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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
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 Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Christopher Walken wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Bol wrote: | | There's also, I think, a legitimate question whether Fox would be doing what he's doing if he had to share the ball and the court with LeBron, or even Ingram for that matter. |
That's true, but all I am doing is comparing Fox and Ball in the present tense. Ball may turn out to be a better player in the long run, and Fox may fall on his face. This is just something of a snapshot.
What the stats show is that Fox is a much more effective defender this year (his DRPM for last season was -2.71). Ball is a better defender than Fox and is more effective on offense this year than last year. But Fox has turned into a good offensive player. It isn't just scoring, either. Fox averages more assists per 36 than Ball.
But sure, Fox would be playing differently if he had someone like Lebron on the roster. However, if the roles were reversed, Ball would not be putting up Fox's numbers. Lebron is not causing his shooting problems.
None of this should suggest that I am giving up on Ball. I'm not. However, he needs to start progressing in a meaningful way, or else he is going to get left behind. Right now, he may not even have much trade value. |
That is pure speculation on your part and Its funny you've worded it as if it were fact- sounds like projection to me, you have NO IDEA how Zo would be doing in sacramento (away from his dad, maybe not getting someone pregnant etc)
Valiant effort though. |
So in other words, you think he might be doing better if he wasn't Lonzo Ball. Well, he is. |
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epak
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Christopher Walken wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Bol wrote: | | There's also, I think, a legitimate question whether Fox would be doing what he's doing if he had to share the ball and the court with LeBron, or even Ingram for that matter. |
That's true, but all I am doing is comparing Fox and Ball in the present tense. Ball may turn out to be a better player in the long run, and Fox may fall on his face. This is just something of a snapshot.
What the stats show is that Fox is a much more effective defender this year (his DRPM for last season was -2.71). Ball is a better defender than Fox and is more effective on offense this year than last year. But Fox has turned into a good offensive player. It isn't just scoring, either. Fox averages more assists per 36 than Ball.
But sure, Fox would be playing differently if he had someone like Lebron on the roster. However, if the roles were reversed, Ball would not be putting up Fox's numbers. Lebron is not causing his shooting problems.
None of this should suggest that I am giving up on Ball. I'm not. However, he needs to start progressing in a meaningful way, or else he is going to get left behind. Right now, he may not even have much trade value. |
That is pure speculation on your part and Its funny you've worded it as if it were fact- sounds like projection to me, you have NO IDEA how Zo would be doing in sacramento (away from his dad, maybe not getting someone pregnant etc)
Valiant effort though. |
So in other words, you think he might be doing better if he wasn't Lonzo Ball. Well, he is. |
Don't think Lonzo would be putting up 18 ppg as he doesn't shoot as much. But I think Lonzo's other numbers (asst, rebs, steals, blocks) would be higher than Fox's. |
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matrixskillz
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Joined: 22 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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fox has surpassed lonzo in almost every facet. he's improved the biggest knock, his outside shooting, going from 30% to 40% 3pt. lonzo needs to take a page out of fox's book.
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epak
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| matrixskillz wrote: | | fox has surpassed lonzo in almost every facet. he's improved the biggest knock, his outside shooting, going from 30% to 40% 3pt. lonzo needs to take a page out of fox's book. |
Can you expound upon Fox's book? And if you have time, what "almost every facet" means? |
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LakersPimp
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 2176
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | LakersPimp wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | LakersPimp wrote: | | noahp45 wrote: | OK Ball Haters
D fox went 1-10 0-4 from 3 and only 4pts tonight.
Where are the guys claiming he was better? |
you didn't watch the game...he had 13 assists and had control of the tempo...he had command...he was a leader on the floor...not a passive soldier...like our dear lonzo |
"passive soldier" again, you aren't talking about defense, rebounding and passing are you? Cause Lonzo is anything but with those things.
So it seems Fox gets credit for "doing the extra things when his shot isn't falling" yet Lonzo doesn't get that when he does all of those things at a higher level than Fox?
Seems we see how it works. |
It seems Lonzo is best doing all the little things....this year he has had little true impact on games...getting mist of his stats in the first half. When has he stepped to the line and hit clutch free throws? He is a decent player...but I want my pg to be a leader. Not a role player. The amount of excuses made for Lonzo is amazing. And these are coming from people who loved Kobe....and magic...and nick van exel....the blasphemy |
Then you haven't been watching.
Do you think we win the Portland game without his defense on Lillard?
