OFFICIAL LONZO BALL THREAD
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 758, 759, 760 ... 778, 779, 780  Next

 
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge Reply to topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
lakersfan85
Sixth Man
Sixth Man


Joined: 02 Nov 2016
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:20 am    Post subject:

LakersNewEra wrote:
LaMelo is more along the lines of a Chris Mullin, Reggie Miller..guys like that. Guys with a form a little unorthodox but nonetheless were great shooters.
Lets make a political metaphor here. Lets say political center is the ideal shootinf form. Well LaMelo is slightly left or right, whichever you will....on the other hand Lonzo is extreme. His shooting form is extreme. No way is it comparable to LaMelo who is a great great shooter despite a shooting form thats a bit different.

Also, LaMelo gets compared to Curry, best shooter ever. Yet you're saying hes going to be worse than Lonzo, one of the worst shooters ever statistically? Doesnt work like that.
Also yes LaMelo's shooting selection is bad in a Kobe kinda way bad. Its bad because hes got ability and he knows it. Lonzo on the other hand doesnt have abillity. His shot selecton is bad because he is bad. And its historically bad.

No comparison. Besides LaMelo shoots anyway possible over people, release is fast, he is the real deal and rightly compared to Curry IMO. He's fine with the shooting form as it is for him, just like Mullen and Reggie were fine.


It is an insult to compare Lamelo to Curry/Mullin/Miller as shooters. Seems like you are watching highlights and not looking at percentages. He has the ultimate green light and can make tough shots but he isn't a great shooter like the above.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
lakerican
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 1289

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:35 am    Post subject:

If I was Magic, i just call Lavar and inform him The lakers is sending Bonzo to the G-League so he can play more minutes and work in his ugly shot he teach him.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
OCWA
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 1662

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:39 am    Post subject:

AY2043 wrote:
mookielala wrote:
AY2043 wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Here are all of the 5-man lineups that Lonzo's been in that've played at least 10 minutes together, and their Net Rating:

Different PF Options

Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Randle + Lopez...................+32.7 (12 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Lopez......................-2.8 (217 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Lopez.......................-9.7 (155 minutes)

Different C Options

Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Randle..................+28.6 (52 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Lopez.......................-9.7 (155 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Bogut.....................-11.5 (11 minutes)

Overall

Lonzo + Clarkson + Blue + Kuzma + Randle................+40.2 (10 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Randle + Lopez....................+32.7 (12 minutes)
Lonzo + Clarkson + Brewer + Kuzma + Randle............+31.6 (13 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Randle..................+28.6 (52 minutes)
Lonzo + Brewer + Ingram + Nance + Lopez................+22.3 (24 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Clarkson + Ingram + Randle................+18.0 (24 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Hart + Kuzma + Randle........................+0.2 (18 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Lopez......................-2.8 (217 minutes)
Lonzo + Brewer + Ingram + Kuzma + Lopez..................-8.9 (10 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Lopez.......................-9.7 (155 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Bogut.....................-11.5 (11 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Randle....................-19.8 (10 minutes)
Lonzo + Deng + Ingram + Nance + Lopez....................-26.8 (13 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Clarkson + Kuzma + Randle..................-28.6 (16 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Nance.....................-93.8 (12 minutes)

So basically start Kuzma.


I think JR is the standout in this stat line.

You’re right, misread that.

So basically, start Kuzma and Randle haha


Don't start Lopez or Nance is my take away.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
LakerSD
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 3025

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:42 am    Post subject:

GT, I think you should “accidentally” drop on the floor at the practice facility, a print out of the lineup data. Maybe it will eventually make it to the desk of this new director of analytics
_________________
I use #analytics and #eyetest. I’m dangerous.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Fracture
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 6437
Location: Planet Terror

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:45 am    Post subject:

lakerican wrote:
If I was Magic, i just call Lavar and inform him The lakers is sending Bonzo to the G-League so he can play more minutes and work in his ugly shot he teach him.


