Joined: 12 Jul 2014 Posts: 2154 Location: Inglewood, CA
Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:10 am Post subject:
I can't recall a guard being this terrible at scoring ever turn into an all-star. His overall shooting/ability-to-score is a real problem. It's going to cap his ceiling to Rondo or Rubio if he can't find a way to retool.
Here's the thing, if Rondo was 6'7 and even shot 35% from three he'd be scary.
Rondo's finishing and mid range game were all very high and it was mainly his three point shot that was off.
If Lonzo became a 6'7 Rondo(if we're talking prime Rondo) that could shoot 35% from three, he'll be something special imo. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:46 am Post subject:
I see some of the same posters that use to rip and "internet defame" me when I tried to mention what I thought was legitimate concerns about Ball's game now tearing into him like he stole their seat on Noah's Ark.
Geez, the guy is struggling, has some real weaknesses in his game, but let me know when you locate a rookie in the NBA that doesn't struggle or have weaknesses in their game.
Joined: 12 Jul 2014 Posts: 2154 Location: Inglewood, CA
Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:17 am Post subject:
I should mention that I still think he'll become a good player, but if he can't become at least an average finisher at the hole or the 3 point line then I doubt he becomes a multiple time all-star. I mean he's worse than Shaq at free throws. Let that sink in.
Shaq had a bunch of outside endeavors off the court... but he was a freaking beast when he was dropping albums and starring in low budget movies. And at this point, I would trust Shaq over Lonzo at the line any day of the week. Even 50 year old Shaq, right now. That's sad. I bet half of us on this board could shoot better than 50% from the line...
Come on, Zo. Hit the reset button and put in the work.
The thing with Shaq and even someone like BI, is that they have rare physical attributes. They don't necessarily need to be the most skilled or have the best shot to be really good because their physical gifts overcome some of those weaknesses.
Unfortunately for Lonzo, from a physical standpoint, he is just average. He is an average athlete, with average length.
He needs to overcome those physical shortcoming through great BBIQ and great skill (handles, shot making, shooting). If he wants to be great, he doesn't have the luxury spend time on outside endeavors off the court.
Isn't Lonzo the 3rd tallest pg in the league?
Ben Simmons 6'10
Shaun Livingston 6'7
Michael Carter Williams 6'6
Lonzo Ball 6'6
Height alone for your position isn't a rare physical attribute.
Oh ok.
I thought Magic being 6'9 was a pretty big advantage for him since he was an average athlete as well.
Magic's height alone wasn't his advantage. It was what he could do at his height that was rare. How many players at his height and weight could move the way he did on the perimeter? How many players his height and weight could handle the ball the way he did?
Ben Simmons is similar. How many 6'10" 260 players have the agility and handles to operate on the perimeter similar to Simmons? Same with BI - how many players with his standing reach and wingspan can actually operate on the perimeter and make jump shots - the answer is not many.
Ok, yeah, I'm kinda not following your logic but that's ok.
I think Lonzo being a 6'6 pg is a huge advantage over other pgs. He doesn't really use this advantage but he has it. If he had a post up game like Shaun Livingston, he could post up pretty much any pg in the league outside of Ben Simmons. He would be able to shoot over them. He has that advantage, he just doesn't use it.
Being 6'6 helps him see over all other pgs. It helps him get alot of rebounds. It helps him on defense when he has to switch onto other wings.
If Lonzo had a post up game, he would destroy Kyrie, Curry, etc. They wouldn't be able to handle him in the post. But he doesn't.
But that doesn't mean the advantage isn't there.
If Lonzo had the same atheltic abilities, the same vision, handles, skillset but he was 6'1, he might not have gotten drafted. Probably a 2nd rounder.
But, the same attributes put on a 6'6 frame made him a no. 2 pick.
Imagine if Trae Young was Lonzo's size, he might be the no. 1 pick (even ahead of Ayton).
He has the height, but he doesn't have the strength to post up anyone. Same as Ingram right now.
