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splashmtn
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:30 pm    Post subject:

Eindhoven wrote:
splashmtn wrote:


https://newsone.com/3815832/lavar-ball-jba-facebook-views/

Quote:
With all of its games streamed on Facebook, the JBA has averaged “between 100,000 and 200,000 views” for each contest, according to a report published in the Undefeated on Friday. When Ball’s son and star player, LaMelo, plays, his “games have closer to 800,000.”


Take Facebook Video views with a ton of salt. You can’t compare it to YouTube.

If you put a lot of money on Facebook Ads, it will show up on a lot of people’s timeline and depending on how you access it, it plays automatically, so you actually buy your views. One may believe 800K people watched a 2h long basketball game, but if you get the Analytics, don’t be surprised if the average time people spent on those videos are 10-20 seconds, or less. That counts much more than views.

JBA page has 21K likes, so no way their actual audience as 800K.


sounds good. but dont be fooled by all the hate.

to hate on something as much as they do lavar and the media constantly reports every thing wrong with the jba and lavar. the only way thats possible is if someone is actually watching the games to have something to say.

And I'll say this. why are you tuning into something you already know is going to suck(per the haters)? I dont go run to click on things I think will suick(bad movies, bad tv.) why would someone do that for a basketball league that just started?

why would 800k people do that? why would 200k people continue to do that?


and then you can look at all of the views for any video with the letters JBA in it. and you see things from like 6k to 2.something million. NO matter if You love em or hate em, you're watching. and thats all that matters.

I'm keeping it simple. remember the JBA is not technically on par with the G league yet because it does not have the backing of the nba nor does it have the backing of a giant company like gatorade. But goto youtube right now and type in JBA highlights. just look at the view counts. Then go type in G league South Bay lakers. and look at those views. Night and day. We know the south bay lakers are a better run team basketball wise than the Los angeles team that Lamelo and gelo play for in the jba. doesnt matter. this is what the kids are checking for. Only us old heads are watching g league highlights. lol.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:07 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
christopherorman wrote:
But, I am willing to bet you have your preconceived notions already, which likely start with there is no way in hell Ball is an A on defense and a C on offense in your eyes.


We all have our preconceived notions. Most of us don't publish them. People who publish their ideas on the internet make themselves fair game. That is just as true of your buddy as it is of anyone else.

When someone says that Ball is a C on offense and Simmons is an F, the logical conclusion is that the person is a quack. I don't care whether this person is a friend of yours. If you publish your ideas on the internet, and they are garbage, you had best expect to get called out for it. If you say, "This will all make sense when I explain myself next month," you had better expect people to laugh at you. From what I can see on the Twitter feed, that is exactly what is happening.


But it isn't garbage, it is a skills-based assessment and one that my personal eye test agrees with. What he explained in the quotes above was that Simmon's physical talents are more formidable than his skill level. And he didn't use his model to analyze physical talents. Simmons superior size for a shot creator was a huge advantage for him last season and assuming his skill level continues to increase, his score will increase. You are looking at the pie while he is explaining only the filling.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:05 pm    Post subject:

Judah wrote:
Looks like Lonzo’s daughter, Zoey, was born yesterday. Happy for him.

She was born about 6 days late, I'm guessing God wanted to make sure she was fully prepared to endure Grandpa LaVar.


I think little Zoey heard Lavar's mouth and decided to stay in as long as possible.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:37 pm    Post subject:

audioaxes wrote:
Id highly doubt either of those ventures are making money... in fact they are likely bleeding money big time. Those businesses are just propped up from their facebook reality show revenue and Lonzo's NBA money.


Why would BBB be bleeding money? What costs do they have?

The JBA is probably bleeding money though. I can't see BBB.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:35 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
Id highly doubt either of those ventures are making money... in fact they are likely bleeding money big time. Those businesses are just propped up from their facebook reality show revenue and Lonzo's NBA money.


Why would BBB be bleeding money? What costs do they have?

