OFFICIAL LONZO BALL THREAD
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FanOfFour
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:14 am    Post subject:

Are some of you out of state? No access to Lakers postgame shows? Maybe try watching one. It was apparent it was 2 for 1 specifically for the reasoning GoldenThroat mentions. Luke said he wanted the last possession of the game. And I love the fact that no time out was called after the rebound.

Click here.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:17 am    Post subject:

A team that controls the pace of the game controls how the game is played. If you impose your pace on the other team, they have no choice but to play your game. Thats where Lonzo can dominate, thats where he can be special. I am acually thrilled that it was the first thing I noticed, first thing that stood out to me and Magic pretty much tweeted the same, so Magic came away with exactly the same assesment. It was awesome lol, noticing exactly the same thing as Magic!
Its definitely the blueprint for Lonzo. If he is ever going to be a special player, he will do it by playing at a pace that very few can match. In the future maybe him and Ingram will need to work it out chemistry wise as Ingram's ISO style goed against Lonzo's best gift which is pushing the pace so some fine tuning and tweaking will be necessary but as they say, that is tomorrow's problem and shouldnt be too much of a problem.

Either way, extremely encouraged by the game Lonzo played last night. Its not about the stats for him but he showed something amazing last night. Pace is one of the ways to dominate a basketball game. There's only about 4 or 5 ways to dominate a game and pace is one so therefore, very encouraged about Lonzo's play!!!
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:23 am    Post subject:

danzag wrote:
ocho wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
His 9th game with 2+ blocks


Among all PGs Lonzo is:

#1 in blocks
#3 in rebounds
#6 in assists
#10 in steals


B-b-b-b-b-b-but...

This kid's gonna be a STAR.


There are clearly two schools of thought when it comes to Lonzo specifically and basketball players in general

School 1 - players like KAT, Wiggins, Booker and DLO are good because they score points, whoever scores the most points wins...so if you score more than 20 PPG or you are either an elite shot blocker (2+ a game) or an elite defender (2+ Steals a game), or an assist leader (10+ a game)then you are good...otherwise you are a roll player.

School 2 - a combination of stats and attributes can make you a net positive player, scoring is just one of those attributes and not necessarily more important than say rebounds or assists.

I am more in camp 2. If Lonzo was a great scorer but couldn’t rebound or play defense and turned the ball over a ton the more casual fan would think he’s great...but his overall impact on the lakers actually winning would be lower. The “Bust” talk had to do with his statistical aesthetic, the fact that most casual fans care about that one thing. When people say he’s a bust, it tells me that they don’t understand team basketball. Dude cannot shoot right now, I agree, but he’s a damn good basketball player that does everything else at a high level and has multiple elite qualities. He’s no bust, but he’s gonna have to accomplish things like MVP and championships before the more casual fan would understand that.


Last edited by Fortysixn2 on Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:27 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:26 am    Post subject:

LakersNewEra wrote:
A team that controls the pace of the game controls how the game is played. If you impose your pace on the other team, they have no choice but to play your game. Thats where Lonzo can dominate, thats where he can be special. I am acually thrilled that it was the first thing I noticed, first thing that stood out to me and Magic pretty much tweeted the same, so Magic came away with exactly the same assesment. It was awesome lol, noticing exactly the same thing as Magic!
Its definitely the blueprint for Lonzo. If he is ever going to be a special player, he will do it by playing at a pace that very few can match. In the future maybe him and Ingram will need to work it out chemistry wise as Ingram's ISO style goed against Lonzo's best gift which is pushing the pace so some fine tuning and tweaking will be necessary but as they say, that is tomorrow's problem and shouldnt be too much of a problem.

Either way, extremely encouraged by the game Lonzo played last night. Its not about the stats for him but he showed something amazing last night. Pace is one of the ways to dominate a basketball game. There's only about 4 or 5 ways to dominate a game and pace is one so therefore, very encouraged about Lonzo's play!!!



You keep saying it's not about stats. I think part of why you're saying that is because you've stated that you don't care about his other numbers, except for maybe scoring. But that's another discussion.

