Magic Johnson - "We don't want anyone over 7-8% body fat anymore"
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 14, 15, 16, 17  Next

 
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge Reply to topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
MJST
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 10180

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:13 am    Post subject:

non-player zealot wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
Deathstroke wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
Pat Riley did this in Miami. He benched veterans for measuring 9% when their target was 8% body fat.

http://www.espn.com/nba/news/story?id=2718996


Both Posey and Walker were out of shape that season. There's no excuse for professional NBA players to have poor conditioning and be out of shape when the season starts. This is their job to be in optimal shape, they get paid millions for this.

9% is poor conditioning?

And if that's "out of shape" what was Shaq that season?


Well, you may have a point, but some things Shaq was that those two weren't was 25 points and 10 boards and all the brute force you want against the opponents' front line.


That season actually Shaq only managed 17/7 and the Miami Heat only won 44 games that year, down from 52 the previous season, and were blown out in the first round by the Bulls. That season was also the start of Dwyane Wade's injury problems. The year Pat decided to force everyone to be 8% body fat or less.

So....yeah.....
_________________
"You can't scream TANK all year and then cry when free agents don't want to sit down with you."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
MJST
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 10180

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:55 am    Post subject:

But here to be fair, there's always two sides to every coin.

The Heat still do this practice to this day, and it does have success stories in Dion Waiters and James Johnson


http://www.stack.com/a/since-joining-the-miami-heat-dion-waiters-has-gotten-crazy-jacked

http://www.stack.com/a/the-miami-heat-take-before-and-after-photos-to-encourage-new-players-to-transform-their-bodies

It also resurrected the career of Hassan Whiteside
"While speaking with Grantland's Kirk Goldsberry, head coach Erik Spolestra recalled his first meeting with Whiteside: “Man to man, eyeball to eyeball, after his first workout in November, my first words were, ‘If you’re really serious about it, we can be the spot for you. But, this might not be for you. Our culture, our program, our commitment to player development, and getting you in the best shape you’ve ever been in in your whole life…there’s going to be times when you want to throw stuff at us and quit. And this might not be for you. But, if you want to commit to this, we think this is the right place for you.’”"
http://www.complex.com/sports/2015/03/hassan-whiteside-miami-heat
https://twitter.com/youngwhiteside/status/641349669507854336



So there you go, some positive stories for this method.
_________________
"You can't scream TANK all year and then cry when free agents don't want to sit down with you."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Steve007
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 8297

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:10 pm    Post subject:

What was Magic's bodyfat% when he made his comeback in 96? He was really fat that year.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
pmacla
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 31 Aug 2012
Posts: 7015
Location: Los Angeles, CA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:25 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
But here to be fair, there's always two sides to every coin.

The Heat still do this practice to this day, and it does have success stories in Dion Waiters and James Johnson


http://www.stack.com/a/since-joining-the-miami-heat-dion-waiters-has-gotten-crazy-jacked

http://www.stack.com/a/the-miami-heat-take-before-and-after-photos-to-encourage-new-players-to-transform-their-bodies

It also resurrected the career of Hassan Whiteside
"While speaking with Grantland's Kirk Goldsberry, head coach Erik Spolestra recalled his first meeting with Whiteside: “Man to man, eyeball to eyeball, after his first workout in November, my first words were, ‘If you’re really serious about it, we can be the spot for you. But, this might not be for you. Our culture, our program, our commitment to player development, and getting you in the best shape you’ve ever been in in your whole life…there’s going to be times when you want to throw stuff at us and quit. And this might not be for you. But, if you want to commit to this, we think this is the right place for you.’”"
http://www.complex.com/sports/2015/03/hassan-whiteside-miami-heat
https://twitter.com/youngwhiteside/status/641349669507854336



So there you go, some positive stories for this method.


perfect example of what happens with proper nutrition Waiters was in shape in 1st photo but 2nd was in great shape and his game was better for it
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
MJST
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 10180

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:35 pm    Post subject:

Steve007 wrote:
What was Magic's bodyfat% when he made his comeback in 96? He was really fat that year.


Magic has also promised to drop his body fat on the late night interview.
_________________
"You can't scream TANK all year and then cry when free agents don't want to sit down with you."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
tox
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 10113

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:03 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
But here to be fair, there's always two sides to every coin.

The Heat still do this practice to this day, and it does have success stories in Dion Waiters and James Johnson


http://www.stack.com/a/since-joining-the-miami-heat-dion-waiters-has-gotten-crazy-jacked

http://www.stack.com/a/the-miami-heat-take-before-and-after-photos-to-encourage-new-players-to-transform-their-bodies

It also resurrected the career of Hassan Whiteside
"While speaking with Grantland's Kirk Goldsberry, head coach Erik Spolestra recalled his first meeting with Whiteside: “Man to man, eyeball to eyeball, after his first workout in November, my first words were, ‘If you’re really serious about it, we can be the spot for you. But, this might not be for you. Our culture, our program, our commitment to player development, and getting you in the best shape you’ve ever been in in your whole life…there’s going to be times when you want to throw stuff at us and quit. And this might not be for you. But, if you want to commit to this, we think this is the right place for you.’”"
http://www.complex.com/sports/2015/03/hassan-whiteside-miami-heat
https://twitter.com/youngwhiteside/status/641349669507854336



So there you go, some positive stories for this method.

