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ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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 Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: |
I think you’re determined to take a cynical position on him so I’m not gonna dive too deep into this. What I will say is unrealized potential and fit are completely unrelated concepts. He may not realize his potential but I’d say he’s already proven to be a fit next to Bron and he’s already a positive contributor who can impact a game without needing the basketball. That makes him valuable and a good fit next to stars regardless of who they are. |
This is the opposite of what others are saying. Others are saying it's the system/style/LeBron that's holding him back.
They're saying he'd be flourishing right now if he were in Sacramento w/o having to share the ball with LeBron and being surrounded by more shooters.
There saying he needs more scorers/shooters around him to be impactful on offense. |
Do I have to agree with everything that other posters say?
His stats would undoubtedly be better if he and Fox were swapped. And Fox’s would be worse. I don’t even think that’s a debatable statement but it doesn’t mean he doesn’t fit with LeBron. The context of those stats matter. |
Nope.
But any kind of rational basketball analysis shouldn't be complete opposites of each other either.
Then it just becomes people throwing out crazy ideas.
Are people watching the same game? How can you get some people saying Lonzo fits great with LeBron while others are claiming that he doesn't fit with LeBron at all. |
And literally no one saying Kuzma doesn’t fit with Lebron.
Hmmm. |
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Joe Pesci
Star Player
Joined: 15 Oct 2017
Posts: 3885
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | Dribbling, driving, creating, pull-up jumpers, catch and shoot jumpers, floaters, probing the defense, command/confidence, using his body to finish, finishing in traffic, aggressiveness, free throw shooting, over passing, go-to moves ... he’s got a lot of holes my friend.
I’m only stating the obvious. |
Thanks for the list, my enemy. |
I still love his game though. I’m really just defending those posters who are sour on Ball’s potential. Although I think he’s going to win a lot of rings as a championship role player, you can’t really hate on guys who have a hard time seeing stardom ... because of all his holes.
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A creative scorer, a wing defender, and a shooter. |
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: |
I think you’re determined to take a cynical position on him so I’m not gonna dive too deep into this. What I will say is unrealized potential and fit are completely unrelated concepts. He may not realize his potential but I’d say he’s already proven to be a fit next to Bron and he’s already a positive contributor who can impact a game without needing the basketball. That makes him valuable and a good fit next to stars regardless of who they are. |
This is the opposite of what others are saying. Others are saying it's the system/style/LeBron that's holding him back.
They're saying he'd be flourishing right now if he were in Sacramento w/o having to share the ball with LeBron and being surrounded by more shooters.
There saying he needs more scorers/shooters around him to be impactful on offense. |
Do I have to agree with everything that other posters say?
His stats would undoubtedly be better if he and Fox were swapped. And Fox’s would be worse. I don’t even think that’s a debatable statement but it doesn’t mean he doesn’t fit with LeBron. The context of those stats matter. |
Nope.
But any kind of rational basketball analysis shouldn't be complete opposites of each other either.
Then it just becomes people throwing out crazy ideas.
Are people watching the same game? How can you get some people saying Lonzo fits great with LeBron while others are claiming that he doesn't fit with LeBron at all. |
So because I disagree about his fit with LeBron my opinion is a crazy idea? So what would a not crazy idea be? That concept is ridiculous. |
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Cutheon
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2009
Posts: 12161
Location: Bay Area
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| That missed lay up was peak-Zo. I love the dude, I have the receipts, but WOW. |
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waterman40
Star Player
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Posts: 6284
Location: Central Coast
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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Most of these young 1 and done players we have gotten out of college have had their issues, and not been a clear out star, despite their high draft selection. And the odds are pretty low anyway, somewhere around 15-20 percent that any of these high lottery picks ever become an all-star.
DLO was on-again off-again, and perhaps if he hadn't sold our Nick Young, and had been more respectful with Magic, we would still have him. But he was also the cost of getting rid of Mozgov, so DLO's issues were significant besides his raw playing ability.
Randle was a 7th pick, so not quite as high. He progressed slowly, but by his last year had improved significantly. Mostly, I think his agent wanted that 2 year player option deal, and we wouldn't do it, because we want offseason flexibility. If Randle had tanked or gotten seriously injured this year, and had exercised his option, we would have been stuck. So Randle I think is more of a salary structure issue for both sides, not solely his lack of outside shooting.
Ingram is next inline, and he does a lot of things well, and looked good as a primary option on a losing team. Enter Lebron and his need for the ball, the switch to playing winning basketball, and he is out of position. His lack of a jumper hurts, and he is getting a lot of criticism on our board. I think he is at where Randle was two years ago, with the hindrance that he has to improve in ways he wasn't designed for.
Ball, with still a couple years on his contract, is like Ingram, good in may areas, not a good shooter. Ball's primary advantage over BI is that Ball is not ball-dominant and still contributes pretty well for being a 9 ppg scorer. Give it another year, and we will see where he is at.
