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lordtrapula
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 Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:34 am Post subject: |
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| His offense was so rocky in this game but oh man in the final 3 minutes his defense was insane. |
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Vanquish
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:34 am Post subject: |
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| Joe Pesci wrote: | | MJST wrote: | When people go "why is Lonzo so scared" I wonder if they only want to talk about his first half (offensively) and completely ignore how he came on offensively in the 3rd, played aggressively and tried to hammer home a putback rebound at the end.
Nope they want to focus on the first half and call him scared. Guess they were just waiting to type it out and decide to ignore everything else, just like those same people ignored the defensive stats posted up there he had this game. |
He never called him scared, but be fair. He most definitely is scared at there on the basketball court. Truth is truth.
I respect Ball’s unique style of play a great deal. Right now, he’s a really great utility player with oodles of room to grow into more, but the truth is he DOES play scared at times. It is quite palpable.
No need for emotions, just truth. His defense is awesome, elite even. He passes really well. He’s fast and can really push the ball ... but he plays scared a lot.
He can be elite in some areas and still play scared. The two are not mutually exclusive. |
This is really one thing Ball needs to learn from Kuzma. Kuz doesn't give a freak on whether he has missed zero shots or a hundred prior. If he's open, Kuz is taking it with the confidence that he's going to make the shot |
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tox
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:35 am Post subject: |
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| saetarubia wrote: | | Second play is for those who think ZO is effective only in transition plays. His BB IQ is too good not to be complete playmaker as he gains experience. |
I thought Zo had some nice passes in the half court with LeBron on the bench. The problem is always that if you can't shoot or score it, it severely limits your available passing angles. But when they're there I generally trust Ball to make the right play. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:35 am Post subject: |
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| Joe Pesci wrote: | | MJST wrote: | When people go "why is Lonzo so scared" I wonder if they only want to talk about his first half (offensively) and completely ignore how he came on offensively in the 3rd, played aggressively and tried to hammer home a putback rebound at the end.
Nope they want to focus on the first half and call him scared. Guess they were just waiting to type it out and decide to ignore everything else, just like those same people ignored the defensive stats posted up there he had this game. |
I never called him scared, but be fair. He most definitely is scared at there on the basketball court. Truth is truth.
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And you base this on what substantial evidence?
He's taking 4-5 more FGA a game since playing more aggressive, keeps shooting even if he's 2-8, and stays locked in on both sides of the ball and isn't passing up wide open threes anymore, regardless of whether his shot is on or not, and has said he's going to keep shooting and taking the open shot.
So where does "scared" come into play there? Maybe the first 15-17 games of the season you could have an argument for that, but that was 11 games ago and he's been aggressive since, whether his shot has fallen or not.
So why is he "most definitely scared" on the basketball court?
| Vanquish wrote: |
This is really one thing Ball needs to learn from Kuzma. Kuz doesn't give a freak on whether he has missed zero shots or a hundred prior. If he's open, Kuz is taking it with the confidence that he's going to make the shot |
So essentially what Lonzo's been doing the past 11 games?
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AirTupac
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:51 am Post subject: |
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| Bro if you are telling me he is not scared when he has a chance to shoot / drive in. You must not have been around basketball a long time. Its obvious as daylight. |
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Joe Pesci
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:05 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | | MJST wrote: | When people go "why is Lonzo so scared" I wonder if they only want to talk about his first half (offensively) and completely ignore how he came on offensively in the 3rd, played aggressively and tried to hammer home a putback rebound at the end.
Nope they want to focus on the first half and call him scared. Guess they were just waiting to type it out and decide to ignore everything else, just like those same people ignored the defensive stats posted up there he had this game. |
I never called him scared, but be fair. He most definitely is scared at there on the basketball court. Truth is truth.
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And you base this on what substantial evidence?
He's taking 4-5 more FGA a game since playing more aggressive, keeps shooting even if he's 2-8, and stays locked in on both sides of the ball and isn't passing up wide open threes anymore, regardless of whether his shot is on or not, and has said he's going to keep shooting and taking the open shot.
