Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:07 am Post subject: Our Young Core-Year in Review
Ingram has shown me he has all star potential and is likely our highest valued player.
DLO has shown me similar all star potential, and is easily our 2nd highest valued player.
Jules has certainly (should be clear by now) wiped away any ridiculous fears that he's a bust. He may be on the near-all star trajectory.
JC is pretty much what I thought he'd be.
Nance showed his value on court as a smart defender. I worry about his durability going forward, but he's a big time keeper on this team.
Zubac has showed some flash in his offensive game. The concern remains about his defense (not necessarily rim protecting) in space and in PnR situations. Someone said that he may be going more towards an Enes Kanter (good offensive player, defensive struggle) trajectory, which is still quite a coup for a 32nd pick.
Nwaba is a good guy to keep. Love his life story and is a good reminder that the NBA is a daily grind and that each day should be cherished.
Ennis is an unrestricted FA and the Lakers are capped at 2.6m (due to CBA rules). So if a team offers him 3m, he's likely gone.
Black is likely gone unless we punt and keep his 6m deal.
It's been a really good year (especially post ASG) to evaluate these young players. We have at least 2 studs in the making (DLO/Ingram), a starting level player (Jules), 2 solid rotation players (JC, Nance) and a prospect (Zub). Things are looking well especially if we can add another top 3 pick this summer.
Go Lakers. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Posts: 7849 Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:13 am Post subject:
Ennis said he likes it here and wants to stay so unless someone offers him alot more I think he would stay, he knows situation with his contract so if Lakers offer that on like a 2 year deal I could see him coming back
Ennis said he likes it here and wants to stay so unless someone offers him alot more I think he would stay, he knows situation with his contract so if Lakers offer that on like a 2 year deal I could see him coming back
Yeah. Depends on a lot of things. I wouldn't fault him for leaving for money; if anything he understands how fickle this NBA life is. I would be amenable to something like 2 years, 2m/year, 2nd year team option. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Joined: 10 Jul 2009 Posts: 12161 Location: Bay Area
Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:16 am Post subject:
Pretty much agree on all counts. I really, really hope Nwaba works on his shot this offseason. He doesn't need to be lights out, but too often he doesn't even take the shot in the corner, stalling the offense and forcing up a wild drive. If he could just add a bit to his game, he's a strong guard off the bench
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35812 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:28 am Post subject:
How would you rank our PF/Center prospects? Between Randle, Zubac, Black, Nance, Robinson if you want to count him, etc. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
Joined: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 33474 Location: Long Beach, California
Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:33 am Post subject:
I think the team did a disservice to both Clarkson and Russell. While I agree that Russell has definite all-star potential, Russell plateaued a bit this season I think, in part, because of how he was handled and because we focused initially on winning rather than development. I don't think its a coincidence that the vets were shut down around the same time Magic/Pelinka came in. I also think they've played games with him and butted heads with him unnecessarily. Clarkson should have been at PG the whole season (as discussed below), with Russell at the off guard as well. I'm not sure that changes what is asked of Russell, but its clear Russell is better off when he has a score first rather than pass first mentality. In any case, Russell wasn't developed the way he should have been and, so, he didn't improve that much this season as a result.
As for Clarkson, I think he's been messed with too in the sense of the roles he's been asked to play. It's clear to me that, for no other reason than his and this team's development, he should have been a starter. Again, trying to win and creating a bench that revolved around Lou Williams, did nothing to help Clarkson or to help him learn how to run/play in an NBA system. He was made to look worse than he is because of the role he was asked to play. It's too bad. However, at least its been nice to see him growing over the last month since he was put in the starting lineup and asked to play what I think is his best position - PG.
As for Ingram, the force is strong in that one. All about experience and physical maturation. Not concerned about him at all at this point.
Randle I think silenced a lot of criticisms. He's not the player he can be yet, but, as compared to last year, I think he's the player who has grown the most on this team. You are starting to hear the media taking notice of him as well. If he can make a similar jump next year, we'll have quite a player on our hands. Just keep working on stamina and the jumper.
