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adkindo
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Joined: 16 Jun 2005
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Location: Dirty South
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 Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | ^^^^no I do not, and the point is why does it matter in the grand scheme? If it was -.19 or +.27......is the conversation somehow different? |
Doesn’t matter much to me but it matters to the poster who you responded to. I’m assuming he was asking because he believes he played poorly on defense early in the year but has significantly improved and was wondering if the numbers support that. |
ok, so you were looking out for another poster, and not trying to deflect from the opinions I posted?
For the record, I knew exactly what and why he was seeking that information....and like i said, I think it has improved, but do not know the actual information....but my response was to that post...ok, his DRPM has improved a marginal amount; it does not really alter what will allow Ball to become or not become a competent NBA PG. It only serves as a "look over here". |
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | ^^^^no I do not, and the point is why does it matter in the grand scheme? If it was -.19 or +.27......is the conversation somehow different? |
Doesn’t matter much to me but it matters to the poster who you responded to. I’m assuming he was asking because he believes he played poorly on defense early in the year but has significantly improved and was wondering if the numbers support that. |
ok, so you were looking out for another poster, and not trying to deflect from the opinions I posted?
For the record, I knew exactly what and why he was seeking that information....and like i said, I think it has improved, but do not know the actual information....but my response was to that post...ok, his DRPM has improved a marginal amount; it does not really alter what will allow Ball to become or not become a competent NBA PG. It only serves as a "look over here". |
Neither just asking if you answered the simple question you responded to within the short essay rant you responded with. I’m glad you got that outta your system though, I’m sure some anger was festering after the performance on Saturday.
He’s already a competent starting NBA PG although I think you’re in the ballpark about what it’ll take for him to become a star. |
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tensorflow
Rookie
Joined: 17 Dec 2018
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | ^^^^no I do not, and the point is why does it matter in the grand scheme? If it was -.19 or +.27......is the conversation somehow different? |
Doesn’t matter much to me but it matters to the poster who you responded to. I’m assuming he was asking because he believes he played poorly on defense early in the year but has significantly improved and was wondering if the numbers support that. |
ok, so you were looking out for another poster, and not trying to deflect from the opinions I posted?
For the record, I knew exactly what and why he was seeking that information....and like i said, I think it has improved, but do not know the actual information....but my response was to that post...ok, his DRPM has improved a marginal amount; it does not really alter what will allow Ball to become or not become a competent NBA PG. It only serves as a "look over here". |
Neither just asking if you answered the simple question you responded to within the short essay rant you responded with. I’m glad you got that outta your system though, I’m sure some anger was festering after the performance on Saturday.
He’s already a competent starting NBA PG although I think you’re in the ballpark about what it’ll take for him to become a star. |
He is by far the worst starting PG in the NBA. |
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| tensorflow wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | ^^^^no I do not, and the point is why does it matter in the grand scheme? If it was -.19 or +.27......is the conversation somehow different? |
Doesn’t matter much to me but it matters to the poster who you responded to. I’m assuming he was asking because he believes he played poorly on defense early in the year but has significantly improved and was wondering if the numbers support that. |
ok, so you were looking out for another poster, and not trying to deflect from the opinions I posted?
For the record, I knew exactly what and why he was seeking that information....and like i said, I think it has improved, but do not know the actual information....but my response was to that post...ok, his DRPM has improved a marginal amount; it does not really alter what will allow Ball to become or not become a competent NBA PG. It only serves as a "look over here". |
Neither just asking if you answered the simple question you responded to within the short essay rant you responded with. I’m glad you got that outta your system though, I’m sure some anger was festering after the performance on Saturday.
He’s already a competent starting NBA PG although I think you’re in the ballpark about what it’ll take for him to become a star. |
He is by far the worst starting PG in the NBA. |
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MJST
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Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26309
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| tensorflow wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | ^^^^no I do not, and the point is why does it matter in the grand scheme? If it was -.19 or +.27......is the conversation somehow different? |
Doesn’t matter much to me but it matters to the poster who you responded to. I’m assuming he was asking because he believes he played poorly on defense early in the year but has significantly improved and was wondering if the numbers support that. |
ok, so you were looking out for another poster, and not trying to deflect from the opinions I posted?
