| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
SDLakersFan
Star Player
Joined: 01 Apr 2012
Posts: 2044
|
 Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Goldenwest wrote: | | Injuries can throw a whole team off. Specially a young team. I attribute some of Lonzo’s Struggles to not having Ingram and Hart on the court and also not having a reliable bench to back him up. |
Terrible argument. Wouldn’t having less talented players around him less to a scoring surge? Zo is back to playing hot potato with the ball. As soon as it touches his hands he’s looking to push it up court then hide. Essentially he’s ending the season the same way he started. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17880
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| SDLakersFan wrote: | | Goldenwest wrote: | | Injuries can throw a whole team off. Specially a young team. I attribute some of Lonzo’s Struggles to not having Ingram and Hart on the court and also not having a reliable bench to back him up. |
Terrible argument. Wouldn’t having less talented players around him less to a scoring surge? Zo is back to playing hot potato with the ball. As soon as it touches his hands he’s looking to push it up court then hide. Essentially he’s ending the season the same way he started. |
Not really, he's not a scorer with the ball in the hands (yet) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Vanquish
Star Player
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 1561
Location: London
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| SDLakersFan wrote: | | Goldenwest wrote: | | Injuries can throw a whole team off. Specially a young team. I attribute some of Lonzo’s Struggles to not having Ingram and Hart on the court and also not having a reliable bench to back him up. |
Terrible argument. Wouldn’t having less talented players around him less to a scoring surge? Zo is back to playing hot potato with the ball. As soon as it touches his hands he’s looking to push it up court then hide. Essentially he’s ending the season the same way he started. |
From what I see on Lonzo, he performs better when the offensive pressure is off him. Also given Lonzo's weird shot, his release is slow, so I think he scores more when he's open. Getting Ingram back is really important for Lonzo, since Ingram would draw attention away from Lonzo.
Lonzo isn't a scorer, that's not what he's comfortable with. I see his scoring as a side effect of the team in general playing well, rather than him being like Kobe who generates offense which in turn spurs the offense of his teammates by encouraging opposition defenders to converge on him, leaving said teammates open.
Personally, I don't think Lonzo is ever going to be scorer. His chief role to me - is to make other people, especially our actual scorers better by getting them easy looks through ball movement on offense. If a scoring PG is absolutely essential to us, we are better off trading Lonzo. If his other talents are more important, then we should keep him.
Last edited by Vanquish on Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:47 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
scooterp10
Starting Rotation
Joined: 04 Oct 2016
Posts: 961
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| PRLakeShow wrote: | | I'm really dumbfounded that no one answered my question so I'll just ask it again, are we better off starting Ennis? |
😂 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wino
Star Player
Joined: 07 Jun 2002
Posts: 9674
Location: San Diego
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | CRoost wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Going through 2 years of DLO prepared me for the inevitable backlash by some re: Lonzo.  |
DLo was unathletic and slow AF. He’s very skilled but the ceiling is just low. Not to mention is lack of work ethic and his gimpy knee. So no matter what kinda historical stat people are clamoring here to prove their point . Meh, just another good player. |
Nah you’re missing the point. It’s difficult for 19-20 year old PGs to flourish as rookies. |
All this stuff makes me feel better and I do think he is going to pan out, but he does need to improve his shot and he does need to be a real option and threat to shoot when the game is on the line.
One of the problems I have is that I actually witnessed Jerry West, Magic Johnson and Kobe Bryant play as rookies and they ALL had a better start than this.
Kobe started a bit slow but showed a ton of upside along with brilliant athletic moves. Jerry was fairly polished as a rookie but developed a ton over the first summer. Magic gets my vote as the best rookie who ever lived. He was the most polished rookie of all time.
So far, IMHO, Lonzo has had a promising but underwhelming first year. I had much higher expectations. When he has played well, he has met them, but he has been too inconsistent.
_________________
Never argue with stupid people! They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!! - Twain |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Judah
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2015
Posts: 4759
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| PRLakeShow wrote: | | I'm really dumbfounded that no one answered my question so I'll just ask it again, are we better off starting Ennis? |
Step 1: Write down everything Lonzo does well.
Step 2: Write down everything Ennis does well.
Step 3: Stare at what you wrote until this incredibly obvious answer sinks in.
Step 4: Quote your post and answer your question.
_________________
“Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
- John Piper |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17880
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Judah wrote: | | PRLakeShow wrote: | | I'm really dumbfounded that no one answered my question so I'll just ask it again, are we better off starting Ennis? |
Step 1: Write down everything Lonzo does well.
Step 2: Write down everything Ennis does well.
Step 3: Stare at what you wrote until this incredibly obvious answer sinks in.
