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Aeneas Hunter
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 Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| AllorNothing wrote: | | How was Rick Rubio defensively vs lonzo? |
I would say that Ball was a little better as a rookie, but if I recall correctly, Rubio was more of an on-ball defender than Ball. |
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PlantedTanks
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Joined: 01 Jul 2017
Posts: 3156
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | PauPau wrote: | | lakersibleed wrote: | Someone from another forum called Lonzo the next Ricky Rubio in a disparaging way.
I feel like if Lonzo can have the kind of shooting year Rubio had last year, this year will be a great building year for him!
GP MIN FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT%
77 29.3 4.5-10.7 .418 1.2-3.5 .352 2.9-3.3 .866 |
I think that's pretty accurate, nothing disparaging about that. Ricky is a really good player |
Sure, but bear in mind that it took Rubio until his fifth season to become a productive player on the offensive end. Rubio's numbers in his second season (at age 22) were .360/.293/.799. That won't cut it. |
Rubio has been an efficient offensive player even with such a poor TS% because of a robust ATR on lower usage combined with his ability to manufacture trips to the line and hit ≥80% of his attempts. Rubio has always struggled finishing at the rim, he's never developed much of a floater, and he's only in the past few seasons improved his pull-up jumper rather than remaining a static, standstill set shooter.
Lonzo has a lot of skill work to do, of course, but he's more offensively advanced than Rubio by age because he's entered the league with a true (if ugly) jumpshot and he's flashed a floater and a two-level pull-up jumper already. Moreover, where Rubio may be a little more quick laterally, Lonzo is much more explosive off of two feet, which makes him a viable lob threat as a cutter.
IMO, Lonzo has an easier path towards complementary offensive efficiency while continuing to improve as an on-ball creator whereas young Rubio was more like Rondo in needing the ball in his hands to provide positive offensive value (which came through free throws, passing, and avoiding jumpshots like the plague). So I'd expect Lonzo's TS% to rise - perhaps precipitously - alongside another playmaker with gravity who can leverage Lonzo's off-ball craftiness, while Zo can better exploit scrambling defenses with his passing. Basically, I doubt young Rubio would've been as efficient as I think Lonzo will be playing off Lebron next season. |
This was a nice read and solid analysis. Agree with every point you made.
Double down on the bolded and as you pointed out he has improved through the years. |
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Halflife
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Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 16703
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | AllorNothing wrote: | | How was Rick Rubio defensively vs lonzo? |
I would say that Ball was a little better as a rookie, but if I recall correctly, Rubio was more of an on-ball defender than Ball. |
I disagree. Zo was one of the best defensive pg in league. If he builds on rook season he will be elite IMHO. |
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lakersboi1993
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Joined: 10 Jun 2014
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| Make or break year for lonzo if he underachieve he's outta here |
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tkLAKERS
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersboi1993 wrote: | | Make or break year for lonzo if he underachieve he's outta here |
...I doubt that. Not with Magic in the FO.
Lonzo will have at least one more year to prove himself. |
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kikanga
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Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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Ignoring salary and salary cap, who do you guys think would be a fair 1-for-1 trade for Lonzo? Just want to know where you guys see his value.
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Halflife
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | Ignoring salary and salary cap, who do you guys think would be a fair 1-for-1 trade for Lonzo? Just want to know where you guys see his value. |
donovan mitchell |
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TheBlackMamba
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Joined: 23 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | Ignoring salary and salary cap, who do you guys think would be a fair 1-for-1 trade for Lonzo? Just want to know where you guys see his value. |
donovan mitchell |
Yeah...good luck with that. |
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LakersForever123
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Joined: 07 Oct 2012
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | Ignoring salary and salary cap, who do you guys think would be a fair 1-for-1 trade for Lonzo? Just want to know where you guys see his value. |
donovan mitchell |
lonzo ball for a 2019 top 5 draft pick. |
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Judah
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersboi1993 wrote: | | Make or break year for lonzo if he underachieve he's outta here |
Ah, the voice of reason.
