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epak
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 Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| Fracture wrote: | | Lakers4Life33 wrote: | | saetarubia wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | Fine, I'm delusional too.
I wouldn't trade Lonzo Ball for Donovan Mitchell.
I didn't even think that was a hot take. |
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saetarubia
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| yuurin98 wrote: | I need to bring out that Magic & Rob tried to trade Dlo for a lottery pick. But no team wanted to trade a lottery pick for Dlo, so happened the Dlo-Lopez trade with the Nets and we got Kuzma (or Hart and Bryant, whatever)
My point is, have the Lakers managed to get a lottery pick out of Dlo, chances are that they're gonna draft Mitchell with it, so it's not that the Lakers FO didn't try. |
I read that when he was traded too. Wonder what was their plan to get rid of Moz then. Nance plus #28 maybe? Not sure that'd get it done for Moz with 3 years left.
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defense
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:03 am Post subject: |
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| Fracture wrote: | | Lakers4Life33 wrote: | | saetarubia wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | Fine, I'm delusional too.
I wouldn't trade Lonzo Ball for Donovan Mitchell.
I didn't even think that was a hot take. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| saetarubia wrote: | | yuurin98 wrote: | I need to bring out that Magic & Rob tried to trade Dlo for a lottery pick. But no team wanted to trade a lottery pick for Dlo, so happened the Dlo-Lopez trade with the Nets and we got Kuzma (or Hart and Bryant, whatever)
My point is, have the Lakers managed to get a lottery pick out of Dlo, chances are that they're gonna draft Mitchell with it, so it's not that the Lakers FO didn't try. |
I read that when he was traded too. Wonder what was their plan to get rid of Moz then. Nance plus #28 maybe? Not sure that'd get it done for Moz with 3 years left. |
I said from the beginning.....dumping Mozgov was only the cherry on top of that deal for Magic. He wanted to move DLO first and foremost. To be clear, I am not opining on if that was the right or wrong thing to do as that will only derail thread....only that removing DLo was Magic's primary motivation for that trade in my opinion. |
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BynumForThree
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | Here's how you defeat that argument. Ask this simple question...
"Would Harden have been more successful and lead his team to more wins if he was also a lockdown defender?"
The people that say "it wouldn't have made a difference" you know aren't worth the effort of continuing to try to convince  |
Would Jason Kidd have been more successful and lead his team to more wins if he wasn't an inefficient offensive player?
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BynumForThree
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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Ironic this is even a discussion in the thread dedicated to a player that was taken on the assumption that his offense was so extraordinary that his perceived defensive shortcomings weren't significant enough to offset his offensive potential.
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Dr. Funkbot
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| BynumForThree wrote: | | Ironic this is even a discussion in the thread dedicated to a player that was taken on the assumption that his offense was so extraordinary that his perceived defensive shortcomings weren't significant enough to offset his offensive potential. |
Agreed. His defense was a super pleasant surprise!
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | saetarubia wrote: | | yuurin98 wrote: | I need to bring out that Magic & Rob tried to trade Dlo for a lottery pick. But no team wanted to trade a lottery pick for Dlo, so happened the Dlo-Lopez trade with the Nets and we got Kuzma (or Hart and Bryant, whatever)
My point is, have the Lakers managed to get a lottery pick out of Dlo, chances are that they're gonna draft Mitchell with it, so it's not that the Lakers FO didn't try. |
I read that when he was traded too. Wonder what was their plan to get rid of Moz then. Nance plus #28 maybe? Not sure that'd get it done for Moz with 3 years left. |
I said from the beginning.....dumping Mozgov was only the cherry on top of that deal for Magic. He wanted to move DLO first and foremost. To be clear, I am not opining on if that was the right or wrong thing to do as that will only derail thread....only that removing DLo was Magic's primary motivation for that trade in my opinion. |
I actually disagree. I think their first goal was always the cap room, they just pretty much made up their mind early on what asset they were going to use to do so.
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splashmtn
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| BynumForThree wrote: | | Ironic this is even a discussion in the thread dedicated to a player that was taken on the assumption that his offense was so extraordinary that his perceived defensive shortcomings weren't significant enough to offset his offensive potential. |
his offense being passing. |
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splashmtn
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| LakersPimp wrote: | Amazing how @ 21 some of yall think DM has peaked...and that Lonzo has this infinite potential that needs to be unlocked.
I take DM all day everyday...because he is ready and wants it. Just like Kuzma. Its not saying that Lonzo won't be good one day....but I think banking too much on potential aka being super patient...damages the league.
