Rank Our Young Core (Trade Asset-Wise)
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Wino
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:20 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
crucifixion wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
If the pick, Ingram, then DLO is the order, would the Pacers really settle for the 3rd best asset and let the Lakers keep the draft pick AND Ingram?


Nope. That's why we've been saying Bird is going to be asking for way too much, especially given past negotiations with him on JO.

If we get the pick and we value Ingram the most, then the deal will probably be top 3, Dlo, and Julius as a starting point.


Way too costly. You would trade all 3 for PG13? I wouldn't.


No offense but if you have to gut your team to get one player, that player isn't going to want to play here and will likely leave ASAP. I would NEVER trade for guys, who can turn around and leave like Howard did, ever again.

Let PG13 come here as a FA. If Bird wants to keep from losing him for nothing, he needs to do an easy trade for us. I would give him Randle and the 2nd pick and I am being generous. That would be contingent on PG13 agreeing to a multiyear contract. PERIOD!!!
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:05 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Disgruntled stars in the last year of their deal have been traded for one prime asset and some ancillary ones almost without exception.

But again, as a 25 win team, I really don't see the point of making any deal the Bird would be interested. Great, we have PG now, at the expense of either a Top 3 pick, Ingram, or Russell + change.

Now what?


I am all in on the plan to try to be that young team knocking at the door of the playoffs next season (keep our youth, make some small moves where needed, clear some cap space where possible), and then go all in on the summer of 2018 to kick the playoff door open in the following season.

I thing growth and development alone could add 5-10 wins next season, and 3-6 more just with roster continuity.....that puts us at 35-43 wins.


I'm ever the optimist, but I'd subtract 5-8 wins for not having Nick & Lou.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:13 am    Post subject:

tox wrote:
adkindo wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Disgruntled stars in the last year of their deal have been traded for one prime asset and some ancillary ones almost without exception.

But again, as a 25 win team, I really don't see the point of making any deal the Bird would be interested. Great, we have PG now, at the expense of either a Top 3 pick, Ingram, or Russell + change.

Now what?


I am all in on the plan to try to be that young team knocking at the door of the playoffs next season (keep our youth, make some small moves where needed, clear some cap space where possible), and then go all in on the summer of 2018 to kick the playoff door open in the following season.

I thing growth and development alone could add 5-10 wins next season, and 3-6 more just with roster continuity.....that puts us at 35-43 wins.


I'm ever the optimist, but I'd subtract 5-8 wins for not having Nick & Lou.

Depends on what we do with the cap space. With smart spending, you can add bargain players that makes a difference. Look at Seth Curry, James Johnson, Joe Johnson, Dedmon, Nene, Ian Clark just off the top of my head from this past free agent crop.

Also having Nick come back on a 1y 8-10M deal might not be the worse thing in the world, if he is interested.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:30 am    Post subject:

dcarter4kobe wrote:
tox wrote:
adkindo wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Disgruntled stars in the last year of their deal have been traded for one prime asset and some ancillary ones almost without exception.

But again, as a 25 win team, I really don't see the point of making any deal the Bird would be interested. Great, we have PG now, at the expense of either a Top 3 pick, Ingram, or Russell + change.

Now what?


I am all in on the plan to try to be that young team knocking at the door of the playoffs next season (keep our youth, make some small moves where needed, clear some cap space where possible), and then go all in on the summer of 2018 to kick the playoff door open in the following season.

I thing growth and development alone could add 5-10 wins next season, and 3-6 more just with roster continuity.....that puts us at 35-43 wins.


I'm ever the optimist, but I'd subtract 5-8 wins for not having Nick & Lou.

Depends on what we do with the cap space. With smart spending, you can add bargain players that makes a difference. Look at Seth Curry, James Johnson, Joe Johnson, Dedmon, Nene, Ian Clark just off the top of my head from this past free agent crop.

Also having Nick come back on a 1y 8-10M deal might not be the worse thing in the world, if he is interested.

Nick's gone. I like Ian Clark as his replacement... Nick was the worst defender in the league according to GT's pod, and Clark is pretty good on that end. Clark should be cheap too. So I agree, if we can find the right guys to replace them, the drop off will be smaller than 5-8 wins.

Would really love Ball/Fultz to pair with Russell in the starting backcourt, get Clark as our bench 2, and then have someone cheap (Ennis?) play spot minutes. That would probably make up for Lou & Nick's absence nicely.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:38 am    Post subject:

tox wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
tox wrote:
adkindo wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Disgruntled stars in the last year of their deal have been traded for one prime asset and some ancillary ones almost without exception.

