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cal1piggy
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Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 2584
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 Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| The Juggernaut wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | LakerLanny wrote: | Who is a better defender right now at the PG position in the NBA?
I await your answers.
Lonzo Ball aka The Savior is for real and will be converting the disbelievers. |
Here are the stats. This matches up pretty well with my eyeball test.
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/1 |
4 guys ahead of Lonzo play less than 20 MPG. Lonzo is already a top 10 defender at the PG position. The J Kidd comps are looking more and more correct as the season goes on. |
jason kidd
rookie year
fg% - 38.5%
3p% - 28.2%
career
fg% - 40%
3p% - 34.9% |
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GOODRICH25
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Joined: 17 Jun 2017
Posts: 3366
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | FG% and 3PT%
Games 01-10: 29.9% - 23.4%
Games 11-20: 32.1% - 25.5%
Games 21-27: 40.9% - 32.4%
Games 01-27: 33.2% - 26.5%
I like it. Keep at it Lonzo. |
thanks for this, awesome. hes becoming more comfortable each game and his getting into his rhythm, hopefully he can sustain it for a longer period so the problems in his head go away.
btw, could you also post the same for his FT%, although i realize the sample size is too small on those (too many games with zero FT attempts)? |
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AFireInside619
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Joined: 11 Dec 2015
Posts: 11447
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | levon wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | LakerLanny wrote: | Who is a better defender right now at the PG position in the NBA?
I await your answers.
Lonzo Ball aka The Savior is for real and will be converting the disbelievers. |
Here are the stats. This matches up pretty well with my eyeball test.
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/1 |
Why are Simmons' DRPM and DBPM so high? I've watched a few games from him and for the life of me I don't understand what makes him so great a defender in these metrics. He's solid but not outstanding by my eye test. |
He gets a lot of steals, blocks, and rebounds/assists. All three of those are important to DBPM. As for DRPM... well Zach Lowe said early on that Simmons' defense was really good for a rookie, so maybe he's actually just good? I don't have my own opinion there as I haven't watched much of him. |
Simmons gives a lot of effort on defense and he attempts steals and blocks. He has a lot of confidence all around, except for the shooting. |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| The Juggernaut wrote: | | The J Kidd comps are looking more and more correct as the season goes on. |
Pre-draft the two guys who Lonzo was more often compared to were Ricky Rubio and Jason Kidd, which seems pretty accurate. Lonzo's stats are probably as little closer to Ricky's but all three were in the same ballpark as rookies.
I'd say Lonzo's rookie comp group so far is Rubio, Kidd, Fat Lever, and Elfrid Payton. |
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OCWA
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Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 3660
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Lonzo up to number 4 on the CBS sports rookie power rankings. |
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ChickenBeckerman
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Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 2060
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: |
I'd say Lonzo's rookie comp group so far is Rubio, Kidd, Fat Lever, and Elfrid Payton. |
Thumbs up!
I was saying Fat Lever for a long while. A taller more athletic Fat Lever. |
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epak
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| AFireInside619 wrote: | | tox wrote: | | levon wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | LakerLanny wrote: | Who is a better defender right now at the PG position in the NBA?
I await your answers.
Lonzo Ball aka The Savior is for real and will be converting the disbelievers. |
Here are the stats. This matches up pretty well with my eyeball test.
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/1 |
Why are Simmons' DRPM and DBPM so high? I've watched a few games from him and for the life of me I don't understand what makes him so great a defender in these metrics. He's solid but not outstanding by my eye test. |
He gets a lot of steals, blocks, and rebounds/assists. All three of those are important to DBPM. As for DRPM... well Zach Lowe said early on that Simmons' defense was really good for a rookie, so maybe he's actually just good? I don't have my own opinion there as I haven't watched much of him. |
Simmons gives a lot of effort on defense and he attempts steals and blocks. He has a lot of confidence all around, except for the shooting. |
DRPM: Player's estimated on-court impact on team defensive performance, measured in points allowed per 100 defensive possessions.
The lineups Ben Simmons is on gives u less points per 100 defensive possessions then Lonzo's lineups. |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenBeckerman wrote: | | activeverb wrote: |
I'd say Lonzo's rookie comp group so far is Rubio, Kidd, Fat Lever, and Elfrid Payton. |
Thumbs up!
I was saying Fat Lever for a long while. A taller more athletic Fat Lever. |
Fat was a good player before he got injured. I remember I had him on a fantasy team when he was putting up 20-9-8 and 3 steals. He really filled up the scorecard for a few seasons.
Of course that was a big stat era -- I set the Warriors would have only been 5th or 6th in league in scoring some of those years. |
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PHILosophize
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Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Posts: 10758
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | ChickenBeckerman wrote: | | activeverb wrote: |
I'd say Lonzo's rookie comp group so far is Rubio, Kidd, Fat Lever, and Elfrid Payton. |
Thumbs up!
