Our Young Core-Year in Review
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frenchbullcho
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Our Young Core-Year in Review

venturalakersfan wrote:
foshowtime wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Ingram has shown me he has all star potential and is likely our highest valued player.

DLO has shown me similar all star potential, and is easily our 2nd highest valued player.

Jules has certainly (should be clear by now) wiped away any ridiculous fears that he's a bust. He may be on the near-all star trajectory.

JC is pretty much what I thought he'd be.

Nance showed his value on court as a smart defender. I worry about his durability going forward, but he's a big time keeper on this team.

Zubac has showed some flash in his offensive game. The concern remains about his defense (not necessarily rim protecting) in space and in PnR situations. Someone said that he may be going more towards an Enes Kanter (good offensive player, defensive struggle) trajectory, which is still quite a coup for a 32nd pick.

Nwaba is a good guy to keep. Love his life story and is a good reminder that the NBA is a daily grind and that each day should be cherished.

Ennis is an unrestricted FA and the Lakers are capped at 2.6m (due to CBA rules). So if a team offers him 3m, he's likely gone.

Black is likely gone unless we punt and keep his 6m deal.

It's been a really good year (especially post ASG) to evaluate these young players. We have at least 2 studs in the making (DLO/Ingram), a starting level player (Jules), 2 solid rotation players (JC, Nance) and a prospect (Zub). Things are looking well especially if we can add another top 3 pick this summer.

Go Lakers.


Mostly Agree.

However, some difference in my personal opinion are:

1. DLO/BI are much closer. I cant really value one over the other. BI will probably be an overall better player, but DLO has shown the ability to be clutch and to absolutely go off!

2. To me, ZU is next on this list. Kanter will be on the lower end for my expectations. He is already a better rim protector, and if he can get better defensively in space, hes a legit starter. Again, if he hits, we would have our Guard, Wing, and Center positions filled.

3. JR and JC are not busts by any stretch of the imagination and were great picks by our former regime at where they were picked. However, their style of play is the biggest question mark for them. I have seen some improvement in their ability to play defense and play within the offense. However, as long as those aspects stay as concerns, they will hurt the team overall or they will need to be bench players on great teams.

4. Nance. Agree 100%. While he is not the talent that JC or JR are; he makes the team better when he plays. He is the essential heart and soul of a winning team, and rotation player on a winning team.

5. Nwaba/TRob/Tennis: These are the guys that have me mad during the last stretch. They are third stringers at best. They hustled hard these last few games when other teams took their foot off the gas pedal, and they then got confident and played above their heads. Once the level of competition raises, they will regress to their scrub like performances. Of the three, Nwaba is the most valuable due to his defense, and could be a serious rotation player if he develops a jumper. TRob is valuable only as an energy guy deep off the bench, and Ennis is an under control PG off the bench.


Sorry to nitpick, but when the Lakers players have been asked after some games this past season who the one player was that got them fired up and set the tone for them, it wasn't Nance. I love Larry and hope he retires here, but the players look elsewhere for inspiration and for someone to feed off of.

Nance is considered a God here.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:31 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Honestly I feel a lot better about Jules now than I did preseason. He's improved a lot. How much should we extend him for is another question.


I think there's no reason to rush into an extension with him, unless he's willing to sign for an amount that comes across as a bargain for the team. I have no idea what salary range that would be in, but I'm thinking something along the lines of the deal JC signed last summer, and of course you would scale that up a bit based on Jules' higher value, potential, and the fact that he plays a position with less talent across the NBA.

If he's pushing for extra dollars or won't take anything less than "market" (meaning the typical overpaid contracts guys are getting left and right lately) value, do we really have anything to lose from waiting another season and letting him hit restricted free agency? Either he gets better and proves he's worth a big contract, at which point I have no problem paying him, he plays at the same level and we just have the same tough decision to make a year later, or he somehow regresses and we either keep him at a lower price or let him go outright. By watching him play and potentially develop for another season, we're only allowing ourselves to make a more informed decision on him, and that's even more important because of our current salary cap woes. We can't afford to hand out another bad long-term contract.

I don't think we've seen enough, thanks to his lost rookie season, to make a decision on him one way or another right now.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:43 pm    Post subject:

For the young core to take the next step, they all need to be better shooters essentially.

Ingram from 3 and FT line.

DLo is the farthest ahead but he needs to be elite.

Julius needs that 3-pt shot.

I would say Ingram is the farthest behind but has also shown quick improvement.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:21 pm    Post subject:

For me Ingram, Russell, Randle and Clarkson have all been underwhelming. They haven't been terrible. I just expected a bit more from them. I think Nance has been alright considering the limited minutes he gets and also factoring that they seem to see him as a bench player. Zubac has exceeded my expectations but that's mostly because I didn't have any for him. Hopefully next season we see some bigger improvements both individually and as a team.

