OFFICIAL LONZO BALL THREAD
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:18 am    Post subject:

Vanquish wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:


So you're saying the team has mental health professionals that they work with and anyone they see missing shots, they send to this mental health professional?

So, does that include Svi cuz he's been missing shots all year? Do they send him to this mental health professional as well? Who determines who gets sent? Magic? With his no college degree? Pelinka?


I get what the OP is saying although I would have expressed it differently. Lest anyone forget the player formally known as Ron Artest did credit his sports psychologist for getting him focused enough to win a championship.

The term mental health might imply that there's something wrong with Lonzo. This, I disagree with. Lonzo is fine both mentally and physically as far as I can tell watching him on TV. However, even healthy athletes benefit from having sessions with sports psychologists centred around improving their focus and keeping any unnecessary anxiety/nervousness in check. I would think seeing a sports psychologist is the mental equivalent of taking vitamins to help the body.


It's different if a player seeks out the help of a sports psychologist than it is for a team to tell a player to go see one. If a "sports psychologist is the mental equivalent of taking vitamins to help the body" then everyone on the team should be seeing one, not just Lonzo.

A sports psychologist might be beneficial for Lonzo - but it shouldn't be the team's decision whether he needs one or not. And saying that they'd be negligent if they didn't provide him with one - is a ridiculous statement.


Last edited by LongBeachPoly on Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:21 am    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
Imo this is fair in terms of where Lonzo is at right now...

Quote:
Lonzo Ball is the either the best horrible player or worst great player I've ever seen.

I don't recall a player ever being this good and bad at the same time.


https://twitter.com/mario_morgan/status/1072377110239604736?s=21


Wow. So accurate. Luckily the thing he needs to work on are "simple." I don't even think they're tangible things that need to improve, but simply just his scoring instincts; when to take the shot, not blowing open layups because you're second guessing on whether you should shoot or pass, etc.
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Vanquish
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:22 am    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Vanquish wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:


So you're saying the team has mental health professionals that they work with and anyone they see missing shots, they send to this mental health professional?

So, does that include Svi cuz he's been missing shots all year? Do they send him to this mental health professional as well? Who determines who gets sent? Magic? With his no college degree? Pelinka?


I get what the OP is saying although I would have expressed it differently. Lest anyone forget the player formally known as Ron Artest did credit his sports psychologist for getting him focused enough to win a championship.

The term mental health might imply that there's something wrong with Lonzo. This, I disagree with. Lonzo is fine both mentally and physically as far as I can tell watching him on TV. However, even healthy athletes benefit from having sessions with sports psychologists centred around improving their focus and keeping any unnecessary anxiety/nervousness in check. I would think seeing a sports psychologist is the mental equivalent of taking vitamins to help the body.


It's different if a player seeks out the help of a sports psychologist than it is for a team to tell a player to go see one. If a "sports psychologist is the mental equivalent of taking vitamins to help the body" then everyone on the team should be seeing one, not just Lonzo.


I would agree actually. Everyone should have mental preparation. Phil had his Zen Sessions with his teams and all that got him was a bucketful of championships.

I still say its just a question of terminology. Coaches have been doing this for years for the entire team. Sports psychology is just a more scientific approach to a pretty usual practice. Mindfulness meditation is pretty useful for high stress/quick reacting professions such as sports. I wouldn't be surprised if many top atheletes actually employ it.


Last edited by Vanquish on Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:27 am; edited 3 times in total
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:22 am    Post subject:

Lonzo isn't playing his best and we are still winning. Just imagine once Lonzo figures it out. Our team is going to be scary good.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:33 am    Post subject:

Vanquish wrote:
After seeing how Lonzo and Ingram are struggling, I am wondering if the nba is underrating the preparation - both mental and physical - that college gives to players.

It seems the lakers at least had not much luck with our one and done phenoms. High draft picks like Dlo, BI and Lonzo. Even Randel took a pretty long time to put it together, mostly in his 4th year.