Since we are in LA we use that against small market teams and poach the players they put in years developing. This dude comes straight out...Balling....The message he sends to the rest of the team is that IT IS POSSIBLE TO DO NOW.
Thats what I'd want on my team. |
no, you would take DM for the same reasons you would take kuzma over zo. its because they can score very well. thats thee only reason. You are enamored by scorers. And thats ok. It's how you see the game thru a scorers lense.
Me personally, I've seen a many of scorer guy never win a ring. Unless he is a very good or lockdown defender |
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splashmtn
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| giordan0 wrote: | Is LaVar qualified as an athletic trainer and secondly, if he was grooming these kids to be NBA players - whats with the bad diets in that household. It's not like they were low socio-economic background living in Chino (with Tina Ball also being an athletic director in her high school role) not having access to healthier food options.
Just not the best of foundations there. |
whats with the bad diets? They are kids. thats it. go ask most of these under 25 years of age guy that was not put on a regimen or "grass fed..." diet what they use to eat all the time.
Kobe use to eat crap food when he was young. |
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splashmtn
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Endless3D wrote: | | giordan0 wrote: | Is LaVar qualified as an athletic trainer and secondly, if he was grooming these kids to be NBA players - whats with the bad diets in that household. It's not like they were low socio-economic background living in Chino (with Tina Ball also being an athletic director in her high school role) not having access to healthier food options.
Just not the best of foundations there. |
He's a good athletic trainer and basketball coach up to the high school level, dude's a trainer for a bunch of kids in the Chino Hills area. Some of his philosophy actually makes sense, and he's good at instilling confidence.
But right when Zo hit NCAA, Lavar was in over his head. Now in the NBA? No chance he can be qualified enough. Lavar just doesn't have the right information/knowledge to be a good coach. |
but lavar wasnt in over his head when Zo hit ncaa. because lavar didnt bother ucla. people forget that. |
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Annihilator
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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Does anybody know if Lonzo has returned from his travels and started working out yet?
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RashardA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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Since Lonzo became a Laker its like the ability to score means absolutely nothing.
Players are downgraded because they can actually shoot, make layups and hit free throws.
SCORING is a HUGE part of the game of basketball.
ESPECIALLY in today's NBA from the guard position.
Every elite PG in this league can give you 30 on any given night.
Every single one of them.
Including Ben Simmons.
It's mind blowing that a fan base that took the ULTIMATE pride in having one of the most prolific scorers this game has ever seen in a Lakers uniform for 20 years, all of a sudden feel as though the ability to score is an afterthought or no big deal. 
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| RashardA wrote: | | It's mind blowing that a fan base that took the ULTIMATE pride in having one of the most prolific scorers this game has ever seen in a Lakers uniform for 20 years, all of a sudden feel as though the ability to score is an afterthought or no big deal. |
True, but only because some people are exaggerating. That's just message board psychology. I think most people know that scoring is important, but hope that Ball can bring a mix of skills that will offset his (at least for now) weakness as a shooter. Despite some of the things I've written here, I am open to the possibility that the Lakers could develop a successful paradigm that does not depend on volume scoring from the PG position. Teams like the Warriors changed the conventional wisdom, but that doesn't mean that the conventional wisdom is carved in stone. |
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | RashardA wrote: | | It's mind blowing that a fan base that took the ULTIMATE pride in having one of the most prolific scorers this game has ever seen in a Lakers uniform for 20 years, all of a sudden feel as though the ability to score is an afterthought or no big deal. |
True, but only because some people are exaggerating. That's just message board psychology. I think most people know that scoring is important, but hope that Ball can bring a mix of skills that will offset his (at least for now) weakness as a shooter. Despite some of the things I've written here, I am open to the possibility that the Lakers could develop a successful paradigm that does not depend on volume scoring from the PG position. Teams like the Warriors changed the conventional wisdom, but that doesn't mean that the conventional wisdom is carved in stone. |
The Warriors aren’t built around a ball dominant volume scoring PG. Quite the opposite. They just happen to have the best shooter of all time listed as their PG(and he doesn’t even do typical PG things a lot of the time). Winning championships in the modern NBA doesn’t revolve around volume scoring PGs. Kyrie did it because he had Lebron, not because it’s some key to a championship team. That’s actually very rare on championship teams that don’t have Lebron on them.
The Warriors are built around defensive versatility and unselfhness on offense with pace and movement. Not shooting. Their PG is their leading scorer because he’s the best scorer, not because they need a volume scoring PG to run their system. That’s a common misconception of what they do. Lonzo would thrive as the Warriors PG despite his scoring struggles.