Side Note: I hope they find a way to keep Nwaba and Ennis.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:27 pm    Post subject:

defense wrote:
For me Ingram, Russell, Randle and Clarkson have all been underwhelming. They haven't been terrible. I just expected a bit more from them. I think Nance has been alright considering the limited minutes he gets and also factoring that they seem to see him as a bench player. Zubac has exceeded my expectations but that's mostly because I didn't have any for him. Hopefully next season we see some bigger improvements both individually and as a team.

Side Note: I hope they find a way to keep Nwaba and Ennis.


Yea I'd give them all C grades. Randle has probably shown the most surprising promise

I think at worst we have
1 all star: either Ingram or Russell
1: borderline all star: probably Russell
1: above average starter: Either Randle or Zubac
That's good. along with good bench pieces in Clarkson/Nance
That's really good drafting in a 3 year span, and we can add another really good upper lotto pick either this year or next.
I'd love to just build organically and not trade any of the young core for players who'll be declining in 4 years ---- we should be legit title contenders in 5 years building organically and w/1 Free Agent signing in that time
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:33 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
defense wrote:
For me Ingram, Russell, Randle and Clarkson have all been underwhelming. They haven't been terrible. I just expected a bit more from them. I think Nance has been alright considering the limited minutes he gets and also factoring that they seem to see him as a bench player. Zubac has exceeded my expectations but that's mostly because I didn't have any for him. Hopefully next season we see some bigger improvements both individually and as a team.

Side Note: I hope they find a way to keep Nwaba and Ennis.


Yea I'd give them all C grades. Randle has probably shown the most surprising promise

I think at worst we have
1 all star: either Ingram or Russell


1: borderline all star: probably Russell
1: above average starter: Either Randle or Zubac
That's good. along with good bench pieces in Clarkson/Nance
That's really good drafting in a 3 year span, and we can add another really good upper lotto pick either this year or next.
I'd love to just build organically and not trade any of the young core for players who'll be declining in 4 years ---- we should be legit title contenders in 5 years building organically and w/1 Free Agent signing in that time


Yea hopefully you're right. I'm hoping for at least 2 all-stars from this group.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:51 am    Post subject: Re: Our Young Core-Year in Review

yinoma2001 wrote:
Ingram has shown me he has all star potential and is likely our highest valued player.

DLO has shown me similar all star potential, and is easily our 2nd highest valued player.

Jules has certainly (should be clear by now) wiped away any ridiculous fears that he's a bust. He may be on the near-all star trajectory.

JC is pretty much what I thought he'd be.

Nance showed his value on court as a smart defender. I worry about his durability going forward, but he's a big time keeper on this team.

Zubac has showed some flash in his offensive game. The concern remains about his defense (not necessarily rim protecting) in space and in PnR situations. Someone said that he may be going more towards an Enes Kanter (good offensive player, defensive struggle) trajectory, which is still quite a coup for a 32nd pick.

Nwaba is a good guy to keep. Love his life story and is a good reminder that the NBA is a daily grind and that each day should be cherished.

Ennis is an unrestricted FA and the Lakers are capped at 2.6m (due to CBA rules). So if a team offers him 3m, he's likely gone.

Black is likely gone unless we punt and keep his 6m deal.

It's been a really good year (especially post ASG) to evaluate these young players. We have at least 2 studs in the making (DLO/Ingram), a starting level player (Jules), 2 solid rotation players (JC, Nance) and a prospect (Zub). Things are looking well especially if we can add another top 3 pick this summer.

Go Lakers.


Defensively, our young core are collectively soft. These guys need to get stronger. It's like a shooting and layup drills when they play against us. We need to changed that identity. Play D or sit.

Ingram - I would give him a C plus. He finished strong. Need to work on his strength and jumpshots. He break my scale with his potential. Lakers need to start building around him already.

DLo - C plus . strength and agility. limited offensive arsenal, need to have floaters and tear drops. Also need to work on his right hand. His net rating in the road is just terrible. Must improved that mindset.

Randle - C plus. Need to work on his shooting and his range. watch a lot of tapes so he can read the plays on both ends. Need some cardio to improve stamina.

Zu - B minus. He develop faster than I antipated. Need to work on his strength and agility. Defensively, he has a work cut out for him on that end. Passing and vision is also a work in progress

Nance - B minus . His 3 ball is coming along but still a work in progress. Work on his shooting like quicker release. work on his lower body and get stronger download.

