OFFICIAL LONZO BALL THREAD
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LandsbergerRules
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:12 pm    Post subject:

ramirezmu8 wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
ramirezmu8 wrote:
Image we would've landed Fultz instead of Zo? LG would be unbearable with the way Fultz has been playing since he got to the NBA


Man, that would've been a disaster. Fultz is a mess.


I'm sure you saw his free throw tonight. Just awful. I feel for the kid.


Do you mean this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TC9wUtU20g
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:16 pm    Post subject:

LandsbergerRules wrote:
ramirezmu8 wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
ramirezmu8 wrote:
Image we would've landed Fultz instead of Zo? LG would be unbearable with the way Fultz has been playing since he got to the NBA


Man, that would've been a disaster. Fultz is a mess.


I'm sure you saw his free throw tonight. Just awful. I feel for the kid.


Do you mean this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TC9wUtU20g


Didn’t the 76ers mess with his shooting motion?


KL at the end.
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tox
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:43 pm    Post subject:

LandsbergerRules wrote:
ramirezmu8 wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
ramirezmu8 wrote:
Image we would've landed Fultz instead of Zo? LG would be unbearable with the way Fultz has been playing since he got to the NBA


Man, that would've been a disaster. Fultz is a mess.


I'm sure you saw his free throw tonight. Just awful. I feel for the kid.


Do you mean this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TC9wUtU20g

Man I feel so bad for him after that, I'm actually rooting for him. Poor kid.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:11 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
ramirezmu8 wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
ramirezmu8 wrote:
Image we would've landed Fultz instead of Zo? LG would be unbearable with the way Fultz has been playing since he got to the NBA


Man, that would've been a disaster. Fultz is a mess.


I'm sure you saw his free throw tonight. Just awful. I feel for the kid.


Do you mean this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TC9wUtU20g

Man I feel so bad for him after that, I'm actually rooting for him. Poor kid.

Save that for Lonzo. It's the equivalent of Lonzo shooting airballs.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:39 pm    Post subject:

Guess I’m in the minority, but I’m happy with lonzos progress. My hopes for him this season was 40/35/60 and he’s at 41/36/61 having improved by 5/5/15 in those categories. He is playing less minutes, but if you adjust per 36 his numbers are pretty much the same down the line in all other categories except blocks.

The goals were for him to improve his shooting and stay healthy right? He has played in every game and his shot looks better to me. To me he’s the only one if the young core that’s improved from last year. Ingram doesnt look any better, Kuzma looks overall about the same, Hart is still at his same level of awesomeness.

I want him to play 65+ games and see some playoff action and have an improved season offensively, I see all of those things happening.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:15 am    Post subject:

Fortysixn2 wrote:
Guess I’m in the minority, but I’m happy with lonzos progress. My hopes for him this season was 40/35/60 and he’s at 41/36/61 having improved by 5/5/15 in those categories. He is playing less minutes, but if you adjust per 36 his numbers are pretty much the same down the line in all other categories except blocks.

The goals were for him to improve his shooting and stay healthy right? He has played in every game and his shot looks better to me. To me he’s the only one if the young core that’s improved from last year. Ingram doesnt look any better, Kuzma looks overall about the same, Hart is still at his same level of awesomeness.

I want him to play 65+ games and see some playoff action and have an improved season offensively, I see all of those things happening.


I share your opinion on Lonzo. Also people are sometimes not aware that he just turn 21. Still plenty of time to improve in almost everything.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:17 am    Post subject:

my problem with lonzo is that he doesnt initiate the offense like the other good pgs do in the league. Once in half court he passes the ball away like he dont want anything to do with offense in the first place and settle being a catch and shoot player. that hawks game was a decent play for him but i dont like it until we see lonzo do that level of play continuously and not occasionally. I just dont see that hunger in him that makes me think hes not mad that hes not finishing the games late in 4th. I do prefer fox or trae over lonzo who are more confident in wat they can do so are not afraid to play and take over
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lakersfan8
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:52 am    Post subject:

Lonzo is such a high cerebral player. I want to believe his lack of scoring desire is because there are better scorers on the team than he’s scared of taking over
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DangeRuss
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:10 am    Post subject:

The thing with Lonzo is adjusting to playing with lebron is really taking a toll on his progression, rather than being aggressive, controlling the offense and being a floor general like he looked at times last season, this season he’ll bring it past half court and immediately pass it to James only for James to waive him off to a corner and stand there while lebron ISOs.
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ibij
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:45 am    Post subject:

Lebron is making young cores suffer....
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:05 am    Post subject:

ibij wrote:
Lebron is making young cores suffer....