Lonzo doesn't look it because he's not as long and lanky, but he's really just as skinny/weak as Ingram was last year. It'll be interesting to see what an off season of strength training will do for him.
Forget the strength... what he doesn't have is the offensive repertoire to be able to do anything in the post. Even if he was the 6'6" Shaq at PG, he doesn't know what to do with it in the post. Those are simply skills he doesn't have and never worked on developing.
My concern with Lonzo is that besides his jumpshot, which has been obviously broken all season (yes, all season), he simply doesn't have anything else offensively to rely on. He has no floater, he doesn't finish well at the basket, he shies away from contact and most importantly and the biggest flaw is that he has no "shake" at the PG position. You can't count on him to break down a defender and break down a defense in the half court. Simply not skills he has.
Footwork is the name of the game in the post. Zo doesn't have it. Period. And those are skills I don't want him to develop quite frankly. I'd rather he develop "shake" (he's quick and athletic enough) and the ability to break down a defender.
People keep dwelling on the shooting form. He is missing wide open shots. The issue right now is bigger than the form. He needs to get his head on straight.
Or his knee. He was rolling until the injury.
he's 100% now, and was shooting great in his first few games back, when he was gimpy.
He's done it, he's broken me...maybe we should overhaul his shot
That pretzel shot of his is a piece of crap; always was, always will be. Can he change that crap during the off season?, let's hope so, or bench the skinny kid and get a real PG..
a real PG who will be a much worse defender, rebounder, passer than Lonzo will be in a few years. just let some of his scoring game mature and the skinny pale dude is a stud
How's that working right now? _________________ Lakers need to build a freaking team !
Think he needs more than an offseason to overhaul that shot unless they're just going to tweak it. We need to Fultz him.
Lol Lonzo will be fine and so his shot. He just need to get stronger and add wrinkles to his game because if he’s struggling, he need to fish some fouls and get into the line and get some rhythm. Oh yeah he need to work on his free throws too.
Shaq had a bunch of outside endeavors off the court... but he was a freaking beast when he was dropping albums and starring in low budget movies. And at this point, I would trust Shaq over Lonzo at the line any day of the week. Even 50 year old Shaq, right now. That's sad. I bet half of us on this board could shoot better than 50% from the line...
Come on, Zo. Hit the reset button and put in the work.
The thing with Shaq and even someone like BI, is that they have rare physical attributes. They don't necessarily need to be the most skilled or have the best shot to be really good because their physical gifts overcome some of those weaknesses.
Unfortunately for Lonzo, from a physical standpoint, he is just average. He is an average athlete, with average length.
He needs to overcome those physical shortcoming through great BBIQ and great skill (handles, shot making, shooting). If he wants to be great, he doesn't have the luxury spend time on outside endeavors off the court.
Isn't Lonzo the 3rd tallest pg in the league?
Ben Simmons 6'10
Shaun Livingston 6'7
Michael Carter Williams 6'6
Lonzo Ball 6'6
Height alone for your position isn't a rare physical attribute.
Oh ok.
I thought Magic being 6'9 was a pretty big advantage for him since he was an average athlete as well.
Magic's height alone wasn't his advantage. It was what he could do at his height that was rare. How many players at his height and weight could move the way he did on the perimeter? How many players his height and weight could handle the ball the way he did?
Ben Simmons is similar. How many 6'10" 260 players have the agility and handles to operate on the perimeter similar to Simmons? Same with BI - how many players with his standing reach and wingspan can actually operate on the perimeter and make jump shots - the answer is not many.
Ok, yeah, I'm kinda not following your logic but that's ok.
I think Lonzo being a 6'6 pg is a huge advantage over other pgs. He doesn't really use this advantage but he has it. If he had a post up game like Shaun Livingston, he could post up pretty much any pg in the league outside of Ben Simmons. He would be able to shoot over them. He has that advantage, he just doesn't use it.