Thanks for this. It seems like a no brainer that a professional athlete should be in good shape, but I wasn't aware there is evidence specifically of this sort of policy working.
_________________
https://j.gifs.com/Rnqnbk.gif
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
MJST
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 10180

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:10 pm    Post subject:

Like I said, I'll show both sides of it, showed James Johnson and Dion Waiters how it helped them. So I'll show more of the interview from James Johnson

Q: What was your body fat when you took that before photo?

James: “I think it was 14.5 percent body fat.”

Q: How about when you took the after photo?


James: “I’m 6.75 percent body fat right now.”

Q: Is this the best shape you’ve ever been in?

James: “Ever. And I’m not finished. I’m 238 [pounds] right now and 6.75 [percent body fat]. So, I’m just going to keep going, see how far it takes me. I feel like the more I lose, the more I unleash skills that I didn’t think I was capable of having or doing.”

Q: How much weight have you lost?

James: “From 275 to 238.”

Q: Where does the weight loss help you the most?

James: “It’s just all-around. If you’ve seen the before and afters, I know they only show you the front part, but my back, they take the before and after, and my back has completely transformed all the way slim. Just being able to do more things agility wise. I can move, cut through smaller spaces and definitely give more effort out there in the game. I can go from 100 effort to 150 now.”

Q: What did you change with your diet that helped you lose the weight?


James: “Just the lifestyle. I have the money to go get food, go out to eat in the nice restaurants and you take advantage sometimes. But those are not always the best meals. You think you’re going out eating all the time and no matter what you pick, they’re not always healthy. So just this year, I’ve been real strict on eating home cooked meals. I’ve just been eating a lot of home cooked meals and just doing the regular routines and never quitting. Always lift every day, try to get better every day with that, and it’s just been burning more fat for me, I guess.”

http://heatzone.blog.palmbeachpost.com/2017/03/23/qa-james-johnson-opens-up-about-his-weight-loss-and-ability-to-roundhouse-kick-a-ball-stuck-on-the-rim/



And More on Waiters

The photo on the left shows a heavier Waiters when he signed with the Heat this past offseason, and the photo on the right shows a trimmed down Waiters at the end of the season.

https://cmgpbpheatzone.files.wordpress.com/2017/04/capture1.png

This weight loss process began in the offseason as Waiters showed up to training camp in September 12 pounds lighter than when he signed with Miami in July, going from 234 pounds and 10 percent body fat to 222 pounds and 7.5 percent body fat. But as the picture shows, Waiters continued to drop weight during the season.

“Them staying on top of you and making sure you do what you got to do,” Waiters said Monday during exit interviews when asked about how the Heat do things. “Most important is getting your mind and body right. That’s one thing they preach over here, just get in the best shape of your life. As you can see with some of the guys coming in including myself, just getting your body right. It showed with the performance on the court.”


Also, you can add Wayne Ellington to the list it benefited

The Heat have helped transform plenty of bodies over the years. Most recently, James Johnson opened up about cutting 37 pounds and 7.75 percent body fat since signing with the Heat in July.

Now, Ellington is sharing a similar story.

Ellington signed with the Heat as a free agent in July and weighed in at 222 pounds on Aug. 1. The 6-foot-4 guard is now down to 203 pounds and 6.5 percent body fat.

“My body feels good,” Ellington said before Wednesday’s game against the Hornets. “I feel as strong as I’ve been in a long time. It just feels good getting those compliments when I see people I haven’t seen in a few months. ‘Damn man, you look good. What do they have you doing?’ Me and my boys joke about it all the time. They say ‘You haven’t looked like that since college.’ It feels good.

“I’ve never been a bad eater. It’s just the portion size. I trimmed down on the portion size. I watched when I’m eating too. I’m not eating at night late anymore. I’m just being careful when I’m eating.”

“Never done weight and body fat every week. Never did the before and after photo. Never had to be as dedicated to being in the weight room and getting my conditioning to the way it is now,” Ellington said. “I’m glad man. I’m so glad that I was able to come here and really focus on those things. It’s done an amazing thing for me. I feel like I’m having one of the best seasons of my career so far.”

Ellington’s feeling is correct.