The JBA is probably bleeding money though. I can't see BBB.


if Lonzo has a break out type of year this season or even next season....get that guy on a Nike, adidas, or Puma deal.....lock in that money, and you can still have BBB as an apparel brand. Honestly, this would be my advice for him right now if the shoe companies have a strong interest in Lonzo....lock up that money.....they appear to sell more apparel than shoes anyway. Maybe everything goes perfect.....and in 4-5 years Lonzo is a big enough star to have leverage to do some type of crossover shoe deal with one of the big companies....but right now, it does not seem like the BBB shoes have made any market progress this past year, and Lonzo is just forfeiting big shoe money for no good reason.

I thought the shoes were a mistake from the beginning....it is too tough of a market without massive brand appeal.....take the UA aprroach....build a brand, then dip your toe into the shoe market.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:52 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
Id highly doubt either of those ventures are making money... in fact they are likely bleeding money big time. Those businesses are just propped up from their facebook reality show revenue and Lonzo's NBA money.


Why would BBB be bleeding money? What costs do they have?

The JBA is probably bleeding money though. I can't see BBB.


if Lonzo has a break out type of year this season or even next season....get that guy on a Nike, adidas, or Puma deal.....lock in that money, and you can still have BBB as an apparel brand. Honestly, this would be my advice for him right now if the shoe companies have a strong interest in Lonzo....lock up that money.....they appear to sell more apparel than shoes anyway. Maybe everything goes perfect.....and in 4-5 years Lonzo is a big enough star to have leverage to do some type of crossover shoe deal with one of the big companies....but right now, it does not seem like the BBB shoes have made any market progress this past year, and Lonzo is just forfeiting big shoe money for no good reason.

I thought the shoes were a mistake from the beginning....it is too tough of a market without massive brand appeal.....take the UA aprroach....build a brand, then dip your toe into the shoe market.


This makes sense!
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:21 pm    Post subject:

https://nypost.com/2018/07/23/lavar-ball-is-now-a-grandfather/

"The newest addition to the Big Baller family has arrived. Lonzo Ball’s girlfriend, Denise Garcia, welcomed the couple’s first child, daughter Zoey Christina Ball, on Sunday, a rep confirmed to TMZ. Shortly before giving birth, Garcia took to Instagram rocking a pale pink bathrobe with “Momma” stitched on the back, captioning the snap, “Ready when you are.” Garcia celebrated her coming baby in May with a pink-themed shower. “Thank you everyone who came to celebrate baby Zoey❣️She’s already so blessed and loved 💕,” she gushed. Garcia and the Lakers point guard have been together since high school. "
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:49 pm    Post subject:

Zoey Ball + Bianka Bryant will be dominating for the L.A. Sparks
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:55 pm    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
Eindhoven wrote:
splashmtn wrote:


https://newsone.com/3815832/lavar-ball-jba-facebook-views/

Quote:
With all of its games streamed on Facebook, the JBA has averaged “between 100,000 and 200,000 views” for each contest, according to a report published in the Undefeated on Friday. When Ball’s son and star player, LaMelo, plays, his “games have closer to 800,000.”


Take Facebook Video views with a ton of salt. You can’t compare it to YouTube.

If you put a lot of money on Facebook Ads, it will show up on a lot of people’s timeline and depending on how you access it, it plays automatically, so you actually buy your views. One may believe 800K people watched a 2h long basketball game, but if you get the Analytics, don’t be surprised if the average time people spent on those videos are 10-20 seconds, or less. That counts much more than views.

JBA page has 21K likes, so no way their actual audience as 800K.


sounds good. but dont be fooled by all the hate.

to hate on something as much as they do lavar and the media constantly reports every thing wrong with the jba and lavar. the only way thats possible is if someone is actually watching the games to have something to say.

And I'll say this. why are you tuning into something you already know is going to suck(per the haters)? I dont go run to click on things I think will suick(bad movies, bad tv.) why would someone do that for a basketball league that just started?

why would 800k people do that? why would 200k people continue to do that?


and then you can look at all of the views for any video with the letters JBA in it. and you see things from like 6k to 2.something million. NO matter if You love em or hate em, you're watching. and thats all that matters.

