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OCLakeShow
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Joined: 30 Nov 2018
Posts: 556
Location: OC
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 Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| miggz23 wrote: | | 32 wrote: | | Nice game by Lonzo but for some reason he had a -8 which was the worst of the starters. |
Played with the 2nd unit the most. |
Yup. Our bench scored 18, Nets bench scored 48. |
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PauPau
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Joined: 12 Jul 2018
Posts: 844
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | Lonzo had a great game tonight, definitely wasn't the problem. |
When is he ever?? 
A great game for real though and we wasted it.
Zo is gonna be alright, add an offseason to the mix and he'll be better still. |
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eddiejonze
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Joined: 19 Dec 2013
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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So how about it Lonzo doubters? your big gripe is his offense sucks- Vs. the Nets it was pretty good.
Care to give him props for one game at least? or be safe and hedge the compliment by pointing out Dlo played equal to or "better".?
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55
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Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 12092
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| He’s coming into his own. Don’t know if it really was the knee issue to start the season, but he definitely has a hop to his step lately and I love his aggressiveness. |
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Lonzo-Lite
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Joined: 17 May 2011
Posts: 5090
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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Good offensive game from Lonzo. His defense... not so much tonight. The whole team played bad defense including him. But I hope he retains his confidence on his shot and keep improving his shooting touch.
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LKA
Star Player
Joined: 06 Oct 2018
Posts: 5181
Location: Sin City
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| eddiejonze wrote: | So how about it Lonzo doubters? your big gripe is his offense sucks- Vs. the Nets it was pretty good.
Care to give him props for one game at least? or be safe and hedge the compliment by pointing out Dlo played equal to or "better".? |
Hes been better lately .. but 37/30/56 shooting percentages not gonna cut it. He has a long way to go |
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PauPau
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Joined: 12 Jul 2018
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| LKA wrote: | | eddiejonze wrote: | So how about it Lonzo doubters? your big gripe is his offense sucks- Vs. the Nets it was pretty good.
Care to give him props for one game at least? or be safe and hedge the compliment by pointing out Dlo played equal to or "better".? |
Hes been better lately .. but 37/30/56 shooting percentages not gonna cut it. He has a long way to go |
Still a much needed contribution from him tonight. If Zo doesn't catch fire, we get blown out.
He spared us some blushes. |
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epak
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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Good stuff!
Wish we got the win though  |
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lakersboy
Star Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 8518
Location: Left coast
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersfever714 wrote: | | One good game, three bad games. Rinse and repeat. |
Uh, that would be 2 really good games out of 3. Complainers are going to have to start showing up less often and finding other stuff to whine about. |
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lakersboy
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Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 8518
Location: Left coast
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| eddiejonze wrote: | So how about it Lonzo doubters? your big gripe is his offense sucks- Vs. the Nets it was pretty good.
Care to give him props for one game at least? or be safe and hedge the compliment by pointing out Dlo played equal to or "better".? |
I doubt it. Page after page of hate will sound like crickets until the next opportunity to spew discontent.
Last edited by lakersboy on Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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saetarubia
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J.C. Smith
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 12674
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:03 am Post subject: |
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| LKA wrote: | | Hes been better lately .. but 37/30/56 shooting percentages not gonna cut it. He has a long way to go |
He's actually at 40/32/52. Over his last 5 he's at 13.2 points (46.6% fg, 34.5% 3p), 6.2 rebounds, 5.8 assists, 2.8 steals, and 1 block per game. |
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george w kush
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Joined: 05 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:43 am Post subject: |
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| eddiejonze wrote: | So how about it Lonzo doubters? your big gripe is his offense sucks- Vs. the Nets it was pretty good.
Care to give him props for one game at least? or be safe and hedge the compliment by pointing out Dlo played equal to or "better".? |
When he can do it for a 10 game stretch instead of having 1 great game and following it up with 5 mediocre/bad ones I’ll give him some props. |
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al242
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Joined: 28 Sep 2012
Posts: 3120
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:20 am Post subject: |
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| eddiejonze wrote: | So how about it Lonzo doubters? your big gripe is his offense sucks- Vs. the Nets it was pretty good.