The 28th overall pick in the 2009 draft is averaging a career-high 11.1 points per game. His 3-point percentage of 37.5 isn’t the best of his career, but it’s still impressive considering he’s taking a career-high 6.5 3-point shot attempts per game — three more shots than his previous career high.


http://heatzone.blog.palmbeachpost.com/2017/03/09/add-wayne-ellington-to-list-of-players-who-have-benefited-from-heats-strength-and-conditioning-program/




So there is success stories to this method. The difference is that these people's bodies had already developed to an extent, even Waiters was around 24 when he put himself through this precedent.

Anyway, there's some positive stories to do with it. So take from it what you will.

I am excited about the potential prospect it could mean for our core should this method wind up working for them. Jules slimmed down to 235-240 and at 8% body fat and increased stamina to go with it would be quite something to see. It could benefit the others too if it winds up working out for them and the FO Staff knows what they're doing with their bodies and doesn't try to push them too hard.

But I wanted to show some good news, in terms of this method working, the Miami Heat currently is one. Both with Whiteside's resurrection of his career, as well as Dion Waiters coming out season and James Johnson saving his career.

So it's good to see where this is working. Very much so.
_________________
"You can't scream TANK all year and then cry when free agents don't want to sit down with you."


Last edited by MJST on Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
DaMuleRules
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 38475
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Magic Johnson - "We don't want anyone over 7-8% body fat anymore"

GoldenThroat wrote:
Quote:
“We told every player that they must improve and we want them to be in the best physical shape of their lives. We don’t want anybody over seven or eight percent body fat anymore, and basically all but one or two players were in double-figures in body fat (last season),” Johnson said. “We can’t have that. We told them that this is all about excellence now. So you’ve got to be disciplined and put the work in.”

http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2017/4/20/15375442/la-lakers-magic-johnson-dangelo-russell-jordan-clarkson-brandon-ingram-training-camp-video-interview


I guess this is what 7-8% body fat looks like.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C94Y3pgV0AAsnGc.jpg

Yeah, Magic body fat indexes are what is important in basketball and are what makes "excellence"



(and people wonder why I wasn't a big fan of the Jeanie/Magic Insurrection . . .

"How could it get worse?" they asked . . .

"Hold my beer" said Jeanie Magic Buss
_________________
"How could it get worse?" some Lakers fans asked . . .

"Hold my beer" said the Jeanie Magic Buss.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
MJST
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 10180

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:35 pm    Post subject:

And here's an article about the Heat and that regimen, the name of the article puts into perspective, why Magic (likely with some Riley advice) is pushing for it.

The Miami Heat are winning because they never get tired

http://www.sbnation.com/2017/3/14/14870016/miami-heat-analysis-tired-goran-dragic-dion-waiters

That entire article is long, but it leads into the benefits of the program and all that other stuff how it leads to basketball and helps.

So worth the read if you want some good coverage on it.
_________________
"You can't scream TANK all year and then cry when free agents don't want to sit down with you."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Daphanabe
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 1248

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Magic Johnson - "We don't want anyone over 7-8% body fat anymore"

DaMuleRules wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Quote:
“We told every player that they must improve and we want them to be in the best physical shape of their lives. We don’t want anybody over seven or eight percent body fat anymore, and basically all but one or two players were in double-figures in body fat (last season),” Johnson said. “We can’t have that. We told them that this is all about excellence now. So you’ve got to be disciplined and put the work in.”

http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2017/4/20/15375442/la-lakers-magic-johnson-dangelo-russell-jordan-clarkson-brandon-ingram-training-camp-video-interview


I guess this is what 7-8% body fat looks like.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C94Y3pgV0AAsnGc.jpg

Yeah, Magic body fat indexes are what is important in basketball and are what makes "excellence"



(and people wonder why I wasn't a big fan of the Jeanie/Magic Insurrection . . .

"How could it get worse?" they asked . . .

"Hold my beer" said Jeanie Magic Buss


Having athletes in elite shape is a bad thing?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
tox
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 10113

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:46 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
And here's an article about the Heat and that regimen, the name of the article puts into perspective, why Magic (likely with some Riley advice) is pushing for it.

The Miami Heat are winning because they never get tired

http://www.sbnation.com/2017/3/14/14870016/miami-heat-analysis-tired-goran-dragic-dion-waiters

That entire article is long, but it leads into the benefits of the program and all that other stuff how it leads to basketball and helps.

So worth the read if you want some good coverage on it.


Appreciate this, MJST.
_________________
https://j.gifs.com/Rnqnbk.gif
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
MJST
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 10180

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:48 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
MJST wrote:
And here's an article about the Heat and that regimen, the name of the article puts into perspective, why Magic (likely with some Riley advice) is pushing for it.

The Miami Heat are winning because they never get tired

http://www.sbnation.com/2017/3/14/14870016/miami-heat-analysis-tired-goran-dragic-dion-waiters

That entire article is long, but it leads into the benefits of the program and all that other stuff how it leads to basketball and helps.

So worth the read if you want some good coverage on it.


