Combined with the "I did my part, left everything out on the floor today" line in every interview.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:42 pm    Post subject:

Draymond and Warriors clowning BronBron bad for that egregious lie about never playing on a super team. He made fun of the 8 lottery picks on Cavs vs mostly organic built Warriors. "You started the superteam bruh."
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:24 am    Post subject:

tox wrote:
pmacla wrote:
governator wrote:
IceInMyVeins wrote:
For all the praise LeBron is getting for averaging a triple double, that he stat padded to get but whatever, no one is mentioning Curry.

27 pts 9.4 ass 8 rebs on 5 minutes less than LeBron and a good 5" shorter.


Those #s are all less than LeBron's and he had a bad game to boot. If we don't consider winning team, LeBron would've had my vote for Finals MVP


this is crazy to me considering that Game 3 and 5 could have been won by the Cavs if not lazy defense and blown coverages by LeBron late in the 4th qtr and the game they did win was because of Kyrie not LeBron I wish the modern fan would see past numbers and see the whole game


Hopefully the narrative about LeBron's 2017 performance includes his shoddy defense. One thing that made his 2016 Finals so impressive was how he was dominant on both ends. 2017 reminded me more of 2014, where his stats looked good but his defense was just bad (at least fro
m my recollection)



It should. But it won't. People/media will just preach his triple double average and say he was dominant the entire series.

If it was any other player, they'd get roasted for having such poor off the ball defense. In some cases, not taking a smart foul and instead letting players just go down the lane and dunk while he just stood there.

GOAT my ass.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:26 am    Post subject:

hoopschick29 wrote:
tox wrote:
The Logo wrote:

The biggest thing that stood out to me about Lebron defensively was how little of an impact he had in that series. Lebron and KD matched up against each other defensively usually in the first quarter, but usually Shumpert/Jefferson were his primary defenders later on. Also didn't help that KD shot a really high percentage when being guarded by Lebron. I understand that Lebron was pretty much the only consistent engine for the Cavs the entire series but I'd expect if he was guarding someone other than KD, he'd have more of an impact off the ball defensively through help defense.

Spot on. Come to think of it, I don't even remember him playing defense except when he was matched up with KD. Shows how unimpactful he was.


That took me back to the Lakers and Nuggets and while Trevor tried hard, he couldn't handle Melo. And Kobe had to get in there and take him.

It took me back to Game 7 2002 WCF when Mike Bibby was torching the hell out Fish. And less than 5 minutes to go in regulation, Kobe with his 5 fouls, took on Mike Bibby.

It was clear from the opening tip that KD was the man going to lead Oakland back to paradise. As the so-called best player in the world, you gotta take that man. 88 year-old Richard Jefferson on Kevin Durant?? Seriously?? LeBron should be ashamed.



They were probably trying to save Lebron's energy for offense. But Lebron's off the ball defense was piss poor the entire series.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:34 pm    Post subject:

A little off topic, but man...McMennamin has his head so far up Lebron's behind, I'm not sure he can see anymore. Every article he writes, or anything he says, is unabashedly pro-Lebron. Kind of embarrassing that he used to be a reporter for us.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:37 pm    Post subject:

guys like that already think Lebron is better than Jordan.

if/when lebron wins 1 more ring, the "GOAT" talk will go back to being center stage


6-0 versus 3-5 (or even if he wins the next 2 finals at 5-5) is not even close. NOT EVEN CLOSE.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:58 pm    Post subject:

Krispy Kreme wrote:
guys like that already think Lebron is better than Jordan.

if/when lebron wins 1 more ring, the "GOAT" talk will go back to being center stage

6-0 versus 3-5 (or even if he wins the next 2 finals at 5-5) is not even close. NOT EVEN CLOSE.


Yeah, it's just frustrating when reporters (Windhorst, McMennamin, etc.) make their living on being 100% pro-Lebron. Honestly, you just lose all your credibility as a reporter when you do that and you're not willing to criticize them.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:21 pm    Post subject:

leor_77 wrote:
Krispy Kreme wrote:
guys like that already think Lebron is better than Jordan.

if/when lebron wins 1 more ring, the "GOAT" talk will go back to being center stage

6-0 versus 3-5 (or even if he wins the next 2 finals at 5-5) is not even close. NOT EVEN CLOSE.