I'm excited to see Zubac (and Ingram as well) to have a full summer of professional NBA training and conditioning. While in great normal person shape, Zubac needs to still get in better NBA shape and pick up some lean mass. I think with a summer of NBA training, not only will he become more of a beast on offense, but I think he'll pick up some quickness that we all agree is much needed on the defensive end.
As for Nance, he's Nance. Consumate role player. I hope he keeps developing his jumper. His ability to hit the J, get a little smarter on defensive rotations, and stay healthy are the only things that, IMO, prevent him from being a starting caliber PF in this league.
Finally, as for Black, Ennis and Nwaba... I've appreciated their contributions, but they are all role players. I'd love to have all of them back - Ennis and Black especially - but they aren't part of this core and they are ultimately replaceable by vet role players once we have a core team that can win games (and attract free agents). _________________ LakersGround's Terms of Service
Joined: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 33474 Location: Long Beach, California
Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:36 am Post subject:
Cutheon wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
How would you rank our PF/Center prospects? Between Randle, Zubac, Black, Nance, Robinson if you want to count him, etc.
1. Randle
2A. Nance
2B. Zu
Black/Robinson
As current players at their current abilities, I agree. As prospects based on projected ceilings, however, I go Randle, Zubac and then Nance. I think Zubac has a potential higher ceiling than Nance - its not far fetched to see him as a future Marc Gasol. I could see Nance's career playing out much like Serge Ibaka if he continues to refine his J and can stay healthy. Randle still has a shot of having a Blake Griffin type career, but, right now, is more on a Draymond Green trajectory if he continues his improvement/growth. _________________ LakersGround's Terms of Service
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Last edited by LakerSanity on Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:38 am; edited 1 time in total
I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but I don't understand why a lot of people think Ennis is automatically gone and will get a much better offer from another team. Why? What has he proven? He had a decent stretch for us as a backup PG, but it's a terribly small sample size and it's not like he was out there averaging double digits off the bench, racking up assists, and blowing up in a meaningful way. It was promising and shows he may yet have a long, respectable NBA career ahead of him, but he's still a bust who's been traded 3 times in 3 years until proven otherwise.
Seth Curry got 2 years/$6M last summer, and he was a forgotten man in free agency until Dallas picked him up late. He had a comparable previous season to Ennis, but with double the games played. So, I don't see Ennis getting a contract any bigger than that.
How do you (or we, if you're knowledgeable and reply) assess their growth on defense, and separately, their defensive potential in both team and individual defense, given that most Laker minutes will be taken by the first 3 and Zubac? Which translates into those guys will be who we mean when we talk about "Laker defense".
I think it's way too early to write a rookie that that played most of the year as a 19 year old off on the defensive end. Will also add that it was great to see Randle starting to shoot and knock down 3's after the all star break.
All in all, DLO/Ingram/Randle/Zu/JC/Nance/Nwaba finished the year strong and Laker fans have a lot to be excited about I believe, if we stay on course. _________________ "He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though."
I think the team did a disservice to both Clarkson and Russell. While I agree that Russell has definite all-star potential, Russell plateaued a bit this season I think, in part, because of how he was handled and because we focused initially on winning rather than development. I don't think its a coincidence that the vets were shut down around the same time Magic/Pelinka came in. I also think they've played games with him and butted heads with him unnecessarily. Clarkson should have been at PG the whole season (as discussed below), with Russell at the off guard as well. I'm not sure that changes what is asked of Russell, but its clear Russell is better off when he has a score first rather than pass first mentality. In any case, Russell wasn't developed the way he should have been and, so, he didn't improve that much this season as a result.
As for Clarkson, I think he's been messed with too in the sense of the roles he's been asked to play. It's clear to me that, for no other reason than his and this team's development, he should have been a starter. Again, trying to win and creating a bench that revolved around Lou Williams, did nothing to help Clarkson or to help him learn how to run/play in an NBA system. He was made to look worse than he is because of the role he was asked to play. It's too bad. However, at least its been nice to see him growing over the last month since he was put in the starting lineup and asked to play what I think is his best position - PG.
As for Ingram, the force is strong in that one. All about experience and physical maturation. Not concerned about him at all at this point.
