| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Stumpy25
Star Player
Joined: 27 Oct 2016
Posts: 1314
|
 Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Lonzo knows he has no trade value at this moment and that's how he wants to keep it, Im sure that's the advice he's getting. However if his lack of offense and engagement continues (and they're not asking him to be Lillard)you can bet the Lakers will package him in a trade one way or another. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
I haven’t given up on any of the young players but their destinations are becoming clearer.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | george w kush wrote: | | It is pathetic all the excuses Ball lovers make for this guy. I think he air balled a layup attempt against Orlando. Has zero game inside the paint and can’t make a contested layup to save his life. |
If you watch the Ball kids in high school, it's as if they eschew contact. Maybe the middle kid but it's b/c he's unathletic and was chubby.
It's a disservice IMO that they basically grew up shooting 3s and running fast breaks.
It's almost a miracle that Lonzo is such a good defender given his dad's basketball tactics. |
No it’s part of the reason he’s a great defender. The other two would always cherry pick while Lonzo would defend, rebound, and look to throw length of the court passes to them. His dads tactics probably hurt the other two defensively a lot but not Lonzo. |
Interesting.
I think taking it to hole through contact is not something they preached.
I loved seeing Lonzo go for alley oops at UCLA. Just seems it's not in his bball DNA to strong at the rim (maybe FT worries, injury concerns?).
Having played ball for a long time, I was never one who wanted to attack the rim either. More of a shooter. I would try to be more of an attacker but just not my game. Maybe it's just who he is. |
Yea I think that’s where his dads AAU on steroids style really hurt him. And no half court game/1 v 1 dribble moves. I have a lot of faith in this kid to turn it around though. He’s not playing well and is still one of the best young players on the team according to the various analytics. I don’t think that’s a coincidence, he has glaring holes that look worse than they are and great strengths that go unnoticed. He’s gotta get better but he’s been better than he looks regardless. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Don’t worry everybody, you’ll be welcomed back on the bandwagon when you realize you shouldn’t have hopped off. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
epak
Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
| BigGameHames wrote: | | Don’t worry everybody, you’ll be welcomed back on the bandwagon when you realize you shouldn’t have hopped off. |
I've got to admit, they do keep the thread interesting. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PauPau
Starting Rotation
Joined: 12 Jul 2018
Posts: 844
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
| BigGameHames wrote: | | Don’t worry everybody, you’ll be welcomed back on the bandwagon when you realize you shouldn’t have hopped off. |
Was NEVER on the bandwagon but your offer, should circumstances change, is thoughtful.
I hope that's the conversation that will dominate vs us discussing how he never lived up to his billing and was never worth having bandwagoneers. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| epak wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | Don’t worry everybody, you’ll be welcomed back on the bandwagon when you realize you shouldn’t have hopped off. |
I've got to admit, they do keep the thread interesting. |
I too got a nice laugh out of the recent hypocrisy. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
| PauPau wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | Don’t worry everybody, you’ll be welcomed back on the bandwagon when you realize you shouldn’t have hopped off. |
Was NEVER on the bandwagon but your offer, should circumstances change, is thoughtful.
I hope that's the conversation that will dominate vs us discussing how he never lived up to his billing and was never worth having bandwagoneers. |
I think the likely conversation will be his impact vs stats regardless of how great or terrible he ends up. He will always be woefully misunderstood IMO. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ziggy
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 12712
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| BigGameHames wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | george w kush wrote: | | It is pathetic all the excuses Ball lovers make for this guy. I think he air balled a layup attempt against Orlando. Has zero game inside the paint and can’t make a contested layup to save his life. |
If you watch the Ball kids in high school, it's as if they eschew contact. Maybe the middle kid but it's b/c he's unathletic and was chubby.
It's a disservice IMO that they basically grew up shooting 3s and running fast breaks.
