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BigGameHames
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 Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | Don’t let your hatred for LaVar skew your ability to see the big picture behind what he is attempting to do. |
We really don't need to get sidetracked with another discussion about Lavar Balltic. If you think he is accomplishing something valuable in the big picture, that's great. Maybe you will be proven right. |
He says and does a lot of really stupid stuff but developing a shoe company isn’t one of them. It could benefit a lot of people if this becomes a more normal thing and it’s annoying how much hate he receives for challenging the status quo in this way. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | It's his own personal brand and life story. The intent of the rule seems to widely miss the mark to me. |
It is not his personal brand. It is not his life story. It is the trademark of a company that sells athletic gear. You know all that money that the players make? A significant portion, probably a majority, does not come from ticket sales. It comes from companies that pay for TV rights, marketing rights, apparel rights, and all of that sort of stuff. The money goes into a big pool called BRI, and the players collectively get their cut. Without all of that money, NBA players would be getting paid more like MLS players.
So if a player decides to tattoo someone's trademark on his body in a visible spot, he is going to cover it up. He isn't just messing with the league office and the owners. He is messing with every other player in the league. This is why the union and the other players aren't going to come riding to his defense. You don't mess with the source of the money because you want to promote your dad's silly shoe company. |
So the league has a money source off players' skin and arms? Good to know. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | It's his own personal brand and life story. The intent of the rule seems to widely miss the mark to me. |
It is not his personal brand. It is not his life story. It is the trademark of a company that sells athletic gear. You know all that money that the players make? A significant portion, probably a majority, does not come from ticket sales. It comes from companies that pay for TV rights, marketing rights, apparel rights, and all of that sort of stuff. The money goes into a big pool called BRI, and the players collectively get their cut. Without all of that money, NBA players would be getting paid more like MLS players.
So if a player decides to tattoo someone's trademark on his body in a visible spot, he is going to cover it up. He isn't just messing with the league office and the owners. He is messing with every other player in the league. This is why the union and the other players aren't going to come riding to his defense. You don't mess with the source of the money because you want to promote your dad's silly shoe company. |
Wait, the league has a money source off players' skin and arms? The tattoo is not hindering or altering the look of the jersey in any way worse than the differing brand on the shoes. |
Doesn't matter. It's in the CBA:
| Quote: |
Other than as may be incorporated into his Uniform and the manufacturer’s identification incorporated into his Sneakers, a player may not, during any NBA game, display any commercial, promotional, or charitable name, mark, logo or other identification, including but not limited to on his body, in his hair, or otherwise.
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From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | It's his own personal brand and life story. The intent of the rule seems to widely miss the mark to me. |
It is not his personal brand. It is not his life story. It is the trademark of a company that sells athletic gear. You know all that money that the players make? A significant portion, probably a majority, does not come from ticket sales. It comes from companies that pay for TV rights, marketing rights, apparel rights, and all of that sort of stuff. The money goes into a big pool called BRI, and the players collectively get their cut. Without all of that money, NBA players would be getting paid more like MLS players.
So if a player decides to tattoo someone's trademark on his body in a visible spot, he is going to cover it up. He isn't just messing with the league office and the owners. He is messing with every other player in the league. This is why the union and the other players aren't going to come riding to his defense. You don't mess with the source of the money because you want to promote your dad's silly shoe company. |
Wait, the league has a money source off players' skin and arms? The tattoo is not hindering or altering the look of the jersey in any way worse than the differing brand on the shoes. |
Doesn't matter. It's in the CBA:
| Quote: |
Other than as may be incorporated into his Uniform and the manufacturer’s identification incorporated into his Sneakers, a player may not, during any NBA game, display any commercial, promotional, or charitable name, mark, logo or other identification, including but not limited to on his body, in his hair, or otherwise.
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Then the league office should be very busy going through every player's personal body art. I guarantee there are many violations.
Isn't a Wu Tang tattoo a promotional display? I know I've seen a player with that one. |
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LKA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| manlisten wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
The syllogism is easy. You're complicating things for no reason.
1. Lonzo, players are members of the NBA players association.
2. They collectively bargained (and I gave you the specific article that addresses this) this issue.
What you're saying is:
1. even though we have an agreement, and a tatoo that is of a commerical purpose is covered, we're just going to disregard that.
2. Lonzo will make $ or his dad's company will gain free advertisement as a result.
3. NBA/teams have specific and exclusive rights to advertise on the jersey, and now you're pissing on that deal too.
I mean it's really simple. |
Where did I say to disregard the CBA? Your argument is basically it's a rule so it has to be followed. I'm not contesting that. I'm simply saying the rule doesn't make sense in context of other things that are allowed. You can have a Nike jersey and wear adidas shoes but you can't have an adidas tattoo. The rule states you can't even have a Nike tattoo so it's not about competing brands. None of the reasons for why you can't have a corporate tattoo add up when looking at the full picture. It's inconsistent. I don't think what I'm saying is difficult to comprehend. |
I agree the rule is stupid
Lonzo can wear BBB shoes but can’t have a little BBB tattoo on the back of his arm , which I didn’t even know he had until this news broke lol |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| manlisten wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
But they do make sense b/c if it didn't, why would the union agree to this?
