Lonzo Ball needs to get better as a PG to be honest. I really don't care about the scoring because that's just related to confidence, but this year his passing has been subpar
He probably passes the ball the most out of anyone in the NBA and barely gets double digit assists. And don't say his teammates are not finishing. He makes a lot of non-scoring related passes. Hes rushes to get the ball out of his hands too frequently, especially from the pick and roll.
Just be more patient when the play is developing
Rondo can play under 30 mins and get double digit assists
wrong. his teammates are not finishing and they are not converting free throws. in addition he makes a lot of hockey assists. this is why you need to WATCH the game vs watching the box score for high assist numbers.
Before you reply, go back and watch this last game and see how many dimes he dropped where our guys just blew it or fumbled the ball then had to gather it and do something else with it nullifying the assist.
You put ball on a team full of shooters and finishers he would average double digit assists easily.
I watch every game, this is not about STATs its about the fact that he passes a lot, doesn't shoot much and doesn't generate points from his passes.
Lebron and Rondo have the SAME teammates
Lebron is avg 7.1 assists on 31 mins
Rondo is avg 6.6 in 25 mins (playing with the 2nd unit mostly)
Lonzo is avg 5.2 assist in 30 mins. In the last ten games hes playing 35 mins and averaging still only 6.1 (which most without rondo and lebron)
its not the teammates, he doesn't make an EFFECTIVE pass.
I like Lonzo hes my favorite, but yall baby him too much
his best asset is being a tall PG and great defender. But he has def not fine tuned his playmaking ala the great PGs like Nash, Kidd, Magic etc.
I've seen many pick and rolls with Mcgee where he passes it too soon to Mcgee and hes way out of the paint --- and leading to unnecessary mcgee far away hook shot or long stride missed layup.
the only argument you can make is because of his limited offense, defenders tend to stay with their man and thus leading to less open shot attempts from the pass. But a great pg would be reading these moments better and not pass into congestion.
Stuff like this is why you should actually WATCH games instead of being a what they call a box score hero. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk
Lonzo Ball needs to get better as a PG to be honest. I really don't care about the scoring because that's just related to confidence, but this year his passing has been subpar
He probably passes the ball the most out of anyone in the NBA and barely gets double digit assists. And don't say his teammates are not finishing. He makes a lot of non-scoring related passes. Hes rushes to get the ball out of his hands too frequently, especially from the pick and roll.
Just be more patient when the play is developing
Rondo can play under 30 mins and get double digit assists
wrong. his teammates are not finishing and they are not converting free throws. in addition he makes a lot of hockey assists. this is why you need to WATCH the game vs watching the box score for high assist numbers.
Before you reply, go back and watch this last game and see how many dimes he dropped where our guys just blew it or fumbled the ball then had to gather it and do something else with it nullifying the assist.
You put ball on a team full of shooters and finishers he would average double digit assists easily.
I watch every game, this is not about STATs its about the fact that he passes a lot, doesn't shoot much and doesn't generate points from his passes.
Lebron and Rondo have the SAME teammates
Lebron is avg 7.1 assists on 31 mins
Rondo is avg 6.6 in 25 mins (playing with the 2nd unit mostly)
Lonzo is avg 5.2 assist in 30 mins. In the last ten games hes playing 35 mins and averaging still only 6.1 (which most without rondo and lebron)
its not the teammates, he doesn't make an EFFECTIVE pass.
I like Lonzo hes my favorite, but yall baby him too much
his best asset is being a tall PG and great defender. But he has def not fine tuned his playmaking ala the great PGs like Nash, Kidd, Magic etc.
I've seen many pick and rolls with Mcgee where he passes it too soon to Mcgee and hes way out of the paint --- and leading to unnecessary mcgee far away hook shot or long stride missed layup.
the only argument you can make is because of his limited offense, defenders tend to stay with their man and thus leading to less open shot attempts from the pass. But a great pg would be reading these moments better and not pass into congestion.
I agree with, except for the babying part. He is not Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, or Magic Johnson. And he has a long way to go in PnR and in creating plays for others.
All that said, I now feel like Lonzo is the one guy who has really elevated his game relative to the last season. So I hope he continues on this trajectory.