Yet our 3 to 4 year college guys like Kuz and Hart are fitting in extremely well and contributing almost immediately.

In the future, maybe we should let our young picks spend some time in the G league before cementing their jump to the nba? Perhaps having a transition period would be better for their development


Or maybe our FO is terrible at evaulating college talent. Embiid missed 2 years of development and was fine when he started. Porzingis balled out from Day 1 in the league. Simmons missed 1 year, and came out of the gate dominating. Tatum is doing fine as is Fox. Fultz looks terrible, but he has a medical excuse, at least.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:39 am    Post subject:

"Worst greatest player" sums my feelings about Lonzo
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Vanquish
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:47 am    Post subject:

Threatt_Level wrote:
Vanquish wrote:
After seeing how Lonzo and Ingram are struggling, I am wondering if the nba is underrating the preparation - both mental and physical - that college gives to players.

It seems the lakers at least had not much luck with our one and done phenoms. High draft picks like Dlo, BI and Lonzo. Even Randel took a pretty long time to put it together, mostly in his 4th year.

Yet our 3 to 4 year college guys like Kuz and Hart are fitting in extremely well and contributing almost immediately.

In the future, maybe we should let our young picks spend some time in the G league before cementing their jump to the nba? Perhaps having a transition period would be better for their development


Or maybe our FO is terrible at evaulating college talent. Embiid missed 2 years of development and was fine when he started. Porzingis balled out from Day 1 in the league. Simmons missed 1 year, and came out of the gate dominating. Tatum is doing fine as is Fox. Fultz looks terrible, but he has a medical excuse, at least.


What you say is of course possible. The reason why I think talent evaluation is not the root problem is because it is this same FO who have spotted multiple late 1st round/early 2nd round gems which other scouting departments have completely missed. Getting one good late pick might be accident, but if the FO has gotten several, they must be doing something right in the talent evaluation department.

What the late picks have in common is that they're mostly nba-ready players who have played multiple years in good college programs. Further, it is this fact that distinguishes our late picks from our high draft picks. All our high draft picks are one and done players.

My suspicion is that LA might not be the easiest environment for a young player to develop. Unlike most of the teams on your list which have successful high first rounder, LA is an extremely large market with a disproportionate amount of media scrutiny. Further, LA is winning team with a long championship history which distinguishes it from other big market teams like new york. Together, both factors create a highly hostile media environment that highlights every flaw a young high draft pick might have.

How many high draft picks have actually succeeded in LA to superstar status since the showtime era? I can name only one, Kobe Bryant. And our front office at the time was run by the Logo who knows talent.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:53 am    Post subject:

Zo is such a polarising player, I haven't seen one like him in the time I've watched the NBA.

His handles need work, his shooting needs work and most definitely his touch around the basket.

Can look amazing and downright pathetic in the space of 2 plays, I hope for his sake he locks himself into a gym after the season ends and works with a professional on his offensive game because right now it's absolutely an abomination.
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:20 am    Post subject:

Vanquish wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Vanquish wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:


So you're saying the team has mental health professionals that they work with and anyone they see missing shots, they send to this mental health professional?

So, does that include Svi cuz he's been missing shots all year? Do they send him to this mental health professional as well? Who determines who gets sent? Magic? With his no college degree? Pelinka?


I get what the OP is saying although I would have expressed it differently. Lest anyone forget the player formally known as Ron Artest did credit his sports psychologist for getting him focused enough to win a championship.

The term mental health might imply that there's something wrong with Lonzo. This, I disagree with. Lonzo is fine both mentally and physically as far as I can tell watching him on TV. However, even healthy athletes benefit from having sessions with sports psychologists centred around improving their focus and keeping any unnecessary anxiety/nervousness in check. I would think seeing a sports psychologist is the mental equivalent of taking vitamins to help the body.


It's different if a player seeks out the help of a sports psychologist than it is for a team to tell a player to go see one. If a "sports psychologist is the mental equivalent of taking vitamins to help the body" then everyone on the team should be seeing one, not just Lonzo.


