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governator
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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 Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| Maybe we looking it wrong. This kid isn’t J.Kidd mold, he’s the glove |
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sonic the laker
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Joined: 06 Oct 2013
Posts: 2071
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfever714 wrote: | | levon wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: |
Bottom line is he just flatout sucks. He doesn't some of the very crucial skillsets of an elite PG and we can't do anything about it. We cannot fix something he doesn't even have. |
You know he's played like 70 total games and is 21 and the whole reason development staffs exist on every NBA team is to give players what they don't have, right? This is a kid. We didn't sign a 28 year old in his prime for 5 million. |
What do you want to develop with him? His fundamentals are so flawed. Do you want to change his jumpshot? teach him how to layup? teach him mid-range jumpshot/floater? How long would it take assuming it's possible? 2 years? 5 years? 10 years? Are you willing to put him in games for him to develop those new skills and risk losing those games?
"Let's make Lonzo our starting PG for the next 5 years and let's "build" around him. We should spend another 5 years rebuilding because Lonzo has the potential to become great."
Our development period is over. We are in win now/competing mode. We need players who can make an impact immediately. Not someone who's training to become good 5 years down the road. |
Why wouldn't you try to develop a young draft player? Isn't that what the draft is for? Drafting players with the best potential, and then developing them to meet that potential?
Granted, some picks go wrong, which is why the draft isn't always a sure thing. Some high picks never pan out, and some low picks unexpectedly blow up. But, seeing how Zo has shown himself to be an excellent passer, with great court vision, and elite defensive skills, why shuttle him. Is helping a young player develop that onerous.
I swear, most NBA fans think that every high draft pick has to show immediate impact, or they're a bust. That works in video games, not in real life.
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BlackStarMamba
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Joined: 29 May 2018
Posts: 1377
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:00 am Post subject: |
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anyways, im just messing with yall
im a big Lonzo fan
hell be alright
his off court stuff is likely fabricated for the show a bit. that's reality TV for ya
he should be fine
most players who come into league don't have a refined game until 3-4 years especially PGs ----look at Victor Oladipo, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Mike Conley etc
one thing that always improves with players is their shooting
(lebron, russ, john wall, even rondo's shooting is better than the beginning)
the other facets of his game are already established and will be even stronger as time goes (defense, rebounding, court vision)
most players who could shoot in HS or college, still can shoot in the pros (mcdermott, rj hunter, Ferdett). the reason they fail is they have no other aspects to their game, which is not the case with Zo
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greenfrog
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Joined: 02 Jan 2011
Posts: 36081
Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | Maybe we looking it wrong. This kid isn’t J.Kidd mold, he’s the glove |
The Glove was one of the most ball dominant PG's ever. Doug Christie's probaby a more accurate comparison given how sparse his impact is on the offense. |
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governator
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25092
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | governator wrote: | | Maybe we looking it wrong. This kid isn’t J.Kidd mold, he’s the glove |
The Glove was one of the most ball dominant PG's ever. Doug Christie's probaby a more accurate comparison given how sparse his impact is on the offense. |
Don’t know why but that finger to the sky Christie love confession make me cringe every time... anyway, start from Doug and make your way up to the glove, we talking potential here, not current value |
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anth2000
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 12194
Location: Pasadena, CA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| BlackStarMamba wrote: | anyways, im just messing with yall
im a big Lonzo fan
hell be alright
his off court stuff is likely fabricated for the show a bit. that's reality TV for ya
he should be fine
most players who come into league don't have a refined game until 3-4 years especially PGs ----look at Victor Oladipo, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Mike Conley etc
one thing that always improves with players is their shooting
(lebron, russ, john wall, even rondo's shooting is better than the beginning)
the other facets of his game are already established and will be even stronger as time goes (defense, rebounding, court vision)
most players who could shoot in HS or college, still can shoot in the pros (mcdermott, rj hunter, Ferdett). the reason they fail is they have no other aspects to their game, which is not the case with Zo |
Zo can't shot for beans and really has zero confidence in shooting the ball.
My hopes is that the FO gets him a shooting coach.
How about Nash, Reggie Miller, anyone.