I was saying Fat Lever for a long while. A taller more athletic Fat Lever. |
Fat was a good player before he got injured. I remember I had him on a fantasy team when he was putting up 20-9-8 and 3 steals. He really filled up the scorecard for a few seasons.
Of course that was a big stat era -- I set the Warriors would have only been 5th or 6th in league in scoring some of those years. |
They had fantasy basketball back then?  
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one dog goes that way the other dog goes the other way |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | AFireInside619 wrote: | | tox wrote: | | levon wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | LakerLanny wrote: | Who is a better defender right now at the PG position in the NBA?
I await your answers.
Lonzo Ball aka The Savior is for real and will be converting the disbelievers. |
Here are the stats. This matches up pretty well with my eyeball test.
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/1 |
Why are Simmons' DRPM and DBPM so high? I've watched a few games from him and for the life of me I don't understand what makes him so great a defender in these metrics. He's solid but not outstanding by my eye test. |
He gets a lot of steals, blocks, and rebounds/assists. All three of those are important to DBPM. As for DRPM... well Zach Lowe said early on that Simmons' defense was really good for a rookie, so maybe he's actually just good? I don't have my own opinion there as I haven't watched much of him. |
Simmons gives a lot of effort on defense and he attempts steals and blocks. He has a lot of confidence all around, except for the shooting. |
DRPM: Player's estimated on-court impact on team defensive performance, measured in points allowed per 100 defensive possessions.
The lineups Ben Simmons is on gives u less points per 100 defensive possessions then Lonzo's lineups. |
I think it's important to note that DRPM attempts to mathematically control for the effect of teammates and filter out their contribution when calculating a individual player's numbers.
That said, teammates are always going to have an impact, pro and con, on every player's individual performance. There are certainly flaws with DRPM but it's regarded as the best, simple, accessible stat to rank player's defense.
In addition, Simmons come out pretty well in stuff like 82games opponent stats against. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144474
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| PHILosophize wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | ChickenBeckerman wrote: | | activeverb wrote: |
I'd say Lonzo's rookie comp group so far is Rubio, Kidd, Fat Lever, and Elfrid Payton. |
Thumbs up!
I was saying Fat Lever for a long while. A taller more athletic Fat Lever. |
Fat was a good player before he got injured. I remember I had him on a fantasy team when he was putting up 20-9-8 and 3 steals. He really filled up the scorecard for a few seasons.
Of course that was a big stat era -- I set the Warriors would have only been 5th or 6th in league in scoring some of those years. |
They had fantasy basketball back then? |
I created a fantasy football league in 1980 when I was in college.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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epak
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | epak wrote: | | AFireInside619 wrote: | | tox wrote: | | levon wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | LakerLanny wrote: | Who is a better defender right now at the PG position in the NBA?
I await your answers.
Lonzo Ball aka The Savior is for real and will be converting the disbelievers. |
Here are the stats. This matches up pretty well with my eyeball test.
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/1 |
Why are Simmons' DRPM and DBPM so high? I've watched a few games from him and for the life of me I don't understand what makes him so great a defender in these metrics. He's solid but not outstanding by my eye test. |
He gets a lot of steals, blocks, and rebounds/assists. All three of those are important to DBPM. As for DRPM... well Zach Lowe said early on that Simmons' defense was really good for a rookie, so maybe he's actually just good? I don't have my own opinion there as I haven't watched much of him. |
Simmons gives a lot of effort on defense and he attempts steals and blocks. He has a lot of confidence all around, except for the shooting. |
DRPM: Player's estimated on-court impact on team defensive performance, measured in points allowed per 100 defensive possessions.
The lineups Ben Simmons is on gives u less points per 100 defensive possessions then Lonzo's lineups. |
I think it's important to note that DRPM attempts to mathematically control for the effect of teammates and filter out their contribution when calculating a individual player's numbers.
That said, teammates are always going to have an impact, pro and con, on every player's individual performance. There are certainly flaws with DRPM but it's regarded as the best, simple, accessible stat to rank player's defense.
In addition, Simmons come out pretty well in stuff like 82games opponent stats against. |
Seems like it:
[The] metric isolates the unique plus-minus impact of each NBA player by adjusting for the effects of each teammate, opposing player and coach. ... The RPM model sifts through more than 230,000 possessions each NBA season to tease apart the "real" plus-minus effects attributable to each player, employing techniques similar to those used by scientific researchers when they need to model the effects of numerous variables at the same time.
Who loves math? |
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vicman
Star Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 2379
Location: Arcadia
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| I was at the Q last night. Being a season ticket holder i only see the pressure zo faces at home. On the road it is crazy the animosity the kid faces on the road is insane. Personally I think the shot will fall eventually it did last night. But he is really good at just about everything else. But it was for sure crazy seeing how much people hate him |
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Christopher Walken
Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 Jul 2016
Posts: 811
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| vicman wrote: | | I was at the Q last night. Being a season ticket holder i only see the pressure zo faces at home. On the road it is crazy the animosity the kid faces on the road is insane. Personally I think the shot will fall eventually it did last night. But he is really good at just about everything else. But it was for sure crazy seeing how much people hate him |
Season tickets and the ability to go see games on the road?