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LAKERS 2019-2020: NBA World Champions! |
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OCWA
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 3660
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Proof positive that it is mental. Steve Sax. |
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BigBoi
Star Player
Joined: 13 May 2012
Posts: 3115
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Trade him before his value plummets, I’ll take Kemba Walker add a couple of 1st to sweeten the deal |
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PRLakeShow
Franchise Player
Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 10460
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Was that the most embarrassing missed open layup of all time? |
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chrisca91
Star Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2013
Posts: 3446
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| BigBoi wrote: | | Trade him before his value plummets, I’ll take Kemba Walker add a couple of 1st to sweeten the deal |
You think anyone wants Lonzo? LOL. Dude is worth pennies |
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Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | He may not realize his potential but I’d say he’s already proven to be a fit next to Bron and he’s already a positive contributor who can impact a game without needing the basketball. |
Actually, one of my biggest disappointments this year is that Ball hasn't been a particularly good fit with Lebron. I thought they would have a lot more synergy. That may yet come. The lineup data shows that they are just okay together, which matches the eyeball test for me. |
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LandsbergerRules
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 11197
Location: The Other Perspective
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| OCWA wrote: | | Proof positive that it is mental. Steve Sax. |
It's absolutely mental. The guy wasn't blowing/running away from wide open layups at UCLA. I doubt he was doing it in high school either. Just like how his free throws have plummeted in the pros. He's shook by the bright spotlight of being in the NBA. Simple as that.
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"Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
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OCWA
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 3660
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| LandsbergerRules wrote: | | OCWA wrote: | | Proof positive that it is mental. Steve Sax. |
It's absolutely mental. The guy wasn't blowing/running away from wide open layups at UCLA. I doubt he was doing it in high school either. Just like how his free throws have plummeted in the pros. He's shook by the bright spotlight of being in the NBA. Simple as that. |
Hopefully the FO is smart enough to protect their investment by bringing in a sports psychologist. Many professionals have been helped by them. |
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twisted
Star Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2012
Posts: 1265
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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That blown layup was epic 
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“God knew they couldn’t be on this Earth without each other. He had to bring them home to have them together.” – Vanessa Bryant |
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LongBeachPoly
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Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16137
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: |
I think you’re determined to take a cynical position on him so I’m not gonna dive too deep into this. What I will say is unrealized potential and fit are completely unrelated concepts. He may not realize his potential but I’d say he’s already proven to be a fit next to Bron and he’s already a positive contributor who can impact a game without needing the basketball. That makes him valuable and a good fit next to stars regardless of who they are. |
This is the opposite of what others are saying. Others are saying it's the system/style/LeBron that's holding him back.
They're saying he'd be flourishing right now if he were in Sacramento w/o having to share the ball with LeBron and being surrounded by more shooters.
There saying he needs more scorers/shooters around him to be impactful on offense. |
Do I have to agree with everything that other posters say?
His stats would undoubtedly be better if he and Fox were swapped. And Fox’s would be worse. I don’t even think that’s a debatable statement but it doesn’t mean he doesn’t fit with LeBron. The context of those stats matter. |
Nope.
But any kind of rational basketball analysis shouldn't be complete opposites of each other either.
Then it just becomes people throwing out crazy ideas.
Are people watching the same game? How can you get some people saying Lonzo fits great with LeBron while others are claiming that he doesn't fit with LeBron at all. |
So because I disagree about his fit with LeBron my opinion is a crazy idea? So what would a not crazy idea be? That concept is ridiculous. |
Nope, not talking about you. Talking in general. Any rational analyses should not come to complete opposite conclusions. If it does, then that means there's some crazy ideas being thrown around.
Not calling you crazy, just talking in general.
This would be like if you took 2 scouts and one scout thinks a guy should be a no. 1 pick and another scout thinks that guy will be undrafted. Polar opposite opinions. One of the opinions is illogical. Someone's not watching the same game.
If we're talking about how Lonzo fits with LeBron and one side thinks he fits great and another side thinks there's no fit at all, then those are polar opposite opinions. It's not rational to come up with polar opposite opinions. There's some crazy ideas being thrown around. We can't have Lonzo being a great fit with LeBron yet not be a fit at all. |
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Jesusdelonla
Franchise Player
Joined: 24 Jan 2018
Posts: 15430
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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No matter how much talent u have, if u don't try then it's all (bleep).
Why we have to talk about effort for a 2nd year player? |
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bandiger
Franchise Player
Joined: 02 Apr 2014
Posts: 12555
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| twisted wrote: | | That blown layup was epic |
Dude needs a psychologist or a therapist. (bleep) do something  |
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2019
Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Dec 2014
Posts: 10804
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| BigBoi wrote: | | Trade him before his value plummets, I’ll take Kemba Walker add a couple of 1st to sweeten the deal |
lose max space opportunity?
I would LOVE Kemba on this team.. especially if we had enough money for Middleton after. |
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JM
Star Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 1281
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| bandiger wrote: | | twisted wrote: | | That blown layup was epic |
Dude needs a psychologist or a therapist. (bleep) do something |
Boy, you would think he would have a notion of angles due to his passing abilit
Y.. but, wow, that bank attempt was awful. He has regressed so much since UCLA on his shooting. His D and playmakimg is ok. |
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tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17876
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Lonzo's defense still gives me life |
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tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17876
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| why |
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€H£M£$TR¥
Star Player
Joined: 03 Apr 2017
Posts: 3782
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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Transcendence
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DEAR BASKETBALL |
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The Juggernaut
Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 4572
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| He needs to keep trying to dunk everything his finesse touch is traaashh |
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2019
Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Dec 2014
Posts: 10804
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| The Juggernaut wrote: | | He needs to keep trying to dunk everything his finesse touch is traaashh |
Big Ballers don't finesse |
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tripleoch0
Starting Rotation
Joined: 30 Nov 2012
Posts: 541
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BigBoi
Star Player
Joined: 13 May 2012
Posts: 3115
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| €H£M£$TR¥ wrote: | | Transcendence |
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