Good thing you're not Magic.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
OCWA
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 1662

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:45 am    Post subject:

Every TV at the practice facility should have Laker Film Room videos playing on a loop.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Nash Vegas
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 01 Sep 2012
Posts: 2484

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:52 am    Post subject:

OCWA wrote:
AY2043 wrote:
mookielala wrote:
AY2043 wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Here are all of the 5-man lineups that Lonzo's been in that've played at least 10 minutes together, and their Net Rating:

Different PF Options

Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Randle + Lopez...................+32.7 (12 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Lopez......................-2.8 (217 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Lopez.......................-9.7 (155 minutes)

Different C Options

Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Randle..................+28.6 (52 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Lopez.......................-9.7 (155 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Bogut.....................-11.5 (11 minutes)

Overall

Lonzo + Clarkson + Blue + Kuzma + Randle................+40.2 (10 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Randle + Lopez....................+32.7 (12 minutes)
Lonzo + Clarkson + Brewer + Kuzma + Randle............+31.6 (13 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Randle..................+28.6 (52 minutes)
Lonzo + Brewer + Ingram + Nance + Lopez................+22.3 (24 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Clarkson + Ingram + Randle................+18.0 (24 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Hart + Kuzma + Randle........................+0.2 (18 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Lopez......................-2.8 (217 minutes)
Lonzo + Brewer + Ingram + Kuzma + Lopez..................-8.9 (10 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Lopez.......................-9.7 (155 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Bogut.....................-11.5 (11 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Randle....................-19.8 (10 minutes)
Lonzo + Deng + Ingram + Nance + Lopez....................-26.8 (13 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Clarkson + Kuzma + Randle..................-28.6 (16 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Nance.....................-93.8 (12 minutes)

So basically start Kuzma.


I think JR is the standout in this stat line.

You’re right, misread that.

So basically, start Kuzma and Randle haha


Don't start Lopez or Nance is my take away.


This.

-9.7 net loss every game on all those minutes played from here on out is disgusting. Ties into the other thread why Lakers are 0-13 when always trailing after the 1st quarter.
_________________
Marcellus Wiley
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Don Draper
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 25189
Location: RIP DLO

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:30 am    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
GT, I think you should “accidentally” drop on the floor at the practice facility, a print out of the lineup data. Maybe it will eventually make it to the desk of this new director of analytics


I'm sure Luke has the data, he's just too much of a stubborn oaf to admit when he's wrong. Also, he envisions himself as a player development coach first and foremost, so it doesn't matter if a particular lineup is best if Luke thinks guys in that lineup (Kuzma) will develop better watching from the bench.
_________________
Lonzo Ball Projected 2017-18 Stats: 16pts/8asts/5rebs
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
LandsbergerRules
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 6645
Location: The Other Perspective

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:35 am    Post subject:

AY2043 wrote:
mookielala wrote:


I think JR is the standout in this stat line.

You’re right, misread that.

So basically, start Kuzma and Randle haha



At least start one of them, unlike whatever the heck Luke is thinking.
_________________
"Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Dr. Funkbot
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 24 Sep 2001
Posts: 7155
Location: Eagle Rock

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:38 am    Post subject:

deal wrote:
I've got buyers remorse with Lonzo, we could have done better.

With regards to the other Ball kids, a I would wait to see who is on the
market when the time comes. No need for the Lakers to continue to
be a weak team just to temporarily satisfy the LA based fan and
risk being a crappy team. The FO has to evaluate all available talent,
no matter where they are from, when the time comes.


In my opinion it is way too early to write off Lonzo. In my opinion many people don't have any patience. He is a kid and kids in the NBA usually struggle for a while. He has played 23 games. Plus he is leading his guard draft class in steals, rebounds, blocks and assists.
_________________
R.I.P. Doc Buss

"I think we often overlook the best way for a team like these Lakers to obtain star level players is to turn their current players into stars, rather than looking for outside help."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Dr. Funkbot
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 24 Sep 2001
Posts: 7155
Location: Eagle Rock

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:39 am    Post subject:

In my opinion the game tonight can not come soon enough. Man these long stretches with nothing fresh to talk about are killing me!

