OFFICIAL LONZO BALL THREAD
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:21 pm    Post subject:

Since this is the LaMelo thread now, how about a comparison with Trae Young? Like a bigger Trae Young?
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Joe Pesci
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:29 pm    Post subject:

If La Melo Ball and his family want him here so bad that they enter the 2020 draft truly prepared to ONLY play for the Lakers, prepared to forego two years after refusing to play for a team, other than the Lakers, that drafts you, prepared to become an unprecedented rookie free agent in 2022 thatíll sign for whatever the Lakers can afford, Iím all for it.

Heís a blue-chipper, whatever that means, and heíll be served up to the Lakers on a platter for probably pennies all because he just really, really wants to play on the Lakers.

Sounds like loyalty and Laker love to me. Whatís the problem again?
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SocalDevin
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:38 pm    Post subject:

You guys had me spend a good 15 minutes watchin Kid Melo with this he's better than Lonzo talk lol... I don't think so.. maybe later.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:51 pm    Post subject:

Here are all of the 5-man lineups that Lonzo's been in that've played at least 10 minutes together, and their Net Rating:

Different PF Options

Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Randle + Lopez...................+32.7 (12 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Lopez......................-2.8 (217 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Lopez.......................-9.7 (155 minutes)

Different C Options

Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Randle..................+28.6 (52 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Lopez.......................-9.7 (155 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Bogut.....................-11.5 (11 minutes)

Overall

Lonzo + Clarkson + Blue + Kuzma + Randle................+40.2 (10 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Randle + Lopez....................+32.7 (12 minutes)
Lonzo + Clarkson + Brewer + Kuzma + Randle............+31.6 (13 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Randle..................+28.6 (52 minutes)
Lonzo + Brewer + Ingram + Nance + Lopez................+22.3 (24 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Clarkson + Ingram + Randle................+18.0 (24 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Hart + Kuzma + Randle........................+0.2 (18 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Lopez......................-2.8 (217 minutes)
Lonzo + Brewer + Ingram + Kuzma + Lopez..................-8.9 (10 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Lopez.......................-9.7 (155 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Bogut.....................-11.5 (11 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Randle....................-19.8 (10 minutes)
Lonzo + Deng + Ingram + Nance + Lopez....................-26.8 (13 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Clarkson + Kuzma + Randle..................-28.6 (16 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Nance.....................-93.8 (12 minutes)
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:56 pm    Post subject:

LakersNewEra wrote:
Here is a breakdown of LaMelo's shooting mechanics.

https://youtu.be/dJFrTRRztg8

He is an absolute shooting phenom! Comparisons to Curry are very much unavoidable and on point. As you can see, there is either very little thats wrong with his shooting or in a lot of cases a lot of things he does with his feet and his hips actually make it possible for him to generate that power and shoot from deep. His range is already ridiculous and bear in mind he will get stronger.
I especially liked the point that LaMelo is laser focused on the rim even before the final dribble, his hand eye coordination.

All in all, LaMelo will be amazing and yes IMO he is already better than Lonzo, especially for the NBA.
He just needs to learn the game, needs to learn to play in a system etc. That will come. But the individual talent is there and it looks amazing.

Lonzo on the other hand doesnt have that kind of ceiling IMO. I dont think its even close but Lonzo can become a good player in his own right if he improves his shooting.

I canít tell if youíre being sarcastic or not....
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AY2043
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:57 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Here are all of the 5-man lineups that Lonzo's been in that've played at least 10 minutes together, and their Net Rating:

Different PF Options

Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Randle + Lopez...................+32.7 (12 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Lopez......................-2.8 (217 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Lopez.......................-9.7 (155 minutes)

Different C Options

Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Randle..................+28.6 (52 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Lopez.......................-9.7 (155 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Bogut.....................-11.5 (11 minutes)

Overall

Lonzo + Clarkson + Blue + Kuzma + Randle................+40.2 (10 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Randle + Lopez....................+32.7 (12 minutes)
Lonzo + Clarkson + Brewer + Kuzma + Randle............+31.6 (13 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Randle..................+28.6 (52 minutes)
Lonzo + Brewer + Ingram + Nance + Lopez................+22.3 (24 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Clarkson + Ingram + Randle................+18.0 (24 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Hart + Kuzma + Randle........................+0.2 (18 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Lopez......................-2.8 (217 minutes)
Lonzo + Brewer + Ingram + Kuzma + Lopez..................-8.9 (10 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Lopez.......................-9.7 (155 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Bogut.....................-11.5 (11 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Randle....................-19.8 (10 minutes)
Lonzo + Deng + Ingram + Nance + Lopez....................-26.8 (13 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Clarkson + Kuzma + Randle..................-28.6 (16 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Nance.....................-93.8 (12 minutes)