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:53 am Post subject:
ringfinger wrote:
BlackStarMamba wrote:
splashmtn wrote:
BlackStarMamba wrote:
Lonzo Ball needs to get better as a PG to be honest. I really don't care about the scoring because that's just related to confidence, but this year his passing has been subpar
He probably passes the ball the most out of anyone in the NBA and barely gets double digit assists. And don't say his teammates are not finishing. He makes a lot of non-scoring related passes. Hes rushes to get the ball out of his hands too frequently, especially from the pick and roll.
Just be more patient when the play is developing
Rondo can play under 30 mins and get double digit assists
wrong. his teammates are not finishing and they are not converting free throws. in addition he makes a lot of hockey assists. this is why you need to WATCH the game vs watching the box score for high assist numbers.
Before you reply, go back and watch this last game and see how many dimes he dropped where our guys just blew it or fumbled the ball then had to gather it and do something else with it nullifying the assist.
You put ball on a team full of shooters and finishers he would average double digit assists easily.
I watch every game, this is not about STATs its about the fact that he passes a lot, doesn't shoot much and doesn't generate points from his passes.
Lebron and Rondo have the SAME teammates
Lebron is avg 7.1 assists on 31 mins
Rondo is avg 6.6 in 25 mins (playing with the 2nd unit mostly)
Lonzo is avg 5.2 assist in 30 mins. In the last ten games hes playing 35 mins and averaging still only 6.1 (which most without rondo and lebron)
its not the teammates, he doesn't make an EFFECTIVE pass.
I like Lonzo hes my favorite, but yall baby him too much
his best asset is being a tall PG and great defender. But he has def not fine tuned his playmaking ala the great PGs like Nash, Kidd, Magic etc.
I've seen many pick and rolls with Mcgee where he passes it too soon to Mcgee and hes way out of the paint --- and leading to unnecessary mcgee far away hook shot or long stride missed layup.
the only argument you can make is because of his limited offense, defenders tend to stay with their man and thus leading to less open shot attempts from the pass. But a great pg would be reading these moments better and not pass into congestion.
I agree with, except for the babying part. He is not Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, or Magic Johnson. And he has a long way to go in PnR and in creating plays for others.
All that said, I now feel like Lonzo is the one guy who has really elevated his game relative to the last season. So I hope he continues on this trajectory.
He's bad at that. I'm not sure why exactly. He had a knack for setting up those lobs at UCLA with Anigbogu.
Regarding the lack of assists, he basically shares the ball handling duties with Ingram now, or frankly anyone who grabs the rebound in this scatterball style that Luke adores. I don't put much stock into it given how badly this team moves the ball, and loves to go one-on-one.
Lonzo most def look better this year than last season even if the stat drop but his shooting look like it’s gonna take a while to get there, like seasons. Once he get to a steady 45%/35%/70% ish (hope before he 25 and he still PNG), he’ll be an all star, in the brutal western guards group
I think his passing will improve when he gets more aggressive offensively as players will not stay with their man, leaving them open.
Lebron makes Zu look like the 2nd coming of Marc Gasol when hes setting him up
Lebron also makes Mcgee look great
Lonzo not as much, right now.
It seems like you're saying a few different things. Just for clarity:
BlackStarMamba wrote:
This is not about STATs its about the fact that he passes a lot, doesn't shoot much and doesn't generate points from his passes.
Isn't generating points from his passes about stats?
BlackStarMamba wrote:
its not the teammates, he doesn't make an EFFECTIVE pass.
You mentioned his highlight passes were effective. Do you mean he makes ineffective passes along with his effective passes?
BlackStarMamba wrote:
Lebron makes Zu look like the 2nd coming of Marc Gasol when hes setting him up
I agree that Lonzo has a long way to go before reaching Lebron level gravity. I think it's more about his gravity than his passing ability though.
For the big picture, I do agree that Lonzo has improvements to make. I was just thrown off by the initial statement that he doesn't make effective passes. Which may not be what you meant or how I interpreted it.
its not the teammates, he doesn't make an EFFECTIVE pass.
You mentioned his highlight passes were effective. Do you mean he makes ineffective passes along with his effective passes?
