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drae
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Joined: 13 Nov 2018
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 Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:10 am Post subject: |
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| blackmamba08 wrote: | | I love Lonzo's defense. I am confident enough to say that he is already one of the best defenders in the league. |
He's going to be a star once he develops a jump shot ... and a lay up. I really like how Ingram's been blossoming lately into a pretty effective shot creator. They're so important to our defense, but it's hard carrying 2 guys on the floor who don't score. |
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lewis
Star Player
Joined: 23 Oct 2013
Posts: 1165
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:58 am Post subject: |
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Lonzo showed good defense, especially for a second year player, but he is not elite, let's be honest here.
https://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/1
We do need defense on this roster so he is a good fit, but he does lack a lot of fundamentals for a #2 pick even if you completely ignore his jump-shot: finishing around the rim, dribbling, cannot create his own shot, not effective as a pick and roll handler..etc..
He may get there, but it will be a long journey.
PS: I hate when he is forcing the pass to Mcgee and Chandler way to early on high pick rolls. He seems to know to play only with a pop type big. |
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PauPau
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Joined: 12 Jul 2018
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:11 am Post subject: |
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^^And that's the problem, that long journey can't be that long. He must be more than serviceable come next season or else it's pointless.
So unless those that see a star in Zo can guarantee, with a reasonable margin for error, that 2019 Lonzo will be a much better player than what we're seeing now we'd be wasting the final years of possibly the greatest basketball player in history.
Of course we want to be competitive after 5 years but the fact of the matter is we're on the clock. |
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LongBeachPoly
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Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16143
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:12 am Post subject: |
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| drae wrote: | | blackmamba08 wrote: | | I love Lonzo's defense. I am confident enough to say that he is already one of the best defenders in the league. |
He's going to be a star once he develops a jump shot ... and a lay up. I really like how Ingram's been blossoming lately into a pretty effective shot creator. They're so important to our defense, but it's hard carrying 2 guys on the floor who don't score. |
There are those that think Fox (who's already found his jumpshot and layup), would have no role on this Lakers team. That LeBron and Luke would just relegate him to standing in one corner for an entire game.
Yet, there are others like yourself who feel Lonzo's a jumpshot and layup away from becoming a star on this same team.
It's odd. |
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Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| drae wrote: | | He's going to be a star once he develops a jump shot ... and a lay up. |
Is that all? |
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LakersPimp
Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 2176
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | drae wrote: | | blackmamba08 wrote: | | I love Lonzo's defense. I am confident enough to say that he is already one of the best defenders in the league. |
He's going to be a star once he develops a jump shot ... and a lay up. I really like how Ingram's been blossoming lately into a pretty effective shot creator. They're so important to our defense, but it's hard carrying 2 guys on the floor who don't score. |
There are those that think Fox (who's already found his jumpshot and layup), would have no role on this Lakers team. That LeBron and Luke would just relegate him to standing in one corner for an entire game.
Yet, there are others like yourself who feel Lonzo's a jumpshot and layup away from becoming a star on this same team.
It's odd. |
totally agree...fox would have been the kyrie to lebron...plus he would give lebron an opportunity to be in the game off ball. I preferred Fox...but it is what it is. I hope Lonzo gets better. |
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The God Particle
Star Player
Joined: 01 May 2015
Posts: 2196
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfever714 wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | scooterp10 wrote: | | Fox has had a hot month though. |
I don't know how many games you think they play in a month, but Sacramento's played 25 games so far. That's 30% of an NBA season, or around 80% of a full NCAA season.
And in 25 games, he's had 4 bad games. That's pretty consistent. |
For Lonzo, it's the opposite. 26 games in, he's had like 4 good games. That's pretty consistent, too. |
Yeah, but haven't you heard, we're 6-1 when Lonzo plays 30+ minutes in a game.
Coincidence...I think not!
Simple - play the guy 30+ minutes damnit! He'd have so many more good games and we'd have so many more wins if they'd just play him 30 minutes! |
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eddiejonze
Star Player
Joined: 19 Dec 2013
Posts: 7228
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:02 am Post subject: |
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| LakersPimp wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | drae wrote: | | blackmamba08 wrote: | | I love Lonzo's defense. I am confident enough to say that he is already one of the best defenders in the league. |
He's going to be a star once he develops a jump shot ... and a lay up. I really like how Ingram's been blossoming lately into a pretty effective shot creator. They're so important to our defense, but it's hard carrying 2 guys on the floor who don't score. |
There are those that think Fox (who's already found his jumpshot and layup), would have no role on this Lakers team. That LeBron and Luke would just relegate him to standing in one corner for an entire game.