For the record, I knew exactly what and why he was seeking that information....and like i said, I think it has improved, but do not know the actual information....but my response was to that post...ok, his DRPM has improved a marginal amount; it does not really alter what will allow Ball to become or not become a competent NBA PG. It only serves as a "look over here". |
Neither just asking if you answered the simple question you responded to within the short essay rant you responded with. I’m glad you got that outta your system though, I’m sure some anger was festering after the performance on Saturday.
He’s already a competent starting NBA PG although I think you’re in the ballpark about what it’ll take for him to become a star. |
He is by far the worst starting PG in the NBA. |
*looks at sign up date*
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How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
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Boybees
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Joined: 13 May 2001
Posts: 1161
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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If you look only at Lonzo's stat line, you can make a case that he's the worst starting PG in the league.
If you actually watch the games and the flow of play when he's on the floor, it's easy to see that he is MUCH better than his numbers indicate, especially his defense and passing.
His shooting is terrible, and if he doesn't improve there, he'll never rise above mid-level in terms of impact as a PG.
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splashmtn
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Joined: 30 Aug 2016
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Boybees wrote: | If you look only at Lonzo's stat line, you can make a case that he's the worst starting PG in the league.
If you actually watch the games and the flow of play when he's on the floor, it's easy to see that he is MUCH better than his numbers indicate, especially his defense and passing.
His shooting is terrible, and if he doesn't improve there, he'll never rise above mid-level in terms of impact as a PG. |
that last part actually isnt true. which shows you how much impact he actually has with his passing and defense.
he's so impactful that he sucks on offense in every which way when it comes to scoring(layups, shooting, ft's) yet he can greatly impact a game. thats not normal and its unheard of from the pg spot. because i dont recall every seeing a nba pg that had lock down defense, way above average team defense, and elite level passing ability/iq but horrible scoring ability. |
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epak
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | ^^^^no I do not, and the point is why does it matter in the grand scheme? If it was -.19 or +.27......is the conversation somehow different? |
Doesn’t matter much to me but it matters to the poster who you responded to. I’m assuming he was asking because he believes he played poorly on defense early in the year but has significantly improved and was wondering if the numbers support that. |
ok, so you were looking out for another poster, and not trying to deflect from the opinions I posted?
For the record, I knew exactly what and why he was seeking that information....and like i said, I think it has improved, but do not know the actual information....but my response was to that post...ok, his DRPM has improved a marginal amount; it does not really alter what will allow Ball to become or not become a competent NBA PG. It only serves as a "look over here". |
Hames and I are one and the same? |
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epak
Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | tensorflow wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | ^^^^no I do not, and the point is why does it matter in the grand scheme? If it was -.19 or +.27......is the conversation somehow different? |
Doesn’t matter much to me but it matters to the poster who you responded to. I’m assuming he was asking because he believes he played poorly on defense early in the year but has significantly improved and was wondering if the numbers support that. |
ok, so you were looking out for another poster, and not trying to deflect from the opinions I posted?
For the record, I knew exactly what and why he was seeking that information....and like i said, I think it has improved, but do not know the actual information....but my response was to that post...ok, his DRPM has improved a marginal amount; it does not really alter what will allow Ball to become or not become a competent NBA PG. It only serves as a "look over here". |
Neither just asking if you answered the simple question you responded to within the short essay rant you responded with. I’m glad you got that outta your system though, I’m sure some anger was festering after the performance on Saturday.
He’s already a competent starting NBA PG although I think you’re in the ballpark about what it’ll take for him to become a star. |
He is by far the worst starting PG in the NBA. |
*looks at sign up date* |
Return of WatchME? |
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ItsJustMagic
Sixth Man
Joined: 07 Nov 2017
Posts: 82
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | tensorflow wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | ^^^^no I do not, and the point is why does it matter in the grand scheme? If it was -.19 or +.27......is the conversation somehow different? |
Doesn’t matter much to me but it matters to the poster who you responded to. I’m assuming he was asking because he believes he played poorly on defense early in the year but has significantly improved and was wondering if the numbers support that. |
ok, so you were looking out for another poster, and not trying to deflect from the opinions I posted?
For the record, I knew exactly what and why he was seeking that information....and like i said, I think it has improved, but do not know the actual information....but my response was to that post...ok, his DRPM has improved a marginal amount; it does not really alter what will allow Ball to become or not become a competent NBA PG. It only serves as a "look over here". |
Neither just asking if you answered the simple question you responded to within the short essay rant you responded with. I’m glad you got that outta your system though, I’m sure some anger was festering after the performance on Saturday.
