| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
adkindo
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South
|
 Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| DocK36 wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | deal wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | OMG... Magic averaged 52% shooting for his career and put up 42 points against a Sixers team with Dr. J, as a rookie, when Kareem was injured to lead the Lakers to the Championship at the age of 20. When he came back from HIV at the age of 36 after a four year layoff... he still shot at 47%
This is why Magic will always be greater in my mind than even MJ or Kobe.
Those two were better athletes... but Magic was the best basketball player.
I like Zo and still have high hopes but it's blasphemy to compare Magic to Zo right now. Magic actually developed the three at the end of his career... shooting 38% when his knees started giving out. If he didn't get hurt and get HIV, no one would have ever matched his assists records. |
Zo is not in Magic’s zip code. Will he get better, sure. But
Magic is the best PG I’ve ever seen and I’m as old as dirt.
For Zo’s benefit I would not try to compare him with
basketball royalty. In a few years? Who knows. But
not with that pretzel shot he has. |
Fair. But his pretzel shot is more effective than Magic’s shot. Magic was way better than Zo at his strengths and obviously finishing inside the 3 point line. With that said, zo is a considerably better shooter from distance. Don’t be so sensitive just cause Magic’s name was brought up.
Shooting form is one of the most overrated things in ball. There’s been players with strange shots who shot the ball historically well before. The important things are being consistent with whatever your mechanics are, being able to get the shot off over defenders and being balanced. Zo doesn’t need to change his “pretzel” shot he just needs to work on it. Factually speaking he’s actually been a solid shooter from 3 for the last 4 months. |
Actually what worries me more is his horrific FT shooting, the guy actually shot FT better in high school and in college. A lot of time FT shooting can be mental and you see guys like Shaq, Dwight Howard, Rajon Rondo, work as they might, they never turn into decent FT shooters. |
I will not be surprised if he is shooting around 66%-70% range next season.....and at some point in his career gets up in the 80% range. I mean 70% is not great....but it impossible to explain him being in the 48% range, so until it remains that bad another season, I will assume its an unexplainable outlier. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Laker_Town
Retired Number
Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Posts: 25604
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Had magic not said a damn thing, people wouldn't be so upset.
It wasn't lavars words that set the demand, it was Magic's. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
adkindo
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Laker_Town wrote: | Had magic not said a damn thing, people wouldn't be so upset.
It wasn't lavars words that set the demand, it was Magic's. |
Larvar caused most of the "Lonzo Hate" from fans around the league....Magic created the nearly impossible expectations that many fans....well....expected. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Christopher Walken
Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 Jul 2016
Posts: 811
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| So I heard D'aaron Fox outplayed Lonzo in one game in march madness- he must be leaps and bounds above Lonzo this year right? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jjangx27
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 2456
Location: Seoul, Korea
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Christopher Walken wrote: | | So I heard D'aaron Fox outplayed Lonzo in one game in march madness- he must be leaps and bounds above Lonzo this year right? |
where have you been? that's been an established fact ever since that march madness game |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PICKnPOP
Star Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Posts: 5377
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Lonzo has been terrific imo. He plays winning basketball and eventually those shots will begin to fall. I actually don’t really like watching the team when he’s not playing. He does so many little things that I really don’t care too much about his scoring. We already have randle, Kuzma and Ingram to get buckets. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LakersPimp
Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 2176
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| PICKnPOP wrote: | | Lonzo has been terrific imo. He plays winning basketball and eventually those shots will begin to fall. I actually don’t really like watching the team when he’s not playing. He does so many little things that I really don’t care too much about his scoring. We already have randle, Kuzma and Ingram to get buckets. |
To Be Honest...the most i've enjoyed the Lakers this season was when Hart started with Ingram, Kuzma, Lopez and Randle...then IT coming off the bench...its like we played so...harmoniously....the shots we took were the shots we were supposed to take...so even if we lost...we didn't beat ourselves.