Care to give him props for one game at least? or be safe and hedge the compliment by pointing out Dlo played equal to or "better".? |
Guarantee he will have a horrible game vs Pelicans, he is inconsistent and his shot is broken. He is wayyy too inconsistent and not a starting PG on a contending team.
Last edited by al242 on Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:39 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:07 am Post subject: |
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| eddiejonze wrote: | So how about it Lonzo doubters? your big gripe is his offense sucks- Vs. the Nets it was pretty good.
Care to give him props for one game at least? or be safe and hedge the compliment by pointing out Dlo played equal to or "better".? |
No. He's had good offensive games before. That's not the issue. He had 29 in his second game in the league against the Suns. I'd be impressed by an extended run of games in the 15-18 point range. An outlier game like this? Not so much.
This is also the second straight game where we got lit up by opposing point guards. Some of this is due to the fact that opposing teams are exploiting switches, especially when it's Kuzma. Just the same, it is becoming apparent that a lot of Ball's apparent effectiveness was due to McGee. Ball's mediocre DRPM may be more accurate than I thought. |
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BigGameHames
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Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:29 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | eddiejonze wrote: | So how about it Lonzo doubters? your big gripe is his offense sucks- Vs. the Nets it was pretty good.
Care to give him props for one game at least? or be safe and hedge the compliment by pointing out Dlo played equal to or "better".? |
No. He's had good offensive games before. That's not the issue. He had 29 in his second game in the league against the Suns. I'd be impressed by an extended run of games in the 15-18 point range. An outlier game like this? Not so much.
This is also the second straight game where we got lit up by opposing point guards. Some of this is due to the fact that opposing teams are exploiting switches, especially when it's Kuzma. Just the same, it is becoming apparent that a lot of Ball's apparent effectiveness was due to McGee. Ball's mediocre DRPM may be more accurate than I thought. |
And he was effective last year because of Lopez? Of course they are ALL effected by McGees absence, their D is centered around funneling teams to their shot blockers. It may have been other PGs hurting them last night but most of their damage was not done on Zo.
It’s beginning to become apparent certain posters will desperately search for whatever they can to criticize the kid. |
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Fortysixn2
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Joined: 22 Jun 2016
Posts: 2849
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:46 am Post subject: |
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I think it’s pretty apparent that Lonzo is improving. He’s getting better at going to and finishing near the rim, his 3 pt shot is definitely better as is his free throwing...despite very modest % increases. His offensive skills were so rough it’s hard to distinguish between “historically awful” and just “bad” but his misses are at least closer and he’s becoming just much more consistent overall with his form.
As far as his defense, he’s not an elite face up defender. He has his moments, but he is an elite help and team defender. His hands in terms of speed defensively are the best I’ve ever seen and he has a savant like understanding of passing lanes and help D.
He probably needs another 80 games under his belt before we know what we have....but his creativity on both ends of the floor can’t be denied, he has worked on his body and I see progress. Unlike any of our other high picks, Lonzo does actually have an elite quality and could potentially be a star player. Unfortunately this elite quality isn’t something that just pops out in the box score and it’s doesnt lead to him scoring points, so haters will hate.
I still like and believe in the kid. I haven’t liked a rookie so much since Kobe and I’ve been a lakers fan for 30 years now. Just my 2 cents. |
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ringfinger
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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| eddiejonze wrote: | So how about it Lonzo doubters? your big gripe is his offense sucks- Vs. the Nets it was pretty good.
Care to give him props for one game at least? or be safe and hedge the compliment by pointing out Dlo played equal to or "better".? |
Everyone should be giving him props for his first offensive explosion in 31 games.
But people should also realize he effectively put up an average De'Aaron Fox offensive stat line.
Once these types of games become the rule and not the exception, we can move on and gripe about someone else. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | eddiejonze wrote: | So how about it Lonzo doubters? your big gripe is his offense sucks- Vs. the Nets it was pretty good.
