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OFFICIAL LONZO BALL THREAD
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CalisFinest
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Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:36 pm Post subject:

epak wrote:

So sad that Fultz, Tatum and Don are getting playing ex

That should be a motivator for him. Seeing his peers in the playoffs while he's at home.

AFireInside619
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Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:03 pm Post subject:

Fortysixn2 wrote:

Endless3D wrote:

I hope I'm allowed to say this without creating controversy. I don't know about DLO's work ethic , his character issues and that doesn't even matter but it's crazy how hindsight works. DLO was my favorite Laker last year (even though I still would have taken BI over him) and I was not a fan of us trading the 2nd pick when it was looking like we already haven't drafted enough guys that could become top tier.

But looking back at it, DLO was a pretty bad fit for what Luke's offense is. This isn't to say DLO can't be a great player but even with his shooting ability (which took a step back) he would not fit in with our offense because his pace of play is slower and his style of play.

Sure you can argue that he could have been in the type of role Ingram was where he would be the secondary ball handler and slow the game down when it needs to be but I don't think we need two of those guys. Lonzo's pace and style of play makes our upside as a whole team so much higher then what it would have been as DLO with our PG.

If we had a 3rd year healthy DLO last year in place of Lonzo, I think we would have been perceived as a team with a lower ceiling. I'm so high on Lonzo despite the fact that his offense scoring wise is way below average, his effect on the team was evident.

Not to turn this into a DLO thread, but to be effective in this system you need to be able to play defense and play very quickly. Our team is built on the fact that we are going to be faster than you, be in better shape than you and we are going to defend, hit 3’s and run. DLO is in average to poor condition, plays extremely poor defense and his 3 point shooting went into the tank this year. Who knows if we would have progressed here, but he’s on his way to being a pretty significant disappointment with the #2 pick.

I guess most people who have at least liked to see DLO at the SG position in place of KCP, but KCP had a superior year in every single category vs DLO except for assists.

OP's comments sounded as if I had a burner account lol.

AFireInside619
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:01 pm Post subject:

Just finished watching the Cavs/Pacers series. I see people everywhere, on all media arguing about Lebron and thought about this. If people feel Lebron is a polarizing figure, wait until Zo actually becomes a really good player. Then we'll see polarizing. People will be flinging opinions left and right.

tox
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:14 pm Post subject:

SDLakersFan wrote:

Not gonna lie...its depressing watching Donnavan Mitchell ball out like that and knowing we drunk the kool-aid on Lonzo. I hated Russell but can't help but wonder how we'd look out there with

Zubac / Randle / Ingram / Mitchell / Russell
or
Zubac / Randle / Ingram / Hart / Mitchell

Mitchell is awesome, but that doesn't take away from Zo having a really good rookie year. Give him some time to work on his weaknesses (of which he has many), but I feel we should be excited about all of his strengths already as a rookie.

Mike@LG
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:30 pm Post subject:

tox wrote:

SDLakersFan wrote:

I don't think Mitchell sways the Laker culture, which was absolutely necessary, but I think I'm alone in that opinion.

Mitchell is fortunate to have a stud coach on a veteran team that executes at a high level and is unselfish.
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saetarubia
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:38 pm Post subject:

Let's compare Zo and Mitchell when ZO is 21-22. Dame also had a really good rookie year after multiple years at college, but has he improved much after 6 seasons? Tricky to compare one and done's with those who have stayed more years at college. Same goes for Kuzma's upside. _________________ Showtime 2.0

Endless3D
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:23 pm Post subject:

Call me delusional but I don't trade Lonzo for Mitchell straight up right now if I could. Neither will be superstar players IMO but both fit a different type of tier B star category. Mitchell can get buckets but he's not some crazy great shooter nor does he have an elite offensive skill. He's a 6'3 shooting guard with limited defensive potential. The mold I see him fitting is like a Kemba Walker or a Demar Derozan. I don't think Lonzo Ball ends up as a superstar either but he can become a tier B star like a Draymond Green. I'd take Green's impact over Walker or Derozan tbh

saetarubia
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:26 pm Post subject:

Endless3D wrote:

Call me delusional but I don't trade Lonzo for Mitchell straight up right now if I could. Neither will be superstar players IMO but both fit a different type of tier B star category.

Mitchell can get buckets but he's not some crazy great shooter nor does he have an elite offensive skill. He's a 6'3 shooting guard with limited defensive potential. The mold I see him fitting is like a Kemba Walker or a Demar Derozan.