Randle I think silenced a lot of criticisms. He's not the player he can be yet, but, as compared to last year, I think he's the player who has grown the most on this team. You are starting to hear the media taking notice of him as well. If he can make a similar jump next year, we'll have quite a player on our hands. Just keep working on stamina and the jumper.
I'm excited to see Zubac (and Ingram as well) to have a full summer of professional NBA training and conditioning. While in great normal person shape, Zubac needs to still get in better NBA shape and pick up some lean mass. I think with a summer of NBA training, not only will he become more of a beast on offense, but I think he'll pick up some quickness that we all agree is much needed on the defensive end.
As for Nance, he's Nance. Consumate role player. I hope he keeps developing his jumper. His ability to hit the J, get a little smarter on defensive rotations, and stay healthy are the only things that, IMO, prevent him from being a starting caliber PF in this league.
Finally, as for Black, Ennis and Nwaba... I've appreciated their contributions, but they are all role players. I'd love to have all of them back - Ennis and Black especially - but they aren't part of this core and they are ultimately replaceable by vet role players once we have a core team that can win games (and attract free agents).
I'm just glad the new FO (or who knows, maybe Mitch and Jim would've done the same eventually?) came in and salvaged things in the end, as far as focusing on tank...I mean, the development of our young players. I think that post All-Star break did help DLo more than you stated, though.
I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but I don't understand why a lot of people think Ennis is automatically gone and will get a much better offer from another team. Why? What has he proven? He had a decent stretch for us as a backup PG, but it's a terribly small sample size and it's not like he was out there averaging double digits off the bench, racking up assists, and blowing up in a meaningful way. It was promising and shows he may yet have a long, respectable NBA career ahead of him, but he's still a bust who's been traded 3 times in 3 years until proven otherwise.
Seth Curry got 2 years/$6M last summer, and he was a forgotten man in free agency until Dallas picked him up late. He had a comparable previous season to Ennis, but with double the games played. So, I don't see Ennis getting a contract any bigger than that.
All accurate. I hit on this in another thread. Our own TRob is another example last season finishing the year strong and still no offers. Teams not putting stock into end of season stats when most teams are resting guys might play into it. _________________ "He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though."
I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but I don't understand why a lot of people think Ennis is automatically gone and will get a much better offer from another team. Why? What has he proven? He had a decent stretch for us as a backup PG, but it's a terribly small sample size and it's not like he was out there averaging double digits off the bench, racking up assists, and blowing up in a meaningful way. It was promising and shows he may yet have a long, respectable NBA career ahead of him, but he's still a bust who's been traded 3 times in 3 years until proven otherwise.
Seth Curry got 2 years/$6M last summer, and he was a forgotten man in free agency until Dallas picked him up late. He had a comparable previous season to Ennis, but with double the games played. So, I don't see Ennis getting a contract any bigger than that.
Well that's the point. Lakers could only offer 2.6m and he would be walking away from 3m/year? _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Joined: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 33474 Location: Long Beach, California
Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:44 am Post subject:
TheBlackMamba wrote:
I'm just glad the new FO (or who knows, maybe Mitch and Jim would've done the same eventually?) came in and salvaged things in the end, as far as focusing on tank...I mean, the development of our young players. I think that post All-Star break did help DLo more than you stated, though.
I think all of DLO's development came post-all star break by moving him to the off guard, which highlights the problem. It was also a dumb move to put him on the bench, regardless of his maturity issues. That seems like a very Byron Scott-esque play, and Luke should have more creative and effective ways of getting players in line than that old school go-to move. Anyway, I've liked seeing DLO's improvement in the second half of the season, but such improvement still wasn't at the level I'd like to see and I think could have been had if the Laker approached him with a better plan. _________________ LakersGround's Terms of Service
Joined: 10 Jul 2009 Posts: 12161 Location: Bay Area
Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:46 am Post subject:
LakerSanity wrote:
Cutheon wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
How would you rank our PF/Center prospects? Between Randle, Zubac, Black, Nance, Robinson if you want to count him, etc.
