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iimarshon Star Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2007 Posts: 2673
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Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:22 am Post subject: Exceptions next year? |
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Do we have any exceptions next year? Like MLE or LLE? Or just vet minimums? _________________ 24 |
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omzzzzz Star Player
Joined: 25 Dec 2002 Posts: 1740 Location: Dana Point, CA
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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The cap is projected to go up to around $103 million, so the Lakers are going to be going into the offseason about $20 million under the cap. That doesn't include what they would have to pay their 1st round pick(s).
If Nick Young doesn't pick up his option, Tarik Black and David Nwaba are waived, then the Lakers only sign their draft pick they got from the Rockets, they would have roughly $27 million in cap space. That amount is just shy of a max contract.
So in other words, they will not have their non tax payer mid-level exception, or Bi-annual exception. They could sign veteran minimum players though. |
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Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46490
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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omzzzzz wrote: | The cap is projected to go up to around $103 million, so the Lakers are going to be going into the offseason about $20 million under the cap. That doesn't include what they would have to pay their 1st round pick(s).
If Nick Young doesn't pick up his option, Tarik Black and David Nwaba are waived, then the Lakers only sign their draft pick they got from the Rockets, they would have roughly $27 million in cap space. That amount is just shy of a max contract.
So in other words, they will not have their non tax payer mid-level exception, or Bi-annual exception. They could sign veteran minimum players though. |
I thought we could go up to 35M in cap to spend? I remember someone mentioned that number. |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90299 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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omzzzzz wrote: | The cap is projected to go up to around $103 million, so the Lakers are going to be going into the offseason about $20 million under the cap. That doesn't include what they would have to pay their 1st round pick(s).
If Nick Young doesn't pick up his option, Tarik Black and David Nwaba are waived, then the Lakers only sign their draft pick they got from the Rockets, they would have roughly $27 million in cap space. That amount is just shy of a max contract.
So in other words, they will not have their non tax payer mid-level exception, or Bi-annual exception. They could sign veteran minimum players though. |
They would also have the room exception. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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omzzzzz Star Player
Joined: 25 Dec 2002 Posts: 1740 Location: Dana Point, CA
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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Inspector Gadget wrote: | omzzzzz wrote: | The cap is projected to go up to around $103 million, so the Lakers are going to be going into the offseason about $20 million under the cap. That doesn't include what they would have to pay their 1st round pick(s).
If Nick Young doesn't pick up his option, Tarik Black and David Nwaba are waived, then the Lakers only sign their draft pick they got from the Rockets, they would have roughly $27 million in cap space. That amount is just shy of a max contract.
So in other words, they will not have their non tax payer mid-level exception, or Bi-annual exception. They could sign veteran minimum players though. |
I thought we could go up to 35M in cap to spend? I remember someone mentioned that number. |
I believe that was when we thought the cap was going to be closer to $107 or $110 million. The latest salary cap projection I saw was $103 million. So just depends where the number comes in. |
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omzzzzz Star Player
Joined: 25 Dec 2002 Posts: 1740 Location: Dana Point, CA
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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Omar Little wrote: | omzzzzz wrote: | The cap is projected to go up to around $103 million, so the Lakers are going to be going into the offseason about $20 million under the cap. That doesn't include what they would have to pay their 1st round pick(s).
If Nick Young doesn't pick up his option, Tarik Black and David Nwaba are waived, then the Lakers only sign their draft pick they got from the Rockets, they would have roughly $27 million in cap space. That amount is just shy of a max contract.
So in other words, they will not have their non tax payer mid-level exception, or Bi-annual exception. They could sign veteran minimum players though. |
They would also have the room exception. |
Oh that's right. Good call.....once we spend to the cap we will have that exception. |
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LarryCoon Site Staff
Joined: 11 Aug 2002 Posts: 11264
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:53 am Post subject: |
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Current cap projection is $101M.
Non-taxpayer MLE will be $8,406,000
Room exception will be $4,328,000
Bi-Annual exception will be $3,290,000
The Lakers' cap room will depend on what happens with their own pick, and Black & Young (and to a small extent, Nwaba). If they keep Black & Nwaba, and Young opts in, and they get the #1 pick, then their team salary is $91,704,624 and they have $9,295,376 in cap room. They could go either direction here -- they can waive their mid-level & bi-annual and use the room, then they'd get the Room exception to spend, for a total of $13,623,376. Or they could spend the non-tax MLE and BAE, for a total of $11,696,000 (plus keep Bird rights to Ennis & Robinson, if they want).