Step 4: Quote your post and answer your question. |
I gather his question is rhetorical |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lakersfever714
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2016
Posts: 11846
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
It's really an insult to compare Lonzo with Ennis or is it?  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kobe_somebody_odom
Star Player
Joined: 02 Feb 2006
Posts: 1661
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
People do realize that as a rookie Lonzo Ball is a top 3 defensive PG, a top 20 PG as far as win shares, and is averaging 10/7/7. Magic and West had better rookie seasons offensively for sure, but overall its probably closer than you think.
If the kid gets a 3 ball he could be the best player in the league considering both sides of the ball. If the 3 ball stays around 33%, we have J. Kidd who can block shots. Either way the Lakers win. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
av3773
Star Player
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3752
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
Honestly the people hating on Lonzo seem to think a players quality is only determined by his scoring prowess ...... all the games I have seen where Lonzo has shot poorly he has pretty much always contributed in other ways often significantly ...deflections, assists, boards, blocks.....
I mean if you think Lozno sucks unless he avg 20 a game well then prepare to be disappointed that's not his game and frankly the lakers don't need that to be his game...his true value comes from his all around play |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gimme_the_rock
Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 11882
Location: Looking outta the window, watching the asphalt grow ...
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
| tox wrote: | | Judah wrote: | | PRLakeShow wrote: | | I'm really dumbfounded that no one answered my question so I'll just ask it again, are we better off starting Ennis? |
Step 1: Write down everything Lonzo does well.
Step 2: Write down everything Ennis does well.
Step 3: Stare at what you wrote until this incredibly obvious answer sinks in.
Step 4: Quote your post and answer your question. |
I gather his question is rhetorical |
Yes. It was the first time PR asked and even more so the second.
_________________
We back. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sentient Meat
Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
Just because Ennis's shooting form looks more effective, doesn't mean it actually is. He's shooting half a percent better... 45% TS to 44.4% TS, meanwhile being significantly worse at rebounding, defense, steals, assists, blocks than Lonzo. He's shooting 24% from 3!
Can you imagine Lonzo playing 4 years and shooting this poorly?
This is the reality of Ennis, and people who wanted him to be our backup ought to have to wear a scarlet DA as their avatar for being dumbasses.
Yesterday, someone threw out an obscure stat to try and say IT and Ennis were the same. IT has a 58% career TS and scored more than 20 points in 71 out 76 games last year. Ennis scored 20 points twice in four years. IT averaged almost 50% more than Ennis's career high last year and someone claimed they were the same.
This is why we must sign a competent backup PG next season... no more journeymen that will mean the death of our playoff expectations should Lonzo get injured or become mired in a long shooting slump. Someone who's proven year after year to be able to shoot and create for others.
It doesn't have to be IT, even though I would like that... but it needs to be someone with similar or better credentials. No more extrapolating tiny sample size analytics and spinning it into fool's gold. Just pure shooting and assists for me.
I'd like to draft Shamet... maybe he will be the answer if his superb college shooting translates to the pros... but we must also sign someone who's proven themselves in the pros. I'd also like to keep Caruso around in case we draft a rim protector or our pick's a bust.
However, if you see others trying to convince you that any minimum salary backup PG will do next season, they should be forced to wear the DA avatar for repeating the equivalent of the Ennis experiment twice in two years. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
Ennis won’t be our backup next year. We have a full year of Lonzo and the FO knows that backup PG is a priority.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
| GoldenThroat wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | BynumForThree wrote: | | Looks like my pre-draft criticisms of his game were all true and then some. Luckily his defense came out of nowhere otherwise imagine the disaster of a season he would be having impact-wise. |
Defense is half the game. You were dead wrong about that half. Even if you have convinced yourself you were right about his offensive game, you were way off. Almost as far off as your Fultz predictions. |
The chest beating is so weird. He's been as advertised in pretty much every area, with the exception of his defense, which has been way better than anticipated. He's been bad as a scorer. Was that...unexpected? Here are how the other Top 10 PGs in his draft class have shot.
De'Aaron Fox.......48.6 TS%
Dennis Smith, Jr...46.9 TS%
Lonzo Ball............44.4 TS%
Frank Ntilikina......43.5 TS%
Markelle Fultz.......37.2 TS% (4 games, completely forgot how to shoot a basketball)
So I guess they're all busts?
People do this with PGs every year and never learn. Lonzo's gonna leave his rookie year as one of the best passing, rebounding, and defending guards in the NBA. So dumb. |
Between the exaggeration of his shooting struggles and the ignoring of everything he does well, lots of people have made fools of themselves while judging Lonzo. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
| adkindo wrote: | people can reach their own conclusions on how successful Ball's season has been, or how good he can become later in his career.....but I am confident if LG was told that Lonzo would have a 10/7/7 season on 36% shooting & 31% from 3........95% of LG would have been disappointed.
