Phil Having a Rough Day
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ocho
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:52 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
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22 wrote:
I understand we can dump contracts like Deng and the price is Melo, but unless we're buying him out I say no thanks. His style of play is completely counter productive to what we want to do. Bring in Melo here and say goodbye to ball movement


I'm not so sure about that. He led a team to 54 wins before everything fell apart around him in NY. And if it doesn't work out it's only 2 years. You can stretch or let expire. Trading him is easier as an expiring after a year. And you get out of THREE years of paying Deng. Make no mistake, I have my reservations about him too, but that seems like a win-win to me.


He's not remotely close to that same player. I'm with @22 on this.


Maybe so. Is he worse than Jordan Clarkson? I don't think so. And you get out of the Deng deal and get cap relief sooner. The commitment is short term. If he finds his mojo back you could be back in the playoffs. If it's a disaster just stretch his final year. It probably would land somewhere in the middle, in which case you've added a good player for not much at all, and you've dumped your worst contract in the process. If Melo decides to opt out of the last year of the deal? You've just traded $56M for $27M.
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ocho
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:07 pm    Post subject:

Woj on the Porzingis walkout.

Quote:
As Jackson publicly pushed for Carmelo Anthony to waive his no-trade clause and accept a move out of New York on Friday and disparaged coach Jeff Hornacekís connectivity to the locker room, a bigger issue emerged: Kristaps Porzingis made a stand about the unprofessionalism and routine chaos that has lorded over his work environment.

Porzingis passed on the exit interviews, as ESPNís Ian Begley first reported, and league sources say Porzingis is planning a long trip back to Latvia that may not include a return to New York until closer to the start of training camp.

Porzingis isnít alone. Players are privately fuming that they want no part of the organizationís summer slate of triangle offense regimen at the teamís suburban New York practice facility, league sources told The Vertical. In reality, thereís an open rebellion to the triangle Ė for the offense itself, and by extension, the discord and dysfunction that its implementation has burdened upon everyone.



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KeepItRealOrElse
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:10 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
ocho wrote:
22 wrote:
I understand we can dump contracts like Deng and the price is Melo, but unless we're buying him out I say no thanks. His style of play is completely counter productive to what we want to do. Bring in Melo here and say goodbye to ball movement


I'm not so sure about that. He led a team to 54 wins before everything fell apart around him in NY. And if it doesn't work out it's only 2 years. You can stretch or let expire. Trading him is easier as an expiring after a year. And you get out of THREE years of paying Deng. Make no mistake, I have my reservations about him too, but that seems like a win-win to me.


He's not remotely close to that same player. I'm with @22 on this.


Maybe so. Is he worse than Jordan Clarkson? I don't think so. And you get out of the Deng deal and get cap relief sooner. The commitment is short term. If he finds his mojo back you could be back in the playoffs. If it's a disaster just stretch his final year. It probably would land somewhere in the middle, in which case you've added a good player for not much at all, and you've dumped your worst contract in the process. If Melo decides to opt out of the last year of the deal? You've just traded $56M for $27M.


The logic w/ the contracts is astute and makes it intriguing. But I still can't get over how much I think Carmelo would stagnate the ball...... I want to, but I can't get over that
The next two years are crucial developmental years for Dlo and Ingram - they should probably be in an offense that's ideal and lets them do their thing
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tox
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:37 pm    Post subject:

Chicago: Wade out, Melo in
Lakers: Clarkson, Deng, #28 out, Wade in
Knicks: Melo out, Clarkson, Deng, #28 in.

Why Chicago does it? They were +2.3 without Wade, they were -2.5 with Wade. Butler + Mirotic were a killer duo all season, and Melo can do what Mirotic does and some. You can argue the same issues with Wade (old, high usage, no defense) apply to Melo, but it's different when that's coming from the 4 instead of the 2. And frankly Wade and Butler have way too much overlap. Medium risk, medium reward. Make a playoff push in 2018, and if things blow up, Melo is an expiring in 2019 (or he's opted out) and you trade Butler for spare parts (or reload around him). Basically, it fits their timeline fine

Why Knicks do it? Ditch Melo, get some young talent (Clarkson), and a pick. Lakers can offer the Denver 2018 2nd rounder as sweetener. Taking Deng is price of business, but they're committed to a rebuild so it'll hurt less.