Appreciate this, MJST.


No problem, that article is really great and in depth, and a lot of the benefits it cites are very likely the stuff we're hoping benefits what we're trying to do next season. the ball movement, instinctive playing. Etc etc, it's good at citing that kind of stuff that are likely priorities in what we're trying to do next season so it's a good article for it.
_________________
"You can't scream TANK all year and then cry when free agents don't want to sit down with you."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
non-player zealot
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 16006

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:31 am    Post subject:

Steve007 wrote:
What was Magic's bodyfat% when he made his comeback in 96? He was really fat that year.


It's not like he didn't work out and had adipose tissue flapping all over the place. Oliver Miller was FAT. Magic was heavy and a lot more bulked up than in 1980, obvioulsy. If you wanna be fair, maybe you can say something about his original playing weight, but I wouldn't say he was "fat" then, exactly. Not in a Barkley sense. There's a difference between outright fat and vascular with clenched muscle fibers showing a la Robbo, Malone, Pippen, Mike, etc. Example, you can look at an action still of Scott Pippen and his arm looks like a skinned cadaver's arm. You can see all the fibers and musculature. He and Mike were honed to a much finer point than Earvin, but hell. The dude had HIV and was off for 5 years. Cmon, SteveO.

People are way too testy about that number he quoted. That was most likely a throwaway musing that came to his lips at that moment in time like most of his other statements. There's even some good folk in here that are edgy. It's not just the reactive squadron.
_________________
GOAT MAGIC REEL
NBC intro, CHI 91

NPZ is one of humanity's greatest assests. -Dladi
And of course, I'm indebted to NPZ, our legend. -spflakers
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
MJST
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 10180

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:59 am    Post subject:

Again the article above explains in detail some good things from it, wish I Could put pictures but I'll post some of the stuff in it.

The Miami Heat are winning because they never get tired
The Heat value conditioning above all else. That’s why they’re overachieving.

Getting in incredible shape — and the shame of looking doughy while the rest of the team is cut — has sustained the Heat’s culture for years. But in a league where rest and recovery are becoming more accepted as training methods, the Heat’s approach is becoming more of a competitive advantage. As this incredible run of form illustrates, there are many ways that being in better shape than your opponent has its advantages.

It facilitates the magic elixir of ball movement

Every team wants to push the ball and get into its offense quickly. Every player wants to be a quick decision-maker. Every coach wants this sort of ball movement that keeps everybody happy and makes TV commentators swoon.

https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/0BoSNEECiBjx04xPuGqr2MvAEKI=/0x0:701x388/1120x0/filters:focal(0x0:701x388):no_upscale()/cdn2.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/8151223/heat_ball_movement_toronto.gif

But too often, these hopes fail because the teams lack the nutrients to power that basketball nirvana. Sustaining those goals for 100 possessions a game while also defending at a high level is exhausting. As players lose energy, they need to walk up the floor to replenish their tanks. And the more tired a person is, the more difficult it is to make clear-headed decisions quickly. There’s a reason we take longer to function when sleep-deprived.

That’s why we can’t separate Miami’s recent offensive success from its emphasis on conditioning. Though the Heat are 20th in offensive efficiency for the entire season, they’re sixth since their winning run began in mid-January. This is despite not having any elite offensive talent — Waiters’ out-of-body experience aside. There’s a reason for that.

The Heat are not the only team with guards who like to attack off the dribble, power forwards who shoot threes, and big men who roll down the lane.

The real magic is in their execution. The Heat cut hard through their sets. This is the kind of pindown screen that almost every team has in its playbook. The difference is that Wayne Ellington really sprints through it.

https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/HQsc89OBDlBnWaAh5RDLxbBkgrI=/0x0:700x406/920x0/filters:focal(0x0:700x406):gifv():no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/8151065/ellington_curl.gif

There’s a level of precision in Ellington’s change of pace that can only happen if they’re in terrific shape. Otherwise, the details of each movement start to slip, and that makes all the difference.

Because all the Heat players are expected to be in the shape of their lives, they can each react quicker to find the open spaces another player creates. Every team yearns to develop this sort of flow that allows it to transition between one offensive action to the next without any hesitation.

https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/UP7KVNG82m8pk9qlNups8FBctiw=/0x0:601x343/920x0/filters:focal(0x0:601x343):gifv():no_upscale()/cdn2.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/8150487/multiple_pnrs.gif

https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/hITD72HarrUgSwmZWQUHK6pcHR8=/1000x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/8150503/Screen_Shot_2017_03_13_at_3.14.17_PM.png

https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/tdsBSNdENN7Tqwytj9bVoqL-CUA=/1000x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/8150509/Screen_Shot_2017_03_13_at_3.14.40_PM.png

Doing that requires all five players to read the game and act more decisively than their opponents. Every split second spent standing around to recharge the turbo button is a split second that disrupts the timing necessary to exploit a gap.