I like Lonzo...but i would almost rather have Hart start currently..(when healthy) Lonzo may grow into a better player...but i hate that we have to play through so many of his growing pains when there are more effective alternatives...idk why he even started...he should have been humbled from Day 1. Thats the downfall of the NBA...the pandering to "talent" over proven skill. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
Lonzo has been coasting on his elite instincts and feel for the game. You can't teach that kind of court vision, rebounding, and defense.
Now, there are several areas of his game that have been exposed that will require meticulous and timely efforts in the gym to correct. Is he focused enough to improve many simple (but repetitive) skills? Or is he just going to rely on his instincts again and be prone to major swings of inconsistency?
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AY2043
Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Posts: 10621
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
| LakersPimp wrote: | | PICKnPOP wrote: | | Lonzo has been terrific imo. He plays winning basketball and eventually those shots will begin to fall. I actually don’t really like watching the team when he’s not playing. He does so many little things that I really don’t care too much about his scoring. We already have randle, Kuzma and Ingram to get buckets. |
To Be Honest...the most i've enjoyed the Lakers this season was when Hart started with Ingram, Kuzma, Lopez and Randle...then IT coming off the bench...its like we played so...harmoniously....the shots we took were the shots we were supposed to take...so even if we lost...we didn't beat ourselves.
I like Lonzo...but i would almost rather have Hart start currently..(when healthy) Lonzo may grow into a better player...but i hate that we have to play through so many of his growing pains when there are more effective alternatives...idk why he even started...he should have been humbled from Day 1. Thats the downfall of the NBA...the pandering to "talent" over proven skill. |
Except pretty much all the advanced metrics have Lonzo as a more impactful player than Hart (and that's not a knock on Hart, I love the dude). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ElginBaylor
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 10775
Location: Hoosier Nation
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | Lonzo has been coasting on his elite instincts and feel for the game. You can't teach that kind of court vision, rebounding, and defense.
Now, there are several areas of his game that have been exposed that will require meticulous and timely efforts in the gym to correct. Is he focused enough to improve many simple (but repetitive) skills? Or is he just going to rely on his instincts again and be prone to major swings of inconsistency? |
He's pretty much proven that he's willing to put in the work. I don't see him as someone who is going to build a career on "coasting".
_________________
Not a legend |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GoldenThroat
Moderator
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 37474
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gimme_the_rock
Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 11882
Location: Looking outta the window, watching the asphalt grow ...
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Huey Lewis & The News wrote: | | big |
baller
_________________
We back. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gimme_the_rock
Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 11882
Location: Looking outta the window, watching the asphalt grow ...
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | Lonzo has been coasting on his elite instincts and feel for the game. You can't teach that kind of court vision, rebounding, and defense.
Now, there are several areas of his game that have been exposed that will require meticulous and timely efforts in the gym to correct. Is he focused enough to improve many simple (but repetitive) skills? Or is he just going to rely on his instincts again and be prone to major swings of inconsistency? |
I don't know where the worry about his work ethic is coming from other than (maybe) his Dad's commitment/pressure to pimp the brand?
If the 2 max plans come into fruition, having already proven a much better percentage shooter from beyond the arc in catch & shoot situations, he should benefit by that alone. But there's no doubt his weaknesses have indeed been exposed in a far more potent way at this level.
_________________
We back. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Gimme_the_rock wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Lonzo has been coasting on his elite instincts and feel for the game. You can't teach that kind of court vision, rebounding, and defense.
Now, there are several areas of his game that have been exposed that will require meticulous and timely efforts in the gym to correct. Is he focused enough to improve many simple (but repetitive) skills? Or is he just going to rely on his instincts again and be prone to major swings of inconsistency? |
I don't know where the worry about his work ethic is coming from other than (maybe) his Dad's commitment/pressure to pimp the brand?
If the 2 max plans come into fruition, having already proven a much better percentage shooter from beyond the arc in catch & shoot situations, he should benefit by that alone. But there's no doubt his weaknesses have indeed been exposed in a far more potent way at this level. |
I'm not necessarily questioning his work ethic. Just saying he will need to put in a lot of time on the less glamorous and tedious fundamentals, which will require him locking himself in.