Being 6'6 helps him see over all other pgs. It helps him get alot of rebounds. It helps him on defense when he has to switch onto other wings.
If Lonzo had a post up game, he would destroy Kyrie, Curry, etc. They wouldn't be able to handle him in the post. But he doesn't.
But that doesn't mean the advantage isn't there.
If Lonzo had the same atheltic abilities, the same vision, handles, skillset but he was 6'1, he might not have gotten drafted. Probably a 2nd rounder.
But, the same attributes put on a 6'6 frame made him a no. 2 pick.
Imagine if Trae Young was Lonzo's size, he might be the no. 1 pick (even ahead of Ayton).
He has the height, but he doesn't have the strength to post up anyone. Same as Ingram right now.
Lonzo doesn't look it because he's not as long and lanky, but he's really just as skinny/weak as Ingram was last year. It'll be interesting to see what an off season of strength training will do for him.
Forget the strength... what he doesn't have is the offensive repertoire to be able to do anything in the post. Even if he was the 6'6" Shaq at PG, he doesn't know what to do with it in the post. Those are simply skills he doesn't have and never worked on developing.
My concern with Lonzo is that besides his jumpshot, which has been obviously broken all season (yes, all season), he simply doesn't have anything else offensively to rely on. He has no floater, he doesn't finish well at the basket, he shies away from contact and most importantly and the biggest flaw is that he has no "shake" at the PG position. You can't count on him to break down a defender and break down a defense in the half court. Simply not skills he has.
Footwork is the name of the game in the post. Zo doesn't have it. Period. And those are skills I don't want him to develop quite frankly. I'd rather he develop "shake" (he's quick and athletic enough) and the ability to break down a defender.
Lol talk about concluding his game on his rookie year. This could all be true this year but people with work ethic will eventually add wrinkles to their game every year. How many player comes to the league with complete game at age 19. If what you say is true in his prime years then yeah no argument.
Every rookie gets the treatment. Expectations are high for #2 picks and even #7 pick. Randle got it, Dlo got it, BI got it and now it's Lonzo's turn. His rookie season has been uneventful. We have seen flashes of brilliance but mostly it has been average at best. There are so many flaws in his game he needs to work on. This year it didn't help matters that he was injured for 20+ games and you have to wonder if he is injury prone. He also missed summer league with an injury. _________________ Nobody in the NBA can touch the Laker brand, which, like the uniform color, is pure gold.
Think he needs more than an offseason to overhaul that shot unless they're just going to tweak it. We need to Fultz him.
Lol Lonzo will be fine and so his shot. He just need to get stronger and add wrinkles to his game because if he’s struggling, he need to fish some fouls and get into the line and get some rhythm. Oh yeah he need to work on his free throws too.
Lonzo's game is fine but his shot is not. A broken shot is pretty hard to fix especially if they're going to completely change it. I think they should just try to tweak it and then see how that works next season but if they going to overhaul it then I'd take the Fultz approach.
Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 2287 Location: Staples Center
Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:36 am Post subject:
Purp 32 wrote:
Would you all send him out for Kemba or Wall this summer?
no! BI sucked big time last season and look at him this year. These guys are babies...hes gonna be a stud. It does get frustrating, but it is what it is _________________ "THIS IS OUR TURN, THIS IS OUR CHANCE, THIS IS OUR SEASON...THIS IS OUR CHAMPIONSHIP!" - Kobe Bean Bryant
Shaq had a bunch of outside endeavors off the court... but he was a freaking beast when he was dropping albums and starring in low budget movies. And at this point, I would trust Shaq over Lonzo at the line any day of the week. Even 50 year old Shaq, right now. That's sad. I bet half of us on this board could shoot better than 50% from the line...
Come on, Zo. Hit the reset button and put in the work.
The thing with Shaq and even someone like BI, is that they have rare physical attributes. They don't necessarily need to be the most skilled or have the best shot to be really good because their physical gifts overcome some of those weaknesses.