On the other extreme, if they waive Black before his salary guarantees, waive Nwaba, Young opts out, and they lose their pick to Philly, they'd have a team salary of $73,511,374, giving them cap room of $27,511,374.
Note that this is above the 0-6 year max, but prime free agents who qualify for this max are typically restricted. The 7-9 year max will be about $30,300,000 (this is the range that Blake Griffin will be in, for example), and the Lakers will be short -- even in the "best" case scenario where they lose their pick & Black. The 10+ year max will be about $35,350,000, and the Lakers will be well short.
And just to give a middle scenario, let's say the Lakers get the #2 pick, lose Black & Young, and keep Nwaba. They'd be at $81,087,797, with $19,912,203 -- enough for an average-to-good starter.
One other point to make is that the Lakers COULD choose to waive & stretch Deng if a star player wants to come here and the team needs the cap space. Doing so would add $9,475,714 to their cap space this year, at the cost of $7,714,286 being dead weight on their payroll for the next seven years. |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:59 am Post subject: |
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LarryCoon wrote: | Or they could spend the non-tax MLE and BAE, for a total of $11,696,000 (plus keep Bird rights to Ennis & Robinson, if they want).
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how would we have Bird Rights on Robinson? |
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70sdude Star Player
Joined: 05 Feb 2009 Posts: 4567
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:00 am Post subject: |
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Larry,
Thanks for helping old guys like me get a better grasp for the range and types of scenarios ahead. |
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Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46490
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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So we will have the room exception and veteran minimums to fill out the roster, assuming we trade half of the roster. I wonder who we might target with the exception and veterans minimum contract. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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Here's to an exceptional team. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46490
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Here's to an exceptional team. |
Yeah, I'm sure the tank talk is getting annoying.. it's time to get back to Lakers winning basketball... let's see what Magic and Rob have up there sleeve. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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So if we do waive Nwaba we can still sign him to a vet min contract? _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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deal Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2008 Posts: 14900 Location: Earth
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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70sdude wrote: | Larry,
Thanks for helping old guys like me get a better grasp for the range and types of scenarios ahead. |
+1 _________________ Lakers need to build a freaking team ! |
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dcarter4kobe Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jul 2005 Posts: 17656
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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LarryCoon wrote: | Current cap projection is $101M.
Non-taxpayer MLE will be $8,406,000
Room exception will be $4,328,000
Bi-Annual exception will be $3,290,000
The Lakers' cap room will depend on what happens with their own pick, and Black & Young (and to a small extent, Nwaba). If they keep Black & Nwaba, and Young opts in, and they get the #1 pick, then their team salary is $91,704,624 and they have $9,295,376 in cap room. They could go either direction here -- they can waive their mid-level & bi-annual and use the room, then they'd get the Room exception to spend, for a total of $13,623,376. Or they could spend the non-tax MLE and BAE, for a total of $11,696,000 (plus keep Bird rights to Ennis & Robinson, if they want).
On the other extreme, if they waive Black before his salary guarantees, waive Nwaba, Young opts out, and they lose their pick to Philly, they'd have a team salary of $73,511,374, giving them cap room of $27,511,374.
Note that this is above the 0-6 year max, but prime free agents who qualify for this max are typically restricted. The 7-9 year max will be about $30,300,000 (this is the range that Blake Griffin will be in, for example), and the Lakers will be short -- even in the "best" case scenario where they lose their pick & Black. The 10+ year max will be about $35,350,000, and the Lakers will be well short.
And just to give a middle scenario, let's say the Lakers get the #2 pick, lose Black & Young, and keep Nwaba. They'd be at $81,087,797, with $19,912,203 -- enough for an average-to-good starter.
One other point to make is that the Lakers COULD choose to waive & stretch Deng if a star player wants to come here and the team needs the cap space. Doing so would add $9,475,714 to their cap space this year, at the cost of $7,714,286 being dead weight on their payroll for the next seven years. |
These exact numbers are a little depressing. Also goes to show the impact of those MozDeng contracts, with the loss of flexibility, even though people will still defend them. The projected cap going from 108M to 101M didn't help either.
20M might not be enough to even get a guy like Ibaka or Jrue. Makes my preference of punting more realistic IMO. Find 2 good players on 1y/10M deals and try to find a steal with the room exception. Seth Curry, Waiters, Dedmon, James Johnson all signed deals around 3-4M last year. _________________ "He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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iimarshon Star Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2007 Posts: 2673
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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Once we draft a player is there a cap hold or can we go over the cap to sign them?