I would agree actually. Everyone should have mental preparation. Phil had his Zen Sessions with his teams and all that got him was a bucketful of championships.

I still say its just a question of terminology. Coaches have been doing this for years for the entire team. Sports psychology is just a more scientific approach to a pretty usual practice. Mindfulness meditation is pretty useful for high stress/quick reacting professions such as sports. I wouldn't be surprised if many top atheletes actually employ it.


Which is not what the OP was referring to. He was talking about getting Lonzo help in the psychiatric sense of the word. He referred to "head cases."

I don't think he was saying the Lakers need to get Lonzo some more mindfulness meditation.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:21 am    Post subject:

PRLakeShow wrote:
Real question though, who's worse at converting layups? Fisher or Lonzo?


Fisher's rolling over in his grave at that question...
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:24 am    Post subject:

The God Particle wrote:
PRLakeShow wrote:
Real question though, who's worse at converting layups? Fisher or Lonzo?


Fisher's rolling over in his grave at that question...


I have great news for you, Fish is still alive and well.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:26 am    Post subject:

The God Particle wrote:
PRLakeShow wrote:
Real question though, who's worse at converting layups? Fisher or Lonzo?


Fisher's rolling over in his grave at that question...


Fish lacked finesse around the rim. Plus he was a smallish guard with average athleticism. Zo obviously lack finesse around the rim, but he has 2-guard length and athleticism. His issue with finishing around the rim has as much to do with mentality as it has to do with technique. He's in his own head whenever he's in the paint and isn't dunking.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:26 am    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Vanquish wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Vanquish wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:


So you're saying the team has mental health professionals that they work with and anyone they see missing shots, they send to this mental health professional?

So, does that include Svi cuz he's been missing shots all year? Do they send him to this mental health professional as well? Who determines who gets sent? Magic? With his no college degree? Pelinka?


I get what the OP is saying although I would have expressed it differently. Lest anyone forget the player formally known as Ron Artest did credit his sports psychologist for getting him focused enough to win a championship.

The term mental health might imply that there's something wrong with Lonzo. This, I disagree with. Lonzo is fine both mentally and physically as far as I can tell watching him on TV. However, even healthy athletes benefit from having sessions with sports psychologists centred around improving their focus and keeping any unnecessary anxiety/nervousness in check. I would think seeing a sports psychologist is the mental equivalent of taking vitamins to help the body.


It's different if a player seeks out the help of a sports psychologist than it is for a team to tell a player to go see one. If a "sports psychologist is the mental equivalent of taking vitamins to help the body" then everyone on the team should be seeing one, not just Lonzo.


I would agree actually. Everyone should have mental preparation. Phil had his Zen Sessions with his teams and all that got him was a bucketful of championships.

I still say its just a question of terminology. Coaches have been doing this for years for the entire team. Sports psychology is just a more scientific approach to a pretty usual practice. Mindfulness meditation is pretty useful for high stress/quick reacting professions such as sports. I wouldn't be surprised if many top atheletes actually employ it.


Which is not what the OP was referring to. He was talking about getting Lonzo help in the psychiatric sense of the word. He referred to "head cases."

I don't think he was saying the Lakers need to get Lonzo some more mindfulness meditation.


It's a shame we're discussing the mental make-up of a player who was selected #2 in the draft just last year. If he doesn't overcome the yips on the offensive side of the court, he's Ricky Rubio 2.0.

Is Lonzo a mental midg.. err drawf?
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:29 am    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
The God Particle wrote:
PRLakeShow wrote:
Real question though, who's worse at converting layups? Fisher or Lonzo?


Fisher's rolling over in his grave at that question...


I have great news for you, Fish is still alive and well.


Whew!!

Thanks!
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:31 am    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
The God Particle wrote:
PRLakeShow wrote:
Real question though, who's worse at converting layups? Fisher or Lonzo?


Fisher's rolling over in his grave at that question...


I have great news for you, Fish is still alive and well.


