OFFICIAL LONZO BALL THREAD
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epak
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:04 am    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
epak wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
epak wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:
Couldn’t help but notice Zo’s lack of excitement for the win. He was initially happy, but didn’t participate with any of his teammates in the celebration. Maybe he didn’t want to get caught by Tyson’s or Lance’s haymakers? 😆


Huh? He was the last guy to give Tyson a high five.
Go watch it again man.


I thought he was visibly frustrated at the end of the game yesterday and wasn’t as excited as other guys about the win. It’s a bad look. With that said, it’s understandable as he has to watch his team almost lose because he’s being inexplicably benched instead of playing and winning comfortably. He’s a young guy and is showing it. He’d be smart to stop sulking so much though. He’s getting unfairly treated, but this is pro sports, deal with it.


I was addressing the celebration at the end. I know it wasn't OP's intention, but it made it seem like Lonzo didnt stick around for the celebration. Just pointing out that he was there, and was the last guy to high hive Tyson after the bear hug from Lebron. That being said, Lonzo's celebrations aren't demonstrative in the first place.

Re: his minutes. I'd like him to play more. But I'm OK with him sitting the end of games if the team wins. Most important for the team early as they try to gel are getting wins, IMO.


Do you think they are winning because he isn’t playing late or despite the fact he isn’t playing late? I think it’s the latter especially in the Atlanta and Minny games.


I think the latter as well. Especially when he was playing engaged like the last 2 games. However, those are things we can't prove. We can guesstimate, but who knows what would have happen since there are so many variables to a game.

In the end, I'm happy with wins.
Now, if Lonzo is getting lows 20 to mid 20 mpg around all star break, I'd be upset
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:09 am    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
laker4life wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
epak wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:
Couldn’t help but notice Zo’s lack of excitement for the win. He was initially happy, but didn’t participate with any of his teammates in the celebration. Maybe he didn’t want to get caught by Tyson’s or Lance’s haymakers? 😆


Huh? He was the last guy to give Tyson a high five.
Go watch it again man.


I thought he was visibly frustrated at the end of the game yesterday and wasn’t as excited as other guys about the win. It’s a bad look. With that said, it’s understandable as he has to watch his team almost lose because he’s being inexplicably benched instead of playing and winning comfortably. He’s a young guy and is showing it. He’d be smart to stop sulking so much though. He’s getting unfairly treated, but this is pro sports, deal with it.


He was taken out because of his defense. Trae Young was effective against him.

Also he was not a 3 point threat.

He has not had a break out game yet this year.


He was 2-2 from 3 and I disagree about the Trae Young part. Would love to see his numbers vs Lonzo compared to other players last night.


it seems like it would be difficult to get those accurate numbers in a switching defense....a decent amount of moves take place during a switch.
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deal
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:13 am    Post subject:

gumby wrote:
Lonzo isn’t a traditional pg, so that is what is fustrating.

He has the ability to do so much more than he does. Such untapped potential.

Was hoping to see more of that this year but so far he gets too passive.

Maybe soon he’ll realize and snap out of it.

Bye.



He's full of "maybe's". But the reason the Lakers should put up
with those is the obvious potential but his young age.

Obviously, I'm as anxious as the next guy for him to wake the
hell up but that age thing makes me slow myself down when talking
about him. I guess it drives me crazy that guys with much less seem
to do so much more from an effort POV; buuuut, he's basically still a kid.
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BigGameHames
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:15 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
laker4life wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
epak wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:
Couldn’t help but notice Zo’s lack of excitement for the win. He was initially happy, but didn’t participate with any of his teammates in the celebration. Maybe he didn’t want to get caught by Tyson’s or Lance’s haymakers? 😆


Huh? He was the last guy to give Tyson a high five.
Go watch it again man.


I thought he was visibly frustrated at the end of the game yesterday and wasn’t as excited as other guys about the win. It’s a bad look. With that said, it’s understandable as he has to watch his team almost lose because he’s being inexplicably benched instead of playing and winning comfortably. He’s a young guy and is showing it. He’d be smart to stop sulking so much though. He’s getting unfairly treated, but this is pro sports, deal with it.


He was taken out because of his defense. Trae Young was effective against him.

Also he was not a 3 point threat.

He has not had a break out game yet this year.


