Can someone with far more basketball smarts than myself sell me on Lonzo
Does everything right and above average except his shot being consistent and thus can still impact the game positively when the shot isn't falling. When the shot starts falling consistently the league had better watch out. Criminally underrated by the same people that when Russell was averaging 20/5/4 when he got minutes before Luke benched him needlessly, said he didn't play defense and couldn't effect the game when he wasn't scoring. They now have a point guard that does everything above average and extremely well, and far beyond other players in his age bracket, but score, but only gets that talked about.
Lonzo's the kind of player that if he was on any other team, the same fanbase would likely be going "Wow when he gets a jumper and a little stronger...watch out. Cause he's already a more complete player than (anyone we'd drafted that year)." _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk
Lonzo's the kind of player that if he was on any other team, the same fanbase would likely be going "Wow when he gets a jumper and a little stronger...watch out. Cause he's already a more complete player than (anyone we'd drafted that year)."
More likely to get a jumper - Ingram or Lonzo?
The problem with Lonzo is his jumper is so bad, it is hard to envision him actually developing one.
Imagine how good Ben Wallace or Rodman would have been if they developed an offensive game.
Lonzo's a good player, it's just that there is a possibility he won't become an all star because of his funky shooting mechanics, so what?
It's not possible to have 5 All Stars on the team. Shooting is one of the easier skills to address on the free agent market. Just compensate for Lonzo's deficiencies via the other 2 wing positions on the floor
Lonzo's shooting is hurting us because of the lack of shooting from the other wing positions right now. Add a max FA next season, and maybe a shooter for the room exception, then Lonzo's lack of shooting becomes less of a factor. I would keep Lonzo for his passing and defense which are far harder skills to replicate on the FA market as opposed to shooting.
Last edited by Vanquish on Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:40 am; edited 2 times in total
HOME : 43.3% (4 attempts)
AWAY : 16.1% (4.3 attempts)
His shot may be unconventional, but he CAN shoot, at least at home. He's just pathtic on the road. It's all mental.
In the restricted area, he's not elite, but he's not garbage, 58.8%, it's the same as James Harden, and better than Middleton, Dragic, DSJ, Lillard, Schroeder, Chris Paul...
Also I would rather not trade Lonzo to avoid the inevitable 2000 page Lonzo ball thread on the general nba forum, with every other post declaring rob/magic to be stupid for trading away a future HOF.
Lonzo has to learn to shoot and to play without the ball.
Especially with Lebron.
Lonzo just goes to a spot and stays there. He should at least move around.
Also his free throw shooting makes him useless at the end of games. And his terrible 3 pt shooting makes him a bad fit with
Lebron.
Lonzos terrible shooting makes him a big project.
Guy needs to go. His intangibles do not compensate for his complete lack of offense. Teams can just disregard him on defense.
If Philly still wants KCP, Magic should see if they'd do a KCP/Lonzo for Chandler/Fultz swap. I'd even throw in Svi, if that would move the needle on the deal. Lonzo looks like he'll top out as a discount Marcus Smart with better passing.
Lonzo needs a injury-free summer so he can spend 5 months working on developing his game. Layups, shooting, free throws, et cetera
Lonzo is bricking wide open 3 pointers. By the time they get to the NBA, players should be able to hit wide open shots in a game. A summer isn't going to fix that.
Guy needs to go. His intangibles do not compensate for his complete lack of offense. Teams can just disregard him on defense.
If Philly still wants KCP, Magic should see if they'd do a KCP/Lonzo for Chandler/Fultz swap. I'd even throw in Svi, if that would move the needle on the deal. Lonzo looks like he'll top out as a discount Marcus Smart with better passing.
So you have more confidence in Fultz who has done far less than Lonzo? Ok. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Lonzo's the kind of player that if he was on any other team, the same fanbase would likely be going "Wow when he gets a jumper and a little stronger...watch out. Cause he's already a more complete player than (anyone we'd drafted that year)."
More likely to get a jumper - Ingram or Lonzo?
The problem with Lonzo is his jumper is so bad, it is hard to envision him actually developing one.
Imagine how good Ben Wallace or Rodman would have been if they developed an offensive game.
dennis nor ben ever shot 3's in college or high school. big ben was never a good ft shooter to my knowledge.