You can't have a league that is reliant upon sponsorships for a huge source of revenue being undermined by individual advertising fiefdoms. Otherwise the companies that advertise with the NBA would feel that their estimable investments would be watered down. |
Players have individual advertisements on their feet every game. We're going in circles and I think I've had my fill. |
That’s by design. You didn’t discover a loophole or an inconsistency in the application of policy. It’s an intentional allowance. |
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daytripper
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| defense wrote: | | The whole censoring for corporations thing is outta hand imo. As long as the tattoos don't incite violence or harm anyone, they should be allowed to do what they want to their bodies. That's the kind of world we live in. Greed knows no bounds. |
It is what it is...unfortunately these corporations run the NBA (and the world tbh).
Not to mention the players (owners, coaches, etc) wouldn't be pulling down these astronomical paydays if it weren't for these big corporations funding the NBA through tv contracts, advertising, stadium/jersey naming rights, etc. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
But they do make sense b/c if it didn't, why would the union agree to this?
You can't have a league that is reliant upon sponsorships for a huge source of revenue being undermined by individual advertising fiefdoms. Otherwise the companies that advertise with the NBA would feel that their estimable investments would be watered down. |
Players have individual advertisements on their feet every game. We're going in circles and I think I've had my fill. |
That’s by design. You didn’t discover a loophole or an inconsistency in the application of policy. It’s an intentional allowance. |
And "individual advertisements" are covered by the CBA and allowed in the form of wearing Nikes, Adidas, BBB, etc.
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manlisten
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
But they do make sense b/c if it didn't, why would the union agree to this?
You can't have a league that is reliant upon sponsorships for a huge source of revenue being undermined by individual advertising fiefdoms. Otherwise the companies that advertise with the NBA would feel that their estimable investments would be watered down. |
Players have individual advertisements on their feet every game. We're going in circles and I think I've had my fill. |
That’s by design. You didn’t discover a loophole or an inconsistency in the application of policy. It’s an intentional allowance. |
You're completely misunderstanding the point and I don't even care anymore.
| LKA wrote: |
I agree the rule is stupid
Lonzo can wear BBB shoes but can’t have a little BBB tattoo on the back of his arm , which I didn’t even know he had until this news broke lol |
Thank you. I knew it wasn't too complicated.
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It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points."
Last edited by manlisten on Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| LKA wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
The syllogism is easy. You're complicating things for no reason.
1. Lonzo, players are members of the NBA players association.
2. They collectively bargained (and I gave you the specific article that addresses this) this issue.
What you're saying is:
1. even though we have an agreement, and a tatoo that is of a commerical purpose is covered, we're just going to disregard that.
2. Lonzo will make $ or his dad's company will gain free advertisement as a result.
3. NBA/teams have specific and exclusive rights to advertise on the jersey, and now you're pissing on that deal too.
I mean it's really simple. |
Where did I say to disregard the CBA? Your argument is basically it's a rule so it has to be followed. I'm not contesting that. I'm simply saying the rule doesn't make sense in context of other things that are allowed. You can have a Nike jersey and wear adidas shoes but you can't have an adidas tattoo. The rule states you can't even have a Nike tattoo so it's not about competing brands. None of the reasons for why you can't have a corporate tattoo add up when looking at the full picture. It's inconsistent. I don't think what I'm saying is difficult to comprehend. |
I agree the rule is stupid
Lonzo can wear BBB shoes but can’t have a little BBB tattoo on the back of his arm , which I didn’t even know he had until this news broke lol |
I don't think they really thought this through (or maybe the plan is to only apply it subjectively). With Smith it makes sense because he clearly sold a part of his body to display a logo with zero connection to him. With Ball there's little difference than a player tattooing an acronym of his name or high school rap group. Anything trademarked is a violation, which ironically should even mean players with Nike checks (I've also seen this).
Last edited by greenfrog on Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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epak
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | | Ball starts tonight. Rondo, Ingram and Lebron (and maybe Hart and KCP) all resting. |
Hm.
Lonzo
Svi
Hart or KCP or Lance
Kuz
McGee
Interesting lineup. Run run run! |
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greenfrog
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Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| daytripper wrote: | | defense wrote: | | The whole censoring for corporations thing is outta hand imo. As long as the tattoos don't incite violence or harm anyone, they should be allowed to do what they want to their bodies. That's the kind of world we live in. Greed knows no bounds. |
It is what it is...unfortunately these corporations run the NBA (and the world tbh).