1. Randle
2A. Nance
2B. Zu
Black/Robinson
As current players at their current abilities, I agree. As prospects based on projected ceilings, however, I go Randle, Zubac and then Nance. I think Zubac has a potential higher ceiling than Nance - its not far fetched to see him as a future Marc Gasol. I could see Nance's career playing out much like Serge Ibaka if he continues to refine his J and can stay healthy. Randle still has a shot of having a Blake Griffin type career, but, right now, is more on a Draymond Green trajectory if he continues his improvement/growth.
Yeah, that's kind of why I had it as 2A/2B as opposed 2/3. I'm slightly less bullish on Zu than you; I have concerns that Zu can play in space on defense. Gasol is more fleet of foot than I think he get's credit for - and preternaturally brilliant at orchestrating a defense. But Zu is quite young and has shown serious offensive talent and so I understand why anyone would rank him higher. For me, I simply think Nance projects to be a more necessary player in the current NBA; although, I agree that Zu, a currently unrealized-unicorn, would be a demonstrably more important and impactful player than Nance if he improves as we hope.
Last edited by Cutheon on Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:47 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Posts: 7849 Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:47 am Post subject:
Dlo's pre all star performance it should be noted that he spent all of his time being only one running the offense and always telling guys where to be and where to go. That limited his own performance because he was focusing on what was best for the team and not himself individually, which in my book is great sign
I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but I don't understand why a lot of people think Ennis is automatically gone and will get a much better offer from another team. Why? What has he proven? He had a decent stretch for us as a backup PG, but it's a terribly small sample size and it's not like he was out there averaging double digits off the bench, racking up assists, and blowing up in a meaningful way. It was promising and shows he may yet have a long, respectable NBA career ahead of him, but he's still a bust who's been traded 3 times in 3 years until proven otherwise.
Seth Curry got 2 years/$6M last summer, and he was a forgotten man in free agency until Dallas picked him up late. He had a comparable previous season to Ennis, but with double the games played. So, I don't see Ennis getting a contract any bigger than that.
Well that's the point. Lakers could only offer 2.6m and he would be walking away from 3m/year?
Ok, I thought you were saying he'd get something in the $4-5M range. Well if Tyler values that small of a difference (relatively) over the opportunity he was given here (even if it was because we were tanking ), then it is what it is. Guess I can't fault him for taking a few hundred thousand, because that's still a lot of money for a guy who may have been headed to China before this Laker stint.
Joined: 24 Sep 2001 Posts: 8188 Location: Eagle Rock
Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:55 am Post subject:
I think Zubac will be better on D than you think. He is already the best shot blocker/rim protector on the team. His struggle is guarding the pick and roll.
1) He is physically weak now and very underdeveloped because he is only 19. Seems like he works hard, so I anticipate he will become stronger and more agile as time moves on.
2) I think that his great feel for the game and his BBall IQ will help him get the most out of his improved stamina and agility.
3) He is super long, so that will help him eat space out on the perimeter. _________________ R.I.P. Doc Buss
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35812 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:55 am Post subject:
LakerSanity wrote:
Cutheon wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
How would you rank our PF/Center prospects? Between Randle, Zubac, Black, Nance, Robinson if you want to count him, etc.
1. Randle
2A. Nance
2B. Zu
Black/Robinson
As current players at their current abilities, I agree. As prospects based on projected ceilings, however, I go Randle, Zubac and then Nance. I think Zubac has a potential higher ceiling than Nance - its not far fetched to see him as a future Marc Gasol. I could see Nance's career playing out much like Serge Ibaka if he continues to refine his J and can stay healthy. Randle still has a shot of having a Blake Griffin type career, but, right now, is more on a Draymond Green trajectory if he continues his improvement/growth.
Draymond Green is better than Blake Griffin though. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
Many big men with Zub's size/girth have a problem with PnR and defending in space. Even if he leans up and gets stronger, it will be a fundamental problem. That's ok b/c we have interesting small ball options in Jules/Nance,. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
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), then it is what it is. Guess I can't fault him for taking a few hundred thousand, because that's still a lot of money for a guy who may have been headed to China before this Laker stint.
