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epak
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
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 Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: |
Ball, Hart, Bron, Kuz with a center is our best lineup. Luke you gotta recognize this. |
4 man lineups get harder as it's harder to get groups with a lot of minutes played together. Of all the 4 man lineups that played over 80 mins together, the only + lineup is:
Lebron + Lonzo + Hart + Kuzma
Min: 111, Ortg: 105.8, Drtg: 098.5, Net: +7.4
With 5 man lineups, you'll only find 1 lineup that even played over 80 mins together, and that's the current starting lineup:
Lebron + Lonzo + Kuzma + Ingram + McGee
Min: 139, Ortg: 107.2, Drtg: 109.7, Net: -2.6
I'm not a fan of it, obviously. |
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BigGameHames
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Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: |
Ball, Hart, Bron, Kuz with a center is our best lineup. Luke you gotta recognize this. |
4 man lineups get harder as it's harder to get groups with a lot of minutes played together. Of all the 4 man lineups that played over 80 mins together, the only + lineup is:
Lebron + Lonzo + Hart + Kuzma
Min: 111, Ortg: 105.8, Drtg: 098.5, Net: +7.4
With 5 man lineups, you'll only find 1 lineup that even played over 80 mins together, and that's the current starting lineup:
Lebron + Lonzo + Kuzma + Ingram + McGee
Min: 139, Ortg: 107.2, Drtg: 109.7, Net: -2.6
I'm not a fan of it, obviously. |
There’s gotta be other factors at play besides on court production when considering who is starting. If a couple dudes watching from their couch think it’s obvious and the numbers support it, I can’t get myself to believe Luke and his staff actually think this is the best starting lineup for the team. |
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epak
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | epak wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: |
Ball, Hart, Bron, Kuz with a center is our best lineup. Luke you gotta recognize this. |
4 man lineups get harder as it's harder to get groups with a lot of minutes played together. Of all the 4 man lineups that played over 80 mins together, the only + lineup is:
Lebron + Lonzo + Hart + Kuzma
Min: 111, Ortg: 105.8, Drtg: 098.5, Net: +7.4
With 5 man lineups, you'll only find 1 lineup that even played over 80 mins together, and that's the current starting lineup:
Lebron + Lonzo + Kuzma + Ingram + McGee
Min: 139, Ortg: 107.2, Drtg: 109.7, Net: -2.6
I'm not a fan of it, obviously. |
There’s gotta be other factors at play besides on court production when considering who is starting. If a couple dudes watching from their couch think it’s obvious and the numbers support it, I can’t get myself to believe Luke and his staff actually think this is the best starting lineup for the team. |
Definitely other factors.
One might be that if Hart is taken off the 2nd unit, the 2nd unit might turn into crap?
They don't know what going to the bench might do to BI/Kuzma?
But I think the biggest one is that it's a bit early. Maybe they want to give it some time before making changes? |
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ringfinger
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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | epak wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: |
Ball, Hart, Bron, Kuz with a center is our best lineup. Luke you gotta recognize this. |
4 man lineups get harder as it's harder to get groups with a lot of minutes played together. Of all the 4 man lineups that played over 80 mins together, the only + lineup is:
Lebron + Lonzo + Hart + Kuzma
Min: 111, Ortg: 105.8, Drtg: 098.5, Net: +7.4
With 5 man lineups, you'll only find 1 lineup that even played over 80 mins together, and that's the current starting lineup:
Lebron + Lonzo + Kuzma + Ingram + McGee
Min: 139, Ortg: 107.2, Drtg: 109.7, Net: -2.6
I'm not a fan of it, obviously. |
There’s gotta be other factors at play besides on court production when considering who is starting. If a couple dudes watching from their couch think it’s obvious and the numbers support it, I can’t get myself to believe Luke and his staff actually think this is the best starting lineup for the team. |
Well one of the reasons might be political. He was told to get his lineups in order so he can’t go and fuddle with the lineup some more right away. |
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Villain6Activated
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Joined: 22 Dec 2011
Posts: 6697
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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Ball/Hart/Ingram/Lebron is our best lineup, Luke gotta recognize this.