Care to give him props for one game at least? or be safe and hedge the compliment by pointing out Dlo played equal to or "better".? |
No. He's had good offensive games before. That's not the issue. He had 29 in his second game in the league against the Suns. I'd be impressed by an extended run of games in the 15-18 point range. An outlier game like this? Not so much.
This is also the second straight game where we got lit up by opposing point guards. Some of this is due to the fact that opposing teams are exploiting switches, especially when it's Kuzma. Just the same, it is becoming apparent that a lot of Ball's apparent effectiveness was due to McGee. Ball's mediocre DRPM may be more accurate than I thought. |
And he was effective last year because of Lopez? Of course they are ALL effected by McGees absence, their D is centered around funneling teams to their shot blockers. It may have been other PGs hurting them last night but most of their damage was not done on Zo.
It’s beginning to become apparent certain posters will desperately search for whatever they can to criticize the kid. |
Spare us the personal attacks. You're just begging me to flip that last comment around and throw it in your face. That's not a productive way to run a discussion. If that's what you want, there are some other people in this thread who will be glad to indulge you.
I don't think his individual effectiveness has changed since last year. His DRPM is way down this year, though still positive, but I've said before that I thought this was due to other teams figuring out that he wasn't a rookie who could be picked on. Last year, they went right at him and found out that he could play defense. This year, they exploit the switches. He has less defensive impact because he isn't being challenged as much. That's not a bad thing, but it means that he may not duplicate his numbers from last season.
Anyway, you can't have it both ways. For a lot of the season, people have been touting the shooting stats of opposing PGs when Ball is in the game, especially that bogus website that is really a fan blog. We've had these numbers thrown in our face as people argue that Ball should be first team all-defense (or whatever). Now opposing PGs have lit us up like a Christmas tree for two straight games. If the answer is that McGee isn't here, then that tells us that the answer to all the earlier stats was that McGee was here. We saw the video clips of Ball shutting down Kemba Walker . . . from three feet away.
So when Russell and freaking Spencer Dinwiddie combine to go 15-33 (7-14) for 40 points with 19 assists, and the response is that we're missing our best center, color me unimpressed. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:25 am Post subject: |
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Two straight games out of 30+?
On the whole this season, I think Lonzo's defense against guards has been pretty good. Maybe he's not all-NBA level right now, but he's certainly at worst, above average defensively.
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BigGameHames
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Joined: 24 May 2015
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | eddiejonze wrote: | So how about it Lonzo doubters? your big gripe is his offense sucks- Vs. the Nets it was pretty good.
Care to give him props for one game at least? or be safe and hedge the compliment by pointing out Dlo played equal to or "better".? |
No. He's had good offensive games before. That's not the issue. He had 29 in his second game in the league against the Suns. I'd be impressed by an extended run of games in the 15-18 point range. An outlier game like this? Not so much.
This is also the second straight game where we got lit up by opposing point guards. Some of this is due to the fact that opposing teams are exploiting switches, especially when it's Kuzma. Just the same, it is becoming apparent that a lot of Ball's apparent effectiveness was due to McGee. Ball's mediocre DRPM may be more accurate than I thought. |
And he was effective last year because of Lopez? Of course they are ALL effected by McGees absence, their D is centered around funneling teams to their shot blockers. It may have been other PGs hurting them last night but most of their damage was not done on Zo.
It’s beginning to become apparent certain posters will desperately search for whatever they can to criticize the kid. |
Spare us the personal attacks. You're just begging me to flip that last comment around and throw it in your face. That's not a productive way to run a discussion. If that's what you want, there are some other people in this thread who will be glad to indulge you.
I don't think his individual effectiveness has changed since last year. His DRPM is way down this year, though still positive, but I've said before that I thought this was due to other teams figuring out that he wasn't a rookie who could be picked on. Last year, they went right at him and found out that he could play defense. This year, they exploit the switches. He has less defensive impact because he isn't being challenged as much. That's not a bad thing, but it means that he may not duplicate his numbers from last season.