So basically start Kuzma.
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mookielala
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:01 pm    Post subject:

AY2043 wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Here are all of the 5-man lineups that Lonzo's been in that've played at least 10 minutes together, and their Net Rating:

Different PF Options

Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Randle + Lopez...................+32.7 (12 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Lopez......................-2.8 (217 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Lopez.......................-9.7 (155 minutes)

Different C Options

Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Randle..................+28.6 (52 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Lopez.......................-9.7 (155 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Bogut.....................-11.5 (11 minutes)

Overall

Lonzo + Clarkson + Blue + Kuzma + Randle................+40.2 (10 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Randle + Lopez....................+32.7 (12 minutes)
Lonzo + Clarkson + Brewer + Kuzma + Randle............+31.6 (13 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Randle..................+28.6 (52 minutes)
Lonzo + Brewer + Ingram + Nance + Lopez................+22.3 (24 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Clarkson + Ingram + Randle................+18.0 (24 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Hart + Kuzma + Randle........................+0.2 (18 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Lopez......................-2.8 (217 minutes)
Lonzo + Brewer + Ingram + Kuzma + Lopez..................-8.9 (10 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Lopez.......................-9.7 (155 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Bogut.....................-11.5 (11 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Randle....................-19.8 (10 minutes)
Lonzo + Deng + Ingram + Nance + Lopez....................-26.8 (13 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Clarkson + Kuzma + Randle..................-28.6 (16 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Nance.....................-93.8 (12 minutes)

So basically start Kuzma.


I think JR is the standout in this stat line.
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SocalDevin
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:03 pm    Post subject:

Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Randle..................+28.6 (52 minutes)

Proof that the majority of LG has it right.. I believe the consensus is most of us would like that to be our starting line up.
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LakersNewEra
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:07 pm    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
If La Melo Ball and his family want him here so bad that they enter the 2020 draft truly prepared to ONLY play for the Lakers, prepared to forego two years after refusing to play for a team, other than the Lakers, that drafts you, prepared to become an unprecedented rookie free agent in 2022 thatíll sign for whatever the Lakers can afford, Iím all for it.

Heís a blue-chipper, whatever that means, and heíll be served up to the Lakers on a platter for probably pennies all because he just really, really wants to play on the Lakers.

Sounds like loyalty and Laker love to me. Whatís the problem again?



Its not Lakers love. I think Lavar makes it about himself in the end and this would be no exception. Can you imagine for example if LaMelo and Lonzo are Lakers best players? Imagine the kind of control LaVar would have and he would know it.
Honestly a guy like LaVar at that point he would be asking for an ownership stake. Im not kidding.

So all in all as good as Melo will be and he is by far the most skilled 15 year old that I have ever seen, things hes capable of doing at 15 shouldnt be normal even for NBA players...but yeah as good as he is there will be other superstars in the league.
If Lavar would have that kind of control and that much of a pull...then he would be a problem.
I dont think even the front office role would suffice. He would want a percentage of ownership IMO.
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mookielala
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:10 pm    Post subject:

mookielala wrote:
AY2043 wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Here are all of the 5-man lineups that Lonzo's been in that've played at least 10 minutes together, and their Net Rating:

Different PF Options

Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Randle + Lopez...................+32.7 (12 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Lopez......................-2.8 (217 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Lopez.......................-9.7 (155 minutes)

Different C Options

Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Randle..................+28.6 (52 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Lopez.......................-9.7 (155 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Bogut.....................-11.5 (11 minutes)

Overall

Lonzo + Clarkson + Blue + Kuzma + Randle................+40.2 (10 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Randle + Lopez....................+32.7 (12 minutes)
Lonzo + Clarkson + Brewer + Kuzma + Randle............+31.6 (13 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Randle..................+28.6 (52 minutes)
Lonzo + Brewer + Ingram + Nance + Lopez................+22.3 (24 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Clarkson + Ingram + Randle................+18.0 (24 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Hart + Kuzma + Randle........................+0.2 (18 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Lopez......................-2.8 (217 minutes)
Lonzo + Brewer + Ingram + Kuzma + Lopez..................-8.9 (10 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Lopez.......................-9.7 (155 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Bogut.....................-11.5 (11 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Randle....................-19.8 (10 minutes)
Lonzo + Deng + Ingram + Nance + Lopez....................-26.8 (13 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Clarkson + Kuzma + Randle..................-28.6 (16 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Nance.....................-93.8 (12 minutes)

So basically start Kuzma.


