View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Threatt_Level Starting Rotation
Joined: 30 Jul 2014 Posts: 467
|
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
CervantesRises wrote: | cthroatgtr wrote: | Lonzo's mistake was letting his Dad coach him. So many fundamental issues with his jumper it may never be completely fixed. That will prevent him from reaching the status expected of the #2 pick. Clearly he lacks confidence as a shooter as well.
Feels more like Ricky Rubio than Jason Kidd. |
Ricky never played D like that...never, not a day in his life. |
Looking at the Defensive RPM among point guards, Ricky is currently just ahead of Lonzo. Even in the counting stats, they're about even in steals and blocks. So, while he might not be as flashy as Lonzo, Rubio is playing D like that. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
noahp45 Star Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2006 Posts: 6572 Location: Oceanside Ca
|
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
SGV-Laker fan wrote: | Zo is like the point guard version of Dennis Rodman, horrible at scoring, but does everything else so well, has no ego of any kind. |
Damn!
Another good point. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
CervantesRises Star Player
Joined: 18 Jun 2016 Posts: 3914
|
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Threatt_Level wrote: | CervantesRises wrote: | cthroatgtr wrote: | Lonzo's mistake was letting his Dad coach him. So many fundamental issues with his jumper it may never be completely fixed. That will prevent him from reaching the status expected of the #2 pick. Clearly he lacks confidence as a shooter as well.
Feels more like Ricky Rubio than Jason Kidd. |
Ricky never played D like that...never, not a day in his life. |
Looking at the Defensive RPM among point guards, Ricky is currently just ahead of Lonzo. Even in the counting stats, they're about even in steals and blocks. So, while he might not be as flashy as Lonzo, Rubio is playing D like that. |
That's the problem with analytics.
1. Ricky can't guard 1 through 3
2. Ricky doesn't pick up full court
3. Ricky doesn't have the hand speed of Zo
Anyone who claims Ricky is on par with Zo doesn't watch the games...he ain't...and that's no slight to him. _________________ "If You're Afraid To Fail...Then You're Probably Going To Fail."
- Kobe
#BannersOverBillboards |
|
Back to top |
|
|
saetarubia Star Player
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 6208
|
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Rubio has been a good defender, but never came across as someone that'd suffocate top guards by keeping up with them. He doesn't have ZO's quick hands(Bron says one of the quickest in the league) nor the size at 6"4. Also not close interms of rebounding. So I get the comment that Rubio never played defense like that. _________________ Showtime 2.0 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
saetarubia Star Player
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 6208
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
splashmtn Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2016 Posts: 3961
|
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
CervantesRises wrote: | RichD wrote: | I'll take last night's Lonzo the rest of the year. |
Defense, Dunking, Transition Game & Ball Movement Absolutely
Kid is fighting his shot mechanics to the point where it's gotten into his head that he's questioning himself.
His Full Court pick up style of D is elite...like best in the league elite.
I'm really pulling for him to get his jumper solved so he can be a threat teams can't sag off of and that is something a player can fix during a season.
But I could deal with his 2nd half last night all year...that WTF layup is hard to unsee. | i missed it but heard about it and dont even want to see that low light. sounds awful. but i said in that other thread about Zo and BI having some of the worse touches with the ball in shooting at around the basket I have ever seen as professional NBA players. Especially ones that are perimeter players that are really working on those aspects of their game. I have never seen anything like this. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
The God Particle Star Player
Joined: 01 May 2015 Posts: 2196
|
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Threatt_Level wrote: | CervantesRises wrote: | cthroatgtr wrote: | Lonzo's mistake was letting his Dad coach him. So many fundamental issues with his jumper it may never be completely fixed. That will prevent him from reaching the status expected of the #2 pick. Clearly he lacks confidence as a shooter as well.
Feels more like Ricky Rubio than Jason Kidd. |
Ricky never played D like that...never, not a day in his life. |
Looking at the Defensive RPM among point guards, Ricky is currently just ahead of Lonzo. Even in the counting stats, they're about even in steals and blocks. So, while he might not be as flashy as Lonzo, Rubio is playing D like that. |
Ricky like Lonzo now has always been a very good defender.