He’s already a competent starting NBA PG although I think you’re in the ballpark about what it’ll take for him to become a star. |
He is by far the worst starting PG in the NBA. |
*looks at sign up date* |
Return of WatchME? |
Seems as annoying |
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eddiejonze
Star Player
Joined: 19 Dec 2013
Posts: 7228
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:02 am Post subject: |
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| ItsJustMagic wrote: | | epak wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | tensorflow wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | ^^^^no I do not, and the point is why does it matter in the grand scheme? If it was -.19 or +.27......is the conversation somehow different? |
Doesn’t matter much to me but it matters to the poster who you responded to. I’m assuming he was asking because he believes he played poorly on defense early in the year but has significantly improved and was wondering if the numbers support that. |
ok, so you were looking out for another poster, and not trying to deflect from the opinions I posted?
For the record, I knew exactly what and why he was seeking that information....and like i said, I think it has improved, but do not know the actual information....but my response was to that post...ok, his DRPM has improved a marginal amount; it does not really alter what will allow Ball to become or not become a competent NBA PG. It only serves as a "look over here". |
Neither just asking if you answered the simple question you responded to within the short essay rant you responded with. I’m glad you got that outta your system though, I’m sure some anger was festering after the performance on Saturday.
He’s already a competent starting NBA PG although I think you’re in the ballpark about what it’ll take for him to become a star. |
He is by far the worst starting PG in the NBA. |
*looks at sign up date* |
Return of WatchME? |
Seems as annoying |
I miss something? watchme got banned? 
_________________
Creatures crawl in search of blood, To terrorize y'alls neighborhood. |
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Vanquish
Star Player
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 1561
Location: London
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:46 am Post subject: |
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Just a thought. If we are able to shore up the other 2 wing positions with scorers/shooters including a possible max FA, will Lonzo’s lack of shooting be that big a deal? There simply wouldn’t be enough Basketball to go around anyways.
As for the argument that Lonzo would hurt spacing because his assigned defender would cheat off him. A 2nd max wing FA would already command a double team anyways in addition to LeBron, so in any case lonzo’s defender would have to cheat regardless of lonzo’s shot.
I am not saying that it wouldn’t be better for the offense if lonzo had a reliable shot. All I am saying is that with 2 max FAs and a shooting wing, lonzo’s deficiencies would be less important and his strengths (passing /defence) would be highlighted. |
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lakersfan8
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Joined: 27 May 2014
Posts: 2993
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:54 am Post subject: |
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| Vanquish wrote: | Just a thought. If we are able to shore up the other 2 wing positions with scorers/shooters including a possible max FA, will Lonzo’s lack of shooting be that big a deal? There simply wouldn’t be enough Basketball to go around anyways.
As for the argument that Lonzo would hurt spacing because his assigned defender would cheat off him. A 2nd max wing FA would already command a double team anyways in addition to LeBron, so in any case lonzo’s defender would have to cheat regardless of lonzo’s shot.
I am not saying that it wouldn’t be better for the offense if lonzo had a reliable shot. All I am saying is that with 2 max FAs and a shooting wing, lonzo’s deficiencies would be less important and his strengths (passing /defence) would be highlighted. |
The value of his passing ability will be even more diminished if the 2nd max player comes. Fortunately the defense is already there but he must improve his shooting. |
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Vanquish
Star Player
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Posts: 1561
Location: London
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:28 am Post subject: |
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Lonzo isn't really a traditional pg though. His passing in a half-court set is ok but I wouldn't consider it fantastic. I think Lebron is much better at creating half court opportunities.
What Lonzo really excels in - IMO - is knowing how to quickly push the ball full court for fast break points. I don't think the 2nd Max FA would really affect this aspect of his game. Even if the 2nd Max FA is ball dominant it will be in the half court set. |
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kfkilla
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Joined: 31 Jul 2002
Posts: 4292
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| Vanquish wrote: | Lonzo isn't really a traditional pg though. His passing in a half-court set is ok but I wouldn't consider it fantastic. I think Lebron is much better at creating half court opportunities.