I don't think Lonzo Ball ends up as a superstar either but he can become a tier B star like a Draymond Green. I'd take Green's impact over Walker or Derozan tbh

Pretty much. Even Deroz is 6"6/6"7. I think his impact will be similar to that of Dame though both have different strengths.
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tox
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:28 pm Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:

tox wrote:

SDLakersFan wrote:

Idk, I think that argument is pretty unfalsifiable so I don't find it that convincing. What exactly do you think would not have changed in the Lakers culture if they had Mitchell instead of Zo?

tox
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:31 pm Post subject:

saetarubia wrote:

Endless3D wrote:

Pretty much. Even Deroz is 6"6/6"7. I think his impact will be similar to that of Dame though both have different strengths.

I'm pretty sure his measurables are very similar to D-Wade, who was an excellent defensive guard in his prime, so I don't find the size argument convincing. 6'3/ 6'10 wing span vs. 6'3.75/6'10.75

KeepItRealOrElse
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:36 pm Post subject:

tox wrote:

saetarubia wrote:

Endless3D wrote:

Pretty much. Even Deroz is 6"6/6"7. I think his impact will be similar to that of Dame though both have different strengths.

I'm pretty sure his measurables are very similar to D-Wade, who was an excellent defensive guard in his prime, so I don't find the size argument convincing. 6'3/ 6'10 wing span vs. 6'3.75/6'10.75

Dwade has an 8'6 reach and Mitchell only 8'1..
Standing reach is basically how functionally tall you are on the court. Wade probably has higher shoulders, Wade looks/plays taller than he is, Mitchell doesn't (he looks like a PG out there, finishing included even though he's bouncy). They look different to me

adkindo
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:36 pm Post subject:

tox wrote:

Idk, I think that argument is pretty unfalsifiable so I don't find it that convincing. What exactly do you think would not have changed in the Lakers culture if they had Mitchell instead of Zo?

never been a more true statement spoken on LG....and I am not opining on which player is best, will be best, etc.....just lets stop with the unfalsifiable attributes. Its hard to imagine Mitchell is not great for any teams culture....but I have no clue if that is true....or more or less true than Ball. Mitchell has been great for winning....been great at scoring.....those are tangible.

Endless3D
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:37 pm Post subject:

tox wrote:

saetarubia wrote:

Endless3D wrote:

Pretty much. Even Deroz is 6"6/6"7. I think his impact will be similar to that of Dame though both have different strengths.

I'm pretty sure his measurables are very similar to D-Wade, who was an excellent defensive guard in his prime, so I don't find the size argument convincing. 6'3/ 6'10 wing span vs. 6'3.75/6'10.75

That's true that you can't just cap his defense because of his body type but Mitchell has shown nothing on the defensive end.

He has 1.5 steals per game but I think Gobert allows him to gamble more. Without a Gobert, I think his defense would be highlighted alot more.

adkindo
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:42 pm Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

tox wrote:

saetarubia wrote:

Endless3D wrote:

Pretty much. Even Deroz is 6"6/6"7. I think his impact will be similar to that of Dame though both have different strengths.

I'm pretty sure his measurables are very similar to D-Wade, who was an excellent defensive guard in his prime, so I don't find the size argument convincing. 6'3/ 6'10 wing span vs. 6'3.75/6'10.75

something seems off....Mitchell is less than an inch shorter....which results in less than an inch less in wingspan....but gives up 5" in standing reach

I mean that would only make sense if DWade's arms were coming out of his ears....

tox
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:46 pm Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

tox wrote:

saetarubia wrote:

Endless3D wrote:

Pretty much. Even Deroz is 6"6/6"7. I think his impact will be similar to that of Dame though both have different strengths.

I'm pretty sure his measurables are very similar to D-Wade, who was an excellent defensive guard in his prime, so I don't find the size argument convincing. 6'3/ 6'10 wing span vs. 6'3.75/6'10.75

TY for the correction. Didn't realize Mitchell's standing reach is so low. You're right, that matters more.

Mitchell's still a good defender though, no? From what I've seen anyway he's looked fine but I'm not gonna pretend to be an expert. Even if he doesn't get to D-Wade levels.

KeepItRealOrElse
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:53 pm Post subject:

adkindo wrote:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

tox wrote:

saetarubia wrote:

Endless3D wrote:

Pretty much. Even Deroz is 6"6/6"7. I think his impact will be similar to that of Dame though both have different strengths.

I'm pretty sure his measurables are very similar to D-Wade, who was an excellent defensive guard in his prime, so I don't find the size argument convincing. 6'3/ 6'10 wing span vs. 6'3.75/6'10.75

something seems off....Mitchell is less than an inch shorter....which results in less than an inch less in wingspan....but gives up 5" in standing reach

I mean that would only make sense if DWade's arms were coming out of his ears....

it's not uncommon, long wingspans with mediocre standing reaches. Wade just has super long arms and high shoulders, no neck. Mitchell has low shoulders, longer neck, bigger head. http://www.draftexpress.com/gallery/DonovanMitchell/1495209706.jpeg long neck Mitchell

It's easy to see though, Wade looks much taller than Mitchell, looks taller in the paint..