Until he fixes that ugly shot, he's not going to be any good. |
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lakersfever714
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2016
Posts: 11846
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| sonic the laker wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | levon wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: |
Bottom line is he just flatout sucks. He doesn't some of the very crucial skillsets of an elite PG and we can't do anything about it. We cannot fix something he doesn't even have. |
You know he's played like 70 total games and is 21 and the whole reason development staffs exist on every NBA team is to give players what they don't have, right? This is a kid. We didn't sign a 28 year old in his prime for 5 million. |
What do you want to develop with him? His fundamentals are so flawed. Do you want to change his jumpshot? teach him how to layup? teach him mid-range jumpshot/floater? How long would it take assuming it's possible? 2 years? 5 years? 10 years? Are you willing to put him in games for him to develop those new skills and risk losing those games?
"Let's make Lonzo our starting PG for the next 5 years and let's "build" around him. We should spend another 5 years rebuilding because Lonzo has the potential to become great."
Our development period is over. We are in win now/competing mode. We need players who can make an impact immediately. Not someone who's training to become good 5 years down the road. |
Why wouldn't you try to develop a young draft player? Isn't that what the draft is for? Drafting players with the best potential, and then developing them to meet that potential?
Granted, some picks go wrong, which is why the draft isn't always a sure thing. Some high picks never pan out, and some low picks unexpectedly blow up. But, seeing how Zo has shown himself to be an excellent passer, with great court vision, and elite defensive skills, why shuttle him. Is helping a young player develop that onerous.
I swear, most NBA fans think that every high draft pick has to show immediate impact, or they're a bust. That works in video games, not in real life. |
I agree he's one of the best passers with the best court vision in the game but have you seen him attack the basket? He's one of the worst players in the league at doing it. Because of his elite defense and elite passing skills, we could try and help him develop his dribble penetration and mid range jumpshot but the problem now is that this Laker team is very different from a year ago.
We're no longer trying to develop players so it's very difficult to find time to develop him. Winning games is priority. Luke would take him out at the fist sign he's playing badly.
I think he's much better off playing for one of the lottery teams. Hopefully, a GM will realize it and take a chance on him.
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Nash Vegas
Star Player
Joined: 01 Sep 2012
Posts: 7239
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | Maybe we looking it wrong. This kid isn’t J.Kidd mold, he’s the glove |
He's the glove without the scoring.
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BennyLava
Star Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2012
Posts: 3582
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| He may look like crap now but I guarantee you come playoff time, he is the type of player who will make a difference between a win and a loss. |
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BlackStarMamba
Star Player
Joined: 29 May 2018
Posts: 1377
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| anth2000 wrote: | | BlackStarMamba wrote: | anyways, im just messing with yall
im a big Lonzo fan
hell be alright
his off court stuff is likely fabricated for the show a bit. that's reality TV for ya
he should be fine
most players who come into league don't have a refined game until 3-4 years especially PGs ----look at Victor Oladipo, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Mike Conley etc
one thing that always improves with players is their shooting
(lebron, russ, john wall, even rondo's shooting is better than the beginning)
the other facets of his game are already established and will be even stronger as time goes (defense, rebounding, court vision)
most players who could shoot in HS or college, still can shoot in the pros (mcdermott, rj hunter, Ferdett). the reason they fail is they have no other aspects to their game, which is not the case with Zo |
Zo can't shot for beans and really has zero confidence in shooting the ball.
My hopes is that the FO gets him a shooting coach.
How about Nash, Reggie Miller, anyone.
Until he fixes that ugly shot, he's not going to be any good. |
he can shoot, hes in a BIG shooting slump. but shooting is one thing in the NBA can be improved
John Wall is not a good shooter, but he is respectable. He shot .071% from 3 as a 2nd year (year I thought it was a joke when I saw it)
Ricky Rubios career FG is still .383 and he is still a starting PG in this league
Lonzo is shooting better than last year lol .360 ver .380 from 3 and .420 vs .430 from 2.s
im not a Lonzo apologist but I believe his shooting will come around
his biggest problem is the noise that surrounds him and that he was drafted #2
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greenfrog
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Joined: 02 Jan 2011
Posts: 36081
Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| LakerDYnasty72 wrote: | | Fortysixn2 wrote: | | VicXLakers wrote: |
Zo looked like a real rat on that last episode of his show...wasting big $$$ on trips to Vegas and Bora Bora while complaining he has no time for the baby...not a good look dude  |
I’m assuming that you’ve never had kids and either been divorced or just not married at all. It’s not as simple as all that. Even if you want to spend time with your kids, they aren’t yours most of the time. You can sit at home and wish they were with you, but it doesn’t mean that you get to spend any more time with them.
