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chantruong Star Player
Joined: 15 Jun 2009 Posts: 8894 Location: SGV
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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TheGoat1 wrote: | He does some really nice things at times and the idea of him at the top of his game is very tantalizing, but the kid is just soft at this point. Physically, there's no reason why he can't finish a semi-open layup or go up strong for once in his laker career. It's mental.
Worst case he is Ricky Rubio, which isn't a bad player, but no what we were hoping for at the #2 overall pick in a stacked draft.
For his sake and ours, hopefully he grows out of the softness. |
Ricky was always around 80% FT tho |
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LakerLogic Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Mar 2005 Posts: 17886
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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LakersPimp wrote: | MJST wrote: | What Ball needed his rookie season was a scoring option at the 2 so he couldn't be counted on to be a scorer more than he should be in his first year.
We have KCP instead whom thinks he's a scoring option but is more or less a role player that refuses to accept that.
Lonzo has to work on his finishing this off-season and his free throws. Work on those two things and I can be patient with the 3 point shot coming along. I think it will.
But right now he needs to work on his finishing and his free throw shooting.
Remember, it's a problem when your shot isn't falling, and you can't make free throws it. It means your strength of getting to the basket is nullified the moment you get fouled.
Same problem we all saw Mudiay having. Difference is Ball is a better defender and basketball savant with his IQ. But offensively he and Mudiay share a similar problem. Both can get to the basket, both can't hit free throws and both have a shaky jumper.
I expect Lonzo's jumper to come around. But he'd add 5+ points to his average if he became a 75% free throw shooter and worked on his finishing.
chantruong wrote: | LandsbergerRules wrote: | chantruong wrote: | ZO should just flail his way to the basket like BI last year. Hes got more than enough athleticism and length to get lucky and score or draw a foul. |
Well, BI has always been mentally tough and not afraid to try to take it to the hole. His big problem is his lack of physical strength, especially last year. Once his physical strength catches up to the toughness, he'll be great. Zo, on the other hand, wants no part of any contact or the free throw line. He'll need to get both physically stronger and mentally tougher. |
Yeah, I wish someone on the coaching staff or even Lavar encourage him to attack the rim. I feel like he is afraid of making bad plays. At this point we shouldn't been concerned with wins. BI didnt look promising until we fully committed to tanking if I recall correctly. |
LaVar DOES encourage him to attack more. Or rather he does, whenever they get the chance to talk nowadays. |
What Ball needs is to play smart basketball. While people praise his IQ...its strange that they ignore what HE needs to do to help his team be successful. Yes he passes...and i'm very pleased with his defense....yet his offense is extremely anemic. He...along with D'angelo was sold on us fans as something he is not. |
His skill-level is not on par with his IQ. He has no confidence in his mid-range game, finishing, or FTs. Too many offensive weaknesses when it comes to scoring. Teams are playing him to pass and it's not working anymore. |
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MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26085
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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Teams will play Lonzo to pass till he realizes he can finish against NBA defenses.
Just like they played Ingram to drive till he discovered he could hit a pull up from mid, and then he realized he could finish over NBA defenses without forcing it because he was afraid to shoot.
Once Lonzo figures out he can score on NBA defenses you'll see a change. But he has to put himself in position to figure that out. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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TheGoat1 Starting Rotation
Joined: 27 Jun 2015 Posts: 229
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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chantruong wrote: | TheGoat1 wrote: | He does some really nice things at times and the idea of him at the top of his game is very tantalizing, but the kid is just soft at this point. Physically, there's no reason why he can't finish a semi-open layup or go up strong for once in his laker career. It's mental.
Worst case he is Ricky Rubio, which isn't a bad player, but no what we were hoping for at the #2 overall pick in a stacked draft.
For his sake and ours, hopefully he grows out of the softness. |
Ricky was always around 80% FT tho |
Best worst case comp I could find, but there's No doubt he is a worse shooter than Rubio, Rondo, and Kidd. His terrible technique only compounds this and leads many to believe that it won't improve much unless he changes it.