He was 2-2 from 3 and I disagree about the Trae Young part. Would love to see his numbers vs Lonzo compared to other players last night.


it seems like it would be difficult to get those accurate numbers in a switching defense....a decent amount of moves take place during a switch.


True but the Hawks were running a high 1-5 ball screen(which the Lakers don’t switch) for most of the possessions.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:25 am    Post subject:

laker4life wrote:
He was taken out because of his defense. Trae Young was effective against him.

Also he was not a 3 point threat.

He has not had a break out game yet this year.


He wasn't a 3-point threat? He's shooting 36.2% from 3 on 4.5 attempts per game and was 2-3 last night.

Also, Trae Young wasn't effective against him. The Lakers are in a drop coverage here. Lonzo's job is to fight over the screen and apply back pressure. He does that. JaVale's job is to contain (get in front of) the ball-handler because the defensive guard is behind the ball-handler BY DESIGN. JaVale doesn't do that and it's an easy shot at the rim. Happened on another play as well.

People think plays like this mean that Lonzo got scored on but that's not how it works.


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epak
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:28 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
laker4life wrote:
He was taken out because of his defense. Trae Young was effective against him.

Also he was not a 3 point threat.

He has not had a break out game yet this year.


He wasn't a 3-point threat? He's shooting 36.2% from 3 on 4.5 attempts per game and was 2-3 last night.

Also, Trae Young wasn't effective against him. The Lakers are in a drop coverage here. Lonzo's job is to fight over the screen and apply back pressure. He does that. JaVale's job is to contain (get in front of) the ball-handler because the defensive guard is behind the ball-handler BY DESIGN. JaVale doesn't do that and it's an easy shot at the rim. Happened on another play as well.

People think plays like this mean that Lonzo got scored on but that's not how it works.





Knowledge is power.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:34 am    Post subject:

epak wrote:
Knowledge is power.


https://youtu.be/VquE8poYfDk
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:34 am    Post subject:

Lonzo was pulled for defensive purposes, but it wasn't because of his defense on Trae Young. The Lakers wanted to blitz the pick & roll on Trae, which they rarely do. If you watched the pre-game interview, Luke told me that he thinks Chandler is really good at both drop coverage and showing at the level of the screen, which the Lakers call "shocking the ball."

So not only does Lonzo go out, but JaVale does too in favor of Chandler and they start blitzing. When you blitz, the other 3 guys are going to get cross-matched because they have to defend 4. A lot of times that means a guard on a big. Luke went to Hart because of his physicality (he said this in the post-game press conference) because Hart was gonna be one of those 3 guys.
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epak
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:37 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Lonzo was pulled for defensive purposes, but it wasn't because of his defense on Trae Young. The Lakers wanted to blitz the pick & roll on Trae, which they rarely do. If you watched the pre-game interview, Luke told me that he thinks Chandler is really good at both drop coverage and showing at the level of the screen, which the Lakers call "shocking the ball."

So not only does Lonzo go out, but JaVale does too in favor of Chandler and they start blitzing. When you blitz, the other 3 guys are going to get cross-matched because they have to defend 4. A lot of times that means a guard on a big. Luke went to Hart because of his physicality (he said this in the post-game press conference) because Hart was gonna be one of those 3 guys.


https://youtu.be/VquE8poYfDk
(Just came across this video today, randomly. Forgot where, but I think it fits as a response)

Good stuff. It's these little tidbits that we fans miss out on. Thanks as always.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:40 am    Post subject:

deal wrote:
gumby wrote:
Lonzo isn’t a traditional pg, so that is what is fustrating.

He has the ability to do so much more than he does. Such untapped potential.

Was hoping to see more of that this year but so far he gets too passive.

Maybe soon he’ll realize and snap out of it.

Bye.


He's full of "maybe's". But the reason the Lakers should put up
with those is the obvious potential but his young age.

Obviously, I'm as anxious as the next guy for him to wake the
hell up but that age thing makes me slow myself down when talking
about him. I guess it drives me crazy that guys with much less seem
to do so much more from an effort POV; buuuut, he's basically still a kid.


When we talk about Ball, we are addressing two distinct questions that sometimes get confused. How is he doing right now? And what kind of player do we think he will become down the line? The age issue is relevant to the first question, because we generally cut young players some slack. The age issue is also relevant to the second question, but in a different way. We are trying to guess what the sapling will look like when it becomes a tree (and how long it will take to get there).