Not to mention the players (owners, coaches, etc) wouldn't be pulling down these astronomical paydays if it weren't for these big corporations funding the NBA through tv contracts, advertising, stadium/jersey naming rights, etc. |
No one is losing money over a friggin tattoo. |
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LakerSD
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Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 23790
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | Ball starts tonight. Rondo, Ingram and Lebron (and maybe Hart and KCP) all resting. |
Hm.
Lonzo
Svi
Hart or KCP or Lance
Kuz
McGee
Interesting lineup. Run run run! |
2018-19 Lakers: Cardio Focused. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | Ball starts tonight. Rondo, Ingram and Lebron (and maybe Hart and KCP) all resting. |
Hm.
Lonzo
Svi
Hart or KCP or Lance
Kuz
McGee
Interesting lineup. Run run run! |
The starting lineup tonight is:
Lonzo
Stephenson
Kuz
Beasley
McGee
Hart (hamstring), KCP (tendinitis), and Caruso (*shrug*) are out. All per Trudell.
I just want to see Ball and Kuz with the G-League crew most of the night. Let's see if Lonzo can get Svi and Bonga going.
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daytripper
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Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 1194
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | daytripper wrote: | | defense wrote: | | The whole censoring for corporations thing is outta hand imo. As long as the tattoos don't incite violence or harm anyone, they should be allowed to do what they want to their bodies. That's the kind of world we live in. Greed knows no bounds. |
It is what it is...unfortunately these corporations run the NBA (and the world tbh).
Not to mention the players (owners, coaches, etc) wouldn't be pulling down these astronomical paydays if it weren't for these big corporations funding the NBA through tv contracts, advertising, stadium/jersey naming rights, etc. |
No one is losing money over a friggin tattoo. |
Agreed but they don't want any of their power to be wrestled away either. I'm sure in their minds it starts with a small tat and next thing some enterprising player is going to rent out his entire body for advertising. I'm certainly no fan of big corporation but they are nipping it in the bud now..
As for the shoes it's mainly UA, Nike, and Adidas who also wield a huge influence over basketball. As Lavar already found out it's nearly impossible for a small upstart to put a dent in the market share of these huge companies. |
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BigGameHames
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Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | epak wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | Ball starts tonight. Rondo, Ingram and Lebron (and maybe Hart and KCP) all resting. |
Hm.
Lonzo
Svi
Hart or KCP or Lance
Kuz
McGee
Interesting lineup. Run run run! |
The starting lineup tonight is:
Lonzo
Stephenson
Kuz
Beasley
McGee
Hart (hamstring), KCP (tendinitis), and Caruso (*shrug*) are out. All per Trudell.
I just want to see Ball and Kuz with the G-League crew most of the night. Let's see if Lonzo can get Svi and Bonga going. |
I would worry more about him getting himself going. Him getting some confident in his shot is more important than Svi or Bonga. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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Posts: 31763
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | He says and does a lot of really stupid stuff but developing a shoe company isn’t one of them. It could benefit a lot of people if this becomes a more normal thing and it’s annoying how much hate he receives for challenging the status quo in this way. |
I don't think anyone hates Lavar Balltic for challenging the status quo. That is not the issue. He is not some sort of misunderstood rebel. I'm not going to side track this thread by going further. |
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BigGameHames
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Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | He says and does a lot of really stupid stuff but developing a shoe company isn’t one of them. It could benefit a lot of people if this becomes a more normal thing and it’s annoying how much hate he receives for challenging the status quo in this way. |
I don't think anyone hates Lavar Balltic for challenging the status quo. That is not the issue. He is not some sort of misunderstood rebel. I'm not going to side track this thread by going further. |
He is though. A lot of it is his own doing but he is widely misunderstood IMO. |
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defense
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Just what I want to see, Lonzo have to play with two brain dead chuckers in Lance and Beasley. Should be an interesting game |
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dont_be_a_wuss
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Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Posts: 21506
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | Don’t let your hatred for LaVar skew your ability to see the big picture behind what he is attempting to do. |
We really don't need to get sidetracked with another discussion about Lavar Balltic. If you think he is accomplishing something valuable in the big picture, that's great. Maybe you will be proven right. |
He says and does a lot of really stupid stuff but developing a shoe company isn’t one of them. It could benefit a lot of people if this becomes a more normal thing and it’s annoying how much hate he receives for challenging the status quo in this way. |
Developing a shoe company? He just reskinned some sketchers and added $400 to the price tag. |
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | Don’t let your hatred for LaVar skew your ability to see the big picture behind what he is attempting to do. |
We really don't need to get sidetracked with another discussion about Lavar Balltic. If you think he is accomplishing something valuable in the big picture, that's great. Maybe you will be proven right. |
He says and does a lot of really stupid stuff but developing a shoe company isn’t one of them. It could benefit a lot of people if this becomes a more normal thing and it’s annoying how much hate he receives for challenging the status quo in this way. |
Developing a shoe company? He just reskinned some sketchers and added $400 to the price tag. |
Sketchers are the new Jordan’s. |
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LongBeachPoly
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Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16163
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | It's his own personal brand and life story. The intent of the rule seems to widely miss the mark to me. |
It is not his personal brand. It is not his life story. It is the trademark of a company that sells athletic gear. You know all that money that the players make? A significant portion, probably a majority, does not come from ticket sales. It comes from companies that pay for TV rights, marketing rights, apparel rights, and all of that sort of stuff. The money goes into a big pool called BRI, and the players collectively get their cut. Without all of that money, NBA players would be getting paid more like MLS players.