What Lonzo really excels in - IMO - is knowing how to quickly push the ball full court for fast break points. I don't think the 2nd Max FA would really affect this aspect of his game. Even if the 2nd Max FA is ball dominant it will be in the half court set. |
You are right. I still wonder why the Lakers don’t look for him immediately off a rebound. Often it goes to Lebron or Kuz or even Hart. That kind of mitigates Lonzos greatest asset on offense....igniting a fast break even when it seems like one is not there. I mean LeBron I get, but anyone else? Get the rock to Zo! Even Lebron to an extent. You came here not to handle as much. Plus we need lebron on the wing finishing not Zo! Hope they clear that up cause we are hurting ourselves. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| Vanquish wrote: | Just a thought. If we are able to shore up the other 2 wing positions with scorers/shooters including a possible max FA, will Lonzo’s lack of shooting be that big a deal? There simply wouldn’t be enough Basketball to go around anyways.
As for the argument that Lonzo would hurt spacing because his assigned defender would cheat off him. A 2nd max wing FA would already command a double team anyways in addition to LeBron, so in any case lonzo’s defender would have to cheat regardless of lonzo’s shot.
I am not saying that it wouldn’t be better for the offense if lonzo had a reliable shot. All I am saying is that with 2 max FAs and a shooting wing, lonzo’s deficiencies would be less important and his strengths (passing /defence) would be highlighted. |
Sure. Assuming for sake of discussion that Ball does not improve as an offensive player, we could compensate for his lack of shooting by filling the rest of the lineup with shooters. But even then we'd be better off switching him out for a PG with a better all around game. His defense is good, but not good enough to justify taking up a lineup slot. He needs to get better in the half court if he is going to be successful. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | He needs to get better in the half court if he is going to be successful. |
100% to this. He's only 1.25 years in so I give him a longer leash. But this is the key to unlocking his game. He's tremendous offensively in a fast break but less so in a half court offense when it's ground to a halt. He's great at hockey assists but as a go-to iso scorer or late clock shooter he's pretty atrocious.
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Posts: 8148
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| kfkilla wrote: | | Vanquish wrote: | Lonzo isn't really a traditional pg though. His passing in a half-court set is ok but I wouldn't consider it fantastic. I think Lebron is much better at creating half court opportunities.
What Lonzo really excels in - IMO - is knowing how to quickly push the ball full court for fast break points. I don't think the 2nd Max FA would really affect this aspect of his game. Even if the 2nd Max FA is ball dominant it will be in the half court set. |
You are right. I still wonder why the Lakers don’t look for him immediately off a rebound. Often it goes to Lebron or Kuz or even Hart. That kind of mitigates Lonzos greatest asset on offense....igniting a fast break even when it seems like one is not there. I mean LeBron I get, but anyone else? Get the rock to Zo! Even Lebron to an extent. You came here not to handle as much. Plus we need lebron on the wing finishing not Zo! Hope they clear that up cause we are hurting ourselves. |
What you are describing is the inconsistency and even contradiction of the Lakers choices.
Ball's greatest skill that got him drafted 2nd overall and had Magic pointing towards the rafters for the next "face of the franchise" is decision making and pushing the pace.
Last year the Lakers pushed the pace. When they are at their best this year... they have pushed the pace and passed the ball. Including some of James' highlight dunks. When they go James iso ball it is hit or miss (literally).
First option should always be push the ball no matter who rebounds it. If break is not there they can always bring it back out and let James be the playmaker. But even then they have to rely on movement and cuts instead of standing around watching James shoot a long 3 or forcing a pass to a mediocre shooter.
Stop deferring and run the offense. Every basket on a break makes it easier for James (or 2nd max FA) in the long run. Slowing it down to rely on him is exactly the wear and tear they should be concerned about.
Lonzo has to improve his offensive skills but until he does I am fine with his defense and court awareness. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:48 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Stop deferring and run the offense. Every basket on a break makes it easier for James (or 2nd max FA) in the long run. Slowing it down to rely on him is exactly the wear and tear they should be concerned about. |
This is really not a LBJ issue per se. We're not a strong defensive rebounding team (which fuels fast breaks). LBJ is leading the teams in rebounds at 7.7 rpg. I think teams have finally gotten a good idea of how to slow down our fast break b/c they see how uncomfortable some of our guys look in the half court.