Right now, Ball is doing okay, but not great. He has improved his shooting by a notch. He still isn't a good shooter, but he is not as much of a negative on the offensive end as he was last year. His passing comes and goes, but this appears to be an issue of him figuring out how to play with Lebron, and also an issue of our evolving offensive system. His defense is still decent, but my eyeball-based impression is that he has not been as impactful as last year. Overall, he has addressed the most glaring weakness in his game, but really hasn't made a big second-year jump yet.

The question of what he will become in the future is hard to answer. As time goes by, the Jason Kidd analogy looks less and less likely. Ball does not have an alpha mindset, and he doesn't seem to be moving in that direction. I really don't have a strong sense of where Ball is going to end up.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:03 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Right now, Ball is doing okay, but not great. He has improved his shooting by a notch. He still isn't a good shooter, but he is not as much of a negative on the offensive end as he was last year. His passing comes and goes, but this appears to be an issue of him figuring out how to play with Lebron, and also an issue of our evolving offensive system. His defense is still decent, but my eyeball-based impression is that he has not been as impactful as last year. Overall, he has addressed the most glaring weakness in his game, but really hasn't made a big second-year jump yet.

The question of what he will become in the future is hard to answer. As time goes by, the Jason Kidd analogy looks less and less likely. Ball does not have an alpha mindset, and he doesn't seem to be moving in that direction. I really don't have a strong sense of where Ball is going to end up.


Good post.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:09 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Lonzo was pulled for defensive purposes, but it wasn't because of his defense on Trae Young. The Lakers wanted to blitz the pick & roll on Trae, which they rarely do. If you watched the pre-game interview, Luke told me that he thinks Chandler is really good at both drop coverage and showing at the level of the screen, which the Lakers call "shocking the ball."

So not only does Lonzo go out, but JaVale does too in favor of Chandler and they start blitzing. When you blitz, the other 3 guys are going to get cross-matched because they have to defend 4. A lot of times that means a guard on a big. Luke went to Hart because of his physicality (he said this in the post-game press conference) because Hart was gonna be one of those 3 guys.


Thanks for this.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:10 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Right now, Ball is doing okay, but not great. He has improved his shooting by a notch. He still isn't a good shooter, but he is not as much of a negative on the offensive end as he was last year. His passing comes and goes, but this appears to be an issue of him figuring out how to play with Lebron, and also an issue of our evolving offensive system. His defense is still decent, but my eyeball-based impression is that he has not been as impactful as last year. Overall, he has addressed the most glaring weakness in his game, but really hasn't made a big second-year jump yet.

The question of what he will become in the future is hard to answer. As time goes by, the Jason Kidd analogy looks less and less likely. Ball does not have an alpha mindset, and he doesn't seem to be moving in that direction. I really don't have a strong sense of where Ball is going to end up.


Good post.


Agreed. My observation is he becomes tentative with his play sometimes not because of his skills but more of he doesn't want to be the center of attention. He shies away from it and I wonder why? I think this all stems from Lavar and how he placed so much pressure and spotlight on Zo.

I think he's a really shy person in public.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:19 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Lonzo was pulled for defensive purposes, but it wasn't because of his defense on Trae Young. The Lakers wanted to blitz the pick & roll on Trae, which they rarely do. If you watched the pre-game interview, Luke told me that he thinks Chandler is really good at both drop coverage and showing at the level of the screen, which the Lakers call "shocking the ball."

So not only does Lonzo go out, but JaVale does too in favor of Chandler and they start blitzing. When you blitz, the other 3 guys are going to get cross-matched because they have to defend 4. A lot of times that means a guard on a big. Luke went to Hart because of his physicality (he said this in the post-game press conference) because Hart was gonna be one of those 3 guys.

Always appreciate the insight, GT
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:26 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:

When we talk about Ball, we are addressing two distinct questions that sometimes get confused. How is he doing right now? And what kind of player do we think he will become down the line? The age issue is relevant to the first question, because we generally cut young players some slack. The age issue is also relevant to the second question, but in a different way. We are trying to guess what the sapling will look like when it becomes a tree (and how long it will take to get there).