Why Lakers do it? Ditch their worst contract, and frankly they can afford to lose Clarkson. Wade is an expiring, and he might be the all-star that will, if there is a merciful God in this world, prevent poor Jeanie from being heartbroken. #28 (+ 2nd rounder) is price of business, but again they can afford to lose the pick as they will be either adding a similar pick (#33) or another lotto pick this summer anyways.

This makes a lot of sense for all parties IMO.
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GoldenThroat
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:44 pm    Post subject:

Head of the Player's Association has lodged a complaint about Phil's comments re: Melo. (and she's 100% right)


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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:04 pm    Post subject:

James Dolan is a genius....nobody is asking for him to resign, Phil is taking all the heat, which is why he is being kept on for the life of the contract. I think if the players are openly rebelling against a particular system, you have a huge problem.
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cathy78
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:48 pm    Post subject:

I still don't think that Melo or Wade are a good thing to have around those young guys. It just seems to me that they can spoil young persons pretty bad, with questionable work ethic, selfishness and their weird egos. I don't think they fit in the culture Luke wants to build.
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tox
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:53 pm    Post subject:

cathy78 wrote:
I still don't think that Melo or Wade are a good thing to have around those young guys. It just seems to me that they can spoil young persons pretty bad, with questionable work ethic, selfishness and their weird egos. I don't think they fit in the culture Luke wants to build.
I don't like Wade either, but realistically he'd be here for about 3 months and then you likely buy him out so he can go to a contender. Honestly, you could buy him out after the trade and call it a day. The key is ditching Deng's contract for an expiring, with Clarkson (and maybe #28, future 2nd) being the cost of trade.
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ocho
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:59 pm    Post subject:

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James Dolan is a genius....nobody is asking for him to resign


You should visit a Knicks site sometime.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:55 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Head of the Player's Association has lodged a complaint about Phil's comments re: Melo. (and she's 100% right)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9f9t0RUwAAy0QB.jpg

After reading his books, I always saw Phil in a different light. Dude is a snake
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:21 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
James Dolan is a genius....nobody is asking for him to resign, Phil is taking all the heat, which is why he is being kept on for the life of the contract. I think if the players are openly rebelling against a particular system, you have a huge problem.

If James Dolan were a genius, he'd hire someone who could competently run the franchise.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:21 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Head of the Player's Association has lodged a complaint about Phil's comments re: Melo. (and she's 100% right)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9f9t0RUwAAy0QB.jpg


perhaps they can offer to void his contract as recompense....
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:09 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
I actually think there's a decent chance that Melo ends up a Laker, although Phil's relationship w/Jeanie complicates that.


Clarkson and Deng for Melo is something that could intrigue both sides.


Damn. Now that's something to consider.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:10 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
ocho wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
I actually think there's a decent chance that Melo ends up a Laker, although Phil's relationship w/Jeanie complicates that.


Clarkson and Deng for Melo is something that could intrigue both sides.


That's the basic framework of a deal that I was thinking as well.

They'd ask for Randle, Russell, Ingram, or pick if we retain it.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:19 am    Post subject:

Raijin wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
ocho wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
I actually think there's a decent chance that Melo ends up a Laker, although Phil's relationship w/Jeanie complicates that.


Clarkson and Deng for Melo is something that could intrigue both sides.


That's the basic framework of a deal that I was thinking as well.

They'd ask for Randle, Russell, Ingram, or pick if we retain it.


Then we hang up on him.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:20 am    Post subject:

Next up... D.Rose

ďDerrick has expressed hopes coming back. We have some options. Derrick is a scoring guard first and foremost, organizing, leading, stuff like that is not particularly his strength. "

Phil is def losing it
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:41 am    Post subject:

KBH wrote:
Raijin wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
ocho wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
I actually think there's a decent chance that Melo ends up a Laker, although Phil's relationship w/Jeanie complicates that.


Clarkson and Deng for Melo is something that could intrigue both sides.


That's the basic framework of a deal that I was thinking as well.

They'd ask for Randle, Russell, Ingram, or pick if we retain it.


Then we hang up on him.