Unfortunately for Lonzo, from a physical standpoint, he is just average. He is an average athlete, with average length.
He needs to overcome those physical shortcoming through great BBIQ and great skill (handles, shot making, shooting). If he wants to be great, he doesn't have the luxury spend time on outside endeavors off the court.
Isn't Lonzo the 3rd tallest pg in the league?
Ben Simmons 6'10
Shaun Livingston 6'7
Michael Carter Williams 6'6
Lonzo Ball 6'6
Height alone for your position isn't a rare physical attribute.
Oh ok.
I thought Magic being 6'9 was a pretty big advantage for him since he was an average athlete as well.
Magic's height alone wasn't his advantage. It was what he could do at his height that was rare. How many players at his height and weight could move the way he did on the perimeter? How many players his height and weight could handle the ball the way he did?
Ben Simmons is similar. How many 6'10" 260 players have the agility and handles to operate on the perimeter similar to Simmons? Same with BI - how many players with his standing reach and wingspan can actually operate on the perimeter and make jump shots - the answer is not many.
Ok, yeah, I'm kinda not following your logic but that's ok.
I think Lonzo being a 6'6 pg is a huge advantage over other pgs. He doesn't really use this advantage but he has it. If he had a post up game like Shaun Livingston, he could post up pretty much any pg in the league outside of Ben Simmons. He would be able to shoot over them. He has that advantage, he just doesn't use it.
Being 6'6 helps him see over all other pgs. It helps him get alot of rebounds. It helps him on defense when he has to switch onto other wings.
If Lonzo had a post up game, he would destroy Kyrie, Curry, etc. They wouldn't be able to handle him in the post. But he doesn't.
But that doesn't mean the advantage isn't there.
If Lonzo had the same atheltic abilities, the same vision, handles, skillset but he was 6'1, he might not have gotten drafted. Probably a 2nd rounder.
But, the same attributes put on a 6'6 frame made him a no. 2 pick.
Imagine if Trae Young was Lonzo's size, he might be the no. 1 pick (even ahead of Ayton).
He has the height, but he doesn't have the strength to post up anyone. Same as Ingram right now.
Lonzo doesn't look it because he's not as long and lanky, but he's really just as skinny/weak as Ingram was last year. It'll be interesting to see what an off season of strength training will do for him.
Forget the strength... what he doesn't have is the offensive repertoire to be able to do anything in the post. Even if he was the 6'6" Shaq at PG, he doesn't know what to do with it in the post. Those are simply skills he doesn't have and never worked on developing.
My concern with Lonzo is that besides his jumpshot, which has been obviously broken all season (yes, all season), he simply doesn't have anything else offensively to rely on. He has no floater, he doesn't finish well at the basket, he shies away from contact and most importantly and the biggest flaw is that he has no "shake" at the PG position. You can't count on him to break down a defender and break down a defense in the half court. Simply not skills he has.
Footwork is the name of the game in the post. Zo doesn't have it. Period. And those are skills I don't want him to develop quite frankly. I'd rather he develop "shake" (he's quick and athletic enough) and the ability to break down a defender.
Lol talk about concluding his game on his rookie year. This could all be true this year but people with work ethic will eventually add wrinkles to their game every year. How many player comes to the league with complete game at age 19. If what you say is true in his prime years then yeah no argument.
Every superstar does....
Every superstar has each one of their skills prior to them entering the league.
Kobe didn't you say? Kobe was already Kobe at the age of 17 - just look at his summer league games that year. He refined and strengthened all of those skills, but they were already there.
Giannis didn't you say? Giannis already had each and one of his skills prior to him joining the league. Look at the pre-nba highlights -
Steph Curry you say? Steph was already Steph in college.... look at his NCAA run highlights - each one of his skills was already a mega strength.
Most superstars come into the league with each and every one of their skills already. They refine them and strengthen them as they mature into their bodies...but the other-world skillset is already there. It's skills and strengths they relied on to have an advantage since they were kids.
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