But again, as a 25 win team, I really don't see the point of making any deal the Bird would be interested. Great, we have PG now, at the expense of either a Top 3 pick, Ingram, or Russell + change.

Now what?


I am all in on the plan to try to be that young team knocking at the door of the playoffs next season (keep our youth, make some small moves where needed, clear some cap space where possible), and then go all in on the summer of 2018 to kick the playoff door open in the following season.

I thing growth and development alone could add 5-10 wins next season, and 3-6 more just with roster continuity.....that puts us at 35-43 wins.


I'm ever the optimist, but I'd subtract 5-8 wins for not having Nick & Lou.

Depends on what we do with the cap space. With smart spending, you can add bargain players that makes a difference. Look at Seth Curry, James Johnson, Joe Johnson, Dedmon, Nene, Ian Clark just off the top of my head from this past free agent crop.

Also having Nick come back on a 1y 8-10M deal might not be the worse thing in the world, if he is interested.

Nick's gone. I like Ian Clark as his replacement... Nick was the worst defender in the league according to GT's pod, and Clark is pretty good on that end. Clark should be cheap too. So I agree, if we can find the right guys to replace them, the drop off will be smaller than 5-8 wins.

Would really love Ball/Fultz to pair with Russell in the starting backcourt, get Clark as our bench 2, and then have someone cheap (Ennis?) play spot minutes. That would probably make up for Lou & Nick's absence nicely.


Ian Clark is only 6'3"....I really do not like small SG's.....think Justin Holiday will be more expensive? rather have him.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:17 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:

Ian Clark is only 6'3"....I really do not like small SG's.....think Justin Holiday will be more expensive? rather have him.

I hear you, but his defensive #s are ridiculous.
Quote:

83rd %ile defending PnR
71st %ile defending spot up shooting
94th %ile defending off screens
91st %ile defending shots off the dribble
97th %ile defending jump shots
91st %ile defending mid range
98th %ile defending 3ís (opponents shooting 23.8% against him from 3 this year)
He was poor defending drives (19th %ile), but thatís about the only blemish I found in his profile.

From the homie Cranjis on twitter.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:22 pm    Post subject:

I'm a big Ian Clark fan. Can he play combo guard or is he an undersized SG?
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2 Max Scenarios:

-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:33 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
adkindo wrote:

Ian Clark is only 6'3"....I really do not like small SG's.....think Justin Holiday will be more expensive? rather have him.

I hear you, but his defensive #s are ridiculous.
Quote:

83rd %ile defending PnR
71st %ile defending spot up shooting
94th %ile defending off screens
91st %ile defending shots off the dribble
97th %ile defending jump shots
91st %ile defending mid range
98th %ile defending 3ís (opponents shooting 23.8% against him from 3 this year)
He was poor defending drives (19th %ile), but thatís about the only blemish I found in his profile.

From the homie Cranjis on twitter.


yeah, those are aight....
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:34 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
I'm a big Ian Clark fan. Can he play combo guard or is he an undersized SG?


what salary number are we thinking with Clark....he will want 3-4 years
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:51 pm    Post subject:

nash wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
This is really a measure of value to other teams and perception, so I think our trade assets are:

1) #1 pick
2) #2 pick
3) #3 pick
4) Brandon Ingram
5) D'Angelo Russell
6) Ivica Zubac
7) Larry Nance
8) Julius Randle
9) Jordan Clarkson

Mind you, Randle's about to get paid, and Clarkson already has been.


You nailed it


After Russell being fifth and Clarkson last, I kind of think they're all in flux; dependent on the other team's need or preference. I include the 28th pick in that.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:53 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I'm a big Ian Clark fan. Can he play combo guard or is he an undersized SG?


what salary number are we thinking with Clark....he will want 3-4 years


Really not sure. I think it can be as low as 4m/year and as high as 9m/year.
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2 Max Scenarios:

-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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tox
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:04 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
I'm a big Ian Clark fan. Can he play combo guard or is he an undersized SG?

Undersized SG I think, though he has some playmaking capability. My opinion is mostly recycled from guys I respect on twitter, though, so I can't speak firsthand to it.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:57 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
tox wrote:
adkindo wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Disgruntled stars in the last year of their deal have been traded for one prime asset and some ancillary ones almost without exception.