Seems like you're giving full credit to Fox if he does anything other than score when his shot is off, but Lonzo's been doing it all year and you say it doesn't have much impact. Again, I see how it seems to work. |
we are on game # 18...lonzo may have 2-3 memorable games...his backup has been suspended for 3...and now out for a month...and he hasnt had more impact than that? Lonzo is playing well for a backup pg. Kcp as bad as he has been this year is 1-2 good games of surpassing lonzos impact. |
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Team of the 80's
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Joined: 03 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Can't blame Rondo now. |
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Sago
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 1737
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Team of the 80's wrote: | | Can't blame Rondo now. |
Nah. rondo still on the bench yapping at Zo. |
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cthroatgtr
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Joined: 21 Aug 2005
Posts: 1375
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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Let's be honest...the experts had this draft wrong. Fultz is a bust. Lonzo is still a work in progress, but sometimes I don't know. Guys shouldn't miss 20 footers by 2 feet. Lonzo is just too much a work in progress to be picked #2 overall. He hasn't really gotten better his numbers are all down from last year (some due to LBJ of course). He is a 3 make or break player. He doesn't really score from anywhere else. Lakers really need a Fisher type of PG on this team. Doesn't have to be a true PG, just 3-D PG.
Tatum, Fox, Mitchell would have all been better picks than either the #1 or #2 picks.
If there was a good trade to be had, I would move Lonzo in a heartbeat. |
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SD2Hollyweird
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Sago wrote: | | Team of the 80's wrote: | | Can't blame Rondo now. |
Nah. rondo still on the bench yapping at Zo. |
And?
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Would you guys swap for Shai Gilgeous-Alexander? He looks like a really nice player. Younger than Lonzo too. |
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Mike@LG
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Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Would you guys swap for Shai Gilgeous-Alexander? He looks like a really nice player. Younger than Lonzo too. |
Clippers wouldn't.
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epak
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Would you guys swap for Shai Gilgeous-Alexander? He looks like a really nice player. Younger than Lonzo too. |
Why do people wanna trade Lonzo for Kentucky cats? 
The expectations are so different between the 2.
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander since he's been starting:
48%/29%/75% 12.6 pts 3.7 rebs 2.4 assts 0.7 stls 1.0 blks
Agree he's been playing well and doing what the team is asking of him. |
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LakerSD
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Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 23778
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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SGA is legit. Clippers did well with that pick.
Mature player for his age, not afraid of the moment. |
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LandsbergerRules
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Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 11197
Location: The Other Perspective
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Sago wrote: | | Team of the 80's wrote: | | Can't blame Rondo now. |
Nah. rondo still on the bench yapping at Zo. |
So what?
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Jesusdelonla
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Joined: 24 Jan 2018
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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Clarkson: Zo shakes like a stripper when taking that side open 3
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Would you guys swap for Shai Gilgeous-Alexander? He looks like a really nice player. Younger than Lonzo too. |
Clippers wouldn't. |
Oh yeah, for sure they wouldn’t. Was just curious if people here would. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Would you guys swap for Shai Gilgeous-Alexander? He looks like a really nice player. Younger than Lonzo too. |
Clippers wouldn't. |
Oh yeah, for sure they wouldn’t. Was just curious if people here would. |
I don't have an opinion about a hypothetical player swap. If we had drafted him, I'd be feeling good about the pick. SGA is playing well for a rookie PG, though his game still needs a lot of work. I don't know what his ceiling is projected to be, but he looks like an NBA quality player.
We drafted Ball. For me, the only relevance of comparisons to other guards like Fox and SGA is to evaluate Ball's progress. At least when it comes to shooting, SGA is more advanced as a rookie than Ball was. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Would you guys swap for Shai Gilgeous-Alexander? He looks like a really nice player. Younger than Lonzo too. |
Clippers wouldn't. |
Oh yeah, for sure they wouldn’t. Was just curious if people here would. |
I wouldn't. That makes me sound like a homer, but at the same time, if/when Lonzo figures it out, I don't think it'll be close.
Shai OTOH, I struggled to evaluate all summer. It's difficult for me to trust that jumper, but dude is an underrated athlete. Tremendous body control.
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Zillethai
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Joined: 22 Dec 2017
Posts: 1032
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | matrixskillz wrote: | | ^what can he do to improve his finishing ability? i thought it was a confidence issue due to his knees, but his under the basket moves are high school level at best. |
Get stronger, work on his timing, and develop a floater, and learn about "putting defenders in jail".
Ball has the moves to get past guys and has the handle we've seen him do it, but he doesn't put his defender in jail enough.
He seems to have a good working pull up mid, but when he gets to the basket is where the problems are.
I'd say, getting stronger and working on his floater would be a good idea.
I'm sure GT will eventually and maybe make a video about Lonzo's finishing woes and what he could do to fix them ^_^
*fingers crossed* |
Those were all tasks for last summer. Magic specifically stated that he needed a floater as well as finishing ability. He has neither. Magic also specifically stated that this was the most important summer of Lonzo's life. I see no difference offensively between last year and his current game play. What has he done besides get bigger, and get a tattoo? |
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lakerican
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Posts: 3786
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Zillethai wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | matrixskillz wrote: | | ^what can he do to improve his finishing ability? i thought it was a confidence issue due to his knees, but his under the basket moves are high school level at best. |
Get stronger, work on his timing, and develop a floater, and learn about "putting defenders in jail".
Ball has the moves to get past guys and has the handle we've seen him do it, but he doesn't put his defender in jail enough.
He seems to have a good working pull up mid, but when he gets to the basket is where the problems are.