Zo was a solid scorer in high school and college. made nba 3's in college. made layups in college. made freethrows in high school at an 80% clip.
this tells me two things. #1 you have some mechanical issues with your scoring(how you jump, how you release the ball on layups, what type of layups you use to take that wont work vs nba guys, what type of layups you should be taking vs nba guys that you have never had to take, your jumper etc. ) But what stands out even beyond that. is MENTAL. freethrows are free throws are FREE...Throws. rec league, by yourself, semi pro, overseas FIBA, Lithuania(LOL), Chino Hills, lakers practice facility, in a NBA game. its a 10 foot rim. the FT line is the same distance, and the ball is still a round basketball. Get out of your own head and make the open shots.
Same goes for open 3's and blown layups when not in traffic.
Imagine this. if he never fixed a single bit of his shot or mechanics on any of those things. Any basketball player that has played since he/she was a kid, should be able to cash those in when ALONE. zo is bricking this stuff with or without defenders around. that tells you its a HEAD THING. we have to first get this guy out of his own head. then we can really hone in on the mechanics. lets assume he got out of his head. He would be shooting around 45% from the field. and his 3pt% would be a slightly higher(not super high but slight due to the fact that he would start popping 3's then they would start to really guard him closely. but his 2's would go in all of the time when not in serious traffic that would increase his fg% drastically.
if he made 80% of his FT's. he would have a higher ppg average.
Also I would rather not trade Lonzo to avoid the inevitable 2000 page Lonzo ball thread on the general nba forum, with every other post declaring rob/magic to be stupid for trading away a future HOF.
We already have those for Dlo/Randle.
Are those people watching Russell play? He's playing like a (very) average NBA SG. The sad thing is, he's still an upgrade over Lonzo.
Guy needs to go. His intangibles do not compensate for his complete lack of offense. Teams can just disregard him on defense.
If Philly still wants KCP, Magic should see if they'd do a KCP/Lonzo for Chandler/Fultz swap. I'd even throw in Svi, if that would move the needle on the deal. Lonzo looks like he'll top out as a discount Marcus Smart with better passing.
So you have more confidence in Fultz who has done far less than Lonzo? Ok.
Fultz's issues are physical. I'd rather gamble on Fultz turning it around than keep going down this path where Lonzo never gets it together and ends up a career backup. Lonzo can't handle the pressure of playing for the Lakers. It's becoming very apparent.
Last edited by Threatt_Level on Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:04 am; edited 1 time in total
Guy needs to go. His intangibles do not compensate for his complete lack of offense. Teams can just disregard him on defense.
If Philly still wants KCP, Magic should see if they'd do a KCP/Lonzo for Chandler/Fultz swap. I'd even throw in Svi, if that would move the needle on the deal. Lonzo looks like he'll top out as a discount Marcus Smart with better passing.
So you have more confidence in Fultz who has done far less than Lonzo? Ok.
Fultz's issues are physical. I'd rather gamble on Fultz turning it around than keep going down this path where Lonzo never gets it together and ends up a career backup.
So how many games b/f you then want to trade Fultz? You must not have watched any 76ers games...holy cow Fultz has major issues. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Guy needs to go. His intangibles do not compensate for his complete lack of offense. Teams can just disregard him on defense.
If Philly still wants KCP, Magic should see if they'd do a KCP/Lonzo for Chandler/Fultz swap. I'd even throw in Svi, if that would move the needle on the deal. Lonzo looks like he'll top out as a discount Marcus Smart with better passing.
So you have more confidence in Fultz who has done far less than Lonzo? Ok.
Fultz's issues are physical. I'd rather gamble on Fultz turning it around than keep going down this path where Lonzo never gets it together and ends up a career backup.
So how many games b/f you then want to trade Fultz? You must not have watched any 76ers games...holy cow Fultz has major issues.
Fultz's issues were caused by injury. There's nothing wrong with Lonzo, and he's got a worse FG% than Fultz. If Fultz never turns it around, we don't have anything invested in him. We'll be able to evaluate him fairly. There's too much "sunk cost" with Lonzo, and people are giving him a way longer leash than he deserves. If Lonzo were picked lower, he would've been banished to the bench by now like Frank N with the Knicks. He's not an NBA player on the offensive end.
Guy needs to go. His intangibles do not compensate for his complete lack of offense. Teams can just disregard him on defense.
