OFFICIAL LONZO BALL THREAD
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:23 pm    Post subject:

2019 wrote:
BynumForThree wrote:
What the Sixers also did was stockpile a bunch of assets and retain cap flexibility which the Lakers refused to do. Look at what Brooklyn got for a washed up Pierce and Garnett. The Lakers would've been in a much better position if they traded Kobe to a contender for picks and prospects. But what's done is done. Lakers have a ways to go before they catch up with Philly.


Lakers did the right thing by not trading Kobe. KG and Pierce were never anywhere near Kobe's level of impact/importance/generational dominance. They could have offered him less but that's it.

Lakers made the mistake of not trading Dwight and Pau when they had the chance. Pau's value dipped quickly so I guess that one was excusable but Dwight should have been traded. Hell, Brooklyn would have likely offered the same stuff Boston got for KG/PP...

He was a Laker for less than a year, and would've been an UFA in a few months after trading him. I guess they should've known it wasn't going to work by that trade deadline, but they were beginning to put it together a bit and make their playoff push. Regardless, the value for a Dwight rental wasn't going to be anywhere near what Boston got.

The deal they should've made the moment Howard walked, though, was to trade Pau. So I'll invert your criticism.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:48 pm    Post subject:

I was watching something on YouTube and I think Cris Carter was talking about Lonzos “benching” and mentioned that he was a defensive liability. It got me thinking about sports commentators, I believe that Lonzo is a plus defender right now. He has a DRTG of 101, which is pretty good..and it got me thinking about whether these commentators actually watch games and know about advanced stats. Many of them think that players like Wiggins and booker are good because they score points, which is very superficial.

Anyway, my question to the stat geeks. Lonzo has a +0.2 VORP. This blows me away, does this in fact mean that despite his shooting the rest of his game contributes more than the average NBA “replacement” at his position? Where does this “replacement” number come from?
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:53 pm    Post subject:

No one in media actually watch games. Media people think dsj and donovan mitchell have been balling out of their minds when in reality they're just streaky rookies like how they should be.

people think Josh Jackson is a good defender cause that's what he's been labeled as from the draft, but the reality is he's broke Wiggins right now.
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jonnybravo
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:02 pm    Post subject:

trashcan wrote:
No one in media actually watch games. Media people think dsj and donovan mitchell have been balling out of their minds when in reality they're just streaky rookies like how they should be.

people think Josh Jackson is a good defender cause that's what he's been labeled as from the draft, but the reality is he's broke Wiggins right now.


And the stupid narrative that Lonzo can't defend. For that position, he's a very good defender which is shocking given both the bill of sale coming out of college and his age. "B-b-but I saw him get blown by". Yeah, it's called defending point guards in the modern NBA. He's beyond a net positive defensively.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:58 am    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
trashcan wrote:
No one in media actually watch games. Media people think dsj and donovan mitchell have been balling out of their minds when in reality they're just streaky rookies like how they should be.

people think Josh Jackson is a good defender cause that's what he's been labeled as from the draft, but the reality is he's broke Wiggins right now.


And the stupid narrative that Lonzo can't defend. For that position, he's a very good defender which is shocking given both the bill of sale coming out of college and his age. "B-b-but I saw him get blown by". Yeah, it's called defending point guards in the modern NBA. He's beyond a net positive defensively.

With RPM showing unabashedly he's a good defender, I'd bank on the general narrative changing.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:41 am    Post subject:

trashcan wrote:
people think Josh Jackson is a good defender cause that's what he's been labeled as from the draft, but the reality is he's broke Wiggins right now.


I was skeptical of Josh Jackson immediately making the leap to elite defender, given Wiggins' struggles. It takes more than great athleticism to defend the perimeter at a high level.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:06 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
What's amazing is that the 76ers wrote off a 6th (Noel), 11th (MCW) and 3rd pick (Oak) and still have a crazy core.


Imagine if they'd drafted Porzingis instead of Okafor and Kristaps was in Philly now with Embiid, Simmons and Fultz.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:44 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
2019 wrote:
BynumForThree wrote:
What the Sixers also did was stockpile a bunch of assets and retain cap flexibility which the Lakers refused to do. Look at what Brooklyn got for a washed up Pierce and Garnett. The Lakers would've been in a much better position if they traded Kobe to a contender for picks and prospects. But what's done is done. Lakers have a ways to go before they catch up with Philly.


Lakers did the right thing by not trading Kobe. KG and Pierce were never anywhere near Kobe's level of impact/importance/generational dominance. They could have offered him less but that's it.

Lakers made the mistake of not trading Dwight and Pau when they had the chance. Pau's value dipped quickly so I guess that one was excusable but Dwight should have been traded. Hell, Brooklyn would have likely offered the same stuff Boston got for KG/PP...