I think that is what BSM is saying, and he is right up to a point. Ball makes a lot of hot potato passes that don't accomplish much. He doesn't generate a lot of "hockey assists," either. BSM was exaggerating a little, but that's just message board talk.
These are interesting stats. Ball makes more passes than anyone other than Lebron, but the effectiveness of his passing is much less than Lebron, Rondo, and even some of the non-PGs. There is something comical about Bonga having a higher assist to pass ratio, but I think we can discard that as a statistical blip.
At 11.8, Ball makes the first page of the list, but he's pretty far down. If you sort for secondary assists ("hockey assists"), Ball does not even make the first page of the list. Likewise, Ball does not make the first page of the list for assist to pass ratio.
None of this is intended as an indictment of Ball as a player. These are not *bad* stats. However, it's useful to look at the hard, cold numbers every now and then. Ball's passing stats are just fair to good for a point guard. He does make a lot of passes that are not effective.
its not the teammates, he doesn't make an EFFECTIVE pass.
You mentioned his highlight passes were effective. Do you mean he makes ineffective passes along with his effective passes?
I think that is what BSM is saying, and he is right up to a point. Ball makes a lot of hot potato passes that don't accomplish much. He doesn't generate a lot of "hockey assists," either. BSM was exaggerating a little, but that's just message board talk.
These are interesting stats. Ball makes more passes than anyone other than Lebron, but the effectiveness of his passing is much less than Lebron, Rondo, and even some of the non-PGs. There is something comical about Bonga having a higher assist to pass ratio, but I think we can discard that as a statistical blip.
At 11.8, Ball makes the first page of the list, but he's pretty far down. If you sort for secondary assists ("hockey assists"), Ball does not even make the first page of the list. Likewise, Ball does not make the first page of the list for assist to pass ratio.
None of this is intended as an indictment of Ball as a player. These are not *bad* stats. However, it's useful to look at the hard, cold numbers every now and then. Ball's passing stats are just fair to good for a point guard. He does make a lot of passes that are not effective.
It begs the question. Are there such things as ineffective passes?
Yes. Besides turnovers, I'd consider passing up a shot for a worse shot to be an ineffective pass. Which I dont see him do as much.
The debatable one seem to be the passes that initiates the set. I think people seem to not like that. Even if the set calls for him to make the entry pass and then space out to a corner.
I’ll tell you guys something. Pre-Draft I wasn’t a Lonzo Ball fan. Nothing personal, I just thought there was too much ESPN/College basketball hype for him to live up to. Then everyone at LG wanted Lonzo and I just chalked it up to the whole UCLA/homegrown connection. Fast forward to today, if he can bring that intensity every night and continue to work on his game, the sky is the limit for this kid.
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:52 pm Post subject:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
epak wrote:
BlackStarMamba wrote:
its not the teammates, he doesn't make an EFFECTIVE pass.
You mentioned his highlight passes were effective. Do you mean he makes ineffective passes along with his effective passes?
I think that is what BSM is saying, and he is right up to a point. Ball makes a lot of hot potato passes that don't accomplish much. He doesn't generate a lot of "hockey assists," either. BSM was exaggerating a little, but that's just message board talk.
These are interesting stats. Ball makes more passes than anyone other than Lebron, but the effectiveness of his passing is much less than Lebron, Rondo, and even some of the non-PGs. There is something comical about Bonga having a higher assist to pass ratio, but I think we can discard that as a statistical blip.
At 11.8, Ball makes the first page of the list, but he's pretty far down. If you sort for secondary assists ("hockey assists"), Ball does not even make the first page of the list. Likewise, Ball does not make the first page of the list for assist to pass ratio.
None of this is intended as an indictment of Ball as a player. These are not *bad* stats. However, it's useful to look at the hard, cold numbers every now and then. Ball's passing stats are just fair to good for a point guard. He does make a lot of passes that are not effective.
He doesn't hold on to the ball long enough to rack up high assists (even hockey assists.) His style worked at UCLA because of they had move movement and better shooters, but our offense (maybe the NBA) is too centered around pick and rolls and off the dribble creation. It's a fair question to wonder if we'll ever see the supposed "Lonzo effect" we hoped for.