But because Miami’s players are so well-conditioned, they are not burdened by the need to regather energy. And that’s how you get sequences like this:

https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/j2ieRZ36qQ28zgI45J1Z7WY73GI=/0x0:701x410/920x0/filters:focal(0x0:701x410):gifv():no_upscale()/cdn2.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/8150283/heat_ball_movement.gif

Getting in shape makes it easier to play instinctually


Beyond the alignment of set plays, the Heat’s most defining characteristic is how they attack gaps in the defense. The Heat are the NBA’s leader in total drives per game, but they rank dead last in the percentage of time they score on those drives, per NBA.com’s player tracking data. Instead, they rank first by a wide margin in total number of passes thrown off drives and the percentage of time they drive and dish.

In other words, the Heat spend a lot of time attacking a gap, drawing the defense, then passing on the move for someone else to do the exact same thing. Eventually, they make defenses dizzy and find an open shot for someone.

https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/K4kg1pb2AfYUl1awrZMYiHP5NXk=/0x0:701x434/920x0/filters:focal(0x0:701x434):gifv():no_upscale()/cdn2.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/8151677/drive_and_kick.gif

Mastering this style requires players to make rapid decisions on the move, which is much easier when said players are in great physical condition. There have been numerous studies suggesting that exercise improves decision-making skills. Human beings who work out more find they are generally more decisive. (This is when I took a gym break to fix writer’s block. It worked).

Every professional athlete exercises far more than the average human being, but even a marginal improvement within this elite selection sample can make a huge difference. There’s a cognitive reason Johnson can “go from 100 effort to 150 now.”

https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/LyNs2oS4I1EyhfA9hKDRSVLWsyo=/0x0:700x406/920x0/filters:focal(0x0:700x406):gifv():no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/8151771/johnson_effort.gif

It also helps them put the clamps on the other end
Hard-nosed defense has sustained Miami’s culture ever since Alonzo Mourning patrolled the paint. Even when the offense was floundering early in the season, the Heat were defending the hell out of teams. They rank fifth in defensive efficiency and third since their winning run began.

It’s tempting to attribute Miami’s defensive success to Whiteside. Yes, Whiteside is a towering presence inside, swatting more than two shots a game and altering countless others. But for the second straight season, the Heat allow fewer points per 100 possessions with Whiteside out of the game than with him on the floor — and the difference is more pronounced this year.

This isn’t to pick on Whiteside, who is still a force. This is to illustrate that the backbone of Miami’s defense is on the front lines. And it’s here that Miami’s conditioning really shines:

https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/S6B3g6wpBs-54BULUZtYHuCj-4Y=/0x0:701x394/920x0/filters:focal(0x0:701x394):gifv():no_upscale()/cdn2.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/8151507/mcgruder_on_kemba.gif

That’s Rodney McGruder sliding in front of a dribble hand-off, then hounding Kemba Walker like a gnat. Try as they might, the Hornets can’t get rid of him. The end result is a bricked contested jumper, and Whiteside barely had to stray from his preferred area.

Heat perimeter players just don’t give up on plays. Only 13.3 percent of shots taken outside of 10 feet against them are classified as having no defender within six feet of the shooter, according to NBA.com’s player tracking data. That’s nearly a percentage point better than the next-best team. Only the Jazz allow more catch-and-shoot opportunities, and no team allows fewer three-point attempts per game.

The shots the Heat frequently allow look a lot like this:

https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/7CBtiL_jYT5IwKiRZTiqxm1xVOo=/1000x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/8151529/Screen_Shot_2017_03_13_at_5.35.52_PM.png


That miss happened because Josh Richardson moved his feet, didn’t get slammed off his path at the point of contact, and fought back into position to put a hand up. Because he did, the other four Heat defenders could stay at home, removing the gaps that other teams exploit for drives and open threes.

https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/ELq21Kn0ZNMbu41TeW-Rl81TVwA=/0x0:701x457/920x0/filters:focal(0x0:701x457):gifv():no_upscale()/cdn1.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/8151559/richardson_contest_derozan.gif

Less-conditioned defenders fail in all three areas. They aren’t quick enough to jump over those ball screens, they lose balance fighting through picks, and they lack the will to rally back when beat the first time. How many times have you seen your team’s guard recoiling toward midcourt as his man speeds off a high screen? That never happens to the Heat.

The Heat have several players known for their defense, but even players like Goran Dragic and Waiters are hounding ball-handlers with more vigor than in previous stops.

https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/90foU8QS5uSLqpgaT38or1D7810=/0x0:701x410/920x0/filters:focal(0x0:701x410):gifv():no_upscale()/cdn2.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/8151479/dragic_contest.gif

https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/aZ-KJilWzomEPF_Ce5Xg2ez01wU=/0x0:700x406/920x0/filters:focal(0x0:700x406):gifv():no_upscale()/cdn2.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/8151653/waiters_on_george.gif

There’s nothing complicated about this approach schematically. The difference is that Heat players have enough energy to actually pull it off time and time again.