He was a Laker for less than a year, and would've been an UFA in a few months after trading him. I guess they should've known it wasn't going to work by that trade deadline, but they were beginning to put it together a bit and make their playoff push. Regardless, the value for a Dwight rental wasn't going to be anywhere near what Boston got.

The deal they should've made the moment Howard walked, though, was to trade Pau. So I'll invert your criticism.


We would never have traded Kobe but the 3 year deal at the end, instead of starting over then, was a killer.

The "problem" per se with having a Kobe is not just the cost of his contract, but the roster decisions you will make as a result of having Kobe on your team also.

I'd argue we didn't trade Pau, in part, because we had Kobe rostered. Pau was his guy after all.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:46 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
What's amazing is that the 76ers wrote off a 6th (Noel), 11th (MCW) and 3rd pick (Oak) and still have a crazy core.


Imagine if they'd drafted Porzingis instead of Okafor and Kristaps was in Philly now with Embiid, Simmons and Fultz.


But that's the proof against those who cry "Lakers should have drafted Porky."

Even the analytics-minded 76ers passed on him (as did the TWolves and Lakers). Of course in hindsight it was probably the wrong move, but not certainly at the time.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:50 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
MJST wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
What's amazing is that the 76ers wrote off a 6th (Noel), 11th (MCW) and 3rd pick (Oak) and still have a crazy core.


Imagine if they'd drafted Porzingis instead of Okafor and Kristaps was in Philly now with Embiid, Simmons and Fultz.


But that's the proof against those who cry "Lakers should have drafted Porky."

Even the analytics-minded 76ers passed on him (as did the TWolves and Lakers). Of course in hindsight it was probably the wrong move, but not certainly at the time.


Yeah, I mean, there's no fool proof method and some luck is involved as well. Fwiw, Philly has a lot of young pieces that really nice. Covington, Saric are thriving there.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:53 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
MJST wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
What's amazing is that the 76ers wrote off a 6th (Noel), 11th (MCW) and 3rd pick (Oak) and still have a crazy core.


Imagine if they'd drafted Porzingis instead of Okafor and Kristaps was in Philly now with Embiid, Simmons and Fultz.


But that's the proof against those who cry "Lakers should have drafted Porky."

Even the analytics-minded 76ers passed on him (as did the TWolves and Lakers). Of course in hindsight it was probably the wrong move, but not certainly at the time.


Yeah, I mean, there's no fool proof method and some luck is involved as well. Fwiw, Philly has a lot of young pieces that really nice. Covington, Saric are thriving there.


Yeah. They just basically took a shotgun approach and tried to amass as many young pieces possible.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:57 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
MJST wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
What's amazing is that the 76ers wrote off a 6th (Noel), 11th (MCW) and 3rd pick (Oak) and still have a crazy core.


Imagine if they'd drafted Porzingis instead of Okafor and Kristaps was in Philly now with Embiid, Simmons and Fultz.


But that's the proof against those who cry "Lakers should have drafted Porky."

Even the analytics-minded 76ers passed on him (as did the TWolves and Lakers). Of course in hindsight it was probably the wrong move, but not certainly at the time.


Yeah, I mean, there's no fool proof method and some luck is involved as well. Fwiw, Philly has a lot of young pieces that really nice. Covington, Saric are thriving there.


Yeah. They just basically took a shotgun approach and tried to amass as many young pieces possible.


I believe that was the mission statement of The Process.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:59 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
MJST wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
What's amazing is that the 76ers wrote off a 6th (Noel), 11th (MCW) and 3rd pick (Oak) and still have a crazy core.


Imagine if they'd drafted Porzingis instead of Okafor and Kristaps was in Philly now with Embiid, Simmons and Fultz.


But that's the proof against those who cry "Lakers should have drafted Porky."

Even the analytics-minded 76ers passed on him (as did the TWolves and Lakers). Of course in hindsight it was probably the wrong move, but not certainly at the time.


Yeah, I mean, there's no fool proof method and some luck is involved as well. Fwiw, Philly has a lot of young pieces that really nice. Covington, Saric are thriving there.


Yeah. They just basically took a shotgun approach and tried to amass as many young pieces possible.


I believe that was the mission statement of The Process.


Absolutely.

And amazingly, nearly half of their lottery picks either were traded/didn't pan out/TBD.

Yet, they hit at the margins (i.e. Covington, #1 rated RPM on ESPN SF, #6 overall), and hit the jackpot with guys like Simmons/Embiid (*health permitting).
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:36 am    Post subject:

And that's the key to the rebuilding process because you're not going to hit on all of your picks so you have to select and retain those pieces.

What's crazy about Covington is that he went undrafted, signed by Rockets and released.

Another "proof" that there is some luck in the draft as well since all teams passed on him multiple times.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:14 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
What's amazing is that the 76ers wrote off a 6th (Noel), 11th (MCW) and 3rd pick (Oak) and still have a crazy core.


Imagine if they'd drafted Porzingis instead of Okafor and Kristaps was in Philly now with Embiid, Simmons and Fultz.