Yet, there are others like yourself who feel Lonzo's a jumpshot and layup away from becoming a star on this same team.
It's odd. |
totally agree...fox would have been the kyrie to lebron...plus he would give lebron an opportunity to be in the game off ball. I preferred Fox...but it is what it is. I hope Lonzo gets better. |
What's even odder is the constant drivel about Fox on a lonzo ball page.
At some point, it might suit you better, and be Easier if ya just went to some Kings fan board to save your sanity. See, Lonzo is a Laker, and Fox is not.
See, Maginka make the Lakers decisions, you do not.
Simple, amirite?
_________________
Creatures crawl in search of blood, To terrorize y'alls neighborhood. |
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LakersPimp
Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 2176
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:03 am Post subject: |
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| eddiejonze wrote: | | LakersPimp wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | drae wrote: | | blackmamba08 wrote: | | I love Lonzo's defense. I am confident enough to say that he is already one of the best defenders in the league. |
He's going to be a star once he develops a jump shot ... and a lay up. I really like how Ingram's been blossoming lately into a pretty effective shot creator. They're so important to our defense, but it's hard carrying 2 guys on the floor who don't score. |
There are those that think Fox (who's already found his jumpshot and layup), would have no role on this Lakers team. That LeBron and Luke would just relegate him to standing in one corner for an entire game.
Yet, there are others like yourself who feel Lonzo's a jumpshot and layup away from becoming a star on this same team.
It's odd. |
totally agree...fox would have been the kyrie to lebron...plus he would give lebron an opportunity to be in the game off ball. I preferred Fox...but it is what it is. I hope Lonzo gets better. |
What's even odder is the constant drivel about Fox on a lonzo ball page.
At some point, it might suit you better, and be Easier if ya just went to some Kings fan board to save your sanity. See, Lonzo is a Laker, and Fox is not.
See, Maginka make the Lakers decisions, you do not.
Simple, amirite? |
you seem a little upset Lavar |
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eddiejonze
Star Player
Joined: 19 Dec 2013
Posts: 7228
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| LakersPimp wrote: | | eddiejonze wrote: | | LakersPimp wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | drae wrote: | | blackmamba08 wrote: | | I love Lonzo's defense. I am confident enough to say that he is already one of the best defenders in the league. |
He's going to be a star once he develops a jump shot ... and a lay up. I really like how Ingram's been blossoming lately into a pretty effective shot creator. They're so important to our defense, but it's hard carrying 2 guys on the floor who don't score. |
There are those that think Fox (who's already found his jumpshot and layup), would have no role on this Lakers team. That LeBron and Luke would just relegate him to standing in one corner for an entire game.
Yet, there are others like yourself who feel Lonzo's a jumpshot and layup away from becoming a star on this same team.
It's odd. |
totally agree...fox would have been the kyrie to lebron...plus he would give lebron an opportunity to be in the game off ball. I preferred Fox...but it is what it is. I hope Lonzo gets better. |
What's even odder is the constant drivel about Fox on a lonzo ball page.
At some point, it might suit you better, and be Easier if ya just went to some Kings fan board to save your sanity. See, Lonzo is a Laker, and Fox is not.
See, Maginka make the Lakers decisions, you do not.
Simple, amirite? |
you seem a little upset Lavar |
and You seem pretty clueless Rupaul, but nice try.
_________________
Creatures crawl in search of blood, To terrorize y'alls neighborhood. |
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Christopher Walken
Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 Jul 2016
Posts: 811
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| eddiejonze wrote: | | LakersPimp wrote: | | eddiejonze wrote: | | LakersPimp wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | drae wrote: | | blackmamba08 wrote: | | I love Lonzo's defense. I am confident enough to say that he is already one of the best defenders in the league. |
He's going to be a star once he develops a jump shot ... and a lay up. I really like how Ingram's been blossoming lately into a pretty effective shot creator. They're so important to our defense, but it's hard carrying 2 guys on the floor who don't score. |
There are those that think Fox (who's already found his jumpshot and layup), would have no role on this Lakers team. That LeBron and Luke would just relegate him to standing in one corner for an entire game.
Yet, there are others like yourself who feel Lonzo's a jumpshot and layup away from becoming a star on this same team.