My point is look how far he's gotten on his amazing instincts so far. Look how much further he can go if he works on these simply fundamentals...
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Juggernaut
Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 4572
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Once this kid learns real fundamentals and technique including his shooting stroke and finishing around the rim he will be an elite player.As Yinoma said his innate basketball feel and IQ is something that can't really be learned. He's making an impact on games even without having good fundamental footwork or technique when it comes to scoring. He's also just learning PnR basketball at the NBA level. The ceiling is very high for this kid. I just hope he's pliable and accepts coaching especially on his shooting stroke. Only his willingness to learn can hold him back (or Lavar). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ElginBaylor wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Lonzo has been coasting on his elite instincts and feel for the game. You can't teach that kind of court vision, rebounding, and defense.
Now, there are several areas of his game that have been exposed that will require meticulous and timely efforts in the gym to correct. Is he focused enough to improve many simple (but repetitive) skills? Or is he just going to rely on his instincts again and be prone to major swings of inconsistency? |
He's pretty much proven that he's willing to put in the work. I don't see him as someone who is going to build a career on "coasting". |
When has he proven that? I’m not saying he won’t, just that we haven’t seen it.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ElginBaylor wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Lonzo has been coasting on his elite instincts and feel for the game. You can't teach that kind of court vision, rebounding, and defense.
Now, there are several areas of his game that have been exposed that will require meticulous and timely efforts in the gym to correct. Is he focused enough to improve many simple (but repetitive) skills? Or is he just going to rely on his instincts again and be prone to major swings of inconsistency? |
He's pretty much proven that he's willing to put in the work. I don't see him as someone who is going to build a career on "coasting". |
At this level he needs the right trainers to hone in on his amazing instincts and feel for the game. The fundamentals need a lot of work and running the hills with his bros isn't gonna get you there.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BynumForThree
Star Player
Joined: 27 Feb 2016
Posts: 1254
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| GoldenThroat wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | BynumForThree wrote: | | Looks like my pre-draft criticisms of his game were all true and then some. Luckily his defense came out of nowhere otherwise imagine the disaster of a season he would be having impact-wise. |
Defense is half the game. You were dead wrong about that half. Even if you have convinced yourself you were right about his offensive game, you were way off. Almost as far off as your Fultz predictions. |
The chest beating is so weird. He's been as advertised in pretty much every area, with the exception of his defense, which has been way better than anticipated. He's been bad as a scorer. Was that...unexpected? Here are how the other Top 10 PGs in his draft class have shot.
De'Aaron Fox.......48.6 TS%
Dennis Smith, Jr...46.9 TS%
Lonzo Ball............44.4 TS%
Frank Ntilikina......43.5 TS%
Markelle Fultz.......37.2 TS% (4 games, completely forgot how to shoot a basketball)
So I guess they're all busts?
People do this with PGs every year and never learn. Lonzo's gonna leave his rookie year as one of the best passing, rebounding, and defending guards in the NBA. So dumb. |
The chest-beating has to do with me calling out Lonzo for severe limitations to his game (the Lakers are a net-negative on offense with him on the court) despite everyone here claiming he's worthy of the #1 selection, a generational talent and better than Ben Simmons. Expectations went this year from Lonzo being the ROY to now "being one of the better rebounding guards this year."
I got ridiculed for my analysis on Ball. Of course, I'm going to make people eat some crow. I don't want him to be a bust but I want people to see reality for what it is and recognize that Ball needs A LOT of work in order to live up to his #2 selection in a stacked class. I hope he gets there but the flaws have always been there.
_________________
If Brandon Knight were to come out, I would take him number 1 in the draft. - Magic Johnson Mar 27, 2011
For all of you out there questioning Jimmer Fredette of BYU, he is the real deal. - Magic Johnson Mar 20, 2011 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | I'm going to make people eat some crow. I don't want him to be a bust |
So you're going to basically root for his failure so you can "make people eat some crow?"