So where does "scared" come into play there? Maybe the first 15-17 games of the season you could have an argument for that, but that was 11 games ago and he's been aggressive since, whether his shot has fallen or not.
So why is he "most definitely scared" on the basketball court?
| Vanquish wrote: |
This is really one thing Ball needs to learn from Kuzma. Kuz doesn't give a freak on whether he has missed zero shots or a hundred prior. If he's open, Kuz is taking it with the confidence that he's going to make the shot |
So essentially what Lonzo's been doing the past 11 games? |
Come on dude. You’re making yourself look bad when you’re not intellectually honest and real.
As I said before, your points about Ball’s game are quite valid. I acknowledge the validity of pretty much ALL your sentiments except one ...
He is oftentimes scared to shoot. Ray Charles can see it dude, and if you can’t, you’re not being real or honest.
Let’s be clear: I’m not saying he’s always scared, but, MOST DEFINITELY, he is scared “often” on offense.
Gary Payton was at one time scared to consistently shoot, so was Kidd and Pippen and LeBron James.
Ball is no different, and it won’t kill you or your overall argument to simply admit the obvious.
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Vanquish
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:20 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: |
| Vanquish wrote: |
This is really one thing Ball needs to learn from Kuzma. Kuz doesn't give a freak on whether he has missed zero shots or a hundred prior. If he's open, Kuz is taking it with the confidence that he's going to make the shot |
So essentially what Lonzo's been doing the past 11 games? |
All, I can say for analytics like FGA is that there are lies, damn lies and statistics as my professor used to say.
Yes Lonzo has been taking a lot of shots, but on the eye test he has definitely been hesitating on pulling his release on a lot of them. It's almost like he gets the ball and then thinks oh geez the correct play is for me to shoot, proceeds to shoot then of course misses. I think others see it as well. Kuz does not do that, if the ball goes to his hands and he's open - and unfortunately even sometimes when he's not - it's going up automatically. That's confidence.
Lonzo is also almost trying too hard to make that extra pass. There were plays where he was in the best position to take it strong to the hole and yet he chose to make the fancy play.
Last edited by Vanquish on Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:33 am; edited 1 time in total |
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MJST
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:27 am Post subject: |
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| Joe Pesci wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | | MJST wrote: | When people go "why is Lonzo so scared" I wonder if they only want to talk about his first half (offensively) and completely ignore how he came on offensively in the 3rd, played aggressively and tried to hammer home a putback rebound at the end.
Nope they want to focus on the first half and call him scared. Guess they were just waiting to type it out and decide to ignore everything else, just like those same people ignored the defensive stats posted up there he had this game. |
I never called him scared, but be fair. He most definitely is scared at there on the basketball court. Truth is truth.
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And you base this on what substantial evidence?
He's taking 4-5 more FGA a game since playing more aggressive, keeps shooting even if he's 2-8, and stays locked in on both sides of the ball and isn't passing up wide open threes anymore, regardless of whether his shot is on or not, and has said he's going to keep shooting and taking the open shot.
So where does "scared" come into play there? Maybe the first 15-17 games of the season you could have an argument for that, but that was 11 games ago and he's been aggressive since, whether his shot has fallen or not.
So why is he "most definitely scared" on the basketball court?
| Vanquish wrote: |
This is really one thing Ball needs to learn from Kuzma. Kuz doesn't give a freak on whether he has missed zero shots or a hundred prior. If he's open, Kuz is taking it with the confidence that he's going to make the shot |
So essentially what Lonzo's been doing the past 11 games? |
Come on dude. You’re making yourself look bad when you’re not intellectually honest and real.
As I said before, your points about Ball’s game are quite valid. I acknowledge the validity of pretty much ALL your sentiments except one ...
He is oftentimes scared to shoot. Ray Charles can see it dude, and if you can’t, you’re not being real or honest.
Let’s be clear: I’m not saying he’s always scared, but, MOST DEFINITELY, he is scared “often” on offense.