It's almost a miracle that Lonzo is such a good defender given his dad's basketball tactics. |
No it’s part of the reason he’s a great defender. The other two would always cherry pick while Lonzo would defend, rebound, and look to throw length of the court passes to them. His dads tactics probably hurt the other two defensively a lot but not Lonzo. |
Interesting.
I think taking it to hole through contact is not something they preached.
I loved seeing Lonzo go for alley oops at UCLA. Just seems it's not in his bball DNA to strong at the rim (maybe FT worries, injury concerns?).
Having played ball for a long time, I was never one who wanted to attack the rim either. More of a shooter. I would try to be more of an attacker but just not my game. Maybe it's just who he is. |
Yea I think that’s where his dads AAU on steroids style really hurt him. And no half court game/1 v 1 dribble moves. I have a lot of faith in this kid to turn it around though. He’s not playing well and is still one of the best young players on the team according to the various analytics. I don’t think that’s a coincidence, he has glaring holes that look worse than they are and great strengths that go unnoticed. He’s gotta get better but he’s been better than he looks regardless. |
See I always thought rookie Lonzo was much better than he looked. He was impacting games in so many ways even when his offense struggled. Even defensively, he seemed just a half step quicker. This year he's been as bad as he looks imo. Maybe he just wasn't able to get in basketball shape because of the knee. Still early so I have hope he'll figure it out. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
noahp45
Star Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 6572
Location: Oceanside Ca
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
| MJST wrote: | | LakersPimp wrote: | | noahp45 wrote: | OK Ball Haters
D fox went 1-10 0-4 from 3 and only 4pts tonight.
Where are the guys claiming he was better? |
you didn't watch the game...he had 13 assists and had control of the tempo...he had command...he was a leader on the floor...not a passive soldier...like our dear lonzo |
"passive soldier" again, you aren't talking about defense, rebounding and passing are you? Cause Lonzo is anything but with those things.
So it seems Fox gets credit for "doing the extra things when his shot isn't falling" yet Lonzo doesn't get that when he does all of those things at a higher level than Fox?
Seems we see how it works. |
This |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
noahp45
Star Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 6572
Location: Oceanside Ca
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
| BigGameHames wrote: | | Don’t worry everybody, you’ll be welcomed back on the bandwagon when you realize you shouldn’t have hopped off. |
Nope,
they are not allowed back on.
My Fault
Last edited by noahp45 on Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| noahp45 wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | Don’t worry everybody, you’ll be welcomed back on the bandwagon when you realize you shouldn’t have hopped off. |
Nope,
they are not aloud back on. |
I disagree, they are very loud but should still be allowed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
audioaxes
Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 12573
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Stumpy25 wrote: | | Lonzo knows he has no trade value at this moment and that's how he wants to keep it, Im sure that's the advice he's getting. However if his lack of offense and engagement continues (and they're not asking him to be Lillard)you can bet the Lakers will package him in a trade one way or another. |
nah no way he is intentionally playing bad to prevent a trade.
_________________
(bleep) Kawhi |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26309
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| LakersPimp wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | LakersPimp wrote: | | noahp45 wrote: | OK Ball Haters
D fox went 1-10 0-4 from 3 and only 4pts tonight.
Where are the guys claiming he was better? |
you didn't watch the game...he had 13 assists and had control of the tempo...he had command...he was a leader on the floor...not a passive soldier...like our dear lonzo |
"passive soldier" again, you aren't talking about defense, rebounding and passing are you? Cause Lonzo is anything but with those things.
So it seems Fox gets credit for "doing the extra things when his shot isn't falling" yet Lonzo doesn't get that when he does all of those things at a higher level than Fox?
Seems we see how it works. |
It seems Lonzo is best doing all the little things....this year he has had little true impact on games...getting mist of his stats in the first half. When has he stepped to the line and hit clutch free throws? He is a decent player...but I want my pg to be a leader. Not a role player. The amount of excuses made for Lonzo is amazing. And these are coming from people who loved Kobe....and magic...and nick van exel....the blasphemy |
Then you haven't been watching.