Can you imagine if we'd drafted Porzingis!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:16 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
And that's the key to the rebuilding process because you're not going to hit on all of your picks so you have to select and retain those pieces.

What's crazy about Covington is that he went undrafted, signed by Rockets and released.

Another "proof" that there is some luck in the draft as well since all teams passed on him multiple times.


There are players who are late bloomers or went to small schools where they did not get much national exposure.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:43 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:

Absolutely.

And amazingly, nearly half of their lottery picks either were traded/didn't pan out/TBD.

Yet, they hit at the margins (i.e. Covington, #1 rated RPM on ESPN SF, #6 overall), and hit the jackpot with guys like Simmons/Embiid (*health permitting).

How about them Celtics, though?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:45 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:

Absolutely.

And amazingly, nearly half of their lottery picks either were traded/didn't pan out/TBD.

Yet, they hit at the margins (i.e. Covington, #1 rated RPM on ESPN SF, #6 overall), and hit the jackpot with guys like Simmons/Embiid (*health permitting).

How about them Celtics, though?


Buck Foston.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:02 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:

Absolutely.

And amazingly, nearly half of their lottery picks either were traded/didn't pan out/TBD.

Yet, they hit at the margins (i.e. Covington, #1 rated RPM on ESPN SF, #6 overall), and hit the jackpot with guys like Simmons/Embiid (*health permitting).

How about them Celtics, though?


Buck Foston.



Well, the Celtics process has been far more impressive than the Sixers. There's a reason why Hinkie only looked up to Danny Ainge.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:04 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:

Absolutely.

And amazingly, nearly half of their lottery picks either were traded/didn't pan out/TBD.

Yet, they hit at the margins (i.e. Covington, #1 rated RPM on ESPN SF, #6 overall), and hit the jackpot with guys like Simmons/Embiid (*health permitting).

How about them Celtics, though?


Buck Foston.



Well, the Celtics process has been far more impressive than the Sixers. There's a reason why Hinkie only looked up to Danny Ainge.


I think the whole Billy King robbery really set this whole thing up. I mean without those picks, they don't have Brown, Kyrie, and Tatum, no?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:24 am    Post subject:

Dr. Funkbot wrote:
MJST wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
What's amazing is that the 76ers wrote off a 6th (Noel), 11th (MCW) and 3rd pick (Oak) and still have a crazy core.


Imagine if they'd drafted Porzingis instead of Okafor and Kristaps was in Philly now with Embiid, Simmons and Fultz.


Can you imagine if we'd drafted Porzingis!!!!!!!!!!!!!


LG would've melted down, LA folks woulda cry on the street, would been ugly
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:33 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:

Absolutely.

And amazingly, nearly half of their lottery picks either were traded/didn't pan out/TBD.

Yet, they hit at the margins (i.e. Covington, #1 rated RPM on ESPN SF, #6 overall), and hit the jackpot with guys like Simmons/Embiid (*health permitting).

How about them Celtics, though?


Buck Foston.



Well, the Celtics process has been far more impressive than the Sixers. There's a reason why Hinkie only looked up to Danny Ainge.


I think the whole Billy King robbery really set this whole thing up. I mean without those picks, they don't have Brown, Kyrie, and Tatum, no?

True, but that robbery is exactly what Hinkie prided himself on. The Kings trade was almost nearly as brilliant - it put Colangelo in position to get his man Fultz and a likely top-10 pick this year or next.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:37 am    Post subject:

On DLo/Porzingis - if both Ball and Tatum end up being good to great players, but Tatum is better at the end of the day, Maginka don't deserve to get trashed for still coming away with a damn good player.

And if Ball ends up being the best player in a talented draft, all the kudos for Maginka and the front office.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:27 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
What's amazing is that the 76ers wrote off a 6th (Noel), 11th (MCW) and 3rd pick (Oak) and still have a crazy core.


Imagine if they'd drafted Porzingis instead of Okafor and Kristaps was in Philly now with Embiid, Simmons and Fultz.


Had Philly drafted KP they might not have been in a position to draft Simmons or retain their no.1 pick this past draft.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:35 am    Post subject:

BynumForThree wrote:
What the Sixers also did was stockpile a bunch of assets and retain cap flexibility which the Lakers refused to do. Look at what Brooklyn got for a washed up Pierce and Garnett. The Lakers would've been in a much better position if they traded Kobe to a contender for picks and prospects. But what's done is done. Lakers have a ways to go before they catch up with Philly.


This whole "Sixers were right - The Process worked!!" narrative being floated around is a load of crap. Last time I checked they haven't been competitive in the East for a decade and a half and haven't won a 'ship in over 30 years. They should in no way, shape, or form be compared to the Lakers.

And you may as well revoke your Lakers fan card if you truly believe that the Lakers should have traded Kobe. Shame.


Last edited by Ujah's Goat on Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:27 am; edited 1 time in total
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