I think too. He is really ball dominant in half court offense. Like to take hard shots. Its true that he is passing the ball but also like to take the 1on1 too much. Our young players can just watch him playing. Its the same with Ball. Ball should be running pnr all the time but actually he doesn't have opportunity to do it. One thing I would really like to see is Ball-James pick n roll offense. It can be deadly combination. I maybe see it once or twice.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:49 am    Post subject:

blackmamba08 wrote:
ibij wrote:
Lebron is making young cores suffer....


I think too. He is really ball dominant in half court offense. Like to take hard shots. Its true that he is passing the ball but also like to take the 1on1 too much. Our young players can just watch him playing. Its the same with Ball. Ball should be running pnr all the time but actually he doesn't have opportunity to do it. One thing I would really like to see is Ball-James pick n roll offense. It can be deadly combination. I maybe see it once or twice.


Lonzo in the PnR would be a nightmare to watch, no getting around that.
Our 4th quarter offence has been hard to watch no doubt but that's not completely on LbJ.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:49 am    Post subject:

blackmamba08 wrote:
ibij wrote:
Lebron is making young cores suffer....


I think too. He is really ball dominant in half court offense. Like to take hard shots. Its true that he is passing the ball but also like to take the 1on1 too much. Our young players can just watch him playing. Its the same with Ball. Ball should be running pnr all the time but actually he doesn't have opportunity to do it. One thing I would really like to see is Ball-James pick n roll offense. It can be deadly combination. I maybe see it once or twice.


Lonzo in the PnR would be a nightmare to watch, no getting around that.
Our 4th quarter offence has been hard to watch no doubt but that's not completely on LbJ.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:54 am    Post subject:

PauPau wrote:
blackmamba08 wrote:
ibij wrote:
Lebron is making young cores suffer....


I think too. He is really ball dominant in half court offense. Like to take hard shots. Its true that he is passing the ball but also like to take the 1on1 too much. Our young players can just watch him playing. Its the same with Ball. Ball should be running pnr all the time but actually he doesn't have opportunity to do it. One thing I would really like to see is Ball-James pick n roll offense. It can be deadly combination. I maybe see it once or twice.


Lonzo in the PnR would be a nightmare to watch, no getting around that.
Our 4th quarter offence has been hard to watch no doubt but that's not completely on LbJ.


Lonzo's PnR game leaves much to be desired b/c he's not a threat to score off the PnR.

I don't think LBJ wants the offense to be LBJ-centric but we dont' have consistent lead scorers that can be trusted to spearhead the offense.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:21 am    Post subject:

The biggest problem is his lack of aggressiveness. He is essentially limited to a a "3 and D" PG, obviously lower than avg 3, more like a streaky shooter.
What's glaring is his lack of ability to penetrate the defense. He is at least an above avg athlete and with him bulking up, it's frustrating that he does not drive at all and still remains to be a poor finisher.
Yes, he is still young and he can still turn it around, but does not look good.
I suppose if he was the 30th pick, we wouldn't be talking about it as much.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:27 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
PauPau wrote:
blackmamba08 wrote:
ibij wrote:
Lebron is making young cores suffer....


I think too. He is really ball dominant in half court offense. Like to take hard shots. Its true that he is passing the ball but also like to take the 1on1 too much. Our young players can just watch him playing. Its the same with Ball. Ball should be running pnr all the time but actually he doesn't have opportunity to do it. One thing I would really like to see is Ball-James pick n roll offense. It can be deadly combination. I maybe see it once or twice.


Lonzo in the PnR would be a nightmare to watch, no getting around that.
Our 4th quarter offence has been hard to watch no doubt but that's not completely on LbJ.


Lonzo's PnR game leaves much to be desired b/c he's not a threat to score off the PnR.

I don't think LBJ wants the offense to be LBJ-centric but we dont' have consistent lead scorers that can be trusted to spearhead the offense.


I want to see more LBJ/Zo pick and roll. Force Lonzo to either take a layup or just make the right play.I know it's not his game right now but I think he can do it and he just needs reps. You have to force the action with this kid. Just a couple times a game to mix it up.

I think Lonzo can be our perimeter Draymond Green type of utility player. I kind of look at BI and Lonzo like they are similar in that regard.

Also what I like about Lonzo/LBJ pick and pop is it lets Lonzo take a shot in rhythm.

For the record, Lebron off ball is not all that. He has to and I think will be better.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:18 am    Post subject:

blackmamba08 wrote:
Also people are sometimes not aware that he just turn 21.


