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splashmtn
Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961
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 Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| lonzobryant wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | I'm going to make people eat some crow. I don't want him to be a bust |
So you're going to basically root for his failure so you can "make people eat some crow?" |
I think that Lonzo has already made the “generational” and “ROY” crowd eat crow. He is a very talented guard who I think has tremendous upside. He doesn’t have to be the best ever, just continue to be a good fit on this team. |
Yeah, the problem is that the casual fan isn't OK with Lonzo being an outstanding role player. I think the hype Lavar sold everyone just fooled everybody on what type of player he was. I think Lonzo will be good. I'm not too worried about him.
I hope he doesn't choose to overhaul his shot and just maybe try to tweak it. If he does the former then I'll be concerned. |
at first coming out of college hitting that shot i said dont touch it. just let him work on it. but since he's all over the place with it and the fts are silly bad. he aint got nothing to lose. he could change his funny form to ray allens and make as many fts as he's making now. all jokes aside. Zo could hit that many freethrows with his off hand. think about that for a moment. with his...off..hand. So does he really have anything to lose? Not really. If he tweaks it now. and sticks with said tweaks for the 2 years. He can become a money shooter. he has good aim and nice rotation on the ball.
But I'm telling you now. You wont see it come to fruition for 2 seasons. The late part of the 2nd season if he works like hell on it and sticks with it. You will start to see a real life shooter. I've watched a many of brick layer or sporadic shooters work on their shots and it took like 2 seasons before the new shot became a real thing. that first year after the summer tweaks had everyone fooled early in the season because it hit during pre-season. and hit a little early on. then the defense started jumping them. and it became brick time again. It takes 2 years for the player to believe in his newly tweaked shot to the point its no longer new. It becomes a part of his game like every other part. |
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LakerSD
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 23778
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | The only place you could argue Lonzo's ceiling is at a role players level would be scoring/shooting.
Everywhere else he is way ahead of the curve on.
The most interesting thing is if Lonzo made pretty much one more three a game than he does his rookie numbers would be pretty staggering. But people focus only on the scoring |
This is where I’m at too...I will say the past couple of games against the Heat and Pacers he didn’t look good but it wasn’t so much the shot...just his turnovers, decision making and tentative play on offense. Imo that’s to be expected with the growing pains for a 20 year old rookie, so I’m not too concerned. However, he clearly needs to adjust to the defenses adjusting to him. |
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BizLA
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Joined: 22 Nov 2017
Posts: 2368
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | The only place you could argue Lonzo's ceiling is at a role players level would be scoring/shooting.
Everywhere else he is way ahead of the curve on.
The most interesting thing is if Lonzo made pretty much one more three a game than he does his rookie numbers would be pretty staggering. But people focus only on the scoring |
He doesn’t attack the defense either, in the halfcourt offense. Isn’t a playmaker in the halfcourt set.. He’s looking to shoot off the catch or pass it, that’s it. |
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splashmtn
Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Car54 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | I thought Ingram was going to be a generational player during his rookie year... still think that he will get there. Some players are brilliant immediately... but many need three years to reach full potential. |
I think that generational players are that out of the gate. But like the term “superstar”, 10 different people probably have 10 different definitions. |
Then you dont consider Steph Curry or Yannis generational talent? |
No, but that is where the definitions come into play. Generational is short for one in a generation. If someone wants to expand that to include more than one player, then they would get no argument from me. |
By that logic one of Kobe or LeBron wasn’t generational. Curry changed how the game was played as much as almost anybody in the history of the game. If that’s not generational then what is? |
It wasnt just curry. thats the thing. IT was analytics + curry doing it. If you take away the analytics. Curry would never have the green light to chuck from 100 feet like he does often. The same way the rockets wouldnt have the green light to launch like they do. thats not all chef curry. |
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Daphanabe
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Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 2768
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | BynumForThree wrote: | The chest-beating has to do with me calling out Lonzo for severe limitations to his game (the Lakers are a net-negative on offense with him on the court) despite everyone here claiming he's worthy of the #1 selection, a generational talent and better than Ben Simmons. Expectations went this year from Lonzo being the ROY to now "being one of the better rebounding guards this year."
I got ridiculed for my analysis on Ball. Of course, I'm going to make people eat some crow. I don't want him to be a bust but I want people to see reality for what it is and recognize that Ball needs A LOT of work in order to live up to his #2 selection in a stacked class. I hope he gets there but the flaws have always been there. |
He has severe limitations as a scorer - which was known all along - which isn't mutually exclusive with him being a very good young player.
You analysis of him should continue to be ridiculed so long as it continues to rely on specious arguments like "they're a net-negative on offense w/him" (when they're +2.4 per 100 possessions overall w/him on the court, which is amazing for a rookie PG) and misrepresentations of other people's arguments, such as "he's one of the better rebounding guards this year" (when the argument is that he's been one of the best rebounding, passing, and defensive guards in the league, who is also loved by analytic measures).
You've set up parameters and expectations around him that overvalue scoring while undervaluing other elements of the game, and you're now patting yourself on the back for him fitting into that paradigm just as you thought he would, without wondering if you're actually capturing the player's impact in the first place. |
GT with an awesome mic drop  |
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splashmtn
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Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| BizLA wrote: | | MJST wrote: | The only place you could argue Lonzo's ceiling is at a role players level would be scoring/shooting.