If Philly still wants KCP, Magic should see if they'd do a KCP/Lonzo for Chandler/Fultz swap. I'd even throw in Svi, if that would move the needle on the deal. Lonzo looks like he'll top out as a discount Marcus Smart with better passing.
So you have more confidence in Fultz who has done far less than Lonzo? Ok.
Fultz's issues are physical. I'd rather gamble on Fultz turning it around than keep going down this path where Lonzo never gets it together and ends up a career backup.
So how many games b/f you then want to trade Fultz? You must not have watched any 76ers games...holy cow Fultz has major issues.
Fultz's issues were caused by injury. There's nothing wrong with Lonzo, and he's got a worse FG% than Fultz. If Fultz never turns it around, we don't have anything invested in him. We'll be able to evaluate him fairly. There's too much "sunk cost" with Lonzo, and people are giving him a way longer leash than he deserves. If Lonzo were picked lower, he would've been banished to the bench by now like Frank N with the Knicks. He's not an NBA player on the offensive end.
Longer leash? He's played 1 year and is coming off knee surgery. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
His offensive game is a mess and needs to be stripped down and rebuilt. But he's a plus defensively. I think the team will give him more than 1 year. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Lonzo's the kind of player that if he was on any other team, the same fanbase would likely be going "Wow when he gets a jumper and a little stronger...watch out. Cause he's already a more complete player than (anyone we'd drafted that year)."
More likely to get a jumper - Ingram or Lonzo?
The problem with Lonzo is his jumper is so bad, it is hard to envision him actually developing one.
Imagine how good Ben Wallace or Rodman would have been if they developed an offensive game.
dennis nor ben ever shot 3's in college or high school. big ben was never a good ft shooter to my knowledge.
Zo was a solid scorer in high school and college. made nba 3's in college. made layups in college. made freethrows in high school at an 80% clip.
this tells me two things. #1 you have some mechanical issues with your scoring(how you jump, how you release the ball on layups, what type of layups you use to take that wont work vs nba guys, what type of layups you should be taking vs nba guys that you have never had to take, your jumper etc. ) But what stands out even beyond that. is MENTAL. freethrows are free throws are FREE...Throws. rec league, by yourself, semi pro, overseas FIBA, Lithuania(LOL), Chino Hills, lakers practice facility, in a NBA game. its a 10 foot rim. the FT line is the same distance, and the ball is still a round basketball. Get out of your own head and make the open shots.
Same goes for open 3's and blown layups when not in traffic.
Imagine this. if he never fixed a single bit of his shot or mechanics on any of those things. Any basketball player that has played since he/she was a kid, should be able to cash those in when ALONE. zo is bricking this stuff with or without defenders around. that tells you its a HEAD THING. we have to first get this guy out of his own head. then we can really hone in on the mechanics. lets assume he got out of his head. He would be shooting around 45% from the field. and his 3pt% would be a slightly higher(not super high but slight due to the fact that he would start popping 3's then they would start to really guard him closely. but his 2's would go in all of the time when not in serious traffic that would increase his fg% drastically.
if he made 80% of his FT's. he would have a higher ppg average.
The head is sometimes the most difficult thing to fix. If he doesn't have the mental makeup there is no amount anyone can do to fix him. That's actually my biggest fear with Lonzo, is that he's a mental dwarf.
Both Fultz and him are mental dwarfs (so far anyway). But with Fultz, at least it's a medical/injury reason (if you buy it, I'm still not sold on his never issue).
Countless other athletes across many other sports developed the yips that sunk their careers. David Duval (former #1 ranked golfer in the world) got inside his own head and well.... now he doesn't play.
Longer leash? He's played 1 year and is coming off knee surgery.
Knee surgery isn't an excuse for him bricking open 3s. That was the one skill he was supposed to have coming into the league. We all knew he had no midrange game and was just okay at finishing at the rim. But he was supposed to be deadly from 3 point range. He was hitting 30 footers in college, but he can't get his shot off against NBA players, and now his confidence is so wrecked that he can't hit open 3s.
But with Fultz, at least it's a medical/injury reason
And we know this how? I'm in the 76ers market and many fans here seem to believe his agent became an "attorney" and shopped for a doctor to make that diagnosis. 76ers traded their pick AND the Sacto pick for Fultz. Imagine if the Lakers did something comparable to that.
Lonzo isn't completely broken. I still think he can be a very productive and useful player. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
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