I think JR is the standout in this stat line.


Thinking further, it could be also be that these JR lineups played against more second team players. Still, he seems to be more dependably effective this year than Lopez.
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AY2043
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:12 pm    Post subject:

mookielala wrote:
AY2043 wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Here are all of the 5-man lineups that Lonzo's been in that've played at least 10 minutes together, and their Net Rating:

Different PF Options

Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Randle + Lopez...................+32.7 (12 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Lopez......................-2.8 (217 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Lopez.......................-9.7 (155 minutes)

Different C Options

Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Randle..................+28.6 (52 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Lopez.......................-9.7 (155 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Bogut.....................-11.5 (11 minutes)

Overall

Lonzo + Clarkson + Blue + Kuzma + Randle................+40.2 (10 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Randle + Lopez....................+32.7 (12 minutes)
Lonzo + Clarkson + Brewer + Kuzma + Randle............+31.6 (13 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Randle..................+28.6 (52 minutes)
Lonzo + Brewer + Ingram + Nance + Lopez................+22.3 (24 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Clarkson + Ingram + Randle................+18.0 (24 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Hart + Kuzma + Randle........................+0.2 (18 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Lopez......................-2.8 (217 minutes)
Lonzo + Brewer + Ingram + Kuzma + Lopez..................-8.9 (10 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Lopez.......................-9.7 (155 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Bogut.....................-11.5 (11 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Randle....................-19.8 (10 minutes)
Lonzo + Deng + Ingram + Nance + Lopez....................-26.8 (13 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Clarkson + Kuzma + Randle..................-28.6 (16 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Nance.....................-93.8 (12 minutes)

So basically start Kuzma.


I think JR is the standout in this stat line.

Youíre right, misread that.

So basically, start Kuzma and Randle haha
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epak
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:01 am    Post subject:

Starting Kuz with Julius would be something to see.
But I'm waiting for Alex to come back up in the middle of the season and play next to Lonzo.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:04 am    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Randle..................+28.6 (52 minutes)

Proof that the majority of LG has it right.. I believe the consensus is most of us would like that to be our starting line up.


Yeah, pretty much. Why our coaching staff canít see whatís pretty obvious from the actual games is beyond me.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:19 am    Post subject:

The only way the other two Ball brothers play in the NBA is if a team is drafting them for the publicity that comes with them.

Neither of them will be NBA players based on skill and talent level.

Even Lonzo's value was inflated by the media hype - which likely played a role in the Lakers drafting him.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:32 am    Post subject:

mookielala wrote:
Thinking further, it could be also be that these JR lineups played against more second team players. Still, he seems to be more dependably effective this year than Lopez.


In some cases, yes, but Randle's the Center that closes games for us rather than Lopez. He's played against plenty of starters, but it's usually at the end of games rather than the beginning. That one lineup that's played 52 minutes and has a +28.6 Net Rtg is the starting lineup with him in place of Lopez and Kuzma (who was a starter until recently) in place of Nance.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:00 am    Post subject:

LakersNewEra wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
If La Melo Ball and his family want him here so bad that they enter the 2020 draft truly prepared to ONLY play for the Lakers, prepared to forego two years after refusing to play for a team, other than the Lakers, that drafts you, prepared to become an unprecedented rookie free agent in 2022 thatíll sign for whatever the Lakers can afford, Iím all for it.

Heís a blue-chipper, whatever that means, and heíll be served up to the Lakers on a platter for probably pennies all because he just really, really wants to play on the Lakers.

Sounds like loyalty and Laker love to me. Whatís the problem again?



Its not Lakers love. I think Lavar makes it about himself in the end and this would be no exception. Can you imagine for example if LaMelo and Lonzo are Lakers best players? Imagine the kind of control LaVar would have and he would know it.
Honestly a guy like LaVar at that point he would be asking for an ownership stake. Im not kidding.