It's odd. |
totally agree...fox would have been the kyrie to lebron...plus he would give lebron an opportunity to be in the game off ball. I preferred Fox...but it is what it is. I hope Lonzo gets better. |
What's even odder is the constant drivel about Fox on a lonzo ball page.
At some point, it might suit you better, and be Easier if ya just went to some Kings fan board to save your sanity. See, Lonzo is a Laker, and Fox is not.
See, Maginka make the Lakers decisions, you do not.
Simple, amirite? |
you seem a little upset Lavar |
and You seem pretty clueless Rupaul, but nice try. |
_________________
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. |
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| For all the whining about Ingram “haters” and “trolls” in that thread at least he doesn’t have jackasses masquerading as fans who enjoy when he plays poorly. |
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ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:10 am Post subject: |
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I love Lonzo, he's been my avi here since day 1. However, I think the criticisms are fair game and with merit.
The main thing that really bugs me about Lonzo, is his floor, currently, is so low particularly on the offensive end. If his floor was good defense and a 10/5/5 type of line, I could live with that for now in his second season. |
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LongBeachPoly
Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16143
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| eddiejonze wrote: | | LakersPimp wrote: | | eddiejonze wrote: | | LakersPimp wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | drae wrote: | | blackmamba08 wrote: | | I love Lonzo's defense. I am confident enough to say that he is already one of the best defenders in the league. |
He's going to be a star once he develops a jump shot ... and a lay up. I really like how Ingram's been blossoming lately into a pretty effective shot creator. They're so important to our defense, but it's hard carrying 2 guys on the floor who don't score. |
There are those that think Fox (who's already found his jumpshot and layup), would have no role on this Lakers team. That LeBron and Luke would just relegate him to standing in one corner for an entire game.
Yet, there are others like yourself who feel Lonzo's a jumpshot and layup away from becoming a star on this same team.
It's odd. |
totally agree...fox would have been the kyrie to lebron...plus he would give lebron an opportunity to be in the game off ball. I preferred Fox...but it is what it is. I hope Lonzo gets better. |
What's even odder is the constant drivel about Fox on a lonzo ball page.
At some point, it might suit you better, and be Easier if ya just went to some Kings fan board to save your sanity. See, Lonzo is a Laker, and Fox is not.
See, Maginka make the Lakers decisions, you do not.
Simple, amirite? |
you seem a little upset Lavar |
and You seem pretty clueless Rupaul, but nice try. |
This seems like some kind of homophobic slur |
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Christopher Walken
Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 Jul 2016
Posts: 811
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:15 am Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | eddiejonze wrote: | | LakersPimp wrote: | | eddiejonze wrote: | | LakersPimp wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | drae wrote: | | blackmamba08 wrote: | | I love Lonzo's defense. I am confident enough to say that he is already one of the best defenders in the league. |
He's going to be a star once he develops a jump shot ... and a lay up. I really like how Ingram's been blossoming lately into a pretty effective shot creator. They're so important to our defense, but it's hard carrying 2 guys on the floor who don't score. |
There are those that think Fox (who's already found his jumpshot and layup), would have no role on this Lakers team. That LeBron and Luke would just relegate him to standing in one corner for an entire game.
Yet, there are others like yourself who feel Lonzo's a jumpshot and layup away from becoming a star on this same team.
It's odd. |
totally agree...fox would have been the kyrie to lebron...plus he would give lebron an opportunity to be in the game off ball. I preferred Fox...but it is what it is. I hope Lonzo gets better. |
What's even odder is the constant drivel about Fox on a lonzo ball page.
At some point, it might suit you better, and be Easier if ya just went to some Kings fan board to save your sanity. See, Lonzo is a Laker, and Fox is not.
See, Maginka make the Lakers decisions, you do not.
Simple, amirite? |
you seem a little upset Lavar |
and You seem pretty clueless Rupaul, but nice try. |
This seems like some kind of homophobic slur |
Why you gotta bring homophobia onto a D'aaron Fox thread?
_________________
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. |
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ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| Alright guys, let's not get collectively butthurt and spoil the Lonzo thread. |
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eddiejonze
Star Player
Joined: 19 Dec 2013
Posts: 7228
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | eddiejonze wrote: | | LakersPimp wrote: | | eddiejonze wrote: | | LakersPimp wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | drae wrote: | | blackmamba08 wrote: | | I love Lonzo's defense. I am confident enough to say that he is already one of the best defenders in the league. |
He's going to be a star once he develops a jump shot ... and a lay up. I really like how Ingram's been blossoming lately into a pretty effective shot creator. They're so important to our defense, but it's hard carrying 2 guys on the floor who don't score. |
There are those that think Fox (who's already found his jumpshot and layup), would have no role on this Lakers team. That LeBron and Luke would just relegate him to standing in one corner for an entire game.