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AY2043
Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Posts: 10621
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | I'm going to make people eat some crow. I don't want him to be a bust |
So you're going to basically root for his failure so you can "make people eat some crow?" |
Ah, the classic "People got mad when I said 19-year old player X on the Lakers is terrible and will be a bust, now I'm going to hope I'm right and that my favorite team is worse off just so I can gloat to some random people on the internet I've never met" argument.
Not again...  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
It's sad. Lonzo is a major piece of this team's future. We should all be rooting for his success. If he fails, the Lakers fail.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lonzobryant
Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 Sep 2017
Posts: 594
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | It's sad. Lonzo is a major piece of this team's future. We should all be rooting for his success. If he fails, the Lakers fail. |
This isn't even close to being true. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| lonzobryant wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | It's sad. Lonzo is a major piece of this team's future. We should all be rooting for his success. If he fails, the Lakers fail. |
This isn't even close to being true. |
If Lonzo turns out to be an absolute bust? that's going to hurt the team big time going forward.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LakersPimp
Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 2176
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| AY2043 wrote: | | LakersPimp wrote: | | PICKnPOP wrote: | | Lonzo has been terrific imo. He plays winning basketball and eventually those shots will begin to fall. I actually don’t really like watching the team when he’s not playing. He does so many little things that I really don’t care too much about his scoring. We already have randle, Kuzma and Ingram to get buckets. |
To Be Honest...the most i've enjoyed the Lakers this season was when Hart started with Ingram, Kuzma, Lopez and Randle...then IT coming off the bench...its like we played so...harmoniously....the shots we took were the shots we were supposed to take...so even if we lost...we didn't beat ourselves.
I like Lonzo...but i would almost rather have Hart start currently..(when healthy) Lonzo may grow into a better player...but i hate that we have to play through so many of his growing pains when there are more effective alternatives...idk why he even started...he should have been humbled from Day 1. Thats the downfall of the NBA...the pandering to "talent" over proven skill. |
Except pretty much all the advanced metrics have Lonzo as a more impactful player than Hart (and that's not a knock on Hart, I love the dude). |
We started playing our best ball without ball....So while he is impactful with the metrics...the W's were going up without him. Now that Ingram is gone....its been a different feel...Lonzo can't step up yet without those guys...but those guys can step up without Lonzo...he is still young....so that may change... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AY2043
Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Posts: 10621
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
| LakersPimp wrote: | | AY2043 wrote: | | LakersPimp wrote: | | PICKnPOP wrote: | | Lonzo has been terrific imo. He plays winning basketball and eventually those shots will begin to fall. I actually don’t really like watching the team when he’s not playing. He does so many little things that I really don’t care too much about his scoring. We already have randle, Kuzma and Ingram to get buckets. |
To Be Honest...the most i've enjoyed the Lakers this season was when Hart started with Ingram, Kuzma, Lopez and Randle...then IT coming off the bench...its like we played so...harmoniously....the shots we took were the shots we were supposed to take...so even if we lost...we didn't beat ourselves.
I like Lonzo...but i would almost rather have Hart start currently..(when healthy) Lonzo may grow into a better player...but i hate that we have to play through so many of his growing pains when there are more effective alternatives...idk why he even started...he should have been humbled from Day 1. Thats the downfall of the NBA...the pandering to "talent" over proven skill. |
Except pretty much all the advanced metrics have Lonzo as a more impactful player than Hart (and that's not a knock on Hart, I love the dude). |
We started playing our best ball without ball....So while he is impactful with the metrics...the W's were going up without him. Now that Ingram is gone....its been a different feel...Lonzo can't step up yet without those guys...but those guys can step up without Lonzo...he is still young....so that may change... |
We also went on a 10 game losing streak immediately after he first got hurt, and the team looked like a complete mess.
We're 4-5 without BI, not exactly terrible, and about on pace with our overall record. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