We marginalize Ricky like some expendable scrub because he didn't live up to the hype.... but as of right now, this is the best comp for Lonzo. Except Ricky made his FTs. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
The God Particle Star Player
Joined: 01 May 2015 Posts: 2196
|
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
CervantesRises wrote: | Threatt_Level wrote: | CervantesRises wrote: | cthroatgtr wrote: | Lonzo's mistake was letting his Dad coach him. So many fundamental issues with his jumper it may never be completely fixed. That will prevent him from reaching the status expected of the #2 pick. Clearly he lacks confidence as a shooter as well.
Feels more like Ricky Rubio than Jason Kidd. |
Ricky never played D like that...never, not a day in his life. |
Looking at the Defensive RPM among point guards, Ricky is currently just ahead of Lonzo. Even in the counting stats, they're about even in steals and blocks. So, while he might not be as flashy as Lonzo, Rubio is playing D like that. |
That's the problem with analytics.
1. Ricky can't guard 1 through 3
2. Ricky doesn't pick up full court
3. Ricky doesn't have the hand speed of Zo
Anyone who claims Ricky is on par with Zo doesn't watch the games...he ain't...and that's no slight to him. |
Ricky's offense clearly never caught up to his defense, and it's why it's so easy to dismiss his strengths (defense). His lack of O is also the main reason for why he's considered a marginal NBA player today, but make no mistake.. Ricky's defense was just as good as Lonzo's (at some point).
https://dunkingwithwolves.com/2015/09/05/on-ricky-rubios-on-ball-defense-against-elite-point-guards/
If you read that article, and replace the name Ricky with Lonzo, you'd swear he was talking about Ball. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
BynumForThree Star Player
Joined: 27 Feb 2016 Posts: 1254
|
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Rubio is a great defender, do some of you even watch basketball outside of the Lakers? _________________ If Brandon Knight were to come out, I would take him number 1 in the draft. - Magic Johnson Mar 27, 2011
For all of you out there questioning Jimmer Fredette of BYU, he is the real deal. - Magic Johnson Mar 20, 2011 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
The God Particle Star Player
Joined: 01 May 2015 Posts: 2196
|
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
BynumForThree wrote: | Rubio is a great defender, do some of you even watch basketball outside of the Lakers? |
Sometimes when you want someone to succeed, you start watching them through lenses that only emphasize their strengths. In this case, I think Lonzo's defense is being overvalued by some (I didn't say overrated, because I think he's a very good defender).
It's the reason why there are so many tweets singling out individual plays gushing at his defensive prowess. They're overvaluing his defense, and indirectly overlooking his weaknesses.
This thread of Lonzo on this board is a carbon copy of the Ricky Rubio threads I saw on Jazz fan boards (yes, they have them too lol) for years. Sooner of later they came to terms with the fact that Ricky was a bust relative to his hype (I said relative to his hype, I don't think he's a bust, bust.... but certainly a bust relative to his expectations). |
|
Back to top |
|
|
PauPau Starting Rotation
Joined: 12 Jul 2018 Posts: 844
|
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The God Particle wrote: | BynumForThree wrote: | Rubio is a great defender, do some of you even watch basketball outside of the Lakers? |
Sometimes when you want someone to succeed, you start watching them through lenses that only emphasize their strengths. In this case, I think Lonzo's defense is being overvalued by some (I didn't say overrated, because I think he's a very good defender).
It's the reason why there are so many tweets singling out individual plays gushing at his defensive prowess. They're overvaluing his defense, and indirectly overlooking his weaknesses.
This thread of Lonzo on this board is a carbon copy of the Ricky Rubio threads I saw on Jazz fan boards (yes, they have them too lol) for years. Sooner of later they came to terms with the fact that Ricky was a bust relative to his hype (I said relative to his hype, I don't think he's a bust, bust.... but certainly a bust relative to his expectations). |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
|
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think anyone in this thread knows, no one overlooks his weakness.
How could you? There are posters in here that won't let you overlook it.
I'm on the side that knows his weaknesses. But I think his weaknesses can be overcome down the line. But it's a wait and see. Who knows.