But again, as a 25 win team, I really don't see the point of making any deal the Bird would be interested. Great, we have PG now, at the expense of either a Top 3 pick, Ingram, or Russell + change.

Now what?


I am all in on the plan to try to be that young team knocking at the door of the playoffs next season (keep our youth, make some small moves where needed, clear some cap space where possible), and then go all in on the summer of 2018 to kick the playoff door open in the following season.

I thing growth and development alone could add 5-10 wins next season, and 3-6 more just with roster continuity.....that puts us at 35-43 wins.


I'm ever the optimist, but I'd subtract 5-8 wins for not having Nick & Lou.

Depends on what we do with the cap space. With smart spending, you can add bargain players that makes a difference. Look at Seth Curry, James Johnson, Joe Johnson, Dedmon, Nene, Ian Clark just off the top of my head from this past free agent crop.

Also having Nick come back on a 1y 8-10M deal might not be the worse thing in the world, if he is interested.

Nick's gone. I like Ian Clark as his replacement... Nick was the worst defender in the league according to GT's pod, and Clark is pretty good on that end. Clark should be cheap too. So I agree, if we can find the right guys to replace them, the drop off will be smaller than 5-8 wins.

Would really love Ball/Fultz to pair with Russell in the starting backcourt, get Clark as our bench 2, and then have someone cheap (Ennis?) play spot minutes. That would probably make up for Lou & Nick's absence nicely.


Will Clark be cheap though? Rotation players on championship teams tend to get paid.

And yea, with our two best shooters from this past season off the roster it's hard to see the Lakers improving dramatically. The offense will take a hit and without more defensive talent it's hard to see that improving much either. Maybe Randle will make a leap since he's playing for an extension but I don't know how much of a difference that will make.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:19 am    Post subject:

Wino wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
crucifixion wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
If the pick, Ingram, then DLO is the order, would the Pacers really settle for the 3rd best asset and let the Lakers keep the draft pick AND Ingram?


Nope. That's why we've been saying Bird is going to be asking for way too much, especially given past negotiations with him on JO.

If we get the pick and we value Ingram the most, then the deal will probably be top 3, Dlo, and Julius as a starting point.


Way too costly. You would trade all 3 for PG13? I wouldn't.


No offense but if you have to gut your team to get one player, that player isn't going to want to play here and will likely leave ASAP. I would NEVER trade for guys, who can turn around and leave like Howard did, ever again.

Let PG13 come here as a FA. If Bird wants to keep from losing him for nothing, he needs to do an easy trade for us. I would give him Randle and the 2nd pick and I am being generous. That would be contingent on PG13 agreeing to a multiyear contract. PERIOD!!!


I understand your concern and is legit. If we want to play ping-pong ball with Bird, we need two thing.

First: cap space for PG. That mean we don't need to splash long-term money this summer. Resign Nick for 10m/1year, resign Ennis or someone else for a decent amout, bring back Tarick and you have a year to figure out.

Second: our kids must improve. At least one of them must let the impression that he is a star in the making. Otherwise, even if PG will want to come here, if we are trash, he will pass.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:43 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Disgruntled stars in the last year of their deal have been traded for one prime asset and some ancillary ones almost without exception.

But again, as a 25 win team, I really don't see the point of making any deal the Bird would be interested. Great, we have PG now, at the expense of either a Top 3 pick, Ingram, or Russell + change.

Now what?


This is the question!
I will try to answer with an eye of our payroll and considering the cap is set to be 102m.
Make the easiest scenario: we offer the pick (say Josh Jackson), Clarkson and a future pick and receive Paul George. We cut Nick and Tarick from our payroll. We have roghly a payroll of 78m for 9 players. But we need to consider the cap-holds for the rest of the roster. Sure less that 20m. And Randle is a up to RFA.