Like - if cap is 101 can we use the 101 and then sign our draft picks plus have vet mins and our 4m room exception _________________ 24 |
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Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46490
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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dcarter4kobe wrote: | LarryCoon wrote: | Current cap projection is $101M.
Non-taxpayer MLE will be $8,406,000
Room exception will be $4,328,000
Bi-Annual exception will be $3,290,000
The Lakers' cap room will depend on what happens with their own pick, and Black & Young (and to a small extent, Nwaba). If they keep Black & Nwaba, and Young opts in, and they get the #1 pick, then their team salary is $91,704,624 and they have $9,295,376 in cap room. They could go either direction here -- they can waive their mid-level & bi-annual and use the room, then they'd get the Room exception to spend, for a total of $13,623,376. Or they could spend the non-tax MLE and BAE, for a total of $11,696,000 (plus keep Bird rights to Ennis & Robinson, if they want).
On the other extreme, if they waive Black before his salary guarantees, waive Nwaba, Young opts out, and they lose their pick to Philly, they'd have a team salary of $73,511,374, giving them cap room of $27,511,374.
Note that this is above the 0-6 year max, but prime free agents who qualify for this max are typically restricted. The 7-9 year max will be about $30,300,000 (this is the range that Blake Griffin will be in, for example), and the Lakers will be short -- even in the "best" case scenario where they lose their pick & Black. The 10+ year max will be about $35,350,000, and the Lakers will be well short.
And just to give a middle scenario, let's say the Lakers get the #2 pick, lose Black & Young, and keep Nwaba. They'd be at $81,087,797, with $19,912,203 -- enough for an average-to-good starter.
One other point to make is that the Lakers COULD choose to waive & stretch Deng if a star player wants to come here and the team needs the cap space. Doing so would add $9,475,714 to their cap space this year, at the cost of $7,714,286 being dead weight on their payroll for the next seven years. |
These exact numbers are a little depressing. Also goes to show the impact of those MozDeng contracts, with the loss of flexibility, even though people will still defend them. The projected cap going from 108M to 101M didn't help either.
20M might not be enough to even get a guy like Ibaka or Jrue. Makes my preference of punting more realistic IMO. Find 2 good players on 1y/10M deals and try to find a steal with the room exception. Seth Curry, Waiters, Dedmon, James Johnson all signed deals around 3-4M last year. |
We will get someone. despite cap limits, I have big faith in Magic and Pelinka working there game. |
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Bard207 Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2013 Posts: 7713
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Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:13 am Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | So if we do waive Nwaba we can still sign him to a vet min contract? |
Based on the transaction history of
Tony Wroten, probably so.
Quote: |
December 24, 2015: Waived by the Philadelphia 76ers.
March 16, 2016: Signed a contract with the New York Knicks
June 22, 2016: Waived by the New York Knicks.
June 24, 2016: Claimed on waivers by the Memphis Grizzlies from the New York Knicks
July 12, 2016: Waived by the Memphis Grizzlies.
August 8, 2016: Signed a contract with the Memphis Grizzlies
October 7, 2016: Waived by the Memphis Grizzlies.
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Bard207 Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2013 Posts: 7713
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Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:24 am Post subject: |
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iimarshon wrote: | Once we draft a player is there a cap hold or can we go over the cap to sign them?
Like - if cap is 101 can we use the 101 and then sign our draft picks plus have vet mins and our 4m room exception |
From the new CBA...
Quote: |
First Round Picks.
(1) A First Round Pick, immediately upon selection in the Draft,
shall be included in the Team Salary of the Team that holds his
draft rights at one hundred twenty percent (120%) of his applicable
Rookie Scale Amount (“Rookie Scale Cap Hold Amount”), and,
subject to Section 4(e)(2) and (3) below, shall continue to be
included in the Team Salary of any Team that holds his draft rights
(including any Team to which the player’s draft rights are assigned)
until such time as the player signs with such Team or until the
Team loses or assigns its exclusive draft rights to the player.
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...................Salary scale for 2017 first round picks.........Cap Hold of 120%
#1......................$5,855,200...........................................$7,026,240
#2......................$5,238,800...........................................$6,286,560.
#3......................$4,704,500...........................................$5,645,400
.
.
.
#28.....................$1,179,100...........................................$1,414,920 |
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LarryCoon Site Staff
Joined: 11 Aug 2002 Posts: 11264
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Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:52 am Post subject: |
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adkindo wrote: | how would we have Bird Rights on Robinson? |
Bird rights ramp up over three years, and there are one- and two-year versions of them. |
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LarryCoon Site Staff
Joined: 11 Aug 2002 Posts: 11264
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Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:59 am Post subject: |
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iimarshon wrote: | Once we draft a player is there a cap hold or can we go over the cap to sign them?