I'm keeping it simple. remember the JBA is not technically on par with the G league yet because it does not have the backing of the nba nor does it have the backing of a giant company like gatorade. But goto youtube right now and type in JBA highlights. just look at the view counts. Then go type in G league South Bay lakers. and look at those views. Night and day. We know the south bay lakers are a better run team basketball wise than the Los angeles team that Lamelo and gelo play for in the jba. doesnt matter. this is what the kids are checking for. Only us old heads are watching g league highlights. lol.


I don't deny the family draws a lot of attention, all I'm saying, from a digital media perspective is how Facebook Video views work. You're watching your timeline and if you are targeted in their campaign, chances are you counted as a view, even though you didn't watch the video, as it play automatically - unless you set it not to do so.

If I had to evaluate a sponsorship opportunity for JBA, first thing I'd ask is give me the Analytics of those views. How many seconds do people spend on these videos? How many unique users you have? Where does your traffic come from?

They have more highlights views than G-League, yet G-League has 5x more subscribers, it means, regular viewers.

I'm writing it from a digital marketing perspective. If you dive on their analytics, maybe you have a more qualified audience for G-League than JBA. You gotta know how to surf the hype JBA is having, but is it sustainable enough? We shall see...
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:07 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
Id highly doubt either of those ventures are making money... in fact they are likely bleeding money big time. Those businesses are just propped up from their facebook reality show revenue and Lonzo's NBA money.


Why would BBB be bleeding money? What costs do they have?

The JBA is probably bleeding money though. I can't see BBB.


if Lonzo has a break out type of year this season or even next season....get that guy on a Nike, adidas, or Puma deal.....lock in that money, and you can still have BBB as an apparel brand. Honestly, this would be my advice for him right now if the shoe companies have a strong interest in Lonzo....lock up that money.....they appear to sell more apparel than shoes anyway. Maybe everything goes perfect.....and in 4-5 years Lonzo is a big enough star to have leverage to do some type of crossover shoe deal with one of the big companies....but right now, it does not seem like the BBB shoes have made any market progress this past year, and Lonzo is just forfeiting big shoe money for no good reason.

I thought the shoes were a mistake from the beginning....it is too tough of a market without massive brand appeal.....take the UA aprroach....build a brand, then dip your toe into the shoe market.


You are absolutely spot on. I can't say BBB is bleeding money, because I don't even know how their structure looks like. Do they have an office, designers, proper employed people? Or does it all come from third parties and they just pay a % of the sales?

Either way, the shoes business is a tough one. While you are a small guy in a very small niche, you may not need much. But if you want to compete, the structure you must put together is huge.

If you play just in the apparel game, it's much easier. Just compare how many players you have and how big they are in each market.

One may grow playing in niche markets, like DC Shoes have (though they just broke out after being acquired by Quiksilver), but BBB is a Basketball brand, one of the top 3 markets for shoes, along Football (or soccer, as you call) and Running.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:01 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
Id highly doubt either of those ventures are making money... in fact they are likely bleeding money big time. Those businesses are just propped up from their facebook reality show revenue and Lonzo's NBA money.


Why would BBB be bleeding money? What costs do they have?

The JBA is probably bleeding money though. I can't see BBB.


if Lonzo has a break out type of year this season or even next season....get that guy on a Nike, adidas, or Puma deal.....lock in that money, and you can still have BBB as an apparel brand. Honestly, this would be my advice for him right now if the shoe companies have a strong interest in Lonzo....lock up that money.....they appear to sell more apparel than shoes anyway. Maybe everything goes perfect.....and in 4-5 years Lonzo is a big enough star to have leverage to do some type of crossover shoe deal with one of the big companies....but right now, it does not seem like the BBB shoes have made any market progress this past year, and Lonzo is just forfeiting big shoe money for no good reason.