Lonzo is going to come out tonight strong and people will be like, I love lonzo, hes great ect.
_________________
R.I.P. Doc Buss

"I think we often overlook the best way for a team like these Lakers to obtain star level players is to turn their current players into stars, rather than looking for outside help."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
adkindo
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 15860
Location: Dirty South

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:47 am    Post subject:

If you look at all lineups that have played at least 10 minutes, there are 22 different lineups. 11 of them have a positive net rating, and of course that leaves 11 lineups with negative net ratings.

Of the 11 positive net rating lineups, the following primary players appear in:

Randle - 9 of 11
Clarkson - 7 of 11
Ball - 7 of 11
Kuzma - 7 of 11
Ingram - 6 of 11
KCP - 5 of 11
Lopez - 3 of 11
Nance - 1 of 11

Of the 11 negative net rating lineups, the following primary players appear in:

Ball - 8 of 11
KCP - 8 of 11
Ingram - 8 of 11
Kuzma - 6 of 11
Randle - 5 of 11
Nance - 5 of 11
Lopez - 4 of 11
Clarkson - 4 of 11


There are obviously several other factors that need to be considered such as opponent, positive or negative rating margin, etc. A simple one is total minutes played on the season...the more minutes played, the more likely it is a player will show up on both lists more often.

Ingram - 774 Total Minutes
Ball - 757 Total Minutes
KCP - 721 Total Minutes
Kuzma - 680 Total Minutes
Lopez - 532 Total Minutes
Clarkson - 524 Total Minutes
Randle - 503 Total Minutes
Nance - 291 Total Minutes

Make what you want of the information, but a few things that stand out to me

-- Clarkson and Randle have significantly less minutes, but still appear in the majority of positive net rating lineups, and a minority of the negative net rating lineups
-- Due to injury, Nance has played far less minutes, but is in 5 of the 11 negative net rating lineups
-- Ingram, Ball and KCP play the most minutes, which helps explain why they are in the most negative net rating lineups, but KCP is in only 5 of the positive net rating lineups
-- Lopez and Kuzma, considering their minutes, appear to be mostly a wash on each side of the net rating lineups.
_________________
"Lonzo Ball is the headline, Kyle Kuzma is the STORY!" Jalen Rose
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
GoldenThroat
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 35158

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:49 am    Post subject:

Thanks for taking the time to do that research, adkindo.
_________________
If you have any tickets to buy for anything coming up, use the Promo Code: LFR to get $20 your first order on SeatGeek. Sign-up Here: https://sg.app.link/lfr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
adkindo
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 15860
Location: Dirty South

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:10 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to do that research, adkindo.


I can't make much of it....after I was finished, I thought a closing lineup of Ball, Clarkson, Ingram, Kuzma and Randle may do well....then I looked, and that lineup has played together.

7 Minutes - 45 Off. Rating / 164.9 Def. Rating / -119.9 Net Rating ... ...
_________________
"Lonzo Ball is the headline, Kyle Kuzma is the STORY!" Jalen Rose
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
GoldenThroat
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 35158

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:29 am    Post subject:

Here are the Net Ratings of Lonzo's 2-Man Lineups

Lonzo + Blue...........+34.7 (16 minutes)
Lonzo + Randle..........+3.8 (227 minutes)
Lonzo + Clarkson........-2.0 (190 minutes)
Lonzo + Hart..............-2.0 (62 minutes)
Lonzo + Brewer...........-3.2 (93 minutes)
Lonzo + Lopez............-3.7 (485 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP...............-4.4 (584 minutes)
Lonzo + Ingram..........-5.2 (616 minutes)
Lonzo + Kuzma...........-5.4 (420 minutes)
Lonzo + Bogut............-8.1 (55 minutes)
Lonzo + Nance..........-11.1 (264 minutes)
Lonzo + Deng...........-26.8 (13 minutes)
_________________
If you have any tickets to buy for anything coming up, use the Promo Code: LFR to get $20 your first order on SeatGeek. Sign-up Here: https://sg.app.link/lfr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Cutheon
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 10 Jul 2009
Posts: 6894
Location: Bay Area