And that has a cumulative effect. Like a great distance runner, the Heat keep pace over the first three quarters, then turn in a devastating kick as the other team tires. Miami’s fourth-quarter defensive rating of 98.7 points allowed per 100 possessions is nearly three points higher than second-place San Antonio. Because of their commitment to conditioning, they have gas in the tank as their opponent runs on fumes.

Read More and SEE More Here: http://www.sbnation.com/2017/3/14/14870016/miami-heat-analysis-tired-goran-dragic-dion-waiters

Definitely worth the read.

It's very obvious that Riley is in Magic's ear about this because of what it's done for the Heat as of lately in terms of helping to overachieve as well as do what Luke wants on both the offensive and defensive end.

We saw what the diet change and conditioning did for Randle post all-star break. So the prospect of it, if done right can be beneficial. If Magic is going to follow the Heat's model on conditioning like they've adapted in the past few seasons then that could wind up being a very good thing for us.

You saw what Julius did with a simple diet change and conditioning increase, a Julius Randle showing up to camp 235 and 8-9% body fat could be something special in that aspect.

Essentially this is the kind of thing that in theory will help the guys play with the same kind of motor that a guy like T-Rob brings, and those kind of things are beneficial for us as a team as our style is likely going to be very fast paced, while we're also expected to play defense, so I'd assume if that's Luke's vision, this may be the route to go, but IF we do it as responsibly as the Heat do now, after the trial and error of 2007-2008. It seems their methods have improved, so if we're using the Heat as a model for conditioning and body fat, I can get behind that.


Again, it's only fair to show both sides of the equation, as well as the most recent, so hopefully this broadens perspective a bit, it did for me for sure.
_________________
"You can't scream TANK all year and then cry when free agents don't want to sit down with you."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
ant3x7
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 338

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:52 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
And here's an article about the Heat and that regimen, the name of the article puts into perspective, why Magic (likely with some Riley advice) is pushing for it.

The Miami Heat are winning because they never get tired

http://www.sbnation.com/2017/3/14/14870016/miami-heat-analysis-tired-goran-dragic-dion-waiters

That entire article is long, but it leads into the benefits of the program and all that other stuff how it leads to basketball and helps.

So worth the read if you want some good coverage on it.


Great article, as well as the others you have posted MJST. Miami's post-ASG record (30-11) is absolutely due to their superior conditioning and culture. Getting elite athletes into world-class shape can make decent players into good players, good players into great players, and great players into elite players.

Even Dion Waiters' article today in The Players' Tribune touched upon Riley's focus on conditioning:

Quote:
Then Pat says, “We’re going to get you in world-class shape. Not good shape. Not great shape. World-class shape.”

I mean, I’m in the NBA. In my mind, I’m already in good shape. But do I eat a Philly steak every now and then when I’m home? You know I do.

So Pat’s looking at me like, “Give us a season, and you’ll see. World-class.”


Quote:
When Pat said “world-class shape,” I thought it sounded cool, but in my head, I was like, Yeah, I got this. I’m in world-class shape. You already know.

So I show up for camp, and after one week, my body is shot. I was damn near throwing up in trash cans like in the movies.

And I realized, You know what? Pat was not just talking that smooth talk. This Heat thing is the real deal.

_________________
"Back to Back Yeah, Yeah...and you know that!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
tox
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 10113

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:04 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
When Pat said “world-class shape,” I thought it sounded cool, but in my head, I was like, Yeah, I got this. I’m in world-class shape. You already know.

So I show up for camp, and after one week, my body is shot. I was damn near throwing up in trash cans like in the movies.

And I realized, You know what? Pat was not just talking that smooth talk. This Heat thing is the real deal.


Very Byron-like. But I guess it worked
_________________
https://j.gifs.com/Rnqnbk.gif
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Purp 32
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 12 Jul 2014
Posts: 1593
Location: Venice, CA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:38 pm    Post subject:

I love this. Create a culture of excellence.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
MJST
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 10180

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:58 pm    Post subject:

ant3x7 wrote:
MJST wrote:
And here's an article about the Heat and that regimen, the name of the article puts into perspective, why Magic (likely with some Riley advice) is pushing for it.

The Miami Heat are winning because they never get tired

http://www.sbnation.com/2017/3/14/14870016/miami-heat-analysis-tired-goran-dragic-dion-waiters

That entire article is long, but it leads into the benefits of the program and all that other stuff how it leads to basketball and helps.

So worth the read if you want some good coverage on it.


Great article, as well as the others you have posted MJST. Miami's post-ASG record (30-11) is absolutely due to their superior conditioning and culture. Getting elite athletes into world-class shape can make decent players into good players, good players into great players, and great players into elite players.