Do you think we win the Portland game without his defense on Lillard?
Seems like you're giving full credit to Fox if he does anything other than score when his shot is off, but Lonzo's been doing it all year and you say it doesn't have much impact. Again, I see how it seems to work.
_________________
How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk
Last edited by MJST on Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:58 am; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bandiger
Franchise Player
Joined: 02 Apr 2014
Posts: 12555
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| noahp45 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | LakersPimp wrote: | | noahp45 wrote: | OK Ball Haters
D fox went 1-10 0-4 from 3 and only 4pts tonight.
Where are the guys claiming he was better? |
you didn't watch the game...he had 13 assists and had control of the tempo...he had command...he was a leader on the floor...not a passive soldier...like our dear lonzo |
"passive soldier" again, you aren't talking about defense, rebounding and passing are you? Cause Lonzo is anything but with those things.
So it seems Fox gets credit for "doing the extra things when his shot isn't falling" yet Lonzo doesn't get that when he does all of those things at a higher level than Fox?
Seems we see how it works. |
This |
Until he starts routinely closing games that stigma will be on him. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26309
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
Lonzo gets called passive when he's taking open jumpers, rebounding at a solid rate and assisting at a solid rate despite being next to Lebron. On top of all that he's playing defense at a high rate and stays engaged even when his shot isn't falling.
But he is called "passive" and his mentality is questioned, as if his shot being off is keeping him from being aggressive, and these things are said of him less than 24 hours after he says he intends to keep shooting and taking the open opportunities.
meanwhile, De'Aaron Fox can go 2-10 and those same people jumping on Lonzo will go "yeah but did you see the other stuff Fox was doing to help his team despite the shot not falling?"
It seems obvious that rather than judge things objectively, they want to pump up Fox while diminishing anything Lonzo brings to the table.
Dunno what it's gonna take for some of these fans to understand that they continue to fit the trope of never appreciating a Laker until they're no longer in a Lakers uniform. At some point, this double standard needs to cease.
If you actually care what's on the front of the jersey instead of a personal vendetta against whats on the back of the jersey and are actually trying to be objective you'd be giving credit where it's due, instead of being selective about it, particularly if Lonzo contributes in other aspects of the game at a higher level than Fox does.
happens with our own players too when people pick and choose.
Kyle Kuzma is shooting 29% from three on 5 attempts a game and is still called a threat from three.
Meanwhile Lonzo shoots 34% from there on 4.4 attempts per game and people can't stop talking about how broken his shot is, or his airballs...
And so on and so forth. Unfortunate as always.
_________________
How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
noahp45
Star Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 6572
Location: Oceanside Ca
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
| BigGameHames wrote: | | noahp45 wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | Don’t worry everybody, you’ll be welcomed back on the bandwagon when you realize you shouldn’t have hopped off. |
Nope,
they are not aloud back on. |
I disagree, they are very loud but should still be allowed. |
My Fault I meant "allowed" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
noahp45
Star Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 6572
Location: Oceanside Ca
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
| MJST wrote: | Lonzo gets called passive when he's taking open jumpers, rebounding at a solid rate and assisting at a solid rate despite being next to Lebron. On top of all that he's playing defense at a high rate and stays engaged even when his shot isn't falling.
But he is called "passive" and his mentality is questioned, as if his shot being off is keeping him from being aggressive, and these things are said of him less than 24 hours after he says he intends to keep shooting and taking the open opportunities.
meanwhile, De'Aaron Fox can go 2-10 and those same people jumping on Lonzo will go "yeah but did you see the other stuff Fox was doing to help his team despite the shot not falling?"
It seems obvious that rather than judge things objectively, they want to pump up Fox while diminishing anything Lonzo brings to the table.
Dunno what it's gonna take for some of these fans to understand that they continue to fit the trope of never appreciating a Laker until they're no longer in a Lakers uniform. At some point, this double standard needs to cease.