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epak
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Judah wrote: | | lakersboi1993 wrote: | | Make or break year for lonzo if he underachieve he's outta here |
Ah, the voice of reason. |
Sound logic  |
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Judah
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | Judah wrote: | | lakersboi1993 wrote: | | Make or break year for lonzo if he underachieve he's outta here |
Ah, the voice of reason. |
Sound logic |
I love it when people come to the table with this "make or break year" stuff for Lonzo, as if he was just straight up trash last year or something  I guess that game in NO summarized his rookie year from their vantage point.
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hype
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:12 am Post subject: |
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| Judah wrote: | | epak wrote: | | Judah wrote: | | lakersboi1993 wrote: | | Make or break year for lonzo if he underachieve he's outta here |
Ah, the voice of reason. |
Sound logic |
I love it when people come to the table with this "make or break year" stuff for Lonzo, as if he was just straight up trash last year or something I guess that game in NO summarized his rookie year from their vantage point. |
pretty much, just shows the people who don't watch the actual games and try to still pretend like they know everything.. they see he struggled to shoot much of the year so everything else he did great at as a rookie doesn't matter 
that is pretty much the logic of the majority of casual fans I have found out.. I just had a guy tell me congrats on getting lebron but too bad lonzo is such a bust and I have to listen to his dad but he thinks the lakers are going to just release him at some point soon lmao |
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oldlakerfan
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| hype wrote: | | Judah wrote: | | epak wrote: | | Judah wrote: | | lakersboi1993 wrote: | | Make or break year for lonzo if he underachieve he's outta here |
Ah, the voice of reason. |
Sound logic |
I love it when people come to the table with this "make or break year" stuff for Lonzo, as if he was just straight up trash last year or something I guess that game in NO summarized his rookie year from their vantage point. |
pretty much, just shows the people who don't watch the actual games and try to still pretend like they know everything.. they see he struggled to shoot much of the year so everything else he did great at as a rookie doesn't matter
that is pretty much the logic of the majority of casual fans I have found out.. I just had a guy tell me congrats on getting lebron but too bad lonzo is such a bust and I have to listen to his dad but he thinks the lakers are going to just release him at some point soon lmao |
Lonzo just needs to be healthy and to settle in to the game.
His passing, Defense and Rebounding are already great. He just needs to become comfortable and confident in his shot which will come. He also needs to improve on his driving and dishing game as his finishes around the hoop must become stronger.
It is too bad that he could not go all out this off season due to the knee but at least that is fixed and he did get to work on his body and watch a bunch of film. He has also worked on his shot and it is cleaner and he is more balanced.
I think it will also help him that he does not have to be the main attraction like last year. Lebron will suck up the spotlight and Zo can play a supporting role. It will also help that his supporting cast will be greatly improved with Lebron and all the young dudes stepping up and improving their games.
He has great mentors in Magic, Lebron and Rondo and a great young group to grow with and he will be fine. He will be the straw that stirs the drink but lets hope isn't a paper straw and holds up for the season. |
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LandsbergerRules
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:08 am Post subject: |
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Hell, if Zo gets to the league AVERAGE from three and from the line and stays healthy, I'd be cool if everything else was about the same as last year.
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governator
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:17 am Post subject: |
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| LandsbergerRules wrote: | | Hell, if Zo gets to the league AVERAGE from three and from the line and stays healthy, I'd be cool if everything else was about the same as last year. |
So... a taller, more athletic, prime all-star version of Jason Kidd |
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LandsbergerRules
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:24 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | LandsbergerRules wrote: | | Hell, if Zo gets to the league AVERAGE from three and from the line and stays healthy, I'd be cool if everything else was about the same as last year. |
So... a taller, more athletic, prime all-star version of Jason Kidd |
Nah, prime Kidd could also take it to the hole and had a post game.