Clarkson . C plus. Get stronger and stay in front of his man. Just like Jules, need to watch a lot of tapes. Need to have that mindset about passing a good shot for a great shot.

Black - C plus. Work on his lateral agility. Need to work on his midrange. He was able to put a good FT% so a midrange will lengthen his career.

Nwaba - B minus. Very limited but elite athlete. He need to passionately work on his jumpshots, 3 ball, midrange , corner 3s.

Put Lonzo Ball with this lineup and we will be running and gunning like hell. The transition baskets will change the game for us while our young guys still working on Luke offensive sets.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:27 pm    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
I think the team did a disservice to both Clarkson and Russell. While I agree that Russell has definite all-star potential, Russell plateaued a bit this season I think, in part, because of how he was handled and because we focused initially on winning rather than development. I don't think its a coincidence that the vets were shut down around the same time Magic/Pelinka came in. I also think they've played games with him and butted heads with him unnecessarily. Clarkson should have been at PG the whole season (as discussed below), with Russell at the off guard as well. I'm not sure that changes what is asked of Russell, but its clear Russell is better off when he has a score first rather than pass first mentality. In any case, Russell wasn't developed the way he should have been and, so, he didn't improve that much this season as a result.

As for Clarkson, I think he's been messed with too in the sense of the roles he's been asked to play. It's clear to me that, for no other reason than his and this team's development, he should have been a starter. Again, trying to win and creating a bench that revolved around Lou Williams, did nothing to help Clarkson or to help him learn how to run/play in an NBA system. He was made to look worse than he is because of the role he was asked to play. It's too bad. However, at least its been nice to see him growing over the last month since he was put in the starting lineup and asked to play what I think is his best position - PG.

As for Ingram, the force is strong in that one. All about experience and physical maturation. Not concerned about him at all at this point.

Randle I think silenced a lot of criticisms. He's not the player he can be yet, but, as compared to last year, I think he's the player who has grown the most on this team. You are starting to hear the media taking notice of him as well. If he can make a similar jump next year, we'll have quite a player on our hands. Just keep working on stamina and the jumper.

I'm excited to see Zubac (and Ingram as well) to have a full summer of professional NBA training and conditioning. While in great normal person shape, Zubac needs to still get in better NBA shape and pick up some lean mass. I think with a summer of NBA training, not only will he become more of a beast on offense, but I think he'll pick up some quickness that we all agree is much needed on the defensive end.

As for Nance, he's Nance. Consumate role player. I hope he keeps developing his jumper. His ability to hit the J, get a little smarter on defensive rotations, and stay healthy are the only things that, IMO, prevent him from being a starting caliber PF in this league.

Finally, as for Black, Ennis and Nwaba... I've appreciated their contributions, but they are all role players. I'd love to have all of them back - Ennis and Black especially - but they aren't part of this core and they are ultimately replaceable by vet role players once we have a core team that can win games (and attract free agents).


Wow, really good post. Well done LS...
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:48 pm    Post subject:

Only Ingram is untouchable.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:01 pm    Post subject:

DLO: B-

- Like others have said, once he was settled more into his natural role as a scorer first, offense initiator/creator second, he really took offer and looked the part. I'd love to see him come back with a revamped body more suitable for the 2 aka more lean muscle, better speed/agility/burst, and more strength. Not huge transformation but just better in each area. If he played the whole season like he did that final stretch after the benching he'd be closer to an A- so it's not totally his fault. I think he was one of the most underrated players in the NBA this season given how important he was and how poor we played with out him.

Ingram: C+

- Not much to say here other than we saw the flashes of insane talent and then also watched awful play. Clearly he improved big time which is something that should be commended. I want to see him work with Kobe and get that superstar mindset, routine, and confidence down. Like DLO, work on the body and the jump shot. 1,500 a day.

Randle: B-

- Showed major strides in his ability to slow down, make the right play, and play with sustained energy. Still showed lapses in all the above but the feel for what kind of player he can become was on display. His big thing is shooting, the right hand, and becoming a good defender (which he's shown flashes of). Still not sure if he can be some super elite 6th man or very good starter but next year will be huge.

Zubac: A

- No expectations coming into this season. My gut at the draft was he was a throw away pick that we were going to store until we needed him for training camp in 3 years. Boy was I wrong. The kid belong in the NBA and showed moments of everything we'd want in a big man- shooting touch, footwork, soft hands, hook shot, range, good speed, IQ, and post defense. He's on his way to becoming a Marc Gasol style player and dare I say, level player. he did everything asked of him this year including improving his body during the season which is never easy.

JC: C+

- He's a 6th man of the year guy. I love him in that role. He can lead a bench and play big mins with starters and close games. We saw a little bit more of rookie JC than sophomore, but now that Lou is gone, hopefully the shoot at all costs mentality will be gone. He'd be an B+ if he could be a good defender.