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Then explain his 4-5 FGA increase over the last 11 games.
Again, your argument is only valid for the first 17 or so games. the last 11 he's been aggressive and increased his FGA by 4-5 a game.
So again, unless you haven't been watching his increase in FGA, I can't see how you'd still hold onto that "he's scared most of the time on offense" stuff.
If that was the case he wouldn't be shooting 4-5 more FGA a game in his last 11.
And in his last 5 games he's shooting 5 FGA more than he did last month's average. If you aren't noticing the progression in his aggression then Idk what to tell you.
Maybe a more valid argument would be "The first part of the season he looked scared on offense, but in the last 11 we've seen quite an increase in his FGA, let's hope it remains consistent and he doesn't fall back into old habits where he seems scared on offense a majority of the time".
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scooterp10
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:49 am Post subject: |
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| Vanquish wrote: | After seeing how Lonzo and Ingram are struggling, I am wondering if the nba is underrating the preparation - both mental and physical - that college gives to players.
It seems the lakers at least had not much luck with our one and done phenoms. High draft picks like Dlo, BI and Lonzo. Even Randel took a pretty long time to put it together, mostly in his 4th year.
Yet our 3 to 4 year college guys like Kuz and Hart are fitting in extremely well and contributing almost immediately.
In the future, maybe we should let our young picks spend some time in the G league before cementing their jump to the nba? Perhaps having a transition period would be better for their development |
The problem is the lack of patience with these kids. Julius last year is the same age and Kyle this year. Development takes time and very few kids show up and dominate. Most are going to take until year 3 or 4 to show the consistency needed to make an All Star team. |
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LandsbergerRules
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:02 am Post subject: |
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| miggz23 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Lonzo Ball Final Defensive Stats
0-4 Wade
3-9 Dragic
1-3 Winslow
0-1 Richardson
0-1 Johnson
1-1 McGruder
3 Steals, 2 Blocks
Held Heat players to 5-19 (26.31%) |
I'm fine with that... He can be our Tony Allen/Anthony Roberson with way better playmaking skills right now. |
And as much trouble as he's had, Zo's a better shooter than Tony and Andre at least. 
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:02 am Post subject: |
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| OCWA wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | OCWA wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | OCWA wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | AirTupac wrote: | | why is he so scared |
His confidence is at rock bottom right now and I don't know what we can do to get it back up. Maybe hire Dr. Phil? |
Phil Jackson regularly used sports psychologists with his teams. Phil Jackson was also renowned for successfully integrating "head cases" into his teams. If the FO hasn't contacted a sports psychologist regarding Lonzo then they are shirking their duties and not properly protecting an important investment. |
Umm, you sure you have your facts straight? What exactly are you talking about or suggesting?
Are you talking about psychologist George Mumford whom Phil Jackson used to bring in to talk to the entire team about meditation and how to block out distractions?
Here's what Bynum said about him: "He just talked a lot about mindfulness and not allowing outside things to distract you. Train your mind to keep coming back to the center."
Or are you talking about the Lakers actually sending Lonzo to see an actual psychologist?
It's one thing to have a sports psychologist come and talk to the entire team, it's another thing to bring in a psychologist to work with ONE player. |
Yes, Mumford was a group thing, but organizations and players have successfully employed psychologists in the past. Probably more than we know considering the stigma attached to mental health issues.
If Lonzo was a shooting specialist that developed the yips/a block that would be one thing, but a talented player that has a confidence deficiency is another thing and a competent FO would be negligent if they didn't attempt to address such an issue with an expert in the field. |
These seem like wild accusations.
Lonzo's played 1 season and 26 games or so and you're saying the Lakers are negligent if they haven't brought in a psychologist for Lonzo? |
I would think/hope it would be normal for such organizations to use/have mental health professionals. The mind is as important as the body and large sums of money are being invested in these employees. |
So you're saying the team has mental health professionals that they work with and anyone they see missing shots, they send to this mental health professional?