Being a single dad is tough, being a 21 year old single dad is even harder. How about being a human being and stop calling some young kid in a tough situation names and have some empathy. |
I check the box in each of those categories. Single dad from the time my daughter was four years of age. She's twenty one now. So seventeen years is enough time to make a qualified judgement.
My observations:
1.Most boys, young men, and men should not get married before age 30.
2.Some should not get married at all
3. Being with your kids, especially with the resources he has, is about priority. I've never watched their program, but if what I've just read is true, then the truth is simple to perceive: his child is not his priority. Make an argument if you like, but an old saying will suffice for me. That saying: "actions speak louder (and will always) than words"
4. He has the priorities of a typical 21 year old; explore life, meet different women, purchase whatever the f he wants (like we'd all like to do), etc..
5. Has fidelity been brought up on the show? I'd be very surprised if he hasn't. A twenty one year old man, handsome, rich, and opportunities most of us men can only dream about, is expected to be "faithful?". Yeah, ok
6. Here's my suggestion with empathy for him: take a page from a guy (Lou Williams) who shares your birthday. Lou, at least the last time I heard about it, has two women waiting for him at home. They have been fully informed what to expect if cohabitation with him is established. They accepted so there ain't no "he's cheating, or is "irresponsible" accusations hurled his way. |
7. It's a reality show storyline (i.e. fake). |
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sonic the laker
Star Player
Joined: 06 Oct 2013
Posts: 2071
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfever714 wrote: | | sonic the laker wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | levon wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: |
Bottom line is he just flatout sucks. He doesn't some of the very crucial skillsets of an elite PG and we can't do anything about it. We cannot fix something he doesn't even have. |
You know he's played like 70 total games and is 21 and the whole reason development staffs exist on every NBA team is to give players what they don't have, right? This is a kid. We didn't sign a 28 year old in his prime for 5 million. |
What do you want to develop with him? His fundamentals are so flawed. Do you want to change his jumpshot? teach him how to layup? teach him mid-range jumpshot/floater? How long would it take assuming it's possible? 2 years? 5 years? 10 years? Are you willing to put him in games for him to develop those new skills and risk losing those games?
"Let's make Lonzo our starting PG for the next 5 years and let's "build" around him. We should spend another 5 years rebuilding because Lonzo has the potential to become great."
Our development period is over. We are in win now/competing mode. We need players who can make an impact immediately. Not someone who's training to become good 5 years down the road. |
Why wouldn't you try to develop a young draft player? Isn't that what the draft is for? Drafting players with the best potential, and then developing them to meet that potential?
Granted, some picks go wrong, which is why the draft isn't always a sure thing. Some high picks never pan out, and some low picks unexpectedly blow up. But, seeing how Zo has shown himself to be an excellent passer, with great court vision, and elite defensive skills, why shuttle him. Is helping a young player develop that onerous.
I swear, most NBA fans think that every high draft pick has to show immediate impact, or they're a bust. That works in video games, not in real life. |
I agree he's one of the best passers with the best court vision in the game but have you seen him attack the basket? He's one of the worst players in the league at doing it. Because of his elite defense and elite passing skills, we could try and help him develop his dribble penetration and mid range jumpshot but the problem now is that this Laker team is very different from a year ago.
We're no longer trying to develop players so it's very difficult to find time to develop him. Winning games is priority. Luke would take him out at the fist sign he's playing badly.
I think he's much better off playing for one of the lottery teams. Hopefully, a GM will realize it and take a chance on him. |
The narrative we were given from Maginka was that the Lakers were going to tread the fine line of continuing to develop the young talent on the team, which is why they got a lot of these vet players like Rondo, while aiming to compete now, i.e. LeBron.
I sincerely hope that they stick to that narrative, and not panic, making trades for immediate gratification, at the expense of long term success. We'll see.
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ringfinger
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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:38 am Post subject: |
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Just watched some UCLa footage of Lonzo.
Man, dude was so amped there. What happened? |
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Threatt_Level
Starting Rotation
Joined: 30 Jul 2014
Posts: 467
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | Maybe we looking it wrong. This kid isn’t J.Kidd mold, he’s the glove |
Payton was very good at finishing at the rim. Not him, either. |
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epak
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | Just watched some UCLa footage of Lonzo.
