D'Antoni- the Los Angeles thing we didn't have a chance
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Omar Little
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:08 pm    Post subject:

rwongega wrote:
Runway8 wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Unlike elite coaches he has not shown he can get a wing/ISO star to play his system and buy in.

He needs a specific MVP level point guard to get it done.

When he has that he is outstanding (PHX HOU)
When he does not have that he is poor/crap (NY/LA)

I rate Pop, Carlisle, Spo, Bud, Kerr much higher.
I'm much happier with Luke than MDA.

Good for MDA though. Seems he has learned from some mistakes and also become sharper as most coaches do when they hit their 60s.


Phil Jackson used scrubs for point guards on all his titles because he had the luxury of top 5 talents of ALL TIME on his roster. If not scrubs, over the hill has beens like Ron Harper and B. Shaw. So that's like saying PJ is not on MDA's level because he has never gotten an elite point guard to buy into his system.

An elite wing like the MJs, the Kobes, the Wades, the Lebrons... will get their rings. And I just think it's a convenient argument to all of a sudden not consider Harden a wing. James Harden was a shooting guard, and he bought into the system. Isn't that what you're saying MDA can't do? Isn't Harden buying in? MDA can do more with subpar rosters than PJ can.

By ELITE ISO I take it you're highlighting Carmelo Anthony. You think Pop and PJ can win a title with Carmelo as the guy? Did he buy into Hornacek's triangle? You think he's on MJ, Kobe, Lebron level? Neither is Harden, and he's probably going to fall short with Harden too, but that's not about coaching, that's about not being fortunate enough to coach THE ALL TIME GREATEST, not just regular super stars like Melo and Harden. Yeah he had Kobe, but that wasn't really THE KOBE, and Kobe wore #8 because of Dantoni when he was a kid in Italy. A story that would have been hammered home if we had success, but because we didn't, then the narrative became Kobe didn't buy it. Hog wash.


MJ didn't and hasn't won squat when PJ was not around. Can MDA do more with subpar rosters than PJ? Hardly. Even with a much deeper and talented roster in Phoenix, PJ and a crew where Kwame Brown and Smush Parker started gave them fits.


That sounds compelling until you notice he also had the best player in the league...
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Goldenwest
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:49 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
It didn't work because MDA couldn't get the most out of his players and refused to adapt to their strengths. Nash's injury filled season was a convenient excuse. He still had a load of talent with Kobe, Dwight, Pau, and a Bench of Jamison, Metta, Meeks, Blake; the team totally under-performed and imploded. That's largely on the coach. (That team was tailor made for Phil Jackson by the way).

Now he's got a team more to his style and they're in the playoffs. Good for him and the rockets. 2012 was still a terrible paring of coach and team.


Go look up ho many games Nash, Dwight, Kobe and Pau played together and then get back to us about it.


Who is us? are there more than one of you using that username? anyway, i don't need to look it up, i followed and remember what went on that year. MDA misusing Pau, alienating Dwight, and pissing off Kobe and Jamison to the point where the players staged an un-official mutiny and willed their way to the playoffs after being in danger of going from a probable finals team to a lottery team. Yeah, great coaching that year. I'll give MDA his due, he finally got the right personnel to get to the playoffs again. But i hate it when people try to lay 2012 on the players or overemphasize injuries in order to make MDA look like a better coach than he is. It was a terrible pairing of coach and team that year.
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MJST
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:57 pm    Post subject:

He didn't alienate Dwight.

Dwight was the one who refused to pick and roll cause he was scared of Shaq calling him one dimensional again. He's the one who halfed pick and roll so bad he made STEVE NASH AS A TEAMMATE get pissed at him and blew up on him in the Miami game. Dwight alienated himself.
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rwongega
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:28 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
rwongega wrote:
Runway8 wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Unlike elite coaches he has not shown he can get a wing/ISO star to play his system and buy in.

He needs a specific MVP level point guard to get it done.

When he has that he is outstanding (PHX HOU)
When he does not have that he is poor/crap (NY/LA)

I rate Pop, Carlisle, Spo, Bud, Kerr much higher.
I'm much happier with Luke than MDA.

Good for MDA though. Seems he has learned from some mistakes and also become sharper as most coaches do when they hit their 60s.


Phil Jackson used scrubs for point guards on all his titles because he had the luxury of top 5 talents of ALL TIME on his roster. If not scrubs, over the hill has beens like Ron Harper and B. Shaw. So that's like saying PJ is not on MDA's level because he has never gotten an elite point guard to buy into his system.