IMO, I say it's about the impact of the pace as well as the impact of his numbers. Because those numbers help show his activity. Would you have been happy if he had the same pace but was 0-11 instead of 5-11?

Lonzo averages a pace of 105. Yesterday his pace was 103.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:32 am    Post subject:

Fortysixn2 wrote:
danzag wrote:
ocho wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
His 9th game with 2+ blocks


Among all PGs Lonzo is:

#1 in blocks
#3 in rebounds
#6 in assists
#10 in steals


B-b-b-b-b-b-but...

This kid's gonna be a STAR.


There are clearly two schools of thought when it comes to Lonzo specifically and basketball players in general

School 1 - players like KAT, Wiggins, Booker and DLO are good because they score points, whoever scores the most points wins...so if you score more than 20 PPG or you are either an elite shot blocker (2+ a game) or an elite defender (2+ Steals a game), or an assist leader (10+ a game)then you are good...otherwise you are a roll player.

School 2 - a combination of stats and attributes can make you a net positive player, scoring is just one of those attributes and not necessarily more important than say rebounds or assists.

I am more in camp 2. If Lonzo was a great scorer but couldn’t rebound or play defense and turned the ball over a ton the more casual fan would think he’s great...but his overall impact on the lakers actually winning would be lower. The “Bust” talk had to do with his statistical aesthetic, the fact that most casual fans care about that one thing. When people say he’s a bust, it tells me that they don’t understand team basketball. Dude cannot shoot right now, I agree, but he’s a damn good basketball player that does everything else at a high level and has multiple elite qualities. He’s no bust, but he’s gonna have to accomplish things like MVP and championships before the more casual fan would understand that.


Wasn't it in this very thread where people were arguing that the only stat that matters is points and that rebounding and assists don't matter? people have some pretty twisted arguments to downplay Lonzo's impact on the game.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:41 am    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
Zo had 4 blocks.

Hes good at tracking guys after they get by him getting an angle for that block. He also doesn’t let them know where he is so he can avoid contact seekers looking to draw fouls


Notice also when the offensive player tries to draw contact, Lonzo NEVER bites and his reaction is super fact. He immediately puts both hands up. I often see the offensive player getting off balance or throwing up junk.

He's such a good defender, age or not, at the hardest position to defend.


That was really noticeable in the GS game guarding Curry. It threw Steph off a couple times something fierce. I loved watching that.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:49 am    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Like other great role-players, Ball’s career money will be made off catch and shoot jumpers.


He needs more catch and shoot jumpers... but Lonzo ain’t a role player.

Semantics really, but it depends on your own personal definition of the word “role-player”.

For me, calling somone a role-player is far from an insult. Ball, to me, is a high end role player with future contributions on the level of Iguodala, Draymond Green, Rodman, Ben Wallace, and late Kidd.


Fair enough. I think he’ll be able to create more offensively than Draymond and won’t be as good at the dirty work(although who knows after his dominance in that aspect last night) which is why I don’t consider him a role player. You’re right though, especially in the modern NBA, great role players like Draymond and Klay are still stars. I just think he’ll create for his team too much to be considered a role player in his prime.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:56 am    Post subject:

LakersNewEra wrote:
A team that controls the pace of the game controls how the game is played. If you impose your pace on the other team, they have no choice but to play your game. Thats where Lonzo can dominate, thats where he can be special. I am acually thrilled that it was the first thing I noticed, first thing that stood out to me and Magic pretty much tweeted the same, so Magic came away with exactly the same assesment. It was awesome lol, noticing exactly the same thing as Magic!
Its definitely the blueprint for Lonzo. If he is ever going to be a special player, he will do it by playing at a pace that very few can match. In the future maybe him and Ingram will need to work it out chemistry wise as Ingram's ISO style goed against Lonzo's best gift which is pushing the pace so some fine tuning and tweaking will be necessary but as they say, that is tomorrow's problem and shouldnt be too much of a problem.

Either way, extremely encouraged by the game Lonzo played last night. Its not about the stats for him but he showed something amazing last night. Pace is one of the ways to dominate a basketball game. There's only about 4 or 5 ways to dominate a game and pace is one so therefore, very encouraged about Lonzo's play!!!