So, does that include Svi cuz he's been missing shots all year? Do they send him to this mental health professional as well? Who determines who gets sent? Magic? With his no college degree? Pelinka? |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:07 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | Then explain his 4-5 FGA increase over the last 11 games. |
Interesting, cuz Rondo happened to break his hand 13 games ago
| Quote: | | Again, your argument is only valid for the first 17 or so games. the last 11 he's been aggressive and increased his FGA by 4-5 a game. |
Now, regarding this 4-5 increase in fga the last 11 games, what stats are you going with? I'm using espn.
Last 11 games = 109 fga (which comes out to 9.9 fga). His season avg 8.5 fga. Where are you getting this 4-5 fga increase from? Again, I'm using espn, what are you using?
| Quote: | | And in his last 5 games he's shooting 5 FGA more than he did last month's average. |
Last 5 games, he's avg 11.6 fga. Last month, he avg 7.6.
Again, your math is slightly off?
Also, last month, he avg 26.4 minutes
Last 5 games, he avg 33.6 minutes |
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GonzagaAlum
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:48 am Post subject: |
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Lonzo absolutely has FT and layup yips. FT a lot of guys get. Heck Shaq had them at times. The layup yips need to go away though. He needs Hart and or even Wade to teach him how to play by the rim.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:51 am Post subject: |
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This is year 2 for Lonzo who also had knee surgery this summer.
Once he learns that he has ups, a stronger upper body, I expect him to finish better. Seemed to have never depended on finishing against traffic in high school/college. But in the NBA, you don't have that luxury.
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PRLakeShow
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:53 am Post subject: |
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| At least he can dunk guys... |
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PRLakeShow
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:55 am Post subject: |
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| Real question though, who's worse at converting layups? Fisher or Lonzo? |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:56 am Post subject: |
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| PRLakeShow wrote: | | At least he can dunk guys... |
Just needs to do that instead of layups...but then the FTs...
I think it's a skill that he has never had to have with the way he grew up playing ball. He clearly doesn't like contact going up but he has the ups for sure.
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kfkilla
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| AirTupac wrote: | | Bro if you are telling me he is not scared when he has a chance to shoot / drive in. You must not have been around basketball a long time. Its obvious as daylight. |
Truth! I can’t believe people would even argue against it. People really asking for proof of another person being scared? We’ve gone off the deep end. Bro look at the dudes eyes. He is so afraid of pissing off Lebron that he almost exclusively looks for him when he grabs a rebound. No Lonzo of last year pushing. In the half court when he actually makes a 3 and the camera shows him he’s taking a deep breath as a sign of relief.
I’m not sure what other proof there is other than body language. And if homies are going to not allow that in this court of law then sorry we don’t have his heart rate patterns or sweat gland function patterns or whatever the heck proof of being scared is other than what is painfully obvious. |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:16 am Post subject: |
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| kfkilla wrote: | | AirTupac wrote: | | Bro if you are telling me he is not scared when he has a chance to shoot / drive in. You must not have been around basketball a long time. Its obvious as daylight. |
Truth! I can’t believe people would even argue against it. People really asking for proof of another person being scared? We’ve gone off the deep end. Bro look at the dudes eyes. He is so afraid of pissing off Lebron that he almost exclusively looks for him when he grabs a rebound. No Lonzo of last year pushing. In the half court when he actually makes a 3 and the camera shows him he’s taking a deep breath as a sign of relief.
I’m not sure what other proof there is other than body language. And if homies are going to not allow that in this court of law then sorry we don’t have his heart rate patterns or sweat gland function patterns or whatever the heck proof of being scared is other than what is painfully obvious. |
LG lawyers - Lonzo, were you scared to shoot the ball?
Lonzo - You wanna know?
LG lawyers - I want the truth
Lonzo - you can't handle the truth!
LG lawyers - were you scared to shoot the ball?
Lonzo - YOU'RE DAMN RIGHT I WAS SCARED TO SHOOT THE BALL!!
Magic - get this guy out of here
Lonzo - (lunging at LG lawyers) You freaking people. You don't understand how to play with LeBron. All you did was weaken Laker Nation today.