Is it fair to claim that makes it a disappointing season? Probably not, but it's fair to claim expectations built on hype were unreasonable. |
His finishing has been disappointing. He started the year on a horrible shooting slump. Besides those two things he has reached, or exceeded all expectations. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
22
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 17063
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
Just wait till Zo gets a summer under his belt fellas.
High BBIQ + athleticism + hard work means he will develop
I think Zo has all 3
Last edited by 22 on Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LakerLanny
Retired Number
Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 47581
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | Karl Malone shot 48% from the FT line as a rookie.
He finished as a 74% shooter. |
Surprisingly, he doesn't have a consistent FT routine.
Any great FT shooter does. Typically a quick one, Magic Johnson style, bounce bounce shoot. Money.
Lonzo needs to get in the gym and do it the same way every time thousands of times. Then it will be there, it isn't like he doesn't have the hand eye coordination.
_________________
Love, Laker Lanny |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lonzobryant
Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 Sep 2017
Posts: 594
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I wish we could add Trae Young. Lonzo would shine next to another lead guard and our backcourt would be set for the next decade. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dr. Funkbot
Star Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2001
Posts: 8188
Location: Eagle Rock
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| al242 wrote: | | Daphanabe wrote: | | Past few pages have been typical of the ‘what have you done for me lately’ view of the world. Was done to Randle, DLO, Ingram, and now Ball. In all instances, sheer foolishness as these things take time and all you want to see at this point are flashes of what they will become. I for one am extremely stoked. |
Randle, Dlo nor Ingram were this inefficient on offense, this is historically bad. |
Please spare me the historically bad argument. I heard the exact same words about Ingram last season.
He is a rookie, he will get better.
_________________
R.I.P. Doc Buss |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
trablos
Star Player
Joined: 10 May 2017
Posts: 3020
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Honestly at this stage in a players career, I'm looking to see if someone has enough talent to be molded into something great, but MOST of all, I'm looking at a guys work ethic and his attitude. Much more talented players have turned out to be busts because of their lack of intangibles. Lonzo has IT (no, not his teammate lol) in my opinion. You can tell how bad he wants to help his team win and how cool he is under pressure. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lonzobryant
Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 Sep 2017
Posts: 594
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Dr. Funkbot wrote: | | al242 wrote: | | Daphanabe wrote: | | Past few pages have been typical of the ‘what have you done for me lately’ view of the world. Was done to Randle, DLO, Ingram, and now Ball. In all instances, sheer foolishness as these things take time and all you want to see at this point are flashes of what they will become. I for one am extremely stoked. |
Randle, Dlo nor Ingram were this inefficient on offense, this is historically bad. |
Please spare me the historically bad argument. I heard the exact same words about Ingram last season.
He is a rookie, he will get better. |
And weren't Randle, D'lo and Ingram all considered scorers or at least it being a major part of their game? Lonzo's game isn't really about scoring. His shooting #'s don't really bother me as he'll probably never be a huge scorer anyway and all he needs to do is be more efficient which should happen over his career. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BizLA
Star Player
Joined: 22 Nov 2017
Posts: 2368
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
All of LaVar’s kids have terrible forms... How does one allow their kid to shoot the ball like that? How does one even learn to fling the ball from the opposite side like that? He got his son into the NBA so I can’t knock him on that...but jesus the guy can’t teach kids how to properly shoot a basketball.
Look at Dell Curry’s kids...both their forms are textbook. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
manlisten
Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2004
Posts: 3189
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
He needs some moves. He doesn't have any, at all, that step back doesn't count. He's just completely lost on how to attack a defense and create his own shot. Before the injury he started to show brief flashes that he was starting to get it but he's regressed since coming back. Although he has limitations, this is more mental and he should be able to improve to at least serviceable.
_________________
It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LakerSD
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 23788
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
| BizLA wrote: | All of LaVar’s kids have terrible forms... How does one allow their kid to shoot the ball like that? How does one even learn to fling the ball from the opposite side like that? He got his son into the NBA so I can’t knock him on that...but jesus the guy can’t teach kids how to properly shoot a basketball.
Look at Dell Curry’s kids...both their forms are textbook. |
Have you seen any LaVar videos
He throws the ball up from any angle while falling down and his arms and legs are all over the place when he shoots. LiAngelo and LaMelo’s forms look decent when you factor in who their dad is
LaVar only knows 3 things when it comes to basketball: 1. Play fast 2. Shoot from anywhere 3. Drink milk |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PRLakeShow
Franchise Player
Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 10460
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
| So is Ennis being talked about because of my post? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