It begs the question. Are there such things as ineffective passes?
Yes. Besides turnovers, I'd consider passing up a shot for a worse shot to be an ineffective pass. Which I dont see him do as much.
The debatable one seem to be the passes that initiates the set. I think people seem to not like that. Even if the set calls for him to make the entry pass and then space out to a corner.
Every PG makes those passes. This includes Rondo and Lebron, and it includes most if not all of the other players who rank above Ball on the league passing charts. Not every pass is calculated to lead to an assist or points, yet Ball's passes generate fewer assists and points than many of his peers.
As to whether a pass is "ineffective," that invites a semantical argument. Let's not go there. You can argue that just about any completed pass is "effective" in some sense, but the result is to set the bar so low as to be meaningless. NBA players are not playing catch. At some point, the passer needs to generate points or at least improved scoring opportunities. Again, every pass will not do that, but we can track the number of passes that do.
Joined: 13 Jan 2002 Posts: 7924 Location: Lake Forest
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:03 pm Post subject:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
epak wrote:
BlackStarMamba wrote:
its not the teammates, he doesn't make an EFFECTIVE pass.
You mentioned his highlight passes were effective. Do you mean he makes ineffective passes along with his effective passes?
I think that is what BSM is saying, and he is right up to a point. Ball makes a lot of hot potato passes that don't accomplish much. He doesn't generate a lot of "hockey assists," either. BSM was exaggerating a little, but that's just message board talk.
These are interesting stats. Ball makes more passes than anyone other than Lebron, but the effectiveness of his passing is much less than Lebron, Rondo, and even some of the non-PGs. There is something comical about Bonga having a higher assist to pass ratio, but I think we can discard that as a statistical blip.
At 11.8, Ball makes the first page of the list, but he's pretty far down. If you sort for secondary assists ("hockey assists"), Ball does not even make the first page of the list. Likewise, Ball does not make the first page of the list for assist to pass ratio.
None of this is intended as an indictment of Ball as a player. These are not *bad* stats. However, it's useful to look at the hard, cold numbers every now and then. Ball's passing stats are just fair to good for a point guard. He does make a lot of passes that are not effective.
A lot of this speaks to Ball's lack of dribble penetration. He has zero gravity, so his assist opportunities are very limited if the other team is doing it's job in the half court. He's not a LeBron who takes one dribble and suddenly every other player has 4 feet of separation from their defender. We don't have a second threat to do that either. So it's iso - iso - P&R - iso oops, someone fell asleep and got back door cut - Yay it's an assist!
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:03 pm Post subject:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
epak wrote:
It begs the question. Are there such things as ineffective passes?
Yes. Besides turnovers, I'd consider passing up a shot for a worse shot to be an ineffective pass. Which I dont see him do as much.
The debatable one seem to be the passes that initiates the set. I think people seem to not like that. Even if the set calls for him to make the entry pass and then space out to a corner.
Every PG makes those passes. This includes Rondo and Lebron, and it includes most if not all of the other players who rank above Ball on the league passing charts. Not every pass is calculated to lead to an assist or points, yet Ball's passes generate fewer assists and points than many of his peers.
As to whether a pass is "ineffective," that invites a semantical argument. Let's not go there. You can argue that just about any completed pass is "effective" in some sense, but the result is to set the bar so low as to be meaningless. NBA players are not playing catch. At some point, the passer needs to generate points or at least improved scoring opportunities. Again, every pass will not do that, but we can track the number of passes that do.
No player or PG in the league advances the ball up floor with passes as much as Lonzo. He'll basically do it every time to the player who farthest up, regardless if they're in a scoring position or not.
He doesn't hold on to the ball long enough to rack up high assists (even hockey assists.) His style worked at UCLA because of they had move movement and better shooters, but our offense (maybe the NBA) is too centered around pick and rolls and off the dribble creation. It's a fair question to wonder if we'll ever see the supposed "Lonzo effect" we hoped for.
Sure. I can believe that Ball would be a more effective passer in a different sort of system (again, not that he is a bad passer now). But if we aren't going to run that sort of system, it's an academic point. If we are going to build a team around Lebron and, say, Durant, we certainly aren't going that direction.