Like - if cap is 101 can we use the 101 and then sign our draft picks plus have vet mins and our 4m room exception |
There IS an exception for first round draft picks (called the Rookie exception). First round draft picks fall under a salary scale, with teams having the flexibility to give the player from 80% to 120% of the scale amount (usually it's the full 120%). The Rookie exception gives the team the ability to sign its own first round picks for up to the full 120% of scale.
The catch is that when the team has the ability to use an exception to sign a player, the cap formula sets aside that money in the form of a cap hold. For example, if the Lakers get the #1 pick, then 120% of scale would be about $7 million. That amount is added to their payroll as a cap hold, which reduces the amount the team has available to chase other free agents. (The hold used to be 100% of scale, and not the full 120%, but they changed it in the new CBA.)
Bottom line, if the Lakers get the #1 pick, their cap room goes down by $7 million; if they get #2 it goes down by $6.3 million; and if they get #3 it goes down by $5.6 million. |
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LarryCoon Site Staff
Joined: 11 Aug 2002 Posts: 11264
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Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:01 am Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | So if we do waive Nwaba we can still sign him to a vet min contract? |
Teams always have the ability to sign any player to a minimum salary contract.
There are a couple exceptions -- for example, if a team trades a player away and the receiving team waives him, the trading team can't sign the player again for one year (or until the waived contract would have expired, whichever is sooner). But those exceptions don't apply here. |
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nash Star Player
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 Posts: 8194
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Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:10 am Post subject: |
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Larry, if we stand pat for a season are we supposed to have the money to sign a max free agent in 2018?
Last edited by nash on Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:32 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Bard207 Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2013 Posts: 7713
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Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:27 am Post subject: |
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LarryCoon wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | So if we do waive Nwaba we can still sign him to a vet min contract? |
Teams always have the ability to sign any player to a minimum salary contract.
There are a couple exceptions -- for example, if a team trades a player away and the receiving team waives him, the trading team can't sign the player again for one year (or until the waived contract would have expired, whichever is sooner). But those exceptions don't apply here. |
There is something that I have been wondering about for a while.
In your current 100. When can't a player be traded? Can players be given "no-trade" clauses in their contracts?
Quote: |
A team cannot reacquire a player they traded away during that season (a season being July 1 - June 30). If he is waived by his new team, then he cannot re-sign with his original team until the one-year anniversary of the trade, or until the July 1 following the end of his contract, whichever comes first. However, if a team trades a player's draft rights, they can reacquire the player during the same season.
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Quote: | (h) If a Team trades a player and the assignee Team subsequently
places the player on waivers, the assignor Team shall not be permitted to
sign the player to a new Contract (or claim the player off of waivers)
before the earlier of: (i) one (1) year following the date all conditions to the
trade were satisfied; or (ii) the July 1 following the last Season of the
player’s Player Contract. |
A team would be able to reacquire a player via trade that they had traded away earlier in the same season? Not that it would be done very often, but was looking for clarity on the possibility since I haven't found anything yet preventing it. |
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iimarshon Star Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2007 Posts: 2673
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Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:37 am Post subject: |
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LarryCoon wrote: | iimarshon wrote: | Once we draft a player is there a cap hold or can we go over the cap to sign them?
Like - if cap is 101 can we use the 101 and then sign our draft picks plus have vet mins and our 4m room exception |
There IS an exception for first round draft picks (called the Rookie exception). First round draft picks fall under a salary scale, with teams having the flexibility to give the player from 80% to 120% of the scale amount (usually it's the full 120%). The Rookie exception gives the team the ability to sign its own first round picks for up to the full 120% of scale.
The catch is that when the team has the ability to use an exception to sign a player, the cap formula sets aside that money in the form of a cap hold. For example, if the Lakers get the #1 pick, then 120% of scale would be about $7 million. That amount is added to their payroll as a cap hold, which reduces the amount the team has available to chase other free agents. (The hold used to be 100% of scale, and not the full 120%, but they changed it in the new CBA.)
Bottom line, if the Lakers get the #1 pick, their cap room goes down by $7 million; if they get #2 it goes down by $6.3 million; and if they get #3 it goes down by $5.6 million. |
Damn.
So in a sense - if Indiana said "the pick or Dangelo" - Dangelo would be a cheaper cap hold - even if just slightly, around ~1m. _________________ 24 |
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