Laugh first, then hang up.
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cathy78
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:13 am    Post subject:

Did Phil eat some easter eggs from last year? His stomach seems quite upset...

tox wrote:
cathy78 wrote:
I still don't think that Melo or Wade are a good thing to have around those young guys. It just seems to me that they can spoil young persons pretty bad, with questionable work ethic, selfishness and their weird egos. I don't think they fit in the culture Luke wants to build.
I don't like Wade either, but realistically he'd be here for about 3 months and then you likely buy him out so he can go to a contender. Honestly, you could buy him out after the trade and call it a day. The key is ditching Deng's contract for an expiring, with Clarkson (and maybe #28, future 2nd) being the cost of trade.

As long as Pelinka and Magic see this trade the same way and not just to get a big name broken "superstar" here to mess up the locker room I could accept it. Actually I like Wade better than Melo...

I am still scared that Magic wants some big name at any costs really fast.
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USCandLakers
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:14 am    Post subject:

cathy78 wrote:
I still don't think that Melo or Wade are a good thing to have around those young guys. It just seems to me that they can spoil young persons pretty bad, with questionable work ethic, selfishness and their weird egos. I don't think they fit in the culture Luke wants to build.


This is exactly what's going on in NY. Melo is poison. Dude is leading an open rebellion. Selfish, lazy play aside, I want him nowhere near our young players.
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:23 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
Quote:
James Dolan is a genius....nobody is asking for him to resign


You should visit a Knicks site sometime.


He's a genius in the sense that the heat was on him and he hired the perfect fall guy. He bought himself a lot of time considering he gave Phil a 5 year contract which he intends to see thru it.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:38 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
James Dolan is a genius....nobody is asking for him to resign


You should visit a Knicks site sometime.


He's a genius in the sense that the heat was on him and he hired the perfect fall guy. He bought himself a lot of time considering he gave Phil a 5 year contract which he intends to see thru it.
Or he could hire someone competent...
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GoldenThroat
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:55 pm    Post subject:

USCandLakers wrote:
cathy78 wrote:
I still don't think that Melo or Wade are a good thing to have around those young guys. It just seems to me that they can spoil young persons pretty bad, with questionable work ethic, selfishness and their weird egos. I don't think they fit in the culture Luke wants to build.


This is exactly what's going on in NY. Melo is poison. Dude is leading an open rebellion. Selfish, lazy play aside, I want him nowhere near our young players.


Phil is the one who poisoned the well there, not Melo. This whole situation was really easy to foresee.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:02 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
USCandLakers wrote:
cathy78 wrote:
I still don't think that Melo or Wade are a good thing to have around those young guys. It just seems to me that they can spoil young persons pretty bad, with questionable work ethic, selfishness and their weird egos. I don't think they fit in the culture Luke wants to build.


This is exactly what's going on in NY. Melo is poison. Dude is leading an open rebellion. Selfish, lazy play aside, I want him nowhere near our young players.


Phil is the one who poisoned the well there, not Melo. This whole situation was really easy to foresee.

Would you say that Melo and Wade are good persons to have around and build a culture?
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ocho
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:13 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
James Dolan is a genius....nobody is asking for him to resign


You should visit a Knicks site sometime.


He's a genius in the sense that the heat was on him and he hired the perfect fall guy. He bought himself a lot of time considering he gave Phil a 5 year contract which he intends to see thru it.


He'd be a genius if this somehow absolved him of blame in the eyes of the fans and the league, but that is not the case.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:20 pm    Post subject:

cathy78 wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
USCandLakers wrote:
cathy78 wrote:
I still don't think that Melo or Wade are a good thing to have around those young guys. It just seems to me that they can spoil young persons pretty bad, with questionable work ethic, selfishness and their weird egos. I don't think they fit in the culture Luke wants to build.


This is exactly what's going on in NY. Melo is poison. Dude is leading an open rebellion. Selfish, lazy play aside, I want him nowhere near our young players.


Phil is the one who poisoned the well there, not Melo. This whole situation was really easy to foresee.

Would you say that Melo and Wade are good persons to have around and build a culture?


I don't think it's that cut and dry. I certainly don't think that Melo's a cancer. Phil's been taking shots at him for quite some time now. Doesn't make Melo a bad guy because he claps back. There's a reason why his teammates are taking his side. He doesn't have a rep as a bad teammate.

That said, obviously Melo's style of play is antithetical to what Luke is looking to build, although there's value in having a #1 scorer that pushes guys like Russell, Ingram, & Randle into more appropriate roles at this stage of their development. But I wouldn't trade for Melo unless you could shed Deng or Mozgov in the process.
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