Again, I don't mean that as an indictment of Ball. However, he is going to need to adapt his style to the team, not vice versa. With Lebron on the roster, he is the tail, not the dog.
Joined: 13 Sep 2008 Posts: 5735 Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:08 pm Post subject:
epak wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
epak wrote:
BlackStarMamba wrote:
its not the teammates, he doesn't make an EFFECTIVE pass.
You mentioned his highlight passes were effective. Do you mean he makes ineffective passes along with his effective passes?
I think that is what BSM is saying, and he is right up to a point. Ball makes a lot of hot potato passes that don't accomplish much. He doesn't generate a lot of "hockey assists," either. BSM was exaggerating a little, but that's just message board talk.
These are interesting stats. Ball makes more passes than anyone other than Lebron, but the effectiveness of his passing is much less than Lebron, Rondo, and even some of the non-PGs. There is something comical about Bonga having a higher assist to pass ratio, but I think we can discard that as a statistical blip.
At 11.8, Ball makes the first page of the list, but he's pretty far down. If you sort for secondary assists ("hockey assists"), Ball does not even make the first page of the list. Likewise, Ball does not make the first page of the list for assist to pass ratio.
None of this is intended as an indictment of Ball as a player. These are not *bad* stats. However, it's useful to look at the hard, cold numbers every now and then. Ball's passing stats are just fair to good for a point guard. He does make a lot of passes that are not effective.
It begs the question. Are there such things as ineffective passes?
Yes. Besides turnovers, I'd consider passing up a shot for a worse shot to be an ineffective pass. Which I dont see him do as much.
The debatable one seem to be the passes that initiates the set. I think people seem to not like that. Even if the set calls for him to make the entry pass and then space out to a corner.
I'd argue the unnecessary pass is an ineffective one. And Lonzo does seem to have quite a bit of unnecessary passes.
And - since AH beat me to it - I'd just reiterate his point. Lonzo passes up shots he should take far too often for my liking and these passes do not neccessary lead to better shots. A good example was that bullet pass from the beyond the arc (when he shoudl've shot it) to BI who was standing even further out.
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:10 pm Post subject:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
He doesn't hold on to the ball long enough to rack up high assists (even hockey assists.) His style worked at UCLA because of they had move movement and better shooters, but our offense (maybe the NBA) is too centered around pick and rolls and off the dribble creation. It's a fair question to wonder if we'll ever see the supposed "Lonzo effect" we hoped for.
Sure. I can believe that Ball would be a more effective passer in a different sort of system (again, not that he is a bad passer now). But if we aren't going to run that sort of system, it's an academic point. If we are going to build a team around Lebron and, say, Durant, we certainly aren't going that direction.
Again, I don't mean that as an indictment of Ball. However, he is going to need to adapt his style to the team, not vice versa. With Lebron on the roster, he is the tail, not the dog.
He never will rack up highs assist averages playing next to Lebron. That just goes with the territory. The fact that he's not doing it now without him I think was the poster's concern.
I noticed this too. Too many passes in the half court set that have no goal besides just getting the ball out of his hands no matter who it is. Example, tossing the ball to the center on the floor at the top of the key who then has to hunt down someone else to pass the ball to. That did nothing but waste half the shot clock.
its not the teammates, he doesn't make an EFFECTIVE pass.
You mentioned his highlight passes were effective. Do you mean he makes ineffective passes along with his effective passes?
I think that is what BSM is saying, and he is right up to a point. Ball makes a lot of hot potato passes that don't accomplish much. He doesn't generate a lot of "hockey assists," either. BSM was exaggerating a little, but that's just message board talk.
These are interesting stats. Ball makes more passes than anyone other than Lebron, but the effectiveness of his passing is much less than Lebron, Rondo, and even some of the non-PGs. There is something comical about Bonga having a higher assist to pass ratio, but I think we can discard that as a statistical blip.
At 11.8, Ball makes the first page of the list, but he's pretty far down. If you sort for secondary assists ("hockey assists"), Ball does not even make the first page of the list. Likewise, Ball does not make the first page of the list for assist to pass ratio.