_________________
“Life is too short. You have to keep it moving.” - Kobe |
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Villain6Activated
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Joined: 22 Dec 2011
Posts: 6697
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | MJST wrote: | The ideal starting and bench lineup is this
Starters:
Lonzo Ball
Josh Hart
Brandon Ingram
LeBron James
JaVale McGee
Bench:
Rajon Rondo
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
Lance Stephenson / Svi
Kyle Kuzma
Tyson Chandler / Zubac
Those should be our current 12/15 when it comes to starting and bench unit. But we all knew what the best starting lineup was last year too, and how long did it take Luke to figure that out? |
No ideal lineup has Ingram, LBJ, and Lonzo on the floor together. One will always be forgotten or minimized because they need prime ball handling duties. |
it would have been the ideal lineup if Zo and Ingram had ideal development.
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“Life is too short. You have to keep it moving.” - Kobe |
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MJST
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Posts: 26385
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| 1ngr4m wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | MJST wrote: | The ideal starting and bench lineup is this
Starters:
Lonzo Ball
Josh Hart
Brandon Ingram
LeBron James
JaVale McGee
Bench:
Rajon Rondo
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
Lance Stephenson / Svi
Kyle Kuzma
Tyson Chandler / Zubac
Those should be our current 12/15 when it comes to starting and bench unit. But we all knew what the best starting lineup was last year too, and how long did it take Luke to figure that out? |
No ideal lineup has Ingram, LBJ, and Lonzo on the floor together. One will always be forgotten or minimized because they need prime ball handling duties. |
it would have been the ideal lineup if Zo and Ingram had ideal development. |
Playing your natural position helps with development. Ask Kuzma the center.
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How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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BigBallerBrand
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Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 5802
Location: LA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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Million dollar question: Lonzo for Fultz straight up. Who says no?
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Billions Billions Billions |
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noahp45
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Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 6572
Location: Oceanside Ca
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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OK Ball Haters
D fox went 1-10 0-4 from 3 and only 4pts tonight.
Where are the guys claiming he was better? |
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LakersPimp
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 2207
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| noahp45 wrote: | OK Ball Haters
D fox went 1-10 0-4 from 3 and only 4pts tonight.
Where are the guys claiming he was better? |
you didn't watch the game...he had 13 assists and had control of the tempo...he had command...he was a leader on the floor...not a passive soldier...like our dear lonzo |
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awntawn
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| noahp45 wrote: | OK Ball Haters
D fox went 1-10 0-4 from 3 and only 4pts tonight.
Where are the guys claiming he was better? |
Did you watch the game? Fox was still making it happen on both ends even when his shot wasn't falling, and they ended up beating a really good OKC team at full strength. |
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LakersPimp
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 2207
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| If u look up my post history I wanted fox over lonzo during the draft...and I'd take him now...lonzo plus bi for fox and buddy....easy |
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pio2u
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Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 54623
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| noahp45 wrote: | OK Ball Haters
D fox went 1-10 0-4 from 3 and only 4pts tonight.
Where are the guys claiming he was better? |
I like Zo but Fox actually had 6 points tonight. He also made two clutch FT's to seal the win PLUS 13 assists. |
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noahp45
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Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 6572
Location: Oceanside Ca
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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| awntawn wrote: | | noahp45 wrote: | OK Ball Haters
D fox went 1-10 0-4 from 3 and only 4pts tonight.
Where are the guys claiming he was better? |
Did you watch the game? Fox was still making it happen on both ends even when his shot wasn't falling, and they ended up beating a really good OKC team at full strength. |
Yes I did
And That is exactly what ball does, and more consistent. |
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noahp45
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Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 6572
Location: Oceanside Ca
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| awntawn wrote: | | noahp45 wrote: | OK Ball Haters
D fox went 1-10 0-4 from 3 and only 4pts tonight.
Where are the guys claiming he was better? |
Did you watch the game? Fox was still making it happen on both ends even when his shot wasn't falling, and they ended up beating a really good OKC team at full strength. |
Exactly what Ball does. |
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noahp45
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Posts: 6572
Location: Oceanside Ca
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| pio2u wrote: | | noahp45 wrote: | OK Ball Haters
D fox went 1-10 0-4 from 3 and only 4pts tonight.
Where are the guys claiming he was better? |
I like Zo but Fox actually had 6 points tonight. He also made two clutch FT's to seal the win PLUS 13 assists. |
I saw him miss that ez lay up with 29 Seconds left in the game |
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LakersPimp
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 2207
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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| noahp45 wrote: | | awntawn wrote: | | noahp45 wrote: | OK Ball Haters
D fox went 1-10 0-4 from 3 and only 4pts tonight.
