OFFICIAL LONZO BALL THREAD
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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:25 pm    Post subject:

LakersNewEra wrote:
LaMelo is more along the lines of a Chris Mullin, Reggie Miller..guys like that. Guys with a form a little unorthodox but nonetheless were great shooters.
Lets make a political metaphor here. Lets say political center is the ideal shootinf form. Well LaMelo is slightly left or right, whichever you will....on the other hand Lonzo is extreme. His shooting form is extreme. No way is it comparable to LaMelo who is a great great shooter despite a shooting form thats a bit different.

Also, LaMelo gets compared to Curry, best shooter ever. Yet you're saying hes going to be worse than Lonzo, one of the worst shooters ever statistically? Doesnt work like that.
Also yes LaMelo's shooting selection is bad in a Kobe kinda way bad. Its bad because hes got ability and he knows it. Lonzo on the other hand doesnt have abillity. His shot selecton is bad because he is bad. And its historically bad.

No comparison. Besides LaMelo shoots anyway possible over people, release is fast, he is the real deal and rightly compared to Curry IMO. He's fine with the shooting form as it is for him, just like Mullen and Reggie were fine.


I find it so unjust. Comparing just 1 aspect doesn't mean the entire game/talent/skill is similar.

I find this especially mindboggling. The level of discipline (outside of just shooting skill) between Stephen Curry and LaMelo Ball is so far apart.

Mullin was a textbook shooter. Miller was only slightly off. LaMelo Ball, like Lonzo Ball, is WAY off, like right elbow almost perpendicular to the body, instead of aligned.

But you know, Lonzo shot well in HS and UCLA, and all of sudden NBA he can't shoot, but I guess that's not supposed to happen to LaMelo, right?

AT LEAST I can buy/understand Trae Young/Stephen Curry comparisons.
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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:28 pm    Post subject:

Nash Vegas wrote:
Enough with the LaMelo talk and get back on topic about Lonzo.

ps LaMelo > Curry in HS


Lenny Cooke, Felipe Lopez, DeJuan Wagner, and Monta Ellis >>>> LaMelo > Curry in HS.
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Nash Vegas
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:35 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
Enough with the LaMelo talk and get back on topic about Lonzo.

ps LaMelo > Curry in HS


Lenny Cooke, Felipe Lopez, DeJuan Wagner, and Monta Ellis >>>> LaMelo > Curry in HS.


LeBron, Kobe >>>> Lenny Cooke, Felipe Lopez, DeJuan Wagner, and Monta Ellis >>>> LaMelo > Curry in HS.
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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:44 pm    Post subject:

^My point is, Wagner and Ellis both averaged over 40ppg in HS. Looked lights out. Ran over defenders to the hoop. Outquicked everyone. Doesn't mean a damn thing.
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epak
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:46 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
^My point is, Wagner and Ellis both averaged over 40ppg in HS. Looked lights out. Ran over defenders to the hoop. Outquicked everyone. Doesn't mean a damn thing.


We get you Mike. Well most of us do
And I for one appreciate your sanity.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:54 pm    Post subject:

I have Ball offensively pegged and maxed out as a three point spot up shooter who will over three years develop a floater.

No driving to the cup, no in between jumpers, and no shooting off the bounce.

He can still be a great player though. Just closer to Robert Horry offensively than Kylie Irving.
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Nash Vegas
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:59 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
^My point is, Wagner and Ellis both averaged over 40ppg in HS. Looked lights out. Ran over defenders to the hoop. Outquicked everyone. Doesn't mean a damn thing.


And my point was that it goes both ways. Kobe avg 31/12 and LeBron 32/10 in HS. And like you say, looked lights out. Ran over defenders to the hoop. Outquicked everyone. And it meant a damn something because they became NBA stars. It goes both ways.
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PHILosophize
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:11 pm    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
Kylie Irving.


ouch
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epak
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:12 pm    Post subject:

Nash Vegas wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
^My point is, Wagner and Ellis both averaged over 40ppg in HS. Looked lights out. Ran over defenders to the hoop. Outquicked everyone. Doesn't mean a damn thing.


And my point was that it goes both ways. Kobe avg 31/12 and LeBron 32/10 in HS. And like you say, looked lights out. Ran over defenders to the hoop. Outquicked everyone. And it meant a damn something because they became NBA stars. It goes both ways.


Depends what the argument is. Isn't the argument: Melo will be Steph Curry in the NBA? The argument about other guys putting up better numbers than Curry in high school and not fairing so well in the NBA is evidence that says A does not guarantee B.

Your point of Kobe and Lebron being better than Curry in high school, doesn't support the argument that Melo will be Steph. It's more of an argument against: Melo will never be Steph.

And I don't think anyone is making this argument. I think most are saying, it's too soon to know.
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Nash Vegas
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:56 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
^My point is, Wagner and Ellis both averaged over 40ppg in HS. Looked lights out. Ran over defenders to the hoop. Outquicked everyone. Doesn't mean a damn thing.


And my point was that it goes both ways. Kobe avg 31/12 and LeBron 32/10 in HS. And like you say, looked lights out. Ran over defenders to the hoop. Outquicked everyone. And it meant a damn something because they became NBA stars. It goes both ways.


Depends what the argument is. Isn't the argument: Melo will be Steph Curry in the NBA? The argument about other guys putting up better numbers than Curry in high school and not fairing so well in the NBA is evidence that says A does not guarantee B.

Your point of Kobe and Lebron being better than Curry in high school, doesn't support the argument that Melo will be Steph. It's more of an argument against: Melo will never be Steph.