That doesn't prevent me from appreciating his strengths though. I feel some people really have a hard time being able to appreciate his unique strengths since his weaknesses are obvious. But that's life. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
strong9 Star Player
Joined: 22 Mar 2003 Posts: 3239 Location: so many places
|
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Threatt_Level wrote: | Looking at the Defensive RPM among point guards, Ricky is currently just ahead of Lonzo. Even in the counting stats, they're about even in steals and blocks. So, while he might not be as flashy as Lonzo, Rubio is playing D like that. |
You, sir, may have the most clever screen name I have seen on this site yet. Well done. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
CervantesRises Star Player
Joined: 18 Jun 2016 Posts: 3914
|
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The God Particle wrote: | BynumForThree wrote: | Rubio is a great defender, do some of you even watch basketball outside of the Lakers? |
Sometimes when you want someone to succeed, you start watching them through lenses that only emphasize their strengths. In this case, I think Lonzo's defense is being overvalued by some (I didn't say overrated, because I think he's a very good defender).
It's the reason why there are so many tweets singling out individual plays gushing at his defensive prowess. They're overvaluing his defense, and indirectly overlooking his weaknesses.
This thread of Lonzo on this board is a carbon copy of the Ricky Rubio threads I saw on Jazz fan boards (yes, they have them too lol) for years. Sooner of later they came to terms with the fact that Ricky was a bust relative to his hype (I said relative to his hype, I don't think he's a bust, bust.... but certainly a bust relative to his expectations). |
And sometimes you have a different opinion because you've been watching basketball for 40 years and have seen enough to have an opinion.
When I see Ricky pick up a player for the length of the court for an entire game or switch to a 3 and D him up or consistently facilitate the break at the pace Zo does...then I'll eat some crow.
I didn't know particles knew everything...so I did learn something new today...thanks. _________________ "If You're Afraid To Fail...Then You're Probably Going To Fail."
- Kobe
#BannersOverBillboards |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Staccatos Star Player
Joined: 16 Jul 2002 Posts: 2416
|
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Lonzo still needs the non-existent Lakers shooting coach that should've already been hired. This traveshamockery must not be allowed to continue.
How about being proactiv here, Lakers? Need something to clear up that look on Lonzo's face. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
The Juggernaut Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2017 Posts: 4572
|
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Rubio is a great defender and always has been. Zo might be slightly better because he's bigger and more versatile. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kobe8One Starting Rotation
Joined: 23 May 2011 Posts: 633
|
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
From Showtime Magic to Triple Double Kidd and now Great defender Rubio. I hope we don't get to Tar heels great Marshall!!!!
Fox now has a Euro step and Ball really needs to work on his game this summer and show some fire in his eyes. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Eindhoven Star Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2015 Posts: 1930 Location: Zürich
|
Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
The God Particle wrote: | BynumForThree wrote: | Rubio is a great defender, do some of you even watch basketball outside of the Lakers? |
Sometimes when you want someone to succeed, you start watching them through lenses that only emphasize their strengths. In this case, I think Lonzo's defense is being overvalued by some (I didn't say overrated, because I think he's a very good defender).
It's the reason why there are so many tweets singling out individual plays gushing at his defensive prowess. They're overvaluing his defense, and indirectly overlooking his weaknesses.
This thread of Lonzo on this board is a carbon copy of the Ricky Rubio threads I saw on Jazz fan boards (yes, they have them too lol) for years. Sooner of later they came to terms with the fact that Ricky was a bust relative to his hype (I said relative to his hype, I don't think he's a bust, bust.... but certainly a bust relative to his expectations). |
Rubio has been a Jazz for just over one season... _________________ .... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
|
Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
Eindhoven wrote: | The God Particle wrote: | BynumForThree wrote: | Rubio is a great defender, do some of you even watch basketball outside of the Lakers? |
Sometimes when you want someone to succeed, you start watching them through lenses that only emphasize their strengths. In this case, I think Lonzo's defense is being overvalued by some (I didn't say overrated, because I think he's a very good defender).