An elite wing like the MJs, the Kobes, the Wades, the Lebrons... will get their rings. And I just think it's a convenient argument to all of a sudden not consider Harden a wing. James Harden was a shooting guard, and he bought into the system. Isn't that what you're saying MDA can't do? Isn't Harden buying in? MDA can do more with subpar rosters than PJ can.

By ELITE ISO I take it you're highlighting Carmelo Anthony. You think Pop and PJ can win a title with Carmelo as the guy? Did he buy into Hornacek's triangle? You think he's on MJ, Kobe, Lebron level? Neither is Harden, and he's probably going to fall short with Harden too, but that's not about coaching, that's about not being fortunate enough to coach THE ALL TIME GREATEST, not just regular super stars like Melo and Harden. Yeah he had Kobe, but that wasn't really THE KOBE, and Kobe wore #8 because of Dantoni when he was a kid in Italy. A story that would have been hammered home if we had success, but because we didn't, then the narrative became Kobe didn't buy it. Hog wash.


MJ didn't and hasn't won squat when PJ was not around. Can MDA do more with subpar rosters than PJ? Hardly. Even with a much deeper and talented roster in Phoenix, PJ and a crew where Kwame Brown and Smush Parker started gave them fits.


That sounds compelling until you notice he also had the best player in the league...


In case I missed something, basketball is a team game. One outlier on a team, no matter how good != a talent deep team with an MVP player.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:42 am    Post subject:

Lame how a post about DAntoni evolves into Phil Jackson.
I gotta hand it to some.
Obsession runs deep.

FWIW Pippen was never a top 2 or 3 player in the league or a dominant scorer. He was a great two way player but also with him as the best player those Bulls teams won quite a bit and were in the playoffs. I believe they went quite deep in the playoffs when MJ was playing baseball. PJ has won with every kind of talent and ego. It wasn't specific to one position. When the teams best player was a post up guy like Shaq he won. He won with Kobe as the man. Jordan. Even Pippen the team played great around him. Now take a look at those players without him. How much they won. In contrast Harden had a MVP type of year two years ago and Houston won just as many games. Dwight was injured most of that year, people forget that. Let's see if Houston even gets to the WCF which is where they were just two years ago. The Rockets have done great with MDA but let's see if they win with a great player as a MVP which is what great coaches get out of great MVP level players. MDA has a long way to go be seen as elite as some view him on this board.
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BobbyB
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:06 am    Post subject:

Until D'antoni wins a ring he will never be considered a good coach. That is just the thought process of many fans...

And even if he wins. It will be more along the line of Harden being the best player ever and Jeff Bzdelik was the greatest defensive coach.

He has just been soured by media. Similar to KOBE until he won without Shaq...Hes an easy target.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:07 am    Post subject:

And I'll just make it clear...

D'antoni is an elite coach in the NBA....
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BobbyB
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:08 am    Post subject:

Not so, says San Antonio Spurs coach Gregg Popovich, who blamed the media for the guff D'Antoni gets about his teams' defense, or lack thereof.
"I think in this business, it's a small fraternity [in the press] and once you get a reputation for something, it pretty much sticks," Popovich said before the Lakers played the Spurs on Wednesday. "It doesn't matter what you do about it. I think Mike could probably do defensive drills all day long and somebody would still get after him for not caring about defense."

"He's probably by now stopped trying to convince people he cares about defense because he's not an idiot," Popovich said. "He knows you have to play defense. People act like he's never heard of the word, doesn't know how to spell it, and nothing could be farther from the truth. But he's wasting his time trying to convince all you guys that he cares about defense because it’s a better story the other way."


Both quotes by the GOAT POPOVICH
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governator
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:16 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Lame how a post about DAntoni evolves into Phil Jackson.
I gotta hand it to some.
Obsession runs deep.

FWIW Pippen was never a top 2 or 3 player in the league or a dominant scorer. He was a great two way player but also with him as the best player those Bulls teams won quite a bit and were in the playoffs. I believe they went quite deep in the playoffs when MJ was playing baseball. PJ has won with every kind of talent and ego. It wasn't specific to one position. When the teams best player was a post up guy like Shaq he won. He won with Kobe as the man. Jordan. Even Pippen the team played great around him. Now take a look at those players without him. How much they won. In contrast Harden had a MVP type of year two years ago and Houston won just as many games. Dwight was injured most of that year, people forget that. Let's see if Houston even gets to the WCF which is where they were just two years ago. The Rockets have done great with MDA but let's see if they win with a great player as a MVP which is what great coaches get out of great MVP level players. MDA has a long way to go be seen as elite as some view him on this board.


Good debate, was prime Pippen a top 3 players (in the Malone, Olajuwon, Barkley, young Shaq era)
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