Don’t break your arm patting yourself on the back. It’s been pretty obvious that Lonzo has an incredible ability to set the pace of a game and control that pace. It’s been that way since he was in HS. It’s been known, if you took a second to try and understand why others like him opposed to pushing your “shooting or bust” narrative you’d probably have noticed it already.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:57 am    Post subject:

Fun interview with Isaiah:

https://youtu.be/DMmu1WqMxRM
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:57 am    Post subject:

epak wrote:
LakersNewEra wrote:
A team that controls the pace of the game controls how the game is played. If you impose your pace on the other team, they have no choice but to play your game. Thats where Lonzo can dominate, thats where he can be special. I am acually thrilled that it was the first thing I noticed, first thing that stood out to me and Magic pretty much tweeted the same, so Magic came away with exactly the same assesment. It was awesome lol, noticing exactly the same thing as Magic!
Its definitely the blueprint for Lonzo. If he is ever going to be a special player, he will do it by playing at a pace that very few can match. In the future maybe him and Ingram will need to work it out chemistry wise as Ingram's ISO style goed against Lonzo's best gift which is pushing the pace so some fine tuning and tweaking will be necessary but as they say, that is tomorrow's problem and shouldnt be too much of a problem.

Either way, extremely encouraged by the game Lonzo played last night. Its not about the stats for him but he showed something amazing last night. Pace is one of the ways to dominate a basketball game. There's only about 4 or 5 ways to dominate a game and pace is one so therefore, very encouraged about Lonzo's play!!!



You keep saying it's not about stats. I think part of why you're saying that is because you've stated that you don't care about his other numbers, except for maybe scoring. But that's another discussion.

IMO, I say it's about the impact of the pace as well as the impact of his numbers. Because those numbers help show his activity. Would you have been happy if he had the same pace but was 0-11 instead of 5-11?

Lonzo averages a pace of 105. Yesterday his pace was 103.


I don't think he means it in the "number of possessions per 48 minutes" sense. There were a number of plays last night where Lonzo imposed his speed on Philly in transition, and got into the paint in half court situations, collapsing the defense.
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defense
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:01 am    Post subject:

Gimme_the_rock wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
Zo had 4 blocks.

Hes good at tracking guys after they get by him getting an angle for that block. He also doesn’t let them know where he is so he can avoid contact seekers looking to draw fouls


Notice also when the offensive player tries to draw contact, Lonzo NEVER bites and his reaction is super fact. He immediately puts both hands up. I often see the offensive player getting off balance or throwing up junk.

He's such a good defender, age or not, at the hardest position to defend.


That was really noticeable in the GS game guarding Curry. It threw Steph off a couple times something fierce. I loved watching that.


Here's the best part about that. It has a lasting effect into future games. You develop a reputation and players start to change their offensive habits because they know you can block their shot. It's a psychological advantage very few PG's have because they cant block shots.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:08 am    Post subject:

defense wrote:
Gimme_the_rock wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
Zo had 4 blocks.

Hes good at tracking guys after they get by him getting an angle for that block. He also doesn’t let them know where he is so he can avoid contact seekers looking to draw fouls


Notice also when the offensive player tries to draw contact, Lonzo NEVER bites and his reaction is super fact. He immediately puts both hands up. I often see the offensive player getting off balance or throwing up junk.

He's such a good defender, age or not, at the hardest position to defend.


That was really noticeable in the GS game guarding Curry. It threw Steph off a couple times something fierce. I loved watching that.


Here's the best part about that. It has a lasting effect into future games. You develop a reputation and players start to change their offensive habits because they know you can block their shot. It's a psychological advantage very few PG's have because they cant block shots.


His timing is insane. I think the only other guy his size that I've ever seen that's comparable is Dwyane Wade. He's averaging 1.0 blocks per game in his rookie season and absolutely altering a lot more shots.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:11 am    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
Fun interview with Isaiah:

https://youtu.be/DMmu1WqMxRM

Amazing. Really lighthearted way of stating how much of this outrage with the Ball family is socioeconomic and racial. And the lady on the right trying to stir up controversy
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:11 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
defense wrote:
Gimme_the_rock wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
Zo had 4 blocks.