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From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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LakerLanny
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Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 47580
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | He needs to get better in the half court if he is going to be successful. |
100% to this. He's only 1.25 years in so I give him a longer leash. But this is the key to unlocking his game. He's tremendous offensively in a fast break but less so in a half court offense when it's ground to a halt. He's great at hockey assists but as a go-to iso scorer or late clock shooter he's pretty atrocious. |
Yes, I agree.
A lot of his shots are obviously off line the moment they leave his hand, he is basically just hoping they go in rather than expecting they are going to go in.
His defense and rebounding are excellent and he is great at pushing the ball. But much of the NBA is played in the half court and so far he is a liability in the half court sets most of the time.
However, I will say this....scoring isn't really the Lakers issue anyway and Lonzo brings what I feel they need most to win which is better defense.
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Love, Laker Lanny |
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:25 am Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | He needs to get better in the half court if he is going to be successful. |
100% to this. He's only 1.25 years in so I give him a longer leash. But this is the key to unlocking his game. He's tremendous offensively in a fast break but less so in a half court offense when it's ground to a halt. He's great at hockey assists but as a go-to iso scorer or late clock shooter he's pretty atrocious. |
Yes, I agree.
A lot of his shots are obviously off line the moment they leave his hand, he is basically just hoping they go in rather than expecting they are going to go in.
His defense and rebounding are excellent and he is great at pushing the ball. But much of the NBA is played in the half court and so far he is a liability in the half court sets most of the time.
However, I will say this....scoring isn't really the Lakers issue anyway and Lonzo brings what I feel they need most to win which is better defense. |
Yea he’s got huge holes on offense especially in the half court but he’s become the best perimeter defender on the team by a fair margin. When the games really matter, LeBron will make sure they have a good offense and they’ll need all of the other things that Lonzo does. |
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pio2u
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Joined: 26 Dec 2012
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| Zo vs DLO tonight! |
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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | | However, I will say this....scoring isn't really the Lakers issue anyway and Lonzo brings what I feel they need most to win which is better defense. |
Well, as I write this, our ORtg is 16th in the league and our DRtg is 10th. That's good enough to make the playoffs, barring a major injury. But we aren't likely to make a run in the playoffs unless you believe that Lebron will just win playoff series by himself. (For whatever it's worth, the ESPN computer model projects us to finish at 46-36, fifth in the West.) If we're going anywhere this year, we need to keep the defense and improve the offense. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:35 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | LakerLanny wrote: | | However, I will say this....scoring isn't really the Lakers issue anyway and Lonzo brings what I feel they need most to win which is better defense. |
Well, as I write this, our ORtg is 16th in the league and our DRtg is 10th. That's good enough to make the playoffs, barring a major injury. But we aren't likely to make a run in the playoffs unless you believe that Lebron will just win playoff series by himself. (For whatever it's worth, the ESPN computer model projects us to finish at 46-36, fifth in the West.) If we're going anywhere this year, we need to keep the defense and improve the offense. |
Right now we are matched up with Blazers. I think LBJ can win that series.
The only team that gives me true worries is the Warriors and maybe OKC.
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From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Ziggy
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 12712
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| Vanquish wrote: | Just a thought. If we are able to shore up the other 2 wing positions with scorers/shooters including a possible max FA, will Lonzo’s lack of shooting be that big a deal? There simply wouldn’t be enough Basketball to go around anyways.
As for the argument that Lonzo would hurt spacing because his assigned defender would cheat off him. A 2nd max wing FA would already command a double team anyways in addition to LeBron, so in any case lonzo’s defender would have to cheat regardless of lonzo’s shot.
I am not saying that it wouldn’t be better for the offense if lonzo had a reliable shot. All I am saying is that with 2 max FAs and a shooting wing, lonzo’s deficiencies would be less important and his strengths (passing /defence) would be highlighted. |
Agree with this. I learned this lesson with Odom. I got into some heated debates here about wanting to trade him back before we got Pau. Kobe needed someone else to take some of the pressure off him. Because of that I underappreciated everything else Lamar brought to the game, particularly his unselfishness, rebounding and versatility on defense (sounds familiar!). Difference is we were in cap hell and I didn't see any other way of getting that #2 guy. Thank you, Memphis.
I feel like Lonzo would be an amazing glue guy, like Draymond for the Warriors. We have the cap to bring in more scorers, and Lonzo will be perfectly fine letting them do their thing while playing elite defense. I no longer underappreciate players like Lonzo who bring so many other skills to the table besides scoring. |
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