Even Dion Waiters' article today in The Players' Tribune touched upon Riley's focus on conditioning:

Quote:
Then Pat says, “We’re going to get you in world-class shape. Not good shape. Not great shape. World-class shape.”

I mean, I’m in the NBA. In my mind, I’m already in good shape. But do I eat a Philly steak every now and then when I’m home? You know I do.

So Pat’s looking at me like, “Give us a season, and you’ll see. World-class.”


Quote:
When Pat said “world-class shape,” I thought it sounded cool, but in my head, I was like, Yeah, I got this. I’m in world-class shape. You already know.

So I show up for camp, and after one week, my body is shot. I was damn near throwing up in trash cans like in the movies.

And I realized, You know what? Pat was not just talking that smooth talk. This Heat thing is the real deal.


You're very welcome

tox wrote:
Quote:
When Pat said “world-class shape,” I thought it sounded cool, but in my head, I was like, Yeah, I got this. I’m in world-class shape. You already know.

So I show up for camp, and after one week, my body is shot. I was damn near throwing up in trash cans like in the movies.

And I realized, You know what? Pat was not just talking that smooth talk. This Heat thing is the real deal.


Very Byron-like. But I guess it worked


One of the main things Byron forgets along with communication, is also setting that 'world class standard' as a precedent with an actual plan. One thing Pat has over him is communication.

Pat at least explains himself and the method to the madness, Byron just uses the method in practices but never explains why or sets an actual goal to strive towards off the court. He's more just, makes you suffer in practices, never explains why, then the results never back it up, and he never communicates what was done wrong. That is something both Spo and Pat have over him, and Spo's honest talks with Whiteside both before and after they got him are proof of that. Whereas when Byron says "no team is gonna be more conditioned than us" he essentially means "I'm gonna run them to death in practices" and doesn't do anything else that comes with that precedent or goal setting for both on and off the court. So essentially Byron feels he's done all that's necessary by running them to death in practice and then leaves the rest for them to 'figure out' on their own.. then is shocked when it doesn't work.

That is one major thing that Pat and Spo have over Byron.

That is why Spo is great at coaching it, but Pat is great at relaying the message and uses it as a teaching experience and precedent they set for off the court goals as well as on the court goals and benefits which is a lifestyle and teaching situation. Byron forgets the 'teaching' aspect of it and it reflects in his coaching, results and response to his methods.
_________________
"You can't scream TANK all year and then cry when free agents don't want to sit down with you."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
LilJay24
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 22 Dec 2011
Posts: 4008

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:45 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
Quote:
When Pat said “world-class shape,” I thought it sounded cool, but in my head, I was like, Yeah, I got this. I’m in world-class shape. You already know.

So I show up for camp, and after one week, my body is shot. I was damn near throwing up in trash cans like in the movies.

And I realized, You know what? Pat was not just talking that smooth talk. This Heat thing is the real deal.


Very Byron-like. But I guess it worked


I could make DLO and squad run suicides, miles and do all kinds of cardio/weightlifting as well. They'd probably get in good shape.

Doesn't mean I'd know what the heck to do when it came to actually coaching a NBA team. Bryon could actually probably make a good conditioning coach if he hadn't burnt so many bridges with the players.
_________________
Did Jordan Clarkson think Metta's 3 at the end was going in? "I don't know. He was shaking like a stripper in the corner."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
tox
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 10113

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:11 pm    Post subject:

^ Good points from both of you. Yeah, the conditioning has to be part of holistic coaching plan. What's the point of conditioning when you end up sitting in the corner for 16 seconds while Kobe ISOs anyways?
_________________
https://j.gifs.com/Rnqnbk.gif
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
MJST
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 10180

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:09 pm    Post subject:

The main thing when it comes to the conditioning isn't just running the rampant in practice and leaving the rest for them to figure out.

If you actually lay out a plan and communicate on the stuff that you need them to do off the court or setting a goal and giving them something to strive towards, then you can have something work, when you got the lines of communication.


Byron would have just ran them harder and went "figure it out" not taking advantage of the players that are actually willing to listen and learn.

What Luke Walton did with Randle post ASB and putting the priority on conditioning and getting his body better and setting those goals and challenging him is what lead to his post All-Star Break play. Communication is big with Luke, and he is very good at it.

if Byron could do that, he wouldn't have been fired so much and be the worst NBA Coach of all Time by the records.
_________________
"You can't scream TANK all year and then cry when free agents don't want to sit down with you."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Judah
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 23 Jun 2015
Posts: 1143

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:10 pm    Post subject:

I can't believe people are actually comparing this to Byron. That's just enormous reaching. All of the running Byron made his teams do had no purpose outside of perpetuating a facade that he was some hardcore drill Sargent of Riley's caliber. Well, that along with the fact that he just got off on having authority. It was a cover up. Byron knew he brought nothing to the table as a coach. The players knew it too.