And I don't think anyone is making this argument. I think most are saying, it's too soon to know.


You didn’t get my point then. I wasn’t even making any argument. I just said a fact that LaMelo > Curry right now in HS. Then all of a sudden Mike chimes in with Wagner and Ellis as an example to make an argument that great HS don’t mean a damn in the NBA, so then I chimed in and countered with an example of Kobe and LeBron to say that the HS argument can go both ways. Everyone here seem to be so edgy and sensitive especially about Zo and thinks everything that’s said has to be an argument.
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PHILosophize
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:04 pm    Post subject:

Nash Vegas, I love you, but your point is a perfect example of the straw man fallacy.

Mike was not saying that no player who plays insanely well in HS will become a good NBA player; he was saying that playing insanely well in HS is not a reliable predictor of NBA success.

Your cited examples (Kobe and LeBron) don't refute his point; they only refute a weaker, distorted version of his point.

And you were definitely making an argument. The vast majority of statements made on this forum are arguments.
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Nash Vegas
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:30 pm    Post subject:

PHILosophize wrote:
Nash Vegas, I love you, but your point is a perfect example of the straw man fallacy.

Mike was not saying that no player who plays insanely well in HS will become a good NBA player; he was saying that playing insanely well in HS is not a reliable predictor of NBA success.

Your cited examples (Kobe and LeBron) don't refute his point; they only refute a weaker, distorted version of his point.

And you were definitely making an argument. The vast majority of statements made on this forum are arguments.


Eh it was an opinion, i was moving on. Wasn’t even quoting anyone here.

Nash Vegas wrote:
Enough with the LaMelo talk and get back on topic about Lonzo.

ps LaMelo > Curry in HS


And believe me, I completely understood Mike’s “main” point, but the examples used to make that point were nebulous, which is why I played along and countered with my own names. Would’ve been better to just have said those points straight out which I totally agree with.

Oh and I love you too PHILosophize <3
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:38 pm    Post subject:

Lonzo thread talking about Melo and Curry.
Clarkson thread talking about Kuzma and Randle.

Stay on topic guys
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PHILosophize
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:52 pm    Post subject:

we haven't played a game in like a week - there's not much to talk about
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:03 pm    Post subject:

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As Lonzo struggles to get his FG% up let's never forget that John Wall once shot 7% from 3 for a whole season. I'm not at all saying Lonzo is gonna be the caliber of player John Wall is. I'm saying John Wall shot 7% from 3 for a whole season.


https://twitter.com/dragonflyjonez/status/938565115116433413
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LakersNewEra
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:19 pm    Post subject:

Here is a breakdown of LaMelo's shooting mechanics.

https://youtu.be/dJFrTRRztg8

He is an absolute shooting phenom! Comparisons to Curry are very much unavoidable and on point. As you can see, there is either very little thats wrong with his shooting or in a lot of cases a lot of things he does with his feet and his hips actually make it possible for him to generate that power and shoot from deep. His range is already ridiculous and bear in mind he will get stronger.
I especially liked the point that LaMelo is laser focused on the rim even before the final dribble, his hand eye coordination.

All in all, LaMelo will be amazing and yes IMO he is already better than Lonzo, especially for the NBA.
He just needs to learn the game, needs to learn to play in a system etc. That will come. But the individual talent is there and it looks amazing.

Lonzo on the other hand doesnt have that kind of ceiling IMO. I dont think its even close but Lonzo can become a good player in his own right if he improves his shooting.
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LakersNewEra
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:23 pm    Post subject:

The best thing about having Lonzo on the roster is that it gives you a much better chance of getting LaMelo at some point. Thats what LaVar is working on anyway and hey, I donr have a problem with that lol.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:48 pm    Post subject:

Jordan-esque wrote:
Can't really compare both Lonzo and Lamelo. They have different play styles. One is supposedly Jason Kidd while the other is supposedly Steph Curry. How do you compare that?


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adkindo
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:50 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
LaMelo isn't better than Lonzo. Ball-handling? Sure. People forgot Lonzo was lights out last year at UCLA already?

Imagine your PG with LaMelo's shot selection. How is that going to work out?

Jason Williams.


no need to sully the good name of White Chocolate
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:52 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
No one could dare imagine Zo would struggle.


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adkindo
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:54 pm    Post subject:

PHILosophize wrote:
cthroatgtr wrote:
Lamelo has a messed up shot as well. Who taught these kids shooting form? Sorry Lavar you did them no favors if you let them develop such poor shot form. Lonzo can survive as a pass first guard if he can hit his threes. Lamelo seems more of a scorer and that will be shut down as he gets further along.


Agree re: their shooting form. Why is this not corrected when they are in junior high?


you go to Junior High? I find almost everyone my age went to "middle school", and they are always confused when I refer to Junior High.
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:56 pm    Post subject:

PHILosophize wrote:
ARE YOU CALLING LONZO A MEMBER OF THE TEA PARTY?


I think Brian Ross located a Lonzo Ball in the Chino Hills chapter...
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levon
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:45 pm    Post subject:

LakersNewEra wrote:
The best thing about having Lonzo on the roster is that it gives you a much better chance of getting LaMelo at some point. Thats what LaVar is working on anyway and hey, I donr have a problem with that lol.

I can't believe this is a real take. Also what happened to the negativity rules?
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giordan0
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:54 pm    Post subject:

levon wrote:

I can't believe this is a real take. Also what happened to the negativity rules?


Season is a real (bleep) now anyways, can't get worse after end of December.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:03 pm    Post subject:

Lavar and his other kids have nothing to do with the Lakers. What a headache.
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