Where are the guys claiming he was better? |
Did you watch the game? Fox was still making it happen on both ends even when his shot wasn't falling, and they ended up beating a really good OKC team at full strength. |
Yes I did
And That is exactly what ball does, and more consistent. |
I've yet to see ball consistently demand the ball and make several moves in isolation and either finish or create an open spot for a teammate. He does it casually in the 1st quarter... rarely in crucial moments....he may make a jumper...but create....nawwww |
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LakersPimp
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Clearly you are looking to troll...lonzo has zero of fox in him. Zero...but hey ..I appreciate your fandom. I don't see what u see in lonzo....but I wish his play made it more evident for me. |
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Sago
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 1737
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| noahp45 wrote: | OK Ball Haters
D fox went 1-10 0-4 from 3 and only 4pts tonight.
Where are the guys claiming he was better? |
I love Ball but you should take your homer glasses off.
Fox is clearly a better player than Ball this year. |
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LKA
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Joined: 06 Oct 2018
Posts: 5181
Location: Sin City
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Sago wrote: | | noahp45 wrote: | OK Ball Haters
D fox went 1-10 0-4 from 3 and only 4pts tonight.
Where are the guys claiming he was better? |
I love Ball but you should take your homer glasses off.
Fox is clearly a better player than Ball this year. |
Its unfortunately true |
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The Juggernaut
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Joined: 24 Aug 2017
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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| 1ngr4m wrote: | | Ball/Hart/Ingram/Lebron is our best lineup, Luke gotta recognize this. |
The numbers do not support this neither does the eye test
Last edited by The Juggernaut on Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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DancingBarry
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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| CRoost wrote: | | DancingBarry wrote: | Been debating losing both Ingram and Kuzma from the closing unit. (Kuzma should never be there if he's so-so offensively).
If Kuzma/Ingram are playing meh, closing with Lonzo, KCP, Hart, LeBron, Chander/McGee is probably our best option for consistent two-way play now that KCP is rounding into form. |
Offensively, you going to put a lot energy for Lebron to come through. Playoffs, you can roll with that but during regular season, you’re overworking Lebron . Kuz bring a lot of unpredictability because he moves and cuts. Ingram have some mismatches that we need to explore and develop.
Defensively, that’s a lot of holes to fill in especially with Lebron playing half speed in defense. KCP is a good on ball defender but lack size for help defense. Hart has trouble with quick guards. Zo and Chandler can’t fill on that holes. |
I assume by playoff time guys will have a lot fewer issues and we will be putting them into better situations, so the rotations will be different (Ingram will be playing better and making better decisions like he seems to do after a few months...and Kuz will be key in some of the set plays and a bit deadlier). I'm not talking about long term, I'm talking about what's the situation on the floor now and what stats are also showing to be true.
That lineup is less problematic than the consistent issues we have Kuz and Ingram when they have their struggles. BI is really not good on D with how we are using him now and offensively, his midrange is one of our least efficient plays. If Kuz brings it offensively, then you keep him out there. He fits great next to LeBron. But if not, he's consistently being picked on because of his issues with his feet and lack of resistance around the rim.
And Hart you don't put on quick guards in that scenario. You run him at SF against slower guys he can muscle. Lonzo and KCP you put on the quick guards. And with our two bigs, you don't switch, you play drop coverage or blitz and recover.
Since it's only closing, it's also not a lot of wear and tear on LBJ. I don't use LeBron at PF any other time than in closing situations and only a few minutes. That's do-able. He doesn't want to play PF except in that kind of brief stint. You let Lonzo be the trigger man, as well, on passing sequences to hit guys coming off screens in some of your plays down the stretch vs. consistent iso ball. |
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epak
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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| The Juggernaut wrote: | | 1ngr4m wrote: | | Ball/Hart/Ingram/Lebron is our best lineup, Luke gotta recognize this. |
The numbers do not support this neither does the eye test |
Maybe ingr4m has some data to back it up that we haven't seen yet. |
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epak
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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Fox has put up some good offensive numbers.
But the season is early.
Things tend to normalize as the season moves along.
Let's see. |
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DangeRuss
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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Lonzo doesn’t look even as good as he did last season, probably for him playing with lebron is taking the biggest adjustment. It’ll come.
The lack of offseason definitely hurt his progression as well. |
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