Why would you think that? His age is offered up as an excuse about every other post. Seriously, we get it. Some guys arrive in the NBA ready to go -- Lebron, Tatum, Durant, and others. Some guys stay in college for a few years and arrive ready -- Kuzma and Hart for example. Other guys just aren't ready, and Ball was one of them. He was actually more ready than Fultz and Fox, in that he could at least be effective on defense. That's not saying much, though.

Few people expect Ball to be a finished product right now. But that that excuse goes only so far. He's a professional athlete wearing the purple and gold. The Lakers are not a daycare. Ball needs to be showing progress, or else the NBA and the Lakers are not going to wait around for him. If he takes five years to develop, then he'll be a quality player for the 2024 Charlotte Bobcats.
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JerryMagicKobe
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:26 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
He was actually more ready than Fultz and Fox, in that he could at least be effective on defense. That's not saying much, though.
Good defense at the PG position and the ability to play off the ball next to LeBron while rebounding and pushing pace with improved shooting is noteworthy, and certainly more than 'not saying much'.

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Few people expect Ball to be a finished product right now. But that that excuse goes only so far. He's a professional athlete wearing the purple and gold. The Lakers are not a daycare.
They are and have been the NBA version of a day care for quite a few years. When you rebuild through the draft, player development becomes paramount. Their young core needs to be developed by their young coaching staff under the management of their inexperienced GM and rookie P of BBO. Saying that Ball is not a finished product is more explanation than excuse, no?

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Ball needs to be showing progress, or else the NBA and the Lakers are not going to wait around for him. If he takes five years to develop, then he'll be a quality player for the 2024 Charlotte Bobcats.
I like the raw skills and the improvement in shooting. The team has to come together as a whole, and the more familiar and cohesive the team becomes, the more that plays to Lonzo's strengths.

Last edited by JerryMagicKobe on Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:27 am    Post subject:

24Legend007 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
PauPau wrote:
blackmamba08 wrote:
ibij wrote:
Lebron is making young cores suffer....


I think too. He is really ball dominant in half court offense. Like to take hard shots. Its true that he is passing the ball but also like to take the 1on1 too much. Our young players can just watch him playing. Its the same with Ball. Ball should be running pnr all the time but actually he doesn't have opportunity to do it. One thing I would really like to see is Ball-James pick n roll offense. It can be deadly combination. I maybe see it once or twice.


Lonzo in the PnR would be a nightmare to watch, no getting around that.
Our 4th quarter offence has been hard to watch no doubt but that's not completely on LbJ.


Lonzo's PnR game leaves much to be desired b/c he's not a threat to score off the PnR.

I don't think LBJ wants the offense to be LBJ-centric but we dont' have consistent lead scorers that can be trusted to spearhead the offense.


I want to see more LBJ/Zo pick and roll. Force Lonzo to either take a layup or just make the right play.I know it's not his game right now but I think he can do it and he just needs reps. You have to force the action with this kid. Just a couple times a game to mix it up.

I think Lonzo can be our perimeter Draymond Green type of utility player. I kind of look at BI and Lonzo like they are similar in that regard.

Also what I like about Lonzo/LBJ pick and pop is it lets Lonzo take a shot in rhythm.

For the record, Lebron off ball is not all that. He has to and I think will be better.

Problem is if you want to be a good PnR operator you need to be a threat to score/shoot/pass. He can pass but the latter two he's deficient. So they just play off him.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:46 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
24Legend007 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
PauPau wrote:
blackmamba08 wrote:
ibij wrote:
Lebron is making young cores suffer....


I think too. He is really ball dominant in half court offense. Like to take hard shots. Its true that he is passing the ball but also like to take the 1on1 too much. Our young players can just watch him playing. Its the same with Ball. Ball should be running pnr all the time but actually he doesn't have opportunity to do it. One thing I would really like to see is Ball-James pick n roll offense. It can be deadly combination. I maybe see it once or twice.


Lonzo in the PnR would be a nightmare to watch, no getting around that.
Our 4th quarter offence has been hard to watch no doubt but that's not completely on LbJ.


Lonzo's PnR game leaves much to be desired b/c he's not a threat to score off the PnR.

I don't think LBJ wants the offense to be LBJ-centric but we dont' have consistent lead scorers that can be trusted to spearhead the offense.


I want to see more LBJ/Zo pick and roll. Force Lonzo to either take a layup or just make the right play.I know it's not his game right now but I think he can do it and he just needs reps. You have to force the action with this kid. Just a couple times a game to mix it up.