If you actually care what's on the front of the jersey instead of a personal vendetta against whats on the back of the jersey and are actually trying to be objective you'd be giving credit where it's due, instead of being selective about it, particularly if Lonzo contributes in other aspects of the game at a higher level than Fox does.
happens with our own players too when people pick and choose.
Kyle Kuzma is shooting 29% from three on 5 attempts a game and is still called a threat from three.
Meanwhile Lonzo shoots 34% from there on 4.4 attempts per game and people can't stop talking about how broken his shot is, or his airballs...
And so on and so forth. Unfortunate as always. |
"Kyle Kuzma is shooting 29% from three on 5 attempts a game and is still called a threat from three.
Meanwhile Lonzo shoots 34% from there on 4.4 attempts per game and people can't stop talking about how broken his shot is, or his airballs..."
Great Point
you know what they say, Haters going to Hate! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
matrixskillz
Star Player
Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 7502
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
lonzo's 38% FG is atrocious. he should just stick to shooting 3's and lobs.
_________________
We only celebrate championships.
"I GOT WHEATIES!" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
anth2000
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 12165
Location: Pasadena, CA
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
| How could the Lakers and Sixers draft two guys in Fultz and Lonzo who can't shot at all? Both with horribly broken shots? Crazy. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PauPau
Starting Rotation
Joined: 12 Jul 2018
Posts: 844
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
| BigGameHames wrote: | | PauPau wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | Don’t worry everybody, you’ll be welcomed back on the bandwagon when you realize you shouldn’t have hopped off. |
Was NEVER on the bandwagon but your offer, should circumstances change, is thoughtful.
I hope that's the conversation that will dominate vs us discussing how he never lived up to his billing and was never worth having bandwagoneers. |
I think the likely conversation will be his impact vs stats regardless of how great or terrible he ends up. He will always be woefully misunderstood IMO. |
I'm always ready to admit the impact Lonzo has on games both positive and negative.
Its not all about numbers but at the end of the day numbers are the most important thing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
| PauPau wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | PauPau wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | Don’t worry everybody, you’ll be welcomed back on the bandwagon when you realize you shouldn’t have hopped off. |
Was NEVER on the bandwagon but your offer, should circumstances change, is thoughtful.
I hope that's the conversation that will dominate vs us discussing how he never lived up to his billing and was never worth having bandwagoneers. |
I think the likely conversation will be his impact vs stats regardless of how great or terrible he ends up. He will always be woefully misunderstood IMO. |
I'm always ready to admit the impact Lonzo has on games both positive and negative.
Its not all about numbers but at the end of the day numbers are the most important thing. |
No they aren’t. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| anth2000 wrote: | | How could the Lakers and Sixers draft two guys in Fultz and Lonzo who can't shot at all? Both with horribly broken shots? Crazy. |
Fultz's shot is a ship that's sunk.
Lonzo's shot is like an aircraft carrier, comparatively speaking.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26309
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
Lonzo's shot is 35% on 4.4 attempts per game from three.
His current weakness on the offensive end, is his finishing and inside the arc shooting 43%.
Lonzo shoots 43% inside the arc, and 35% outside of it. That is why his FG% is at 39%
League average for inside the arc scoring is around 50% Which if Lonzo could reach would put his percentages at closer to 46% Field Goal and 35% three pointer of it, which would be a night and day difference in how his offense is perceived.
That is one of the biggest holes in his game he needs to fix.
Lonzo's inside the arc offense and finishing ability is the difference between him having a 45% field goal percentage and a 35% three point percentage, and having a 39% Field Goal percentage and a 35% three point percentage.
And the perception would change drastically.
_________________
How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
matrixskillz
Star Player
Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 7502
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
^what can he do to improve his finishing ability? i thought it was a confidence issue due to his knees, but his under the basket moves are high school level at best.
_________________
We only celebrate championships.
"I GOT WHEATIES!" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
