He's playing mostly with teammates that can't space the floor at all. Maybe this will help him develop other parts of his game eventually. His assists numbers will suffer playing with so many below average shooters. _________________ Showtime 2.0
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:02 am Post subject:
scooterp10 wrote:
I just don't understand why Kuzma didn't get the start at the 3 and why Nance had so many more minutes then Randle. If we're trying to win, the Deng doesn't see the court.
You need guys out there that will at least try to score when Lonzo gets them a good look. Deng and Nance are basically non factors offensively.
Because Kuzma isn’t good enough to earn the start. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:05 am Post subject:
Megaton wrote:
How about having Lonzo actually getting the ball back in the half court and his teammates actually shooting the damn ball when they are given the open look from him?
That would be a good start instead of constantly harping on Lonzo needing shooters or him having to be a scorer.
Wait, I read a few posts ago that our guys shooting after he got them the ball was a problem? _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:11 am Post subject:
Don Draper wrote:
adkindo wrote:
epak wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Lonzo has a gift, but it isn't a take over type gift. He's a force multiplier.
But that's a good thing right?
but its just words....it is an attempt to create blind faith....there is no proof of it....look at his on/off numbers.....at UCLA...all those guys in SL (Alford and Leaf) produced at similar per 36 levels as they did with Ball @ UCLA. In SL, the team never lost a game without him....but lose two with him. I have seen negligible impact from him in the preseason or tonight.
Not saying he will not develop into a good player....but the excuses and claims on LG are simply things said to fulfill preconceived opinions.
And you said I was the one with the knee jerk reaction regarding Luke?
Not surprised though. A segment of LG will grow to hate Lonzo, just like they hated DLO.
unless my memory has failed me, I did not say this to you?
I just don't understand why Kuzma didn't get the start at the 3 and why Nance had so many more minutes then Randle. If we're trying to win, the Deng doesn't see the court.
You need guys out there that will at least try to score when Lonzo gets them a good look. Deng and Nance are basically non factors offensively.
Because Kuzma isn’t good enough to earn the start.
There is nothing at this stage that Deng can do better then Kuzma. On top of that, Lonzo and Kuzma have good chemistry and he can finish.
How about having Lonzo actually getting the ball back in the half court and his teammates actually shooting the damn ball when they are given the open look from him?
That would be a good start instead of constantly harping on Lonzo needing shooters or him having to be a scorer.
Wait, I read a few posts ago that our guys shooting after he got them the ball was a problem?
Did you even watch the game?
Lopez Shot and was off, 7-19
Ingram shot it just about every time, 3-15
Nance wouldn't shoot open half the time and missed when he did, 0-3 away from the basket.
Deng didn't shoot.
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:32 am Post subject:
greenfrog wrote:
adkindo wrote:
epak wrote:
Today wasnt a good game for the team as a whole including ball. What excuses are people making?
come on epak...there are dozens in the last couple hours laying blame at the feet of the other 14 players for Lonzo's lack of production. The narrative has quickly switched from SL "he makes everyone better" to "he needs better teammates" since preseason began.
Do you not understand how assists work? I know you're a Clarkson fan so anything besides volume scoring probably doesn't do it for you, but players have to be willing to let him create the shot (let's not even get into actually making the shot). Lopez was the only one who met that small requirement.
And there's been no narrative change. From the moment he was drafted some of us have stressed that even scrubs with a basic ability to take and make open jumpshots would be more useful than many of these players. I saw Kevin McHale basically say the same thing last Friday so maybe he's a secret LG apologist.
your better than this bs deflection.....who gives a rats ass if I like Clarkson? He has nothing to do with Ball. There has been a 180 degree narrative change....exactly as I stated.
Before he was going to do so much for these guys games....going to help Randle, Clarkson, Nance....and everyone he plays with play better. That was the hype....that was what you and many others were selling. If that happens this season, then you were correct, but I just did not see it in preseason or last night....and as I said, I never bought into that claim even in college. Leaf was a 5 Star prospect, and Lonzo got credit for his game? Now, you and those same people are telling me that those same players that he was going to make so much better need to be replaced with better players.
Many of these LG posts claim he needs good shooters, guys that can finish, better defenders.....what PG could not be effective if he was surrounded by guys that can do everything? If guys hit all their open jumpers and finished at a high rate, most NBA PG's would look good.