I thought the shoes were a mistake from the beginning....it is too tough of a market without massive brand appeal.....take the UA aprroach....build a brand, then dip your toe into the shoe market.
thats not a bad idea. but you have to remember. he would not get a big shoe deal from these companies. at least not yet. now maybe puma might come with the cash since jayz is over there now and they are trying to really flirt with the urban side of things which actually means what are the youth looking for. the youth love them some bbb. now most of them can't afford those shoes. but they still love the ball brothers. and they think lavar is hilarious for better or for worse. But the usual suspect like Nike/addidas. They will give him a standard deal. Unless he turns into MVP Drose over night.

This is the main reason for lavar trying to pull the shoe move anyway. There isnt a ton of money in shoe deals when you're a young player unless you turn into a monster in the first 2 or 3 years.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:10 am    Post subject:

Eindhoven wrote:
splashmtn wrote:
Eindhoven wrote:
splashmtn wrote:


https://newsone.com/3815832/lavar-ball-jba-facebook-views/

Quote:
With all of its games streamed on Facebook, the JBA has averaged “between 100,000 and 200,000 views” for each contest, according to a report published in the Undefeated on Friday. When Ball’s son and star player, LaMelo, plays, his “games have closer to 800,000.”


Take Facebook Video views with a ton of salt. You can’t compare it to YouTube.

If you put a lot of money on Facebook Ads, it will show up on a lot of people’s timeline and depending on how you access it, it plays automatically, so you actually buy your views. One may believe 800K people watched a 2h long basketball game, but if you get the Analytics, don’t be surprised if the average time people spent on those videos are 10-20 seconds, or less. That counts much more than views.

JBA page has 21K likes, so no way their actual audience as 800K.


sounds good. but dont be fooled by all the hate.

to hate on something as much as they do lavar and the media constantly reports every thing wrong with the jba and lavar. the only way thats possible is if someone is actually watching the games to have something to say.

And I'll say this. why are you tuning into something you already know is going to suck(per the haters)? I dont go run to click on things I think will suick(bad movies, bad tv.) why would someone do that for a basketball league that just started?

why would 800k people do that? why would 200k people continue to do that?


and then you can look at all of the views for any video with the letters JBA in it. and you see things from like 6k to 2.something million. NO matter if You love em or hate em, you're watching. and thats all that matters.

I'm keeping it simple. remember the JBA is not technically on par with the G league yet because it does not have the backing of the nba nor does it have the backing of a giant company like gatorade. But goto youtube right now and type in JBA highlights. just look at the view counts. Then go type in G league South Bay lakers. and look at those views. Night and day. We know the south bay lakers are a better run team basketball wise than the Los angeles team that Lamelo and gelo play for in the jba. doesnt matter. this is what the kids are checking for. Only us old heads are watching g league highlights. lol.


I don't deny the family draws a lot of attention, all I'm saying, from a digital media perspective is how Facebook Video views work. You're watching your timeline and if you are targeted in their campaign, chances are you counted as a view, even though you didn't watch the video, as it play automatically - unless you set it not to do so.

If I had to evaluate a sponsorship opportunity for JBA, first thing I'd ask is give me the Analytics of those views. How many seconds do people spend on these videos? How many unique users you have? Where does your traffic come from?

They have more highlights views than G-League, yet G-League has 5x more subscribers, it means, regular viewers.

I'm writing it from a digital marketing perspective. If you dive on their analytics, maybe you have a more qualified audience for G-League than JBA. You gotta know how to surf the hype JBA is having, but is it sustainable enough? We shall see...
all excellent points. and this is the stuff we will find out at some point in the future.

Like i keep telling people. every supposed mis-step of lavar's is televised. but in reality its a normal issue for all startups.