Anyway, you can't have it both ways. For a lot of the season, people have been touting the shooting stats of opposing PGs when Ball is in the game, especially that bogus website that is really a fan blog. We've had these numbers thrown in our face as people argue that Ball should be first team all-defense (or whatever). Now opposing PGs have lit us up like a Christmas tree for two straight games. If the answer is that McGee isn't here, then that tells us that the answer to all the earlier stats was that McGee was here. We saw the video clips of Ball shutting down Kemba Walker . . . from three feet away.
So when Russell and freaking Spencer Dinwiddie combine to go 15-33 (7-14) for 40 points with 19 assists, and the response is that we're missing our best center, color me unimpressed. |
No attack, just an observation that has become very obvious.
It’s not all Lonzo or all McGee, it’s both of them. They play defense by going over screens, running teams off the 3 point, applying back pressure and funneling perimeter players to their shot blockers most of the time. Losing your best shot blocker is going to drastically impact the effectiveness of that strategy. Lonzo was bad defensively, for his standards yesterday, yet he was still the best perimeter defender on the team and the Nets were actively setting screens to get him off Russell late in the game. I didn’t see the Wiz game until garbage time but NBA PGs are going to get off from time to time, it’s life especially a day after shutting down a guy playing at an allNBA level the night before. As for Kemba, sure believe it’s all coincidence and Lonzo didn’t actually play good D, that’s your prerogative but further proves my point. In reality, he was hounding him all over the court, limiting his space, and contesting shots. Did Kemba shoot worse than usual? Of course. Does Lonzo deserve credit? Of course. Those things are rarely mutually exclusive. The goal is to not let players get comfortable and to force them into tough shots. He did that and Kemba missed. That’s great D. |
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epak
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lakersboy
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Posts: 8518
Location: Left coast
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:06 am Post subject: |
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The team had a bad road trip where 3 missing players helped the defense look worse than normal. Multiple opponents had good games. His bad game was a b2b where he shot more effectively (4-11) than Lebron (5-16). No Lakers defender stood out, but after Lonzo played a very good all around game (triple double) back to back loses (Lebron scored 13) 1 against a hot all-star guard, and HE'S the problem. He can't score, can't shoot, shoots worse than Smart or Rubio ever did, can't defend, is only good on defense if McGee is on the court, he won't score well in another game for a long time.
These garbage agenda based attacks with moving goal posts (he can't score, can't score often, well Fox does it all the time) make conversations like this worthless, especially when they include banned trolls.
I'm done with this thread. Meantime, don't look now, but Lonzo's getting better.  
Last edited by lakersboy on Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Aeneas Hunter
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Posts: 31763
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | No attack, just an observation that has become very obvious. |
No, it was absolutely an attack. You know that. If you can't respond in a civil fashion, just skip my posts. |
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eddiejonze
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Joined: 19 Dec 2013
Posts: 7251
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| lakersboy wrote: | The team had a bad road trip where 3 missing players helped the defense look worse than normal. Multiple opponents had good games. His bad game was a b2b where he shot more effectively (4-11) than Lebron (5-16). No Lakers defender stood out, but after Lonzo played a very good all around game (triple double) back to back loses (Lebron scored 13) 1 against a hot all-star guard, and HE'S the problem. He can't score, can't shoot, shoots worse than Smart or Rubio ever did, can't defend, is only good on defense if McGee is on the court, he won't score well in another game for a long time, he doesn't score 20+ regularly like Fox does.
These garbage agenda based attacks make conversations like this worthless, especially when they include banned trolls.
I'm done with this thread. Meantime, don't look now, but Lonzo's getting better. |
Yeah, I'm kinda losing the need to be on this thread much anymore- pretty obvious theres more doubters than fans, and honestly, the OP needs to rename this the "lonzo ball Piss and Moan Thread".
You're right about the banned trolls.
Anyways, I think Zo is getting better too and yes, It's not so much fun to be sold on the negatives of any player when all you are trying to do is enjoy the positives, as a fan of ALL players that play for your team.
I am a zo fan, and will never buy into any narrative that he is bad from anyone, ever. If I also feel like saying I was a fan of derrick Caracter or Kareem Rush, that is my prerogative.
Bet you most Zo haters favorite musician is Kenny G or Michael Bolton- I'm not gonna harp on them for that... You do you playa's.
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