Any way if we trade for PG, we won't have enough money to lure another star. Maybe someone like George Hill. Or trade other kids for another proven veteran. And still we will have many holes in our roster.
This Mozdeng contracts hurt us. Without these 33m blocked we would be in far better position.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:46 am    Post subject:

what is the obsession with paul George? I simply don't get it. great player, but not a superstar. plays the same position as ingram. will be a free agent next summer. won't get us past the warriors in the postseason anytime soon. in three years, i'd rather have a 22 year old, seasoned ingram ready to dominate than a 30 year old George. rather have a 24 year old D'Angelo, too. you can burn right through George's prime waiting for the warriors to come back down to earth. let's be smart about this.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:47 am    Post subject:

vdogg11 wrote:
what is the obsession with paul George? I simply don't get it. great player, but not a superstar. plays the same position as ingram. will be a free agent next summer. won't get us past the warriors in the postseason anytime soon. in three years, i'd rather have a 22 year old, seasoned ingram ready to dominate than a 30 year old George. rather have a 24 year old D'Angelo, too. you can burn right through George's prime waiting for the warriors to come back down to earth. let's be smart about this.


He's a star. The more debatable point is why the Lakers should trade premium asssets for him now as opposed to waiting for 2018.
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2 Max Scenarios:

-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:17 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
vdogg11 wrote:
what is the obsession with paul George? I simply don't get it. great player, but not a superstar. plays the same position as ingram. will be a free agent next summer. won't get us past the warriors in the postseason anytime soon. in three years, i'd rather have a 22 year old, seasoned ingram ready to dominate than a 30 year old George. rather have a 24 year old D'Angelo, too. you can burn right through George's prime waiting for the warriors to come back down to earth. let's be smart about this.


He's a star. The more debatable point is why the Lakers should trade premium asssets for him now as opposed to waiting for 2018.


Doesn't matter until someone can put the Warriors down in west we don't stand a chance even with George.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:52 am    Post subject:

fontana3d wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
vdogg11 wrote:
what is the obsession with paul George? I simply don't get it. great player, but not a superstar. plays the same position as ingram. will be a free agent next summer. won't get us past the warriors in the postseason anytime soon. in three years, i'd rather have a 22 year old, seasoned ingram ready to dominate than a 30 year old George. rather have a 24 year old D'Angelo, too. you can burn right through George's prime waiting for the warriors to come back down to earth. let's be smart about this.


He's a star. The more debatable point is why the Lakers should trade premium asssets for him now as opposed to waiting for 2018.


Doesn't matter until someone can put the Warriors down in west we don't stand a chance even with George.


I really don't think that is how Magic and company think.
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2 Max Scenarios:

-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:57 am    Post subject:

We really don't know how Magic and company really think until we see them make a move.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:10 am    Post subject:

LakerLogic wrote:
We really don't know how Magic and company really think until we see them make a move.


By dumping Mitch and Jim, and their numerous proclamations of getting a star now and competing for the playoffs.

Unless you believe it's the greatest smokescreen ever and they just want to tank for a few years.
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2 Max Scenarios:

-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:10 am    Post subject:

pIf we are going to trade away most of our young players for PG or Butler, we would only become another Pacers or Bulls who are 7th and 8th seeds in the weak east. Is it what we want?

Build around them? If it works, Pacers and Bulls would not let them go.

We need more talent but exchange of talent and should not give more for same or less.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:17 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:
We really don't know how Magic and company really think until we see them make a move.


By dumping Mitch and Jim, and their numerous proclamations of getting a star now and competing for the playoffs.

Unless you believe it's the greatest smokescreen ever and they just want to tank for a few years.


Well I think Magic is the next Isaiah but I can't prove that yet.

I don't think Pelinka is just going to trade away our young players for the hell of it especially if there is a considerable chance George comes here in FA.

We really don't have the flexibility as last year because of MozDeng. Take those contracts off the backs, I could see them making bigger moves.

They need to be smart. We are trying to build a championship team. If you trade 2 assets for George, that will never happen.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:32 am    Post subject:

...nothing worse than trading away youth only to have them become an all star for another team...
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:49 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
vdogg11 wrote:
what is the obsession with paul George? I simply don't get it. great player, but not a superstar. plays the same position as ingram. will be a free agent next summer. won't get us past the warriors in the postseason anytime soon. in three years, i'd rather have a 22 year old, seasoned ingram ready to dominate than a 30 year old George. rather have a 24 year old D'Angelo, too. you can burn right through George's prime waiting for the warriors to come back down to earth. let's be smart about this.


He's a star. The more debatable point is why the Lakers should trade premium asssets for him now as opposed to waiting for 2018.


PG could easily play on the wings next to Ingram. The length on d would be a problem for opposing teams. Just need some long, athletic, skilled front court players. I'd prefer to sign George in free agency, unless the Pacers are interested in a package built around Clarkson and Randle or a third team is involved.
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