Like i said. the jba has more buzz than the dleague had before it became the g league. it has more buzz than the CBA ever had. and both leagues had better players, a better structure, the big boys backing them, etc. But all non NBA leagues will hurt for a very long time before they become the norm. thats just is what it is. just like the above posted is breaking down the shoe game.
BBB shoes no matter the price can only do so well in a saturated market locked up by Nike, Brand Jordan, then Addidas, then UA in that order. I still remember UA. it took them a very long time to be respectable. and lets be honest. they have only recently become LEGIT due to their endorsement of steph curry. if he never signed with them. Most people in the basketball space would not care about them. and they have been around for a lot longer than BBB shoes. People seem to think because he has the hype of a major company that he will get the sales of a major. nope, it doesnt work that way. unless we're talking about some programmer coming up with an APP. and they usually end up selling their stuff off to the big boys for a huge profit. I'm not sure lavar wants to do that. I think he has a vision of keeping the family business going. similar to the lakers being the Buss family business. doing so means he will have a huge uphill battle. and he will likely earn less money per year but could do well in the long term and do even better for his kids and their kids in the future.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:55 am    Post subject:

Congrats Zo and Zoe
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:59 am    Post subject:

Judah wrote:
Looks like Lonzo’s daughter, Zoey, was born yesterday. Happy for him.

She was born about 6 days late, I'm guessing God wanted to make sure she was fully prepared to endure Grandpa LaVar.


Very cool to hear
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:54 pm    Post subject:

Looks on schedule to me.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:10 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
Id highly doubt either of those ventures are making money... in fact they are likely bleeding money big time. Those businesses are just propped up from their facebook reality show revenue and Lonzo's NBA money.


Why would BBB be bleeding money? What costs do they have?

The JBA is probably bleeding money though. I can't see BBB.


if Lonzo has a break out type of year this season or even next season....get that guy on a Nike, adidas, or Puma deal.....lock in that money, and you can still have BBB as an apparel brand. Honestly, this would be my advice for him right now if the shoe companies have a strong interest in Lonzo....lock up that money.....they appear to sell more apparel than shoes anyway. Maybe everything goes perfect.....and in 4-5 years Lonzo is a big enough star to have leverage to do some type of crossover shoe deal with one of the big companies....but right now, it does not seem like the BBB shoes have made any market progress this past year, and Lonzo is just forfeiting big shoe money for no good reason.

I thought the shoes were a mistake from the beginning....it is too tough of a market without massive brand appeal.....take the UA aprroach....build a brand, then dip your toe into the shoe market.


I disagree with this. The largest boon to BBB the past 6 months was Lebron signing in LA. Lonzo will now have global exposure playing next to Lebron that he didnt have before since the Lakers weren't very good; he just had the Laker brand on his jersey. Expect merchandise sales to jump up starting in October when the season starts.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:12 pm    Post subject:

ItsJustMagic wrote:
adkindo wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
Id highly doubt either of those ventures are making money... in fact they are likely bleeding money big time. Those businesses are just propped up from their facebook reality show revenue and Lonzo's NBA money.


Why would BBB be bleeding money? What costs do they have?

The JBA is probably bleeding money though. I can't see BBB.


if Lonzo has a break out type of year this season or even next season....get that guy on a Nike, adidas, or Puma deal.....lock in that money, and you can still have BBB as an apparel brand. Honestly, this would be my advice for him right now if the shoe companies have a strong interest in Lonzo....lock up that money.....they appear to sell more apparel than shoes anyway. Maybe everything goes perfect.....and in 4-5 years Lonzo is a big enough star to have leverage to do some type of crossover shoe deal with one of the big companies....but right now, it does not seem like the BBB shoes have made any market progress this past year, and Lonzo is just forfeiting big shoe money for no good reason.

I thought the shoes were a mistake from the beginning....it is too tough of a market without massive brand appeal.....take the UA aprroach....build a brand, then dip your toe into the shoe market.


This makes sense!


+1
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:12 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
Id highly doubt either of those ventures are making money... in fact they are likely bleeding money big time. Those businesses are just propped up from their facebook reality show revenue and Lonzo's NBA money.


Why would BBB be bleeding money? What costs do they have?