People aren’t saying scoring doesn’t matter in any way, the exaggeration is coming from Rashard. Some just can’t put scorings importance into context. Or understand the importance of the other facets of the game. |
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epak
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Funkbot wrote: | | BynumForThree wrote: | | Ironic this is even a discussion in the thread dedicated to a player that was taken on the assumption that his offense was so extraordinary that his perceived defensive shortcomings weren't significant enough to offset his offensive potential. |
Agreed. His defense was a super pleasant surprise! |
Great point bynum.
His defense is a great surprise. We love it. |
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BynumForThree
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| splashmtn wrote: | | BynumForThree wrote: | | Ironic this is even a discussion in the thread dedicated to a player that was taken on the assumption that his offense was so extraordinary that his perceived defensive shortcomings weren't significant enough to offset his offensive potential. |
his offense being passing. |
Okay?
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If Brandon Knight were to come out, I would take him number 1 in the draft. - Magic Johnson Mar 27, 2011
For all of you out there questioning Jimmer Fredette of BYU, he is the real deal. - Magic Johnson Mar 20, 2011 |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | The Warriors aren’t built around a ball dominant volume scoring PG. |
"Ball dominant" is something you added. Curry is a volume scoring PG. He averaged 30 ppg two years ago, then 25 and 26 after Durant arrived. Right now, the Warriors have two future Hall of Famers and two all-star caliber role players. With that many weapons, they aren't truly dependent on anyone. It was a different story when they won their first title three years ago.
That's the paradigm for the PG position right now. Whether it remains the paradigm for an extended period of time remains to be seen. Maybe the Ball-era Lakers will change it. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | The Warriors aren’t built around a ball dominant volume scoring PG. |
"Ball dominant" is something you added. Curry is a volume scoring PG. He averaged 30 ppg two years ago, then 25 and 26 after Durant arrived. Right now, the Warriors have two future Hall of Famers and two all-star caliber role players. With that many weapons, they aren't truly dependent on anyone. It was a different story when they won their first title three years ago.
That's the paradigm for the PG position right now. Whether it remains the paradigm for an extended period of time remains to be seen. Maybe the Ball-era Lakers will change it. |
Maybe we have different definitions of volume scoring PG, but while I totally agree that Westbrook is a volume scoring PG, I can't say the same of Curry because he's actually efficient and actually moves the ball more.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
It's mind blowing that a fan base that took the ULTIMATE pride in having one of the most prolific scorers this game has ever seen in a Lakers uniform for 20 years, all of a sudden feel as though the ability to score is an afterthought or no big deal. |
We had Magic first.
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Batguano
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: |
It's mind blowing that a fan base that took the ULTIMATE pride in having one of the most prolific scorers this game has ever seen in a Lakers uniform for 20 years, all of a sudden feel as though the ability to score is an afterthought or no big deal. |
We had Magic first. |
I don't think anyone is saying that scoring is an afterthought. It's more that Lonzo is so special at doing everything else that he could still be a hell of a player even with that glaring flaw in his game (see Kidd, Rondo).
Besides, the argument is Lonzo vs Donovan Mitchell, and you're bringing up Kobe, who's one of the greatest scorers of all time. If Mitchell was a Kobe-level impact scorer then yes I would prefer him over Lonzo. But if he's just the next Demar Derozan then I'd rather have Lonzo. |
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strong9
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Batguano wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: |
It's mind blowing that a fan base that took the ULTIMATE pride in having one of the most prolific scorers this game has ever seen in a Lakers uniform for 20 years, all of a sudden feel as though the ability to score is an afterthought or no big deal. |
We had Magic first. |
I don't think anyone is saying that scoring is an afterthought. It's more that Lonzo is so special at doing everything else that he could still be a hell of a player even with that glaring flaw in his game (see Kidd, Rondo).
Besides, the argument is Lonzo vs Donovan Mitchell, and you're bringing up Kobe, who's one of the greatest scorers of all time. If Mitchell was a Kobe-level impact scorer then yes I would prefer him over Lonzo. But if he's just the next Demar Derozan then I'd rather have Lonzo. |
Kobe wasn't a Kobe level scorer in his rookie year. Too early to judge on Mitchell. Besides this is a futile debate...we have Ball for better or worse. I like Ball as much as I like DLo, which is not at all, but no point looking at players we don't have. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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I'll just say this now. Mitchell is so far ahead of DeRozan's curve in terms of scoring ability by age. The numbers won't indicate the multitude of ways he attacks.
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Batguano
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | I'll just say this now. Mitchell is so far ahead of DeRozan's curve in terms of scoring ability by age. The numbers won't indicate the multitude of ways he attacks. |
So he'll be a Kobe-level scorer then? |
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