Nance: B-

- Showed more than enough to know we have that role player that every team and every coach covets. Guys like Pop and Phil would have drooled over him. Good all around game but I want to see him become and elite defender off the bench and much much much more confident and effective shooter.

Black, Ennis, Nwaba: I like all in small roles but could understand why they'd all be back, all be gone, or some balance. Black is a good back up center but I think Zu and Ju will be eating those mins. Ennis showed why he was a lotto pick and I think as a 3rd string PG, I'd be happy with him. Nwaba is a good end of bench guy who can guard 3 positions and will play his ass off.

All in all, I feel like they showed serious potential going forward. We just need the right pieces around them to make this a complete picture. As much as I hate Lavar, Ball would be such a terrific piece. All those guys would find so much comfort in their natural positions.

I'm pleased.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:18 am    Post subject:

I'd give Ennis 14M 3 yrs 4th team option. I like him a lot
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:56 am    Post subject:

durden-tyler wrote:
Think the front office will do a big mistake by trading our young players for allstars who are not franchise players...
We should be patient another season !



No, but I see them trading the pick along Deng for one!
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:04 am    Post subject:

lakerican wrote:
durden-tyler wrote:
Think the front office will do a big mistake by trading our young players for allstars who are not franchise players...
We should be patient another season !



No, but I see them trading the pick along Deng for one! 0:-)


JC Deng and Fultz for PG?
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:11 am    Post subject:

watchME wrote:
I'd give Ennis 14M 3 yrs 4th team option. I like him a lot


You wouldn't, because you can't.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:21 am    Post subject: Re: Our Young Core-Year in Review

yinoma2001 wrote:
Ingram has shown me he has all star potential and is likely our highest valued player.

DLO has shown me similar all star potential, and is easily our 2nd highest valued player.

Jules has certainly (should be clear by now) wiped away any ridiculous fears that he's a bust. He may be on the near-all star trajectory.

JC is pretty much what I thought he'd be.

Nance showed his value on court as a smart defender. I worry about his durability going forward, but he's a big time keeper on this team.

Zubac has showed some flash in his offensive game. The concern remains about his defense (not necessarily rim protecting) in space and in PnR situations. Someone said that he may be going more towards an Enes Kanter (good offensive player, defensive struggle) trajectory, which is still quite a coup for a 32nd pick.

Nwaba is a good guy to keep. Love his life story and is a good reminder that the NBA is a daily grind and that each day should be cherished.

Ennis is an unrestricted FA and the Lakers are capped at 2.6m (due to CBA rules). So if a team offers him 3m, he's likely gone.

Black is likely gone unless we punt and keep his 6m deal.

It's been a really good year (especially post ASG) to evaluate these young players. We have at least 2 studs in the making (DLO/Ingram), a starting level player (Jules), 2 solid rotation players (JC, Nance) and a prospect (Zub). Things are looking well especially if we can add another top 3 pick this summer.

Go Lakers.


Another good thread Yinoma, kudos.

I agree Ingram and Russell are in their own tier. I'm really excited to see Russell's development in a situation where the team is more competitive. One can debate if it should be this way, but tanking seems to drain his battery and giving him talent to work with is going to really start to show the type of player we have. Ingram's two way potential is great, but I'm astonished at his handle and court awareness for his size. To me that puts him in a potential superstar range. If Bryant can teach him angles and fundamental attacking principles, with that stride and reach....... look out.

Randle's far from a bust but still kind of an enigma to me. His lack of defensive awareness and shooting make him a difficult to plug into a unit that's greater than the sum. If he picks up those things he's a stud, if not a pretty good rotation player. That's why I think it's best for both he and LA to hold off with the extension.

Agree on Nance, JC and Nwaba. I actually thing David has value to the roster that goes beyond his direct on court impact. Black's deal guarantees a few days after free agency opens and he's going to be an asset. Either LA could see what materializes for themselves before making a decision on him (great punt contract if you're going for '18), or even deal him. There's value there.

Zu may be one of our most interesting guys because while he's a specialist by trait because his defensive foot speed in space will always be limited but his size, he's got enough skill and potential in key areas that reasonable improvement there could make him a significant chess piece for a playoff team.

Edit: I'm not sure Ennis has earned his way to backup money just yet. I think $2.6 may be enough if LA wants to keep him, especially if he thinks he has more to show and doesn't want to lock in his value at this point. The real trick will be how that is impacted by LA shopping timeline. In other words I think it's more about timing than $ footprint.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:05 pm    Post subject:

better thread than that other thread about signing DRose
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