Last edited by LongBeachPoly on Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:19 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Fortysixn2
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:17 am Post subject: |
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Lonzo is very obviously nervous offensively with anything that doesn’t have so to with dunking and shooting 3s. Good news is that he’s very good defensively, his passing is nice and the things he sucks at are fixable.
Good news is that he’s only played 79 games in his career, looks to be healthy and you can tell it bothers him...which is a great sign. If he was 100 games in and he was celebrating every made shot and playing no D I’d be concerned. He’s a smart dude who’s into his own head a bit much, when he figures it all out he’ll be scary. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | kfkilla wrote: | | AirTupac wrote: | | Bro if you are telling me he is not scared when he has a chance to shoot / drive in. You must not have been around basketball a long time. Its obvious as daylight. |
Truth! I can’t believe people would even argue against it. People really asking for proof of another person being scared? We’ve gone off the deep end. Bro look at the dudes eyes. He is so afraid of pissing off Lebron that he almost exclusively looks for him when he grabs a rebound. No Lonzo of last year pushing. In the half court when he actually makes a 3 and the camera shows him he’s taking a deep breath as a sign of relief.
I’m not sure what other proof there is other than body language. And if homies are going to not allow that in this court of law then sorry we don’t have his heart rate patterns or sweat gland function patterns or whatever the heck proof of being scared is other than what is painfully obvious. |
LG lawyers - Lonzo, were you scared to shoot the ball?
Lonzo - You wanna know?
LG lawyers - I want the truth
Lonzo - you can't handle the truth!
LG lawyers - were you scared to shoot the ball?
Lonzo - YOU'RE DAMN RIGHT I WAS SCARED TO SHOOT THE BALL!!
Magic - get this guy out of here
Lonzo - (lunging at LG lawyers) You freaking people. You don't understand how to play with LeBron. All you did was weaken Laker Nation today. |
 I love that movie.
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:04 am Post subject: |
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| Despite a few terrible shaqtin moments I actually thought he played pretty well last night. Rondo must be rubbing off on him as he was directing players a lot against that zone and on defense. Got KCP an open three by telling him just to move from the corner to the wing and setting a screen. That’s the type of PG stuff that goes unnoticed. Now start making your damn layups. |
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LakerSD
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:04 am Post subject: |
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Imo this is fair in terms of where Lonzo is at right now...
| Quote: | Lonzo Ball is the either the best horrible player or worst great player I've ever seen.
I don't recall a player ever being this good and bad at the same time. |
https://twitter.com/mario_morgan/status/1072377110239604736?s=21 |
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PRLakeShow
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | Despite a few terrible shaqtin moments I actually thought he played pretty well last night. Rondo must be rubbing off on him as he was directing players a lot against that zone and on defense. Got KCP an open three by telling him just to move from the corner to the wing and setting a screen. That’s the type of PG stuff that goes unnoticed. Now start making your damn layups. |
I noticed that. He was finding holes in the zone defense. |
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Vanquish
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Location: London
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: |
So you're saying the team has mental health professionals that they work with and anyone they see missing shots, they send to this mental health professional?
So, does that include Svi cuz he's been missing shots all year? Do they send him to this mental health professional as well? Who determines who gets sent? Magic? With his no college degree? Pelinka? |
I get what the OP is saying although I would have expressed it differently. Lest anyone forget the player formally known as Ron Artest did credit his sports psychologist for getting him focused enough to win a championship.
The term mental health might imply that there's something wrong with Lonzo. This, I disagree with. Lonzo is fine both mentally and physically as far as I can tell watching him on TV. However, even healthy athletes benefit from having sessions with sports psychologists centred around improving their focus and keeping any unnecessary anxiety/nervousness in check. I would think seeing a sports psychologist is the mental equivalent of taking vitamins to help the body.
ETA: Phil did have his Zen sessions too to get his teams ready. Mental preparation is not that unusual.
Last edited by Vanquish on Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
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