The JBA is probably bleeding money though. I can't see BBB.


if Lonzo has a break out type of year this season or even next season....get that guy on a Nike, adidas, or Puma deal.....lock in that money, and you can still have BBB as an apparel brand. Honestly, this would be my advice for him right now if the shoe companies have a strong interest in Lonzo....lock up that money.....they appear to sell more apparel than shoes anyway. Maybe everything goes perfect.....and in 4-5 years Lonzo is a big enough star to have leverage to do some type of crossover shoe deal with one of the big companies....but right now, it does not seem like the BBB shoes have made any market progress this past year, and Lonzo is just forfeiting big shoe money for no good reason.

I thought the shoes were a mistake from the beginning....it is too tough of a market without massive brand appeal.....take the UA aprroach....build a brand, then dip your toe into the shoe market.


If they are serious they should 100% stick it out. Like all deals most star athletes make, what they are paid is a fraction of what they are generating. If Lonzo signs with Nike and makes 45 mil a year know that he is at least making DOUBLE that for Nike. If he sticks with BBB and becomes a star he is going to be making money that his great great great grandkids will have.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:25 pm    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
Like i said. the jba has more buzz than the dleague had before it became the g league.


You could be right. However, from my perspective, it is getting no buzz at all. If it weren't for the occasional reference on this board, I wouldn't even remember that it exists. My perspective may not be representative of anything. It may be getting buzz in other circles.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:34 pm    Post subject:

Get well soon Zo and get back on the court.
Kind of sick that we have to talk about the JBA in your stead.
Watched some of the JBA and it's like watching high school basketball.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:40 pm    Post subject:

LakesGnrLake wrote:
If they are serious they should 100% stick it out. Like all deals most star athletes make, what they are paid is a fraction of what they are generating. If Lonzo signs with Nike and makes 45 mil a year know that he is at least making DOUBLE that for Nike. If he sticks with BBB and becomes a star he is going to be making money that his great great great grandkids will have.


That is dependent on BBB selling enormous volumes of his shoes. That could happen, but it's unlikely, even if he becomes a star.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:59 pm    Post subject:

If Lonzo signs with Nike/Adidas/UA, they're not gonna let him continue being the official BBB guy...didn't him and his camp already disagree on a partnership deal right around when he got drafted? It seems like it's either one or the other.
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:14 pm    Post subject:

trablos wrote:
If Lonzo signs with Nike/Adidas/UA, they're not gonna let him continue being the official BBB guy...didn't him and his camp already disagree on a partnership deal right around when he got drafted? It seems like it's either one or the other.


maybe, but maybe if BBB is out of the shoe game, he could sign a shoe only deal? Honestly, I do not have any idea how the deals work....but I am just basing off of the most successful recent entry into the shoe market, and that was Under Armour. They had a world wide brand and corporate infrastructure before they made their first shoe. At that point, your dictating the terms for productions and suppliers are competing for your business. Still, UA only has less than 3% of the US athletic shoe market. It is a very tough market with extreme loyalty. A lot of guys would never put a pair of BBB shoes on their feet, but would have no issue wearing a BBB shirt or hat.

Also, the way you get that 2nd shoe contract that is big.....is to prove you can sell shoes on that first contract. That is where I think Ball could be missing out....positioning for that 2nd contract.
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Halflife
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:55 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
splashmtn wrote:
Like i said. the jba has more buzz than the dleague had before it became the g league.


You could be right. However, from my perspective, it is getting no buzz at all. If it weren't for the occasional reference on this board, I wouldn't even remember that it exists. My perspective may not be representative of anything. It may be getting buzz in other circles.

I’m with you. I forgot it existed until reminded a couple posts ago. The big3 will carry the shoulder basketball programming.
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tox
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:39 pm    Post subject:

Halflife wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
splashmtn wrote:
Like i said. the jba has more buzz than the dleague had before it became the g league.


You could be right. However, from my perspective, it is getting no buzz at all. If it weren't for the occasional reference on this board, I wouldn't even remember that it exists. My perspective may not be representative of anything. It may be getting buzz in other circles.

I’m with you. I forgot it existed until reminded a couple posts ago. The big3 will carry the shoulder basketball programming.

I'd never even heard of the JBA so
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