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"Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
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hdtvset
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Location: LA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:04 am Post subject: |
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| Is he clear to practice yet? Can't wait to see them play. |
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pio2u
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| Once Zo gets back into game shape he will show a marked improvement in his overall game. Don't sleep on this kid, he's going to be something special. |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:25 am Post subject: |
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| LandsbergerRules wrote: | | governator wrote: | | LandsbergerRules wrote: | | Hell, if Zo gets to the league AVERAGE from three and from the line and stays healthy, I'd be cool if everything else was about the same as last year. |
So... a taller, more athletic, prime all-star version of Jason Kidd |
Nah, prime Kidd could also take it to the hole and had a post game. |
Shouldn't we compare first year Ball to first year Kidd, not prime Kidd? Rookie stats are favorable for Ball.
Kidd even had an extra year of college to polish his game and develop his skills. Can we give Ball a chance to get stronger and adapt?
I agree that Ball needs to improve his drive and finish and hit his FTs. IMO even more then his 3pt shot. If he can... a very nice piece to the Laker roster puzzle is set. Because his defense, feel for the game and passing is above average already. |
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waterman40
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| lakersboi1993 wrote: | | Make or break year for lonzo if he underachieve he's outta here |
Not make or break, but a pivotal year. If he is clearly outplayed by Rondo, then he likely loses his starting spot.
Lonzo already has a lot of the tools you want in a good guard; passing ability, hops, handle, rebounding, court vision and savvy. If he gets the shooting improved and makes more strides on defense, he will be our starting point guard for years to come.
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watchME
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | LandsbergerRules wrote: | | Hell, if Zo gets to the league AVERAGE from three and from the line and stays healthy, I'd be cool if everything else was about the same as last year. |
So... a taller, more athletic, prime all-star version of Jason Kidd |
Hi lavar |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:37 am Post subject: |
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| waterman40 wrote: | | lakersboi1993 wrote: | | Make or break year for lonzo if he underachieve he's outta here |
Not make or break, but a pivotal year. If he is clearly outplayed by Rondo, then he likely loses his starting spot.
Lonzo already has a lot of the tools you want in a good guard; passing ability, hops, handle, rebounding, court vision and savvy. If he gets the shooting improved and makes more strides on defense, he will be our starting point guard for years to come. |
RPM
Lonzo...+1.12
Rondo...-0.97
BPM
Lonzo....+1.7
Rondo....-1.1
VORP
Lonzo....+1.7
Rondo....+0.4
PIPM
Lonzo.....+1.38
Rondo.....-0.92
I'm pretty confident in Lonzo outplaying Rondo considering he did that last year too. When all of the one-number metrics point in the same direction, it's probably true. |
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governator
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | waterman40 wrote: | | lakersboi1993 wrote: | | Make or break year for lonzo if he underachieve he's outta here |
Not make or break, but a pivotal year. If he is clearly outplayed by Rondo, then he likely loses his starting spot.
Lonzo already has a lot of the tools you want in a good guard; passing ability, hops, handle, rebounding, court vision and savvy. If he gets the shooting improved and makes more strides on defense, he will be our starting point guard for years to come. |
RPM
Lonzo...+1.12
Rondo...-0.97
BPM
Lonzo....+1.7
Rondo....-1.1
VORP
Lonzo....+1.7
Rondo....+0.4
PIPM
Lonzo.....+1.38
Rondo.....-0.92
I'm pretty confident in Lonzo outplaying Rondo considering he did that last year too. When all of the one-number metrics point in the same direction, it's probably true. |
can someone translate that |
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laker50
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:25 am Post subject: |
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You must remember that Lonzo is only two years out of high school.
One year at UCLA where he shot well.
And a pressure filled first year with the Lakers with unreasonable expectations. He had no playmakers to play with.
This year he has Lebron and Rondo.
He should take the experience to learn from the best and also
stabilize his shot. |
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