Yet, there are others like yourself who feel Lonzo's a jumpshot and layup away from becoming a star on this same team.
It's odd. |
totally agree...fox would have been the kyrie to lebron...plus he would give lebron an opportunity to be in the game off ball. I preferred Fox...but it is what it is. I hope Lonzo gets better. |
What's even odder is the constant drivel about Fox on a lonzo ball page.
At some point, it might suit you better, and be Easier if ya just went to some Kings fan board to save your sanity. See, Lonzo is a Laker, and Fox is not.
See, Maginka make the Lakers decisions, you do not.
Simple, amirite? |
you seem a little upset Lavar |
and You seem pretty clueless Rupaul, but nice try. |
This seems like some kind of homophobic slur |
Yeah, the thing is I'm not up to date on popular culture so I don't know who or what "Lavar" meant... For some dumb reason, I thought Lavar was some famous drag Queen so I pulled out of my ol' noggin the only other famous drag queen I know.
_________________
Creatures crawl in search of blood, To terrorize y'alls neighborhood. |
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | I love Lonzo, he's been my avi here since day 1. However, I think the criticisms are fair game and with merit.
The main thing that really bugs me about Lonzo, is his floor, currently, is so low particularly on the offensive end. If his floor was good defense and a 10/5/5 type of line, I could live with that for now in his second season. |
He’s been disappointing offensively this year but I think many of us didn’t realize how much offseason surgery hindered his offseason. He has one bad weekend and I wouldn’t even say he played poorly against the Spurs although he didn’t play particularly well and posters come out of hiding to revel in his struggles. Criticism is more than fair, his shot has looked bad and his finishing has looked worse outside of a few situations. It would be easier to handle some of the criticism if it wasn’t from people who ignore what he does well and disappear during good stretches.
This is in response to your message but not directed at you just so you know. |
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Threatt_Level
Starting Rotation
Joined: 30 Jul 2014
Posts: 467
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| drae wrote: | | He's going to be a star once he develops a jump shot ... |
People said the same thing about Ricky Rubio. Never happened. Even if Lonzo wasn't that great at getting to the rim or hitting the midrange, he was supposed to be able to shoot it from deep. He's not even hitting wide open 3s now, so he has almost zero value on the offensive end, which is killing us. |
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Christopher Walken
Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 Jul 2016
Posts: 811
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Alright guys, let's not get collectively butthurt and spoil the Lonzo thread. |
Right? where's Longbeachpoly to complain about the use of the phrase "butthurt"?
_________________
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. |
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:25 am Post subject: |
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| Threatt_Level wrote: | | drae wrote: | | He's going to be a star once he develops a jump shot ... |
People said the same thing about Ricky Rubio. Never happened. Even if Lonzo wasn't that great at getting to the rim or hitting the midrange, he was supposed to be able to shoot it from deep. He's not even hitting wide open 3s now, so he has almost zero value on the offensive end, which is killing us. |
He killed them offensively against the Grizzlies in a blowout. That has not been the case over the course of the year. “Almost zero value on the offensive end” is a gross exaggeration. |
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ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | I love Lonzo, he's been my avi here since day 1. However, I think the criticisms are fair game and with merit.
The main thing that really bugs me about Lonzo, is his floor, currently, is so low particularly on the offensive end. If his floor was good defense and a 10/5/5 type of line, I could live with that for now in his second season. |
He’s been disappointing offensively this year but I think many of us didn’t realize how much offseason surgery hindered his offseason. He has one bad weekend and I wouldn’t even say he played poorly against the Spurs although he didn’t play particularly well and posters come out of hiding to revel in his struggles. Criticism is more than fair, his shot has looked bad and his finishing has looked worse outside of a few situations. It would be easier to handle some of the criticism if it wasn’t from people who ignore what he does well and disappear during good stretches.
This is in response to your message but not directed at you just so you know. |
I gotcha. Well, I wouldn't just say it's one bad weekend. In the 26 games he has played this year, he has 2 or fewer field goals made in 11 of them. That's nearly half of his games.