Hes good at tracking guys after they get by him getting an angle for that block. He also doesn’t let them know where he is so he can avoid contact seekers looking to draw fouls


Notice also when the offensive player tries to draw contact, Lonzo NEVER bites and his reaction is super fact. He immediately puts both hands up. I often see the offensive player getting off balance or throwing up junk.

He's such a good defender, age or not, at the hardest position to defend.


That was really noticeable in the GS game guarding Curry. It threw Steph off a couple times something fierce. I loved watching that.


Here's the best part about that. It has a lasting effect into future games. You develop a reputation and players start to change their offensive habits because they know you can block their shot. It's a psychological advantage very few PG's have because they cant block shots.


His timing is insane. I think the only other guy his size that I've ever seen that's comparable is Dwyane Wade. He's averaging 1.0 blocks per game in his rookie season and absolutely altering a lot more shots.


He’s got first team all defense potential, I would say DPOY potential but that’ll be really tough with 2 of the best defenders of all time in the league (Kawhi and Draymond).
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:13 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
defense wrote:
Gimme_the_rock wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
Zo had 4 blocks.

Hes good at tracking guys after they get by him getting an angle for that block. He also doesn’t let them know where he is so he can avoid contact seekers looking to draw fouls


Notice also when the offensive player tries to draw contact, Lonzo NEVER bites and his reaction is super fact. He immediately puts both hands up. I often see the offensive player getting off balance or throwing up junk.

He's such a good defender, age or not, at the hardest position to defend.


That was really noticeable in the GS game guarding Curry. It threw Steph off a couple times something fierce. I loved watching that.


Here's the best part about that. It has a lasting effect into future games. You develop a reputation and players start to change their offensive habits because they know you can block their shot. It's a psychological advantage very few PG's have because they cant block shots.


His timing is insane. I think the only other guy his size that I've ever seen that's comparable is Dwyane Wade. He's averaging 1.0 blocks per game in his rookie season and absolutely altering a lot more shots.


Yes timing is the difference between a shot block and a foul. He doesn't foul blocking from the blind side.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:13 am    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
defense wrote:
Gimme_the_rock wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
Zo had 4 blocks.

Hes good at tracking guys after they get by him getting an angle for that block. He also doesn’t let them know where he is so he can avoid contact seekers looking to draw fouls


Notice also when the offensive player tries to draw contact, Lonzo NEVER bites and his reaction is super fact. He immediately puts both hands up. I often see the offensive player getting off balance or throwing up junk.

He's such a good defender, age or not, at the hardest position to defend.


That was really noticeable in the GS game guarding Curry. It threw Steph off a couple times something fierce. I loved watching that.


Here's the best part about that. It has a lasting effect into future games. You develop a reputation and players start to change their offensive habits because they know you can block their shot. It's a psychological advantage very few PG's have because they cant block shots.


His timing is insane. I think the only other guy his size that I've ever seen that's comparable is Dwyane Wade. He's averaging 1.0 blocks per game in his rookie season and absolutely altering a lot more shots.


He’s got first team all defense potential, I would say DPOY potential but that’ll be really tough with 2 of the best defenders of all time in the league (Kawhi and Draymond).


Very impressive considering no one expected anything defensively out of Ball after the draft.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:15 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
defense wrote:
Gimme_the_rock wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
Zo had 4 blocks.

Hes good at tracking guys after they get by him getting an angle for that block. He also doesn’t let them know where he is so he can avoid contact seekers looking to draw fouls


Notice also when the offensive player tries to draw contact, Lonzo NEVER bites and his reaction is super fact. He immediately puts both hands up. I often see the offensive player getting off balance or throwing up junk.

He's such a good defender, age or not, at the hardest position to defend.


That was really noticeable in the GS game guarding Curry. It threw Steph off a couple times something fierce. I loved watching that.


Here's the best part about that. It has a lasting effect into future games. You develop a reputation and players start to change their offensive habits because they know you can block their shot. It's a psychological advantage very few PG's have because they cant block shots.