I can't say I'm overly surprised at the debut, probably the best or certainly a top 5 defensive guard defending him his first game is just about as "baptism by fire" as it gets.
I was wondering today though how much the narrative afterward would have changed if a few of those misses turn into assists for him and he posted 3pts 9 reb 7 ast if he'd still be catching hell like he has today. I mean by any standard a 19 year old PG coming in and posting that line in his first game without shooting his team out of the game (which lets face it, Lonzo didn't do at 1-6) is worthy of praise.
This is this bizarre double standard with Lonzo that I think is partly his Dad putting the spotlight on him and partly the gleeful attitude the rest of the league get when the Lakers are getting their asses beat. I mean his first preseason game nobody seemed to want to talk about 8 assists to 3 turnovers whilst he grabbed 7 boards, they wanted to focus on 2-9 shooting.
My point is the kid is out there doing very good things on the court but more often than not it's always going to be the one bad aspect of his game that will be the focus so essentially unless he plays fantastic people are going to give him (bleep).
I respect how Lonzo acts about it too. He seems to get the only way to shut people up is to win; you get the same narrative after every game it's never about what he did or didn't do when you ask him it's about whether the team won or lost which is a remarkable attitude for a kid in his position. People seem to project their feelings for Lavar onto Lonzo which is understandable I suppose but I find it pretty funny because Lonzo himself is a pretty stoic, team first sort of person. All this talk of Beverley bullying him I didn't really see him look shaken or intimidated which is kind of admirable when you consider a ripped up dude who is 10 years old than you is getting in your face in front of a national audience.
This was a pretty rambling post but basically this game doesn't change my opinion of Lonzo or of how good I think he can be. I've said this before but on some nights those shots that clang are going to swish and those passes that get fumbled or followed with misses are going to be assists. On those nights his lines are going to look monsterous because the potential is definitely there for this guy. It is blatant.
I'm in his corner anyway.
Oh and we shouldn't have traded DLo, etc. No fight in this team and so forth. Need more shooters yadda yadda. Free the Kuz, humina humina.
Frustrating to see Lonzo give the ball up early to push the pace but never get it back...
Also can't understand why he's never utilized on back door cuts for easy dunks / layups...this goes back to preseason and even summer league. Back door cuts are one of his strengths and he would routinely get 2 to 3 easy buckets per game with them at UCLA. They should try running some set plays for him for easy looks to get him going.
He was probably a little too deferential last night, although it was understandable as it was the 1st game and he was looking to get other guys going. I'd like to see him be a little more aggressive in looking for his own shot even though he didn't shoot the ball particularly well.
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:43 am Post subject:
123Cancun wrote:
Frustrating to see Lonzo give the ball up early to push the pace but never get it back...
Also can't understand why he's never utilized on back door cuts for easy dunks / layups...this goes back to preseason and even summer league. Back door cuts are one of his strengths and he would routinely get 2 to 3 easy buckets per game with them at UCLA. They should try running some set plays for him for easy looks to get him going.
He was probably a little too deferential last night, although it was understandable as it was the 1st game and he was looking to get other guys going. I'd like to see him be a little more aggressive in looking for his own shot even though he didn't shoot the ball particularly well.
I am sure those will happen some nights, but Pat Beverly is not known for getting beat on back cuts.....I doubt or at least unsure if those were available last night. Also, not sure how well he can make quick slashes/cuts if his ankle is still healing.
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:45 am Post subject:
adkindo wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
adkindo wrote:
epak wrote:
Today wasnt a good game for the team as a whole including ball. What excuses are people making?
come on epak...there are dozens in the last couple hours laying blame at the feet of the other 14 players for Lonzo's lack of production. The narrative has quickly switched from SL "he makes everyone better" to "he needs better teammates" since preseason began.
Do you not understand how assists work? I know you're a Clarkson fan so anything besides volume scoring probably doesn't do it for you, but players have to be willing to let him create the shot (let's not even get into actually making the shot). Lopez was the only one who met that small requirement.