He’s coaching in the WNBA. ToMAYto ToMAHto.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:33 am    Post subject:

Vanquish wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Vanquish wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:


So you're saying the team has mental health professionals that they work with and anyone they see missing shots, they send to this mental health professional?

So, does that include Svi cuz he's been missing shots all year? Do they send him to this mental health professional as well? Who determines who gets sent? Magic? With his no college degree? Pelinka?


I get what the OP is saying although I would have expressed it differently. Lest anyone forget the player formally known as Ron Artest did credit his sports psychologist for getting him focused enough to win a championship.

The term mental health might imply that there's something wrong with Lonzo. This, I disagree with. Lonzo is fine both mentally and physically as far as I can tell watching him on TV. However, even healthy athletes benefit from having sessions with sports psychologists centred around improving their focus and keeping any unnecessary anxiety/nervousness in check. I would think seeing a sports psychologist is the mental equivalent of taking vitamins to help the body.


It's different if a player seeks out the help of a sports psychologist than it is for a team to tell a player to go see one. If a "sports psychologist is the mental equivalent of taking vitamins to help the body" then everyone on the team should be seeing one, not just Lonzo.


I would agree actually. Everyone should have mental preparation. Phil had his Zen Sessions with his teams and all that got him was a bucketful of championships.

I still say its just a question of terminology. Coaches have been doing this for years for the entire team. Sports psychology is just a more scientific approach to a pretty usual practice. Mindfulness meditation is pretty useful for high stress/quick reacting professions such as sports. I wouldn't be surprised if many top atheletes actually employ it.


Agree with this. There is a stigma when it comes to mental health, and there shouldn't be. The mind is just another part of the body that needs fine tuning if you are a professional athlete. My phrasing might have riled some but I think anxiety is part of Zo's problem, and probably a reason why many young players struggle, and teams would be wise to have professionals that deal with such issues.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:34 am    Post subject:

He looked downright giddy without Lebron on the floor in the second half when he could push the ball and be himself. I think there's something there. Unfortunately, it's also there with Ingram who needs lead ballhandling duties, and useless Rondo and Lance.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:35 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
The God Particle wrote:
PRLakeShow wrote:
Real question though, who's worse at converting layups? Fisher or Lonzo?


Fisher's rolling over in his grave at that question...


I have great news for you, Fish is still alive and well.


He’s coaching in the WNBA. ToMAYto ToMAHto.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:37 am    Post subject:

Lonzo will be fine. He just struggles to find the rythm. He will be 15p 7reb 7ast and 2stl in last regular season games
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:40 am    Post subject:

I seriously think the Lakers should simplify his development. No more pushing him to be the next Magic/Kidd/Stockton... for now. Let his mind and time focus on 2-3 things for now. Two obvious ones are simply his jumpshot and refining his defense.
If Lonzo can be a solid top 3 PG defender and a 40% 3pt shooter who never even attempts to drive into the paint, I'll gladly take that at this point.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:56 am    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Vanquish wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Vanquish wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:


So you're saying the team has mental health professionals that they work with and anyone they see missing shots, they send to this mental health professional?

So, does that include Svi cuz he's been missing shots all year? Do they send him to this mental health professional as well? Who determines who gets sent? Magic? With his no college degree? Pelinka?


I get what the OP is saying although I would have expressed it differently. Lest anyone forget the player formally known as Ron Artest did credit his sports psychologist for getting him focused enough to win a championship.

The term mental health might imply that there's something wrong with Lonzo. This, I disagree with. Lonzo is fine both mentally and physically as far as I can tell watching him on TV. However, even healthy athletes benefit from having sessions with sports psychologists centred around improving their focus and keeping any unnecessary anxiety/nervousness in check. I would think seeing a sports psychologist is the mental equivalent of taking vitamins to help the body.


It's different if a player seeks out the help of a sports psychologist than it is for a team to tell a player to go see one. If a "sports psychologist is the mental equivalent of taking vitamins to help the body" then everyone on the team should be seeing one, not just Lonzo.