You sir, are the big baller! |
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vicman
Star Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 2379
Location: Arcadia
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Christopher Walken wrote: | | vicman wrote: | | I was at the Q last night. Being a season ticket holder i only see the pressure zo faces at home. On the road it is crazy the animosity the kid faces on the road is insane. Personally I think the shot will fall eventually it did last night. But he is really good at just about everything else. But it was for sure crazy seeing how much people hate him |
Season tickets and the ability to go see games on the road?
You sir, are the big baller! |
My sister lives in Cleveland so I came out to take my nieces and nephew to a game |
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PRLakeShow
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Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 10460
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Seeing a lot of 40+ FG% games recently in his game log. Things are getting better. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:27 am Post subject: |
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Can Lonzo help usher in Showtime II?
If the team can sustain it, the Lakers are playing at a recent record pace (104.6 pos/g) and they're getting out in transition more than the Warriors or D'Antoni Rockets have over the past three seasons (over 20% of possessions). And that doesn't include semi-transition plays where quick hit aheads can keep defenses from getting fully organized early in the shot clock. That's the Lonzo effect.
The young roster is in flux lacking particularly in shooting talent, but also lacking great transition finishers (the team is worse than last season and near the bottom of the NBA this season at 0.99 PPP in transition). But that potentially bodes well for the future as Lonzo gains experience and becomes more efficient, and the talent on the roster is adjusted to maximize a high tempo fastbreak offense around his passing.
So can Magic and Pelinka build Showtime II around Lonzo? Should that even be the goal? The Lakers can certainly become more efficient in transition, but can/should they increase their pace and frequency of transition offense even more in future seasons or will there be diminishing returns (such as sacrificing defense)?
Also, what players on the roster now and out there in free agency (stars or role-players) would best help achieve Showtime II? For instance, is Ingram the best fit for Showtime II? Should the Lakers sacrifice a longer championship window for the opportunity to pair Lonzo and Lebron in transition for 3-4 seasons? |
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LakerLogic
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Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 17886
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| If we can get 2-3 more shooters around Lonzo, we will have the best offense in the league. |
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PHILosophize
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Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Posts: 10758
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| LakerLogic wrote: | | If we can get 2-3 more shooters around Lonzo, we will have the best offense in the league. |
Tyreke Evans, PG and Marco Bellineli
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one dog goes that way the other dog goes the other way |
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FanOfFour
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 1761
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| LakerLogic wrote: | | If we can get 2-3 more shooters around Lonzo, we will have the best offense in the league. |
For real. Look at what Simmons has to work with in Philadelphia. He's surrounded by really good 3 point shooters as well as having an elite threat in the paint. That being said, considering the plan for next season and contract constraints, I'm not surprised that specialists couldn't be targeted and signed this past off-season. Hopefully Lonzo, Hart, Kuzma and Ingram will continue to develop from distance and whoever they sign in the Summer are threats from 3 as well. |
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LandsbergerRules
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Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 11197
Location: The Other Perspective
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:32 am Post subject: |
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| The Juggernaut wrote: |
4 guys ahead of Lonzo play less than 20 MPG. Lonzo is already a top 10 defender at the PG position. The J Kidd comps are looking more and more correct as the season goes on. |
Glad to see his defense is much better than advertised.
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"Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
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AFireInside619
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Joined: 11 Dec 2015
Posts: 11447
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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| FanOfFour wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | If we can get 2-3 more shooters around Lonzo, we will have the best offense in the league. |
For real. Look at what Simmons has to work with in Philadelphia. He's surrounded by really good 3 point shooters as well as having an elite threat in the paint. That being said, considering the plan for next season and contract constraints, I'm not surprised that specialists couldn't be targeted and signed this past off-season. Hopefully Lonzo, Hart, Kuzma and Ingram will continue to develop from distance and whoever they sign in the Summer are threats from 3 as well. |
It seems like with ball movers such as Lebron, Simmons, or Ball, maybe it's more important to have +40% 3 point role players, rather than ISO scoring threats. Those players are important too, but year after year we see Lebron turn other team's garbage players and make them deadly shooters if left open. Ultimately teams need 3&D wings, but those are so hard to come by. |
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governator
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25092
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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DECEMBER (6 games)
Mins 33.0
FGM-FGA 3.7-9.0 (FG% .407) = 9.3 PPG
3PM-3PA 1.3-4.5 (3FG% .296)
FTM-FTA 0.7-1.2 (FT% .571)
REB 6.5
AST 7.0
BLK 1.3
STL 1.5
TO 2.8 |
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dcarter4kobe
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Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 17680
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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Ingram was able to finish strong last season finishing with a 40FG%. Hopefully Ball can get to around 38-39% by the end of the year.
_________________
"He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46684
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| You guys think Ball will ever have a 30+ assist game? |
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