Last edited by TheGoat1 on Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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I still believe in Lonzo. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26085
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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Ricky played professional basketball how many years before he got to the NBA in comparison to Lonzo?
Anyway, to me more or less Lonzo is looking tired as of late. Season and season length seems to have gotten to him. His being out also gave him some time to rest and get some legs, when he came back he came back like lightning out of a bottle but now the season seems to be finally catching up to his legs. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk
Last edited by MJST on Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Lakers#1Team Retired Number
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 36360 Location: Nomad
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, it's so easy to forget Zo's only a rookie trying to figure things out. A lot of good to great PG's had growing pains early on. |
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LandsbergerRules Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 11197 Location: The Other Perspective
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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TheGoat1 wrote: | He does some really nice things at times and the idea of him at the top of his game is very tantalizing, but the kid is just soft at this point. Physically, there's no reason why he can't finish a semi-open layup or go up strong for once in his laker career. It's mental.
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Agreed. Mentally, the kid is a wreck. Can't even make FTs even though it was never a huge problem before. He needs some professional help imo because the pressure will only get more intense from here, especially when we become a playoff team again. _________________ "Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
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Codyb1010 Sixth Man
Joined: 11 Mar 2018 Posts: 89
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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I am not one to hate on a player and not one to give up quickly on a player. The thing with lonzo is I just do not see fire, passion, skills, leadership. He does not have the intangibles or skill set to be a great player. He will be a great defensive pg and thats it. For those who like ball please inform me on why you think he will turn into a great player? I cant see it! Am i blind?! |
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al242 Star Player
Joined: 28 Sep 2012 Posts: 3120
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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I can’t be the only one thinking we should trade him, that shooting form is so bad, I don’t see how it can be fixed. Dude is shooting less than 50% from the line, that thing is broke |
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MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26085
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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No, it's not that he's "mentally coming apart at the seams" and the "pressure is just too much" and he's "just mentally fragile and easily broken!"
if that was the case we'd never have won the game we did because he never would have taken that three against Denver and sunk it with as much confidence as the other ones he missed.
Sometimes ya'll look too far into things.
Lonzo's mentality has always been a guy that scored in the flow of the offense when the ball got to him, and rarely if ever forced himself on the offense in order to score. That's something that's foreign to him.
You watch his career and his playstyle and you understand this.
Now had he looked like the 2nd coming of Kobe at UCLA and then got to the NBA and suddenly doesn't want to shoot that would be different. But Lonzo's playing the way he always has. It's not some "mental destruction" it's how he's always played.
If you think he's not playing like he's always played, than you set your expectations way too high about the kind of scorer he was coming out of UCLA. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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LandsbergerRules Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 11197 Location: The Other Perspective
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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al242 wrote: | I can’t be the only one thinking we should trade him, that shooting form is so bad, I don’t see how it can be fixed. Dude is shooting less than 50% from the line, that thing is broke |
Nah, giving up on a prospect this early is insanity. If he still looks like (bleep) on offense in Year 3, then that's a different story. _________________ "Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
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RestEasyBlackMamba Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015 Posts: 3061
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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I wouldn’t trade him no way, but I do see him being the scapegoat player if we sign PG and/ Lebron. Especially if we sign Lebron and his mass of fans follow. |
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deal Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2008 Posts: 14900 Location: Earth
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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MJST wrote: | No, it's not that he's "mentally coming apart at the seams" and the "pressure is just too much" and he's "just mentally fragile and easily broken!"
if that was the case we'd never have won the game we did because he never would have taken that three against Denver and sunk it with as much confidence as the other ones he missed.
Sometimes ya'll look too far into things.
Lonzo's mentality has always been a guy that scored in the flow of the offense when the ball got to him, and rarely if ever forced himself on the offense in order to score. That's something that's foreign to him.
You watch his career and his playstyle and you understand this.