We're not talking about a bunch of senseless running. The obvious, interpretive key in Magic's point was the same one that he and Pelinka have repeated over and over again about establishing a culture where the players are striving for excellence. To compare any of this to Byron's senseless running is just pathetic no matter how much you hate Magic.
_________________
"When man thinks in self-conscious submission to the voluntary revelation of the self-sufficient God, he has therewith the only possible ground of certainty for his knowledge."

- Cornelius Van Til
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
MJST
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 10180

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:16 pm    Post subject:

Judah wrote:
I can't believe people are actually comparing this to Byron. That's just enormous reaching. All of the running Byron made his teams do had no purpose outside of perpetuating a facade that he was some hardcore drill Sargent of Riley's caliber. Well, that along with the fact that he just got off on having authority. It was a cover up. Byron knew he brought nothing to the table as a coach. The players knew it too.

We're not talking about a bunch of senseless running. The obvious, interpretive key in Magic's point was the same one that he and Pelinka have repeated over and over again about establishing a culture where the players are striving for excellence. To compare any of this to Byron's senseless running is just pathetic no matter how much you hate Magic.


There is no "key to Magic's point" in terms of just saying it to set the precedent without any intention of being super specific. I believe he's being very specific, as he's likely deliberately going to integrate what the Miami Heat do with their conditioning and body fat goals, thus I posted some stories about it where it was effective and what players it helped.

So because of that, I'd be hoping that it's the kind of precedent we'll be actually specifically adapting as opposed to just talk at this point.
_________________
"You can't scream TANK all year and then cry when free agents don't want to sit down with you."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Deathstroke
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 10 Dec 2015
Posts: 2131
Location: OC

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:25 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Judah wrote:
I can't believe people are actually comparing this to Byron. That's just enormous reaching. All of the running Byron made his teams do had no purpose outside of perpetuating a facade that he was some hardcore drill Sargent of Riley's caliber. Well, that along with the fact that he just got off on having authority. It was a cover up. Byron knew he brought nothing to the table as a coach. The players knew it too.

We're not talking about a bunch of senseless running. The obvious, interpretive key in Magic's point was the same one that he and Pelinka have repeated over and over again about establishing a culture where the players are striving for excellence. To compare any of this to Byron's senseless running is just pathetic no matter how much you hate Magic.


There is no "key to Magic's point" in terms of just saying it to set the precedent without any intention of being super specific. I believe he's being very specific, as he's likely deliberately going to integrate what the Miami Heat do with their conditioning and body fat goals, thus I posted some stories about it where it was effective and what players it helped.

So because of that, I'd be hoping that it's the kind of precedent we'll be actually specifically adapting as opposed to just talk at this point.


Just imagine a Julius Randle that doesn't get tired.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
MJST
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 10180

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:28 pm    Post subject:

Deathstroke wrote:
MJST wrote:
Judah wrote:
I can't believe people are actually comparing this to Byron. That's just enormous reaching. All of the running Byron made his teams do had no purpose outside of perpetuating a facade that he was some hardcore drill Sargent of Riley's caliber. Well, that along with the fact that he just got off on having authority. It was a cover up. Byron knew he brought nothing to the table as a coach. The players knew it too.

We're not talking about a bunch of senseless running. The obvious, interpretive key in Magic's point was the same one that he and Pelinka have repeated over and over again about establishing a culture where the players are striving for excellence. To compare any of this to Byron's senseless running is just pathetic no matter how much you hate Magic.


There is no "key to Magic's point" in terms of just saying it to set the precedent without any intention of being super specific. I believe he's being very specific, as he's likely deliberately going to integrate what the Miami Heat do with their conditioning and body fat goals, thus I posted some stories about it where it was effective and what players it helped.

So because of that, I'd be hoping that it's the kind of precedent we'll be actually specifically adapting as opposed to just talk at this point.


Just imagine a Julius Randle that doesn't get tired.


A Julius Randle that has dropped to around 235-240 and 9% body fat with that conditioning focus over the off-season would be a very dangerous player against every other team in the league.

The kind of help that kind of stuff the Heat have done recently with their body fat and conditioning aspect, has done wonders for Dion Waiters and saved the careers of James Johnson and Wayne Ellington.

Julius Randle coming into camp for us, conditioned, at around 8% body fat and around 240 would be a very scary matchup for anyone in the league.
_________________
"You can't scream TANK all year and then cry when free agents don't want to sit down with you."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 14, 15, 16, 17  Next
Page 15 of 17
Jump to:  

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum






Graphics by uberzev
© 1995-2010 LakersGround.net. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy. Terms of Use.
LakersGround is an unofficial news source serving the fan community since 1995.
We are in no way associated with the Los Angeles Lakers or the National Basketball Association.


Powered by phpBB