Man, dude was so amped there. What happened? |
1. Lesser competition especially at the rim
2. More involved in the offense through ball movement? (I dont recall if true)
3. More Pick and Pop plays which gets him involved |
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BigBallerBrand
Star Player
Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 5802
Location: LA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:59 am Post subject: |
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would u guys trade Lonzo for randle back?
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epak
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| BigBallerBrand wrote: | | would u guys trade Lonzo for randle back? |
Nope.
But maybe for Jru Holiday. |
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BigBallerBrand
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Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 5802
Location: LA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:09 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Fortysixn2 wrote: | | VicXLakers wrote: |
Zo looked like a real rat on that last episode of his show...wasting big $$$ on trips to Vegas and Bora Bora while complaining he has no time for the baby...not a good look dude |
I’m assuming that you’ve never had kids and either been divorced or just not married at all. It’s not as simple as all that. Even if you want to spend time with your kids, they aren’t yours most of the time. You can sit at home and wish they were with you, but it doesn’t mean that you get to spend any more time with them.
Being a single dad is tough, being a 21 year old single dad is even harder. How about being a human being and stop calling some young kid in a tough situation names and have some empathy. |
You're right. Which is why it was such a poor decision to have a child given the circumstances. |
I don’t like Lonzo as a b-ball player but I doubt he is a bad dude off the court. If anything, his deceiving “gf” probably intentionally trapped his ass for money knowing that he was going to leave her
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:09 am Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | BigBallerBrand wrote: | | would u guys trade Lonzo for randle back? |
Nope.
But maybe for Jru Holiday. |
LOL. Everyone in here wants to trade Lonzo for Kemba, Jrue, all these PG studs.
I'm sure Philly would trade Fultz for Curry too but cmon. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| ESPN released RPM today. Ball is -.34 on ORPM, -.19 on DRPM. He is 20th among point guards on DRPM, 45th on ORPM. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:14 am Post subject: |
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I don't think many teams would trade an all star for Lonzo. I think he's a peculiar player and the Lakers will be stuck with him (and I like Lonzo so that's good in my book).
The trade asset would be BI as I can see some GMs falling in love with his length.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | I don't think many teams would trade an all star for Lonzo. I think he's a peculiar player and the Lakers will be stuck with him (and I like Lonzo so that's good in my book).
The trade asset would be BI as I can see some GMs falling in love with his length. |
Problem now is that his floor looks miniscule and so all you have left is that elusive ceiling. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | I don't think many teams would trade an all star for Lonzo. I think he's a peculiar player and the Lakers will be stuck with him (and I like Lonzo so that's good in my book).
The trade asset would be BI as I can see some GMs falling in love with his length. |
Problem now is that his floor looks miniscule and so all you have left is that elusive ceiling. |
Point stands that Lonzo isn't going to be fetching you much on the trade market. He's a unique player and I do think other FOs want to stay away from the Ball family.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | I don't think many teams would trade an all star for Lonzo. I think he's a peculiar player and the Lakers will be stuck with him (and I like Lonzo so that's good in my book).
The trade asset would be BI as I can see some GMs falling in love with his length. |
Problem now is that his floor looks miniscule and so all you have left is that elusive ceiling. |
Point stands that Lonzo isn't going to be fetching you much on the trade market. He's a unique player and I do think other FOs want to stay away from the Ball family. |
Yeah, I was agreeing with you on Ball. He just doesnt offer as much upside at the moment.
Brandon’s floor seems much higher than Ball, but, his ceiling has come down a ton since being drafted. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | I don't think many teams would trade an all star for Lonzo. I think he's a peculiar player and the Lakers will be stuck with him (and I like Lonzo so that's good in my book).
The trade asset would be BI as I can see some GMs falling in love with his length. |
Problem now is that his floor looks miniscule and so all you have left is that elusive ceiling. |
Point stands that Lonzo isn't going to be fetching you much on the trade market. He's a unique player and I do think other FOs want to stay away from the Ball family. |
Yeah, I was agreeing with you on Ball. He just doesnt offer as much upside at the moment.
Brandon’s floor seems much higher than Ball, but, his ceiling has come down a ton since being drafted. |
I think Lonzo is one of those puzzles that take a while to do but when it's done...question is whether all the pieces will come into place.
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