I would agree actually. Everyone should have mental preparation. Phil had his Zen Sessions with his teams and all that got him was a bucketful of championships.

I still say its just a question of terminology. Coaches have been doing this for years for the entire team. Sports psychology is just a more scientific approach to a pretty usual practice. Mindfulness meditation is pretty useful for high stress/quick reacting professions such as sports. I wouldn't be surprised if many top atheletes actually employ it.


Which is not what the OP was referring to. He was talking about getting Lonzo help in the psychiatric sense of the word. He referred to "head cases."

I don't think he was saying the Lakers need to get Lonzo some more mindfulness meditation.


I think everyone, not just athletes, can benefit from therapy. Considering that I don't like the stigma attached to mental health issues, I probably shouldn't have used the phrase 'Head case".
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:58 am    Post subject:

audioaxes wrote:
I seriously think the Lakers should simplify his development. No more pushing him to be the next Magic/Kidd/Stockton... for now. Let his mind and time focus on 2-3 things for now. Two obvious ones are simply his jumpshot and refining his defense.
If Lonzo can be a solid top 3 PG defender and a 40% 3pt shooter who never even attempts to drive into the paint, I'll gladly take that at this point.


I think they have simplified his development. He's basically being used as a screen setting version of Derek Fisher in the starting lineup. Personally, I wish he'd get more run with the bench where he could let loose, but even there he often has to play the 2.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:01 am    Post subject:

OCWA wrote:
Good game and he gave everyone what they wanted. The haters got the missed layup and the supporters got the solid defense and filling up the stat sheet. AND we all get to enjoy a victory.

Sad but very accurate post, well said.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:15 am    Post subject:

OCWA wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Vanquish wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Vanquish wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:


So you're saying the team has mental health professionals that they work with and anyone they see missing shots, they send to this mental health professional?

So, does that include Svi cuz he's been missing shots all year? Do they send him to this mental health professional as well? Who determines who gets sent? Magic? With his no college degree? Pelinka?


I get what the OP is saying although I would have expressed it differently. Lest anyone forget the player formally known as Ron Artest did credit his sports psychologist for getting him focused enough to win a championship.

The term mental health might imply that there's something wrong with Lonzo. This, I disagree with. Lonzo is fine both mentally and physically as far as I can tell watching him on TV. However, even healthy athletes benefit from having sessions with sports psychologists centred around improving their focus and keeping any unnecessary anxiety/nervousness in check. I would think seeing a sports psychologist is the mental equivalent of taking vitamins to help the body.


It's different if a player seeks out the help of a sports psychologist than it is for a team to tell a player to go see one. If a "sports psychologist is the mental equivalent of taking vitamins to help the body" then everyone on the team should be seeing one, not just Lonzo.


I would agree actually. Everyone should have mental preparation. Phil had his Zen Sessions with his teams and all that got him was a bucketful of championships.

I still say its just a question of terminology. Coaches have been doing this for years for the entire team. Sports psychology is just a more scientific approach to a pretty usual practice. Mindfulness meditation is pretty useful for high stress/quick reacting professions such as sports. I wouldn't be surprised if many top atheletes actually employ it.


Which is not what the OP was referring to. He was talking about getting Lonzo help in the psychiatric sense of the word. He referred to "head cases."

I don't think he was saying the Lakers need to get Lonzo some more mindfulness meditation.


I think everyone, not just athletes, can benefit from therapy. Considering that I don't like the stigma attached to mental health issues, I probably shouldn't have used the phrase 'Head case".


Yeah, now you're just changing your tone.

Here's exactly what you said:

OCWA wrote:
If the FO hasn't contacted a sports psychologist regarding Lonzo then they are shirking their duties and not properly protecting an important investment.


If you're saying everyone on the Lakers need therapy, then why single out Lonzo? Why are they not properly protecting their investment in regards to Lonzo but no on else?
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:17 am    Post subject:

Whoever mentioned DeAaron Fox in this thread, should know that theres been only one Fox in League - RICK FOX
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