Yeah, it's just frustrating when reporters (Windhorst, McMennamin, etc.) make their living on being 100% pro-Lebron. Honestly, you just lose all your credibility as a reporter when you do that and you're not willing to criticize them.


Reporters typically do this to get exclusive access, also why I am sure ESPN does this.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:33 pm    Post subject:

LeBron actually averaged a quadruple double. Points, assists, rebounds, and free lanes given up to Iggy and KD. GOAT.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:35 pm    Post subject:

IceInMyVeins wrote:
governator wrote:
IceInMyVeins wrote:
governator wrote:
IceInMyVeins wrote:
For all the praise LeBron is getting for averaging a triple double, that he stat padded to get but whatever, no one is mentioning Curry.

27 pts 9.4 ass 8 rebs on 5 minutes less than LeBron and a good 5" shorter.


Those #s are all less than LeBron's and he had a bad game to boot. If we don't consider winning team, LeBron would've had my vote for Finals MVP


I know they are are less, never said they weren't. Just saying they're close to a triple double that everyone loves. Basically 2 rebs shy of it for a guy that's 6'3" and played less minutes than the other guy that averaged a triple double. That's all I'm saying.

Durant was FMVP hands down. Maybe someone was not watching how LeBron's horrible defense basically cost the Cavs the title.


Maybe I saw it differently but LeBron was the biggest reason Cavs has any resemblance of a chance against GS


That is true as well. They are not mutually exclusive.



Durant was the MVP of that series and it's not even close - regardless of stats he completely controlled every game but 1. He hit the shot every time he needed to hit it and he absolutely dominated their defense - oh and his stats were ridiculous too. Is everybody forgetting that Westbrook averaged a triple double for an entire season? In Lebrons case when his entire team clears out after an opponents miss just so Lebron can get the uncontested rebound. Steph curry averaging the amount of rebounds he did as a little guard is every bit as impressive as Lebron grabbing 10 of them a game or whatever

Lebron is an extremely gifted athlete with great passing abilities - however he has glaring weaknesses in his game when it comes to finals play. He's terrible at reading mismatches - how many times was curry guarding him only for him to pass it off to a worse situation? He's horrible at adjusting his style of play to what he needs to do in order to win the game - for instance we saw a lot of different Kobes over the years because he knew one type of play style would not get it done over the years. Lebron always plays the exact same way. The only time he ever changed his style of play was in 2015 in the finals and I actually had respect for him for trying to take the team on his back because it was his only chance of winning - Lebron deferring to a hobbled Kyrie Irving in the second half of games was not going to get it done in the finals bottom line. It's also the bottom line that 3 out of the last 5 finals the guy guarding Lebron the most won the finals MVP against him. The dude is 3-5 in the finals. That's a LOT of a player not capitalizing

I don't care how good the other teams secondary players are if you are the "best player in the world and possibly ever*(lmfao at the second part) then you should win - that's it - and that's what happens most of the time. You will see a player like Kobe lose once in a while in the playoffs or finals especially - but usually the most dominant force in the league should win - unless you have absolute and total scrubs next to you. Cleveland had the highest payroll in the NBA and are a super team so I don't even want to hear this crap about his team being outmatched - if that is the case then you need to take on a bigger responsibility for yourself and figure out the strategy that overcomes that.

Let's also not forget that Lebron is the one who put his own team together - by basically gun point - he demanded and he got what he wanted exactly
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:36 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
I don't care how good the other teams secondary players are if you are the "best player in the world and possibly ever*(lmfao at the second part) then you should win - that's it - and that's what happens most of the time.

Basketball is a team sport. I can't agree with any logic that leads me to criticize Kobe for failing to win with trash like Smush Parker and Kwame Brown next to him -- and that's exactly what this quote suggests.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:37 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
Quote:
I don't care how good the other teams secondary players are if you are the "best player in the world and possibly ever*(lmfao at the second part) then you should win - that's it - and that's what happens most of the time.

Basketball is a team sport. I can't agree with any logic that leads me to criticize Kobe for failing to win with trash like Smush Parker and Kwame Brown next to him -- and that's exactly what this quote suggests.



Did you read literally the next couple sentences where I said unless your team is complete trash?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:39 pm    Post subject:

Bron is an all time great. I'll take Kobe but Kobe, td, bron are all grouped imo
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