So if a player decides to tattoo someone's trademark on his body in a visible spot, he is going to cover it up. He isn't just messing with the league office and the owners. He is messing with every other player in the league. This is why the union and the other players aren't going to come riding to his defense. You don't mess with the source of the money because you want to promote your dad's silly shoe company. |
Wait, the league has a money source off players' skin and arms? The tattoo is not hindering or altering the look of the jersey in any way worse than the differing brand on the shoes. |
Doesn't matter. It's in the CBA:
| Quote: |
Other than as may be incorporated into his Uniform and the manufacturer’s identification incorporated into his Sneakers, a player may not, during any NBA game, display any commercial, promotional, or charitable name, mark, logo or other identification, including but not limited to on his body, in his hair, or otherwise.
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Then the league office should be very busy going through every player's personal body art. I guarantee there are many violations.
Isn't a Wu Tang tattoo a promotional display? I know I've seen a player with that one. |
It does say the player may not
Doesn't say that the league has to ban everything under that rule. It just gives the league the right to enforce the rule should they choose. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | No one is losing money over a friggin tattoo. |
Yet. This is why they have a zero tolerance policy, |
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LongBeachPoly
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Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16163
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| manlisten wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
The syllogism is easy. You're complicating things for no reason.
1. Lonzo, players are members of the NBA players association.
2. They collectively bargained (and I gave you the specific article that addresses this) this issue.
What you're saying is:
1. even though we have an agreement, and a tatoo that is of a commerical purpose is covered, we're just going to disregard that.
2. Lonzo will make $ or his dad's company will gain free advertisement as a result.
3. NBA/teams have specific and exclusive rights to advertise on the jersey, and now you're pissing on that deal too.
I mean it's really simple. |
Where did I say to disregard the CBA? Your argument is basically it's a rule so it has to be followed. I'm not contesting that. I'm simply saying the rule doesn't make sense in context of other things that are allowed. You can have a Nike jersey and wear adidas shoes but you can't have an adidas tattoo. The rule states you can't even have a Nike tattoo so it's not about competing brands. None of the reasons for why you can't have a corporate tattoo add up when looking at the full picture. It's inconsistent. I don't think what I'm saying is difficult to comprehend. |
It's not a rule and it doesn't have to be consistent. It's a CBA and that's what they bargained for.
The NBA probably wants everyone to wear the same shoes if they can, but that's not going to happen. Players get alot of endorsement money from shoes. Shoes helps the NBA grow, look at Jordan's deal with Nike.
The NBA wanted to draw a line on other body parts and they were able to win on that front. That's all it is.
It's not to make sense. It's just negotiations and which side was able to win on what points.
You're looking at it as a rule like the law where it has to make some kind of sense.
You have to look at it as negotiations between 2 parties and that's what they were able to come up with. If the players really want to be able to have the freedom to have whatever tattoos they want on their bodies, they can push for that in the next CBA. Of course, they'll have to give back something of value to the NBA.
They'll have to choose whether it's worth it or not. Probably not since it only affects a few players. The rest don't really care to fight for that. |
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LongBeachPoly
Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16163
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | daytripper wrote: | | defense wrote: | | The whole censoring for corporations thing is outta hand imo. As long as the tattoos don't incite violence or harm anyone, they should be allowed to do what they want to their bodies. That's the kind of world we live in. Greed knows no bounds. |
It is what it is...unfortunately these corporations run the NBA (and the world tbh).
Not to mention the players (owners, coaches, etc) wouldn't be pulling down these astronomical paydays if it weren't for these big corporations funding the NBA through tv contracts, advertising, stadium/jersey naming rights, etc. |
No one is losing money over a friggin tattoo. |
They would be losing their rights under their contract with the NBA. Their contracts with the NBA (i.e. Nike) says that the NBA promises not to allow players to wear tattoos of competing companies (BBB, Addidas) for the duration of the current CBA.
Same thing with wish and the Lakers jerseys. I don't know who their competitors are but I bet they wouldn't like to see a tattoo of their competitor right next to their wish logo. |
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