Mike@LG
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:53 pm Post subject:

tox wrote:

Mike@LG wrote:

tox wrote:

SDLakersFan wrote:

Idk, I think that argument is pretty unfalsifiable so I don't find it that convincing. What exactly do you think would not have changed in the Lakers culture if they had Mitchell instead of Zo?

I'm just thinking about the thought processes around draft time. Zo revamped that UCLA offense and the whole team followed suit. #2 Pace in the NCAA.

Lonzo goes to the Lakers, inconsistent shooting, but we see flashes all season, defensive ability, held #1 pace in the NBA almost the entire season until he sat out the rest of it. #1 in transition opportunities. #2 in transition scoring.

We look at Mitchell and he's a scoring guard (Fultz-archetype). 25th of 30 in Pace despite playing next to an uptempo PG in Rubio. 12% higher USG than Lonzo (which I think is an indicator of culture change. LAL maintained VERY high pace even in Lonzo's absence).

This is where the advanced idea of "best fit" makes sense. Best fit isn't specifically about position, but rather, do the team and the player enhance each other's abilities. e.g. Lonzo goes to a team that wants tempo change, wants to run, has no definitive options, wants to spread the floor, etc. Mitchell, goes to a far more disciplined veteran team that loses Hayward, so he steps in as a scorer and doesn't necessarily take over until the end of the season. Mitchell stays as a tertiary playmaker, just like he was at Louisville.
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Last edited by Mike@LG on Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

KeepItRealOrElse
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:56 pm Post subject:

tox wrote:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

tox wrote:

saetarubia wrote:

Endless3D wrote:

Pretty much. Even Deroz is 6"6/6"7. I think his impact will be similar to that of Dame though both have different strengths.

I'm pretty sure his measurables are very similar to D-Wade, who was an excellent defensive guard in his prime, so I don't find the size argument convincing. 6'3/ 6'10 wing span vs. 6'3.75/6'10.75

Haven't watched him defensively.. He's good at steals.. Wade has the stature to guard 2-3, Mitchell more 1-2

2019
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:00 pm Post subject:

Endless3D wrote:

You're delusional

Mitchell is such an elite young player it's scary. He gets buckets but getting to the rim at will where he's athletic and acrobatic. He's got great foot work, spin moves, handles, and speed which allow him to blow by his guy and as great as he is at getting tot he rim, he's also got mid-range game. He's actually got great range and he can get hot out of nowhere. You can tell he's a student of the game and he's only going to get better.

I'm happy with Lonzo and agree with your projection of a Draymond type player (I've been saying that since the draft) but given the choice, Mitchell is the easy choice.

Mike@LG
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:00 pm Post subject:

Mitchell is a good defender. That was the rep out of Louisville, hence everyone assuming he was a 3-and-D archetype, not the tertiary/primary scorer he is now.

Straight from Mike Schmitz

Quote:

Gaining steam through the workout and interview process, Donovan Mitchell has a chance to land in the lottery as a 3 and D style off guard who can serve as a secondary ball handler in a pinch, given his improved pick and roll scoring and off the dribble shooting. With a 211-pound frame and a 6'10 wingspan, Mitchell can defend either guard spot, and even check some threes versus smaller lineups. A high-character athlete with culture-changing personality and work ethic, Mitchell should be able to survive anywhere from a mentality standpoint, but the basketball fit will be important in order to maximize his potential. He's a ways away from being able to run an NBA team, as his feel for the game could still use some work, so putting him in a position to focus on defending, making open shots, getting downhill in space, moving off the ball, and being an athlete in transition will be key, similar to Norman Powell's development situation in Toronto. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Donovan-Mitchell-84680/ ©DraftExpress

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RashardA
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:55 pm Post subject:

Endless3D wrote:

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Halflife
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:07 pm Post subject:

Swap zo with dm we still wouldn’t have made playoffs

Fracture
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:15 pm Post subject:

Halflife wrote:

Swap zo with dm we still wouldn’t have made playoffs

Hell nah cus we don't have a Gobert

Endless3D
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:29 pm Post subject:

RashardA wrote:

Endless3D wrote:

I love when people laugh at other posters opinions like their some hot (bleep), people love to feel smart on internet forums

JerryMagicKobe
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:00 pm Post subject:

Endless3D wrote:

RashardA wrote:

Endless3D wrote:

I love when people laugh at other posters opinions like their some hot (bleep), people love to feel smart on Internet forums

You couldn’t just ignore it?
The emojis aren’t much of a reply, but your response was worse. No reason to make it personal.

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