I think Lonzo can be our perimeter Draymond Green type of utility player. I kind of look at BI and Lonzo like they are similar in that regard.

Also what I like about Lonzo/LBJ pick and pop is it lets Lonzo take a shot in rhythm.

For the record, Lebron off ball is not all that. He has to and I think will be better.

Problem is if you want to be a good PnR operator you need to be a threat to score/shoot/pass. He can pass but the latter two he's deficient. So they just play off him.


He has deficiencies but it seemed like last game he had more PnR opportunities than any other game this year and he got 11 assists while the team looked good with him on the floor. If he can start to make that in between floater consistently he could see a drastic improvement as a PnR player. I think he’ll also be very effective as a PnR screener for LeBron especially against teams like GSW with small PGs. The offense in the 4th of playoff games is gonna end up being find a mismatch for LeBron and get out of the way anyways.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:18 am    Post subject:

JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
He was actually more ready than Fultz and Fox, in that he could at least be effective on defense. That's not saying much, though.
Good defense at the PG position and the ability to play off the ball next to LeBron while rebounding and pushing pace with improved shooting is noteworthy, and certainly more than 'not saying much'.


You misunderstood me, so this response is a non sequitur. I'm talking about whether the players were NBA ready when they arrived. Considering how poor Fox and Fultz were as rookies, the fact that Ball was better is not saying much.

JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Few people expect Ball to be a finished product right now. But that that excuse goes only so far. He's a professional athlete wearing the purple and gold. The Lakers are not a daycare.
They are and have been the NBA version of a day care for quite a few years. When you rebuild through the draft, player development becomes paramount. Their young core needs to be developed by their young coaching staff under the management of their inexperienced GM and rookie P of BBO. Saying that Ball is not a finished product is more explanation than excuse, no?


It's 2018, not 2015. We are not rebuilding through the draft. Magic scrapped that strategy. We have been unloading young players for cap space to chase max free agents. I have no doubt that we will trade any of the young players if necessary to effectuate the max free agent plan. Ball, Ingram, and the rest have until the trade deadline or so to prove that they should be part of Magic's New Laker Order. Otherwise, they will be expendable. (Edit: I am not saying that they will be moved at the trade deadline. I mean that Magic is likely to start making plans for the summer by around that time, so they need to have made an impression by then.)

Basically, the kids went from being the future to being the fallback plan. If Magic strikes out on free agents next summer, he will fall back on the kids.


Last edited by Aeneas Hunter on Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:18 am    Post subject:

ibij wrote:
Lebron is making young cores suffer....


Could you elaborate on this? Lebron is literally carrying the entire Lakers team while we try to develop Ingram and Lonzo. We've won games while BI and Lonzo were complete garbage. Lebron is giving us the luxury of trying to develop our youth but still winning games.

Hart and Kuzma aren't suffering.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:29 am    Post subject:

lakersfever714 wrote:
ibij wrote:
Lebron is making young cores suffer....


Could you elaborate on this? Lebron is literally carrying the entire Lakers team while we try to develop Ingram and Lonzo. We've won games while BI and Lonzo were complete garbage. Lebron is giving us the luxury of trying to develop our youth but still winning games.

Hart and Kuzma aren't suffering.


Lonzos issues are a lack of PT and shorter leash than anybody else on the team. He’s had a few horrible games(I think the PT affected him negatively in those ones too) but has overall played relatively well this year especially when given sufficient opportunity. Ingram is suffering cause of LeBron but that is on Ingram not the other way around. He needs to learn how to fit.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:48 am    Post subject:

As it is mentioned in this thread, the signing of Lebron accelerated the needed development of the young core.
The training wheels are off and they are expected to produce.
Magic has a two year window in which to build a contender.
This is out of sync with the previous philosophy of taking 3 to 5 years to build a contender.
But this two year build is better for the fans and the team.
It is no fun to be in the lottery year after year.
And the word tank is part of the team.

Wouldn't be surprised that players that don't produce will get traded or cut.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:03 am    Post subject:

LandsbergerRules wrote:
ramirezmu8 wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
ramirezmu8 wrote:
Image we would've landed Fultz instead of Zo? LG would be unbearable with the way Fultz has been playing since he got to the NBA


Man, that would've been a disaster. Fultz is a mess.


I'm sure you saw his free throw tonight. Just awful. I feel for the kid.


Do you mean this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TC9wUtU20g


Wait a minute, how is that even legal? Why didn't they call lane violation? That hitch is basically a shot fake and causes people to get in the lane early. Is the league making an exception for him? What is going on?
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