So all in all as good as Melo will be and he is by far the most skilled 15 year old that I have ever seen, things hes capable of doing at 15 shouldnt be normal even for NBA players...but yeah as good as he is there will be other superstars in the league.
If Lavar would have that kind of control and that much of a pull...then he would be a problem.
I dont think even the front office role would suffice. He would want a percentage of ownership IMO.

Thatís all well and good, but are you really saying that if Melo Ball is gift wrapped for you at some paltry one million/yr deal, you wouldnít sign him?

I hear everything youíre saying, but is the fear of Daddy enough to pass on golden opportunity?

I say youíd be a damn fool to not sign the kid for peanuts if he waits for you for two years in order to sign with you.
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Joe Pesci
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:08 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Here are all of the 5-man lineups that Lonzo's been in that've played at least 10 minutes together, and their Net Rating:

Different PF Options

Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Randle + Lopez...................+32.7 (12 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Lopez......................-2.8 (217 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Lopez.......................-9.7 (155 minutes)

Different C Options

Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Randle..................+28.6 (52 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Lopez.......................-9.7 (155 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Bogut.....................-11.5 (11 minutes)

Overall

Lonzo + Clarkson + Blue + Kuzma + Randle................+40.2 (10 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Randle + Lopez....................+32.7 (12 minutes)
Lonzo + Clarkson + Brewer + Kuzma + Randle............+31.6 (13 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Randle..................+28.6 (52 minutes)
Lonzo + Brewer + Ingram + Nance + Lopez................+22.3 (24 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Clarkson + Ingram + Randle................+18.0 (24 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Hart + Kuzma + Randle........................+0.2 (18 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Lopez......................-2.8 (217 minutes)
Lonzo + Brewer + Ingram + Kuzma + Lopez..................-8.9 (10 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Lopez.......................-9.7 (155 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Bogut.....................-11.5 (11 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Randle....................-19.8 (10 minutes)
Lonzo + Deng + Ingram + Nance + Lopez....................-26.8 (13 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Clarkson + Kuzma + Randle..................-28.6 (16 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Nance.....................-93.8 (12 minutes)

Good, good stuff.

Start Clarkson until heís traded (Ingram off bench).
After Clarkson trade, start Ingram again.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:27 am    Post subject:

Looks like Vander needs some more playing time...
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:33 am    Post subject:

LakerMindLA wrote:
The only way the other two Ball brothers play in the NBA is if a team is drafting them for the publicity that comes with them.

Neither of them will be NBA players based on skill and talent level.


I hope the Celtics should make your their head scout.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:30 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Nance.....................-93.8 (12 minutes)


Yikes. I wish we could have those 12 minutes back.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:56 am    Post subject:

I've got buyers remorse with Lonzo, we could have done better.

With regards to the other Ball kids, a I would wait to see who is on the
market when the time comes. No need for the Lakers to continue to
be a weak team just to temporarily satisfy the LA based fan and
risk being a crappy team. The FO has to evaluate all available talent,
no matter where they are from, when the time comes.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:54 am    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Randle..................+28.6 (52 minutes)

Proof that the majority of LG has it right.. I believe the consensus is most of us would like that to be our starting line up.




I had thought starting Randle at center might be a bad idea because he'd get worn out playing too much time against bigger players, but now I figure it's worth a shot. They'll get worn out trying to run with him, too. And Slowpez is a hindrance to Lonzo and the team's transition game.
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PHILosophize
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:57 am    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Randle..................+28.6 (52 minutes)

Proof that the majority of LG has it right.. I believe the consensus is most of us would like that to be our starting line up.


yup
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:05 am    Post subject:

PHILosophize wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Randle..................+28.6 (52 minutes)

Proof that the majority of LG has it right.. I believe the consensus is most of us would like that to be our starting line up.


yup


With that lineup, IF we could get a bit more consistent outside shooting from Randle & Ingram to go long w/Kuzma's stroke, (KCP is classic streaky) that could be our version of a "death" lineup in this era of small ballers.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:17 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Here are all of the 5-man lineups that Lonzo's been in that've played at least 10 minutes together, and their Net Rating:


How do they compare to the lineup's without Lonzo?
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