I'd say, getting stronger and working on his floater would be a good idea.
I'm sure GT will eventually and maybe make a video about Lonzo's finishing woes and what he could do to fix them ^_^
*fingers crossed* |
Those were all tasks for last summer. Magic specifically stated that he needed a floater as well as finishing ability. He has neither. Magic also specifically stated that this was the most important summer of Lonzo's life. I see no difference offensively between last year and his current game play. What has he done besides get bigger, and get a tattoo? |
Get a consistent airball  |
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RG73
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Posts: 11508
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Zillethai"
Those were all tasks for last summer. Magic specifically stated that he needed a floater as well as finishing ability. He has neither. Magic also specifically stated that this was the most important summer of Lonzo's life. I see no difference offensively between last year and his current game play. What has he done besides get bigger, and get a tattoo?[/quote]
How was he supposed to get all that done with the surgery? Did Magic make those comments before or after he knew he needed surgery? I mean his offense is ugly without a doubt, but harping on him for not doing something he literally couldn't do because he was injured is a little odd, no?
Assuming he's healthy, next summer is when he really needs to put in massive work. If he comes back after next summer with no improvements on O then we have a problem. |
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LakersPimp
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 2176
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| RG73 wrote: | [quote="Zillethai"
Those were all tasks for last summer. Magic specifically stated that he needed a floater as well as finishing ability. He has neither. Magic also specifically stated that this was the most important summer of Lonzo's life. I see no difference offensively between last year and his current game play. What has he done besides get bigger, and get a tattoo? |
How was he supposed to get all that done with the surgery? Did Magic make those comments before or after he knew he needed surgery? I mean his offense is ugly without a doubt, but harping on him for not doing something he literally couldn't do because he was injured is a little odd, no?
Assuming he's healthy, next summer is when he really needs to put in massive work. If he comes back after next summer with no improvements on O then we have a problem.[/quote]
Man...I wish you were my boss. You are extremely generous with the excuses. |
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methdxman
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Joined: 31 Jan 2002
Posts: 6879
Location: Los Angeles/Barcelona
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Would you guys swap for Shai Gilgeous-Alexander? He looks like a really nice player. Younger than Lonzo too. |
Clippers wouldn't. |
Oh yeah, for sure they wouldn’t. Was just curious if people here would. |
I wouldn't. That makes me sound like a homer, but at the same time, if/when Lonzo figures it out, I don't think it'll be close.
Shai OTOH, I struggled to evaluate all summer. It's difficult for me to trust that jumper, but dude is an underrated athlete. Tremendous body control. |
When Lonzo figures what out? You can't figure out a mamba mentality. And until he gets one, he's for sure gonna be a bust. There's no precedent for someone who was not a killer becoming a killer.
He just doesn't have it and gets too easily discouraged.
And now tweaking his ankle conveniently before going up against DeAaron Fox. He should be trying to play against him with one leg trying to embarrass. Can guarantee he's not gonna play against Sac or will ask for limited minutes. |
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methdxman
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Joined: 31 Jan 2002
Posts: 6879
Location: Los Angeles/Barcelona
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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| LakersPimp wrote: | | RG73 wrote: | [quote="Zillethai"
Those were all tasks for last summer. Magic specifically stated that he needed a floater as well as finishing ability. He has neither. Magic also specifically stated that this was the most important summer of Lonzo's life. I see no difference offensively between last year and his current game play. What has he done besides get bigger, and get a tattoo? |
How was he supposed to get all that done with the surgery? Did Magic make those comments before or after he knew he needed surgery? I mean his offense is ugly without a doubt, but harping on him for not doing something he literally couldn't do because he was injured is a little odd, no?
Assuming he's healthy, next summer is when he really needs to put in massive work. If he comes back after next summer with no improvements on O then we have a problem. |
Man...I wish you were my boss. You are extremely generous with the excuses.[/quote]
They’re pushing back the milestones because they don’t want to admit they were wrong all along about Lonzo. Lonzo has bust written all over him. |
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Nnamdi21
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Joined: 06 Mar 2009
Posts: 3715
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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| methdxman wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Would you guys swap for Shai Gilgeous-Alexander? He looks like a really nice player. Younger than Lonzo too. |
Clippers wouldn't. |
Oh yeah, for sure they wouldn’t. Was just curious if people here would. |
I wouldn't. That makes me sound like a homer, but at the same time, if/when Lonzo figures it out, I don't think it'll be close.
Shai OTOH, I struggled to evaluate all summer. It's difficult for me to trust that jumper, but dude is an underrated athlete. Tremendous body control. |
When Lonzo figures what out? You can't figure out a mamba mentality. And until he gets one, he's for sure gonna be a bust. There's no precedent for someone who was not a killer becoming a killer.
He just doesn't have it and gets too easily discouraged.
And now tweaking his ankle conveniently before going up against DeAaron Fox. He should be trying to play against him with one leg trying to embarrass. Can guarantee he's not gonna play against Sac or will ask for limited minutes. |
I just time traveled and Lonzo will play and we will win vs sac |
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