Everywhere else he is way ahead of the curve on.
The most interesting thing is if Lonzo made pretty much one more three a game than he does his rookie numbers would be pretty staggering. But people focus only on the scoring |
He doesn’t attack the defense either, in the halfcourt offense. Isn’t a playmaker in the halfcourt set.. He’s looking to shoot off the catch or pass it, that’s it. |
and so did j.kidd. even though jkidd came in a stronger guy, with better handles(he was also shorter, its easier to have better handles when you're shorter.)
but we all know zo needs to work on a lot of things offensively when it comes to scoring. including free throws. |
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Eindhoven
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Joined: 14 Jul 2015
Posts: 1930
Location: Zürich
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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Lonzo's season is absolutely in line with prediction: in 2038, #2 will be hanging from the rafters.
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al242
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Joined: 28 Sep 2012
Posts: 3120
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Lonzo, you’re a really really bad NBA player right now. I hope you get better in the future, but as of today you’re not a starting level PG in this league |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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Lol. Same folks.
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chantruong
Star Player
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 8894
Location: SGV
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Still think we can win this. They will lose steam in the 2nd half. We might lose our minds tho. |
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chantruong
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Location: SGV
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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DELETED
Last edited by chantruong on Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Laker's Fan
Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2002
Posts: 12850
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | ...they're +2.4 per 100 possessions overall w/him on the court, which is amazing for a rookie PG.....he's been one of the best rebounding, passing, and defensive guards in the league, who is also loved by analytic measures. |
To me he's showing that he's a perfect compliment to a star player(s) early in his career. Obviously more consistent 3pt shooting is an area to improve. But he's a guy that has real impact on winning without being high usage. In different ways (and to a lesser degree) Hart has similar qualities. Defends multiple positions, great rebounding guard, has been pretty good as a spacer all while not being high usage.
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Austin Reaves keeps his game tight, like Kobe Bryant on game night. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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Bingo LF.
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GoldenThroat
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Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 37474
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker's Fan wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | ...they're +2.4 per 100 possessions overall w/him on the court, which is amazing for a rookie PG.....he's been one of the best rebounding, passing, and defensive guards in the league, who is also loved by analytic measures. |
To me he's showing that he's a perfect compliment to a star player(s) early in his career. Obviously more consistent 3pt shooting is an area to improve. But he's a guy that has real impact on winning without being high usage. In different ways (and to a lesser degree) Hart has similar qualities. Defends multiple positions, great rebounding guard, has been pretty good as a spacer all while not being high usage. |
Right, which means there aren't the diminishing returns there are as there would be when you ask a Glen Rice or a Carmelo Anthony to play alongside two other guys that are better scoring options than they are. He can be a star alongside two other stars not only without stepping on their toes, but he can enhance them as well. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | Laker's Fan wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | ...they're +2.4 per 100 possessions overall w/him on the court, which is amazing for a rookie PG.....he's been one of the best rebounding, passing, and defensive guards in the league, who is also loved by analytic measures. |
To me he's showing that he's a perfect compliment to a star player(s) early in his career. Obviously more consistent 3pt shooting is an area to improve. But he's a guy that has real impact on winning without being high usage. In different ways (and to a lesser degree) Hart has similar qualities. Defends multiple positions, great rebounding guard, has been pretty good as a spacer all while not being high usage. |
Right, which means there aren't the diminishing returns there are as there would be when you ask a Glen Rice or a Carmelo Anthony to play alongside two other guys that are better scoring options than they are. He can be a star alongside two other stars not only without stepping on their toes, but he can enhance them as well. |
Yup. Lonzo with WB/PG13 would be amazing for example. Or even Simmons/Embiid. Oh hey LBJ/PG13.
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LandsbergerRules
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Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 11197
Location: The Other Perspective
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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Yup, he's a very good complementary player next to some legit superstars. If only he can get more consistent with that three ball, he'd be a damn near perfect complementary player.
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"Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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Lonzo with 13 boards already. Dang.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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I still believe in him!
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PRLakeShow
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Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 10460
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Worst offensive player ever. |
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al242
Star Player
Joined: 28 Sep 2012
Posts: 3120
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Straight scrub |
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Andre2K
Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 12199
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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Too many wide open clanks tonight...sigh 
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My Dream Starting 5 next Season
Pg Lonzo
Sg Kawhi
Sf Ingram
Pf Lebron
C Dedmon
Bench: Caruso, Hart, Bullock, Kuzma, McGee etc  |
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CantStopJM
Star Player
Joined: 03 Oct 2017
Posts: 2992
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| He's about to get roasted by the entire world and I can't even blame them. Dude, you're wide OPEN. He's not even close either. How many misses are in and out? It's sad when you can tell a miss by it's trajectory as soon as it leaves your hands. |
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calistrtballr
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 6352
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| F u ball! Trade him |
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55
Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 12092
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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12 attempts from 3 and 3 attempts from 2.
Not a good formula.
Kid has confidence in himself for taking so many after missing so many, but still not a good formula in his advancement as a player. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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Big summer ahead.
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