It's the reason why there are so many tweets singling out individual plays gushing at his defensive prowess. They're overvaluing his defense, and indirectly overlooking his weaknesses.
This thread of Lonzo on this board is a carbon copy of the Ricky Rubio threads I saw on Jazz fan boards (yes, they have them too lol) for years. Sooner of later they came to terms with the fact that Ricky was a bust relative to his hype (I said relative to his hype, I don't think he's a bust, bust.... but certainly a bust relative to his expectations). |
Rubio has been a Jazz for just over one season... |
He meant the TWolves. I know what he's talking about. There were a few people on this board who said the same sorts of stuff about Rubio back in the day. He's such an amazing passer, and he impacts the game in so many ways! He just needs to work on his shooting. I can remember arguing with a couple of those folks, pointing out exactly how awful his shooting was, even in Spain. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Threatt_Level Starting Rotation
Joined: 30 Jul 2014 Posts: 467
|
Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
strong9 wrote: | Threatt_Level wrote: | Looking at the Defensive RPM among point guards, Ricky is currently just ahead of Lonzo. Even in the counting stats, they're about even in steals and blocks. So, while he might not be as flashy as Lonzo, Rubio is playing D like that. |
You, sir, may have the most clever screen name I have seen on this site yet. Well done. |
Why thank you. I had to show some love for Sedale. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
pio2u Retired Number
Joined: 26 Dec 2012 Posts: 54520
|
Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
Big match-up tonight. Harden and Paul will be a load to handle either way. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
|
Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
pio2u wrote: | Big match-up tonight. Harden and Paul will be a load to handle either way. |
Dang. I must have overslept. Wednesday just went right past me. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
|
Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
Threatt_Level wrote: | Looking at the Defensive RPM among point guards, Ricky is currently just ahead of Lonzo. Even in the counting stats, they're about even in steals and blocks. So, while he might not be as flashy as Lonzo, Rubio is playing D like that. |
Rubio doesn't have the versatility of Ball, but he's really good. Meanwhile, Ball's defense has gotten overrated a notch here. We have a thread arguing that he's the best defensive PG in the league. You can make a case for it, but only because there aren't a lot of great defensive PGs right now. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
BigGameHames Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015 Posts: 7982
|
Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
Rubio is a valuable and underrated player but if you don’t see why many feel Lonzo projects to be much better I think you’re ignoring the facts. Lonzo is a much better shooter than 2nd year Rubio. He’s shooting 32% from 3 on 4 per game while Rubio shot 29% on 1.6 per game. Lonzo also has a higher FG% and considerably higher efg% than second year Rubio. They are comparable players right now, in a few years Lonzo will more than likely far surpass him. Who’s a better defender is very debatable though, I agree with that part. I prefer Zo because of his ability to pick up full court and guard multiple positions but Rubio is one of the few guys in the NBA with as quick of hands as him and manages to get more steals while gambling less. I’m a Rubio fan which is part of the reason I’m such a big Lonzo fan. A second year player who’s already on par with him as a player and has far more physical gifts projects to be much better and a damn good NBA player. Rubio is his floor. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
The God Particle Star Player
Joined: 01 May 2015 Posts: 2196
|
Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
Eindhoven wrote: | The God Particle wrote: | BynumForThree wrote: | Rubio is a great defender, do some of you even watch basketball outside of the Lakers? |
Sometimes when you want someone to succeed, you start watching them through lenses that only emphasize their strengths. In this case, I think Lonzo's defense is being overvalued by some (I didn't say overrated, because I think he's a very good defender).
It's the reason why there are so many tweets singling out individual plays gushing at his defensive prowess. They're overvaluing his defense, and indirectly overlooking his weaknesses.
This thread of Lonzo on this board is a carbon copy of the Ricky Rubio threads I saw on Jazz fan boards (yes, they have them too lol) for years. Sooner of later they came to terms with the fact that Ricky was a bust relative to his hype (I said relative to his hype, I don't think he's a bust, bust.... but certainly a bust relative to his expectations). |
Rubio has been a Jazz for just over one season... |
My bad, I meant wolves boards... just pictured him in a Jazz jersey as I was typing it. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|