Now had he looked like the 2nd coming of Kobe at UCLA and then got to the NBA and suddenly doesn't want to shoot that would be different. But Lonzo's playing the way he always has. It's not some "mental destruction" it's how he's always played.
If you think he's not playing like he's always played, than you set your expectations way too high about the kind of scorer he was coming out of UCLA. |
Yep, I'd agree he's playing like always.
However, for me, that's not much. Hopefully during the off
season his game grows, other wise, I can't see the hoopla behind
him at all...just an average player with lots of noise surrounding him. _________________ Lakers need to build a freaking team ! |
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Runway8 Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 22734 Location: La Jolla, San Diego
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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We can attach Deng to Lonzo and hopefully get back a 27th pick too. I kid, I kid.... but this future Jason Kidd is untouchable. I'm just getting over Russell, so please stop it all you chicken littles. |
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LandsbergerRules Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 11197 Location: The Other Perspective
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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deal wrote: |
Yep, I'd agree he's playing like always.
However, for me, that's not much. Hopefully during the off
season his game grows, other wise, I can't see the hoopla behind
him at all...just an average player with lots of noise surrounding him. |
As a prospect, he's definitely above average. But yeah, he doesn't have franchise-changing future-MVP level potential imo. A #2 or #3 guy for a contender is where I think his ceiling is. _________________ "Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
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MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26085
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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"franchise changing future MVP level potential" is usually not seen in rookie players. There's a few outliers but it's usually not seen.
Heck there's people that went on to do that with which it wasn't seen even 3 years into their careers.
So trying to make such a blanket statement about a rookie is waaaaay too soon. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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ramirezmu8 Starting Rotation
Joined: 11 Jul 2012 Posts: 758 Location: LA County
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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Love Zo but dudes been terrible the past week or so |
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CalisFinest Star Player
Joined: 03 Mar 2012 Posts: 2808 Location: Upland, California
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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Love pretty much everything about his game, I just want him to be more aggressive getting his own shot when the time comes. He passes up way too many open looks, everyone knows he's looking to pass so that compromises your offense at times. |
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MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26085
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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Right now Zo is figuring out what he can/can't get away with at this level. It's up to him to make the adjustments once he's given the answers, but he's still in that process. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90299 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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al242 wrote: | I can’t be the only one thinking we should trade him, that shooting form is so bad, I don’t see how it can be fixed. Dude is shooting less than 50% from the line, that thing is broke |
You’re not. We have a lot of knees that jerk around here. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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jg77 Starting Rotation
Joined: 19 Feb 2015 Posts: 429
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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942 pages for Zo while Ingram our 2nd year player has 1014. The hype machine behind Lonzo is one of his biggest issues. I was on Reddit during the game and I swear most of the fans on there were just watching to count Lonzo's stats. Honestly, I feel bad for him and not sure why Lavar yapping made him get so big in the first place.
I think his game will look smooth next year. He'll adjust just like Ingram did. |
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2019 Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Dec 2014 Posts: 10786
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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Day 1:: "omg he's such a bust"
Day 2:: "this dude is the real thing"
Day 3:: "he should come of the bench"
Day 4:: "FUTURE MVP!"
Day 5:: "shot's broken, we should trade him"
Day 6:: "LeBron would love to play with this kid" |
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deal Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2008 Posts: 14900 Location: Earth
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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ramirezmu8 wrote: | Love Zo but dudes been terrible the past week or so |
Not to worry, he'll have one good game and everyone will
adore him again.
The kids is a kid and a very unfinished product. _________________ Lakers need to build a freaking team !
Last edited by deal on Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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tox Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015 Posts: 17835
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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ramirezmu8 wrote: | Love Zo but dudes been terrible the past week or so |
Yeah. Whatever, he's shown enough this year. I can only imagine how thrilled this board would be if his offensive and defensive production were swapped.
Anyway, let's give him at least one offseason before we trade him, yeah? He has a lot of skills work to be done, but our player development crew seems to be pretty solid. |
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