His timing is insane. I think the only other guy his size that I've ever seen that's comparable is Dwyane Wade. He's averaging 1.0 blocks per game in his rookie season and absolutely altering a lot more shots.


Great point because it’s more than just size. Zo has those other things working for him that impact games in a potent although complimentary way. Not guarding Simmons (props Luke!) was huge with Zo’s effect on D last night. I think it was KIROE who sais Zo possessed street ball smarts on D and I agree. It’s like vet moves and understanding the game on both sides equally well with that timing you astutely mentioned that makes this kid potentially special as he grows.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:17 am    Post subject:

Isaiah Thomas for coach?
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:18 am    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
defense wrote:
Gimme_the_rock wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
Zo had 4 blocks.

Hes good at tracking guys after they get by him getting an angle for that block. He also doesn’t let them know where he is so he can avoid contact seekers looking to draw fouls


Notice also when the offensive player tries to draw contact, Lonzo NEVER bites and his reaction is super fact. He immediately puts both hands up. I often see the offensive player getting off balance or throwing up junk.

He's such a good defender, age or not, at the hardest position to defend.


That was really noticeable in the GS game guarding Curry. It threw Steph off a couple times something fierce. I loved watching that.


Here's the best part about that. It has a lasting effect into future games. You develop a reputation and players start to change their offensive habits because they know you can block their shot. It's a psychological advantage very few PG's have because they cant block shots.


His timing is insane. I think the only other guy his size that I've ever seen that's comparable is Dwyane Wade. He's averaging 1.0 blocks per game in his rookie season and absolutely altering a lot more shots.


He’s got first team all defense potential, I would say DPOY potential but that’ll be really tough with 2 of the best defenders of all time in the league (Kawhi and Draymond).


Very impressive considering no one expected anything defensively out of Ball after the draft.


Nobody expected him to be THIS good but there were a few of us who knew the no defense narrative was bogus. It really never made sense and became popular because Welsh couldn’t guard PnRs and fox tore up the UCLA 3-2 zone.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:22 am    Post subject:

I'm just glad the Ball Busters have had to retreat from the thread today.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:22 am    Post subject:

I've been hard on Zo, but last night he looked like the player we hoped he could be. His shooting remains a huge challenge, but in every other aspect of the game, he played at the level of true impact player.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:22 am    Post subject:

Gimme_the_rock wrote:
Great point because it’s t’s more than just size. Zo has those other things working for him that impact games in a potent although complimentary way. Not guarding Simmons (props Luke!) was huge with Zo’s effect on D last night. I think it was KIROE who sais Zo possessed street ball smarts on D and I agree. It’s like vet moves and understanding the game on both sides equally well with that timing you astutely mentioned that makes this kid potentially special as he grows.


Yeah, his natural instincts are off of the charts. He has A LOT to develop in terms of technique, but I think they're mostly teachable things. Learning how to utilize those techniques and when to utilize them is enough to make him a respectable scorer in a couple of years. Once that happens, he's gonna be a monster, because he has gobs and gobs of the stuff you can't teach.

He's behind other guys his age when it comes to the technique stuff, which I actually think is a reason to be optimistic. There's still a lot of simple, anyone-can-learn-this stuff that he doesn't have down yet. Probably a function of playing a very unconventional style of play prior to the NBA.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:22 am    Post subject:

Loved the pace and energy he brought last night. Vision is always there, he made some shots, and defensively he has some very good moments.

His ability to create shots for himself or others in transition is special. His straight line speed is impressive. Very underrated athlete. Would like to see him in more off ball action.

Good game Zo
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:25 am    Post subject:

Personally, I’d rather have this Ball, the one who plays great defense and can’t shoot straight, over the Ball who shoots great but isn’t interested in playing D.

Nine times out of ten, shooting is easier to improve than is defense.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:29 am    Post subject:

levon wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
Fun interview with Isaiah:

https://youtu.be/DMmu1WqMxRM

Amazing. Really lighthearted way of stating how much of this outrage with the Ball family is socioeconomic and racial. And the lady on the right trying to stir up controversy


Man, it was hilarious when IT started talking about his brother and mom. Funny story.
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