If you're going to play starter's minutes, you have to score more than 2 field goals a game every night. Sure, he's going to have those 2-11 type games from time to time, but it can't be nearly half the time. If he can raise his floor there some, I think most reasonable people will be satisfied with his performances. |
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | I love Lonzo, he's been my avi here since day 1. However, I think the criticisms are fair game and with merit.
The main thing that really bugs me about Lonzo, is his floor, currently, is so low particularly on the offensive end. If his floor was good defense and a 10/5/5 type of line, I could live with that for now in his second season. |
He’s been disappointing offensively this year but I think many of us didn’t realize how much offseason surgery hindered his offseason. He has one bad weekend and I wouldn’t even say he played poorly against the Spurs although he didn’t play particularly well and posters come out of hiding to revel in his struggles. Criticism is more than fair, his shot has looked bad and his finishing has looked worse outside of a few situations. It would be easier to handle some of the criticism if it wasn’t from people who ignore what he does well and disappear during good stretches.
This is in response to your message but not directed at you just so you know. |
I gotcha. Well, I wouldn't just say it's one bad weekend. In the 26 games he has played this year, he has 2 or fewer field goals made in 11 of them. That's nearly half of his games.
If you're going to play starter's minutes, you have to score more than 2 field goals a game every night. Sure, he's going to have those 2-11 type games from time to time, but it can't be nearly half the time. If he can raise his floor there some, I think most reasonable people will be satisfied with his performances. |
I hear you, he’s gotta score more although I think he contributes more offensively than many give him credit for even in some of those 2 fgm games. Regardless, my main annoyance is with the enjoyment people find in his game when he struggles. Criticism is one think but if you actually enjoy when a Lakers player struggles, you’re not a real fan, so stop acting like one. |
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The God Particle
Star Player
Joined: 01 May 2015
Posts: 2196
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| Threatt_Level wrote: | | drae wrote: | | He's going to be a star once he develops a jump shot ... |
People said the same thing about Ricky Rubio. Never happened. Even if Lonzo wasn't that great at getting to the rim or hitting the midrange, he was supposed to be able to shoot it from deep. He's not even hitting wide open 3s now, so he has almost zero value on the offensive end, which is killing us. |
Some folks scoff at comparing Lonzo to Rubio...but I think much more so than Jason Kidd, Rubio is the best comparison to Lonzo.
And if you track their first and second years in the league, they're just about identical, down to the god awful shooting (Ricky has always made his free throws though).
I've always thought Ricky's issues weren't his outside shot, it was his lack of shake/modern day ball handling that never put pressure on defenses. Couldn't get to the basket off the bounce and therefore never drew fouls and never got easy points at the FT line. Unfortunately, Lonzo makes Ricky look like he's James Harden at drawing fouls and getting to the FT line. Lonzo is getting to the FT line less than 1 time a game (this year)... think about that for a second... |
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Christopher Walken
Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 Jul 2016
Posts: 811
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:37 am Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | I love Lonzo, he's been my avi here since day 1. However, I think the criticisms are fair game and with merit.
The main thing that really bugs me about Lonzo, is his floor, currently, is so low particularly on the offensive end. If his floor was good defense and a 10/5/5 type of line, I could live with that for now in his second season. |
He’s been disappointing offensively this year but I think many of us didn’t realize how much offseason surgery hindered his offseason. He has one bad weekend and I wouldn’t even say he played poorly against the Spurs although he didn’t play particularly well and posters come out of hiding to revel in his struggles. Criticism is more than fair, his shot has looked bad and his finishing has looked worse outside of a few situations. It would be easier to handle some of the criticism if it wasn’t from people who ignore what he does well and disappear during good stretches.
This is in response to your message but not directed at you just so you know. |
I gotcha. Well, I wouldn't just say it's one bad weekend. In the 26 games he has played this year, he has 2 or fewer field goals made in 11 of them. That's nearly half of his games.
If you're going to play starter's minutes, you have to score more than 2 field goals a game every night. Sure, he's going to have those 2-11 type games from time to time, but it can't be nearly half the time. If he can raise his floor there some, I think most reasonable people will be satisfied with his performances. |
I hear you, he’s gotta score more although I think he contributes more offensively than many give him credit for even in some of those 2 fgm games. Regardless, my main annoyance is with the enjoyment people find in his game when he struggles. Criticism is one think but if you actually enjoy when a Lakers player struggles, you’re not a real fan, so stop acting like one. |
Man, that's a great point.
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We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. |
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