And there's been no narrative change. From the moment he was drafted some of us have stressed that even scrubs with a basic ability to take and make open jumpshots would be more useful than many of these players. I saw Kevin McHale basically say the same thing last Friday so maybe he's a secret LG apologist.
your better than this bs deflection.....who gives a rats ass if I like Clarkson? He has nothing to do with Ball. There has been a 180 degree narrative change....exactly as I stated.
Before he was going to do so much for these guys games....going to help Randle, Clarkson, Nance....and everyone he plays with play better. That was the hype....that was what you and many others were selling. If that happens this season, then you were correct, but I just did not see it in preseason or last night....and as I said, I never bought into that claim even in college. Leaf was a 5 Star prospect, and Lonzo got credit for his game? Now, you and those same people are telling me that those same players that he was going to make so much better need to be replaced with better players.
Many of these LG posts claim he needs good shooters, guys that can finish, better defenders.....what PG could not be effective if he was surrounded by guys that can do everything? If guys hit all their open jumpers and finished at a high rate, most NBA PG's would look good.
Don't lump me in with those people. I've consistently said he has no impact on iso players (nobody does, they're friggin iso players!) If anyone was expecting that then they're either foolish or didn't fully understand his game.
TJ Leaf had shooting and post skills. Lonzo could amplify him. I've never seen better post feeds in my life than what he was giving Leaf last season, which is why in the long run I expect him to help Brook.
It wasn't deflection, either. I don't think you really value passing or assists.
Last edited by greenfrog on Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:38 am; edited 1 time in total
I didn't get to see the entire game, but Lonzo did some really nice things out there, especially since this was his first game since the injury. Unfortunately a lot of our guys struggled to score last night and that just hurts Lonzo. I'm curious to see see how things go tonight since Lopez should have a much easier matchup tonight.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:47 am Post subject:
scooterp10 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
scooterp10 wrote:
I just don't understand why Kuzma didn't get the start at the 3 and why Nance had so many more minutes then Randle. If we're trying to win, the Deng doesn't see the court.
You need guys out there that will at least try to score when Lonzo gets them a good look. Deng and Nance are basically non factors offensively.
Because Kuzma isn’t good enough to earn the start.
There is nothing at this stage that Deng can do better then Kuzma. On top of that, Lonzo and Kuzma have good chemistry and he can finish.
Deng is a better 3 point shooter and defender. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
I just don't understand why Kuzma didn't get the start at the 3 and why Nance had so many more minutes then Randle. If we're trying to win, the Deng doesn't see the court.
You need guys out there that will at least try to score when Lonzo gets them a good look. Deng and Nance are basically non factors offensively.
Because Kuzma isn’t good enough to earn the start.
There is nothing at this stage that Deng can do better then Kuzma. On top of that, Lonzo and Kuzma have good chemistry and he can finish.
Lonzo is still in training mode!!! So we're gonna throw away another season so that we could give our "starting" PG experience. Maybe he will be great someday but not this year. He should have been coming off the bench this year and gain experience. Nice going Magic!
Well, can't blame them. Lakers gets clicks. Lonzo gets clicks.
But can someone explain to me what Patty actually did to deter Lonzo's game? I mean, there were a couple of plays where Patty overplaying Lonzo allowed for Brook or Nance (I forget which one) to get an open look because Patty didn't switch off in time.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:31 am Post subject:
Stumpy25 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
scooterp10 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
scooterp10 wrote:
I just don't understand why Kuzma didn't get the start at the 3 and why Nance had so many more minutes then Randle. If we're trying to win, the Deng doesn't see the court.
You need guys out there that will at least try to score when Lonzo gets them a good look. Deng and Nance are basically non factors offensively.
Because Kuzma isn’t good enough to earn the start.
There is nothing at this stage that Deng can do better then Kuzma. On top of that, Lonzo and Kuzma have good chemistry and he can finish.
Deng is a better 3 point shooter and defender.
Maybe 5 years ago.
And in the preseason _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:32 am Post subject:
lakersfever714 wrote:
Lonzo is still in training mode!!! So we're gonna throw away another season so that we could give our "starting" PG experience. Maybe he will be great someday but not this year. He should have been coming off the bench this year and gain experience. Nice going Magic!
The skeptic in my tells me that we don't have a veteran PG so that Luke has no choice but to play Lonzo. I totally agree he is in training mode, he just needs to gain some experience. He will be fine. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
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