None of this is intended as an indictment of Ball as a player. These are not *bad* stats. However, it's useful to look at the hard, cold numbers every now and then. Ball's passing stats are just fair to good for a point guard. He does make a lot of passes that are not effective.
It begs the question. Are there such things as ineffective passes?
Yes. Besides turnovers, I'd consider passing up a shot for a worse shot to be an ineffective pass. Which I dont see him do as much.
The debatable one seem to be the passes that initiates the set. I think people seem to not like that. Even if the set calls for him to make the entry pass and then space out to a corner.
I'd argue the unnecessary pass is an ineffective one. And Lonzo does seem to have quite a bit of unnecessary passes.
And - since AH beat me to it - I'd just reiterate his point. Lonzo passes up shots he should take far too often for my liking and these passes do not neccessary leade to better shots. A good example was that bullet pass from the beyond the arc (when he shoudl've shot it) to BI who was standing even further out.
Wouldn’t you prefer more players make what you deem unnecessary passes? Our offense sucks because we have very little ball movement. I think it’s an almost sure thing that our offense would be considerably better with more ball movement especially with LeBron out. The Lakers don’t move the ball enough and Zo is one of the few guys on the team who consistently makes the extra pass. Sometimes it leads to a worse shot but if more guys made those extra passes the offense would be much better off despite some overpassing. I miss the overpassing of the preseason that everybody was whining about. We’d be a better offense with it.
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:15 pm Post subject:
audioaxes wrote:
I noticed this too. Too many passes in the half court set that have no goal besides just getting the ball out of his hands no matter who it is. Example, tossing the ball to the center on the floor at the top of the key who then has to hunt down someone else to pass the ball to. That did nothing but waste half the shot clock.
Frankly, I think everyone does that. The center spot has been used for ball reversals since before he got here.
A lot of this speaks to Ball's lack of dribble penetration. He has zero gravity, so his assist opportunities are very limited if the other team is doing it's job in the half court. He's not a LeBron who takes one dribble and suddenly every other player has 4 feet of separation from their defender. We don't have a second threat to do that either. So it's iso - iso - P&R - iso oops, someone fell asleep and got back door cut - Yay it's an assist!
This is where Ball's scoring deficiencies have an impact on his overall offensive game. If he can make other teams respect his threes and drives, then it's a different ballgame. Maybe we will get there.
It begs the question. Are there such things as ineffective passes?
Yes. Besides turnovers, I'd consider passing up a shot for a worse shot to be an ineffective pass. Which I dont see him do as much.
The debatable one seem to be the passes that initiates the set. I think people seem to not like that. Even if the set calls for him to make the entry pass and then space out to a corner.
Every PG makes those passes. This includes Rondo and Lebron, and it includes most if not all of the other players who rank above Ball on the league passing charts. Not every pass is calculated to lead to an assist or points, yet Ball's passes generate fewer assists and points than many of his peers.
As to whether a pass is "ineffective," that invites a semantical argument. Let's not go there. You can argue that just about any completed pass is "effective" in some sense, but the result is to set the bar so low as to be meaningless. NBA players are not playing catch. At some point, the passer needs to generate points or at least improved scoring opportunities. Again, every pass will not do that, but we can track the number of passes that do.
Sure then. Would asst% be considered a good stat to compare? And would you consider Fox, Mitchell and DSJ his peers?
A lot of this speaks to Ball's lack of dribble penetration. He has zero gravity, so his assist opportunities are very limited if the other team is doing it's job in the half court. He's not a LeBron who takes one dribble and suddenly every other player has 4 feet of separation from their defender. We don't have a second threat to do that either. So it's iso - iso - P&R - iso oops, someone fell asleep and got back door cut - Yay it's an assist!
This is where Ball's scoring deficiencies have an impact on his overall offensive game. If he can make other teams respect his threes and drives, then it's a different ballgame. Maybe we will get there.
He's improving in both ways this season over last year. He doesn't have any herky-jerky to his game, and that will limit how many passing lanes he can create out of nothing. But his vision is top-notch, so if Rondo can teach him some more dribble penetration gimmicks, and/or how to master the P&R (more likely), then he'll really be on his way.
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