Right now, Ball is doing okay, but not great. He has improved his shooting by a notch. He still isn't a good shooter, but he is not as much of a negative on the offensive end as he was last year. His passing comes and goes, but this appears to be an issue of him figuring out how to play with Lebron, and also an issue of our evolving offensive system. His defense is still decent, but my eyeball-based impression is that he has not been as impactful as last year. Overall, he has addressed the most glaring weakness in his game, but really hasn't made a big second-year jump yet.

The question of what he will become in the future is hard to answer. As time goes by, the Jason Kidd analogy looks less and less likely. Ball does not have an alpha mindset, and he doesn't seem to be moving in that direction. I really don't have a strong sense of where Ball is going to end up.


Well said. Perhaps not a JKidd-type leader, but a Lamar Odom-style contributor for a championship team maybe?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:18 pm    Post subject:

LandsbergerRules wrote:
Well said. Perhaps not a JKidd-type leader, but a Lamar Odom-style contributor for a championship team maybe?


Sure, I could see that. I could also see him developing into a non-alpha leader type (think, say, Chauncey Billups).
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:21 pm    Post subject:

I don't expect a jump and I didn't think it was fair to expect a jump this season, considering Lonzo's injuries and personal issues.

Injuries deter basketball improvement, period. It's also likely why we're not seeing the recovery defense of last season (though I do think McGee has something to do with that). All he could do was get shots up, and he did. That's improved. All he could do was strength train, and he did. That improved. Even in the last game, he played like a facilitating 2, getting to the paint more frequently than I thought he would.

Once things settle down and he's healthy, then I'd expect a jump.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:48 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
I don't expect a jump and I didn't think it was fair to expect a jump this season, considering Lonzo's injuries and personal issues.

Injuries deter basketball improvement, period. It's also likely why we're not seeing the recovery defense of last season (though I do think McGee has something to do with that). All he could do was get shots up, and he did. That's improved. All he could do was strength train, and he did. That improved. Even in the last game, he played like a facilitating 2, getting to the paint more frequently than I thought he would.

Once things settle down and he's healthy, then I'd expect a jump.


I agree, with the caveat that injuries and personal issues are part of life for a young basketball player (and old players, too). I'm certainly not negative about Ball's progress so far. We all hoped for more improvement faster, but as you say, that may not be fair.

His shooting numbers are better. In fact, if he sustains those numbers this year, he'll be a little over league average from three, a little under league average on twos, and getting closer to league average on free throws. He is still a shade under the league average in TS%, but he has raised his TS% by .086, which is excellent. I saw only the first half of last night's game, but I liked what I saw from him when it came to ball distribution. Assist numbers don't impress me as much as intelligent ball distribution.

I would say that the next steps in his progression are finishing more consistently at the rim and starting to draw more FTs. If he can make progress on those steps this year, then we may look back on the season and say that he did, in fact, make a leap.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:41 pm    Post subject:

Great analysis bros but something tells me it’s going to click for Lonzo down the line and he will be a top 3 impact player in the league.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:28 pm    Post subject:

Lakers4Life33 wrote:
Great analysis bros but something tells me it’s going to click for Lonzo down the line and he will be a top 3 impact player in the league.
. Expectations thru the roof
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:51 pm    Post subject:

Image we would've landed Fultz instead of Zo? LG would be unbearable with the way Fultz has been playing since he got to the NBA
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:59 pm    Post subject:

ramirezmu8 wrote:
Image we would've landed Fultz instead of Zo? LG would be unbearable with the way Fultz has been playing since he got to the NBA


Man, that would've been a disaster. Fultz is a mess.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:05 pm    Post subject:

Can't give up on Ball.

Orlando gave up on JJ what did he become? Not a star but a good player.
Look at LaVine, Oladipo, and look at Harden.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:06 pm    Post subject:

LandsbergerRules wrote:
ramirezmu8 wrote:
Image we would've landed Fultz instead of Zo? LG would be unbearable with the way Fultz has been playing since he got to the NBA


Man, that would've been a disaster. Fultz is a mess.



What bothers me the most is his mindset. He doesn’t seem to have the leader/take no prisoners attitude which would drive his improvement... I think his dad was too overbearing and hates to expose himself for failure.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:06 pm    Post subject:

LandsbergerRules wrote:
ramirezmu8 wrote:
Image we would've landed Fultz instead of Zo? LG would be unbearable with the way Fultz has been playing since he got to the NBA


Man, that would've been a disaster. Fultz is a mess.


I'm sure you saw his free throw tonight. Just awful. I feel for the kid.
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