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:33 am    Post subject:

Eye-test confirmed. i've thought he looks best with Randle. Probably because Randle sets sticky screens while playing the best defense. Because, otherwise, he lacks the traditional offensive repertoire of a guy that I would think excels with Zo. +3.8 in 227 is pretty good
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
adkindo
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 15860
Location: Dirty South

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:34 am    Post subject:

^^ probably straight forward, but I have never been sure...so this says for the entire season Ball and Blue have shared the court for a total of 16 minutes.....no matter what the mix of other 3 players was during those minutes?
_________________
"Lonzo Ball is the headline, Kyle Kuzma is the STORY!" Jalen Rose
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
adkindo
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 15860
Location: Dirty South

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:40 am    Post subject:

Cutheon wrote:
Eye-test confirmed. i've thought he looks best with Randle. Probably because Randle sets sticky screens while playing the best defense. Because, otherwise, he lacks the traditional offensive repertoire of a guy that I would think excels with Zo. +3.8 in 227 is pretty good


Look at Randles 2 Man Lineups....he looks good with a lot of guys. For example, he has played 239 minutes with KCP with a net rating of +6.2....207 minutes with Josh Hart with a net rating of +4.7.

Ball, KCP and Randle have played 134 Minutes with a +9.5 net rating...that would see like a solid 3 to start with in building the best lineups.

add in Ingram....Ball, KCP, Ingram and Randle....104 Minutes....+20 net rating!

add in Kuzma as the 5th...52 Minutes - +28.4 net rating....the other option is Clarkson as the 5th...24 Minutes....+18 net rating
_________________
"Lonzo Ball is the headline, Kyle Kuzma is the STORY!" Jalen Rose


Last edited by adkindo on Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:49 am; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
dont_be_a_wuss
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Posts: 16032

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:42 am    Post subject:

lakersfan85 wrote:
LakersNewEra wrote:
LaMelo is more along the lines of a Chris Mullin, Reggie Miller..guys like that. Guys with a form a little unorthodox but nonetheless were great shooters.
Lets make a political metaphor here. Lets say political center is the ideal shootinf form. Well LaMelo is slightly left or right, whichever you will....on the other hand Lonzo is extreme. His shooting form is extreme. No way is it comparable to LaMelo who is a great great shooter despite a shooting form thats a bit different.

Also, LaMelo gets compared to Curry, best shooter ever. Yet you're saying hes going to be worse than Lonzo, one of the worst shooters ever statistically? Doesnt work like that.
Also yes LaMelo's shooting selection is bad in a Kobe kinda way bad. Its bad because hes got ability and he knows it. Lonzo on the other hand doesnt have abillity. His shot selecton is bad because he is bad. And its historically bad.

No comparison. Besides LaMelo shoots anyway possible over people, release is fast, he is the real deal and rightly compared to Curry IMO. He's fine with the shooting form as it is for him, just like Mullen and Reggie were fine.


It is an insult to compare Lamelo to Curry/Mullin/Miller as shooters. Seems like you are watching highlights and not looking at percentages. He has the ultimate green light and can make tough shots but he isn't a great shooter like the above.


What kind of shooting percentage were those guys putting up on high school varsity as freshman and sophomores?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
GoldenThroat
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 35158

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:52 am    Post subject:

Stop the non-Lonzo talk please.
_________________
If you have any tickets to buy for anything coming up, use the Promo Code: LFR to get $20 your first order on SeatGeek. Sign-up Here: https://sg.app.link/lfr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
GoldenThroat
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 35158

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:53 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
^^ probably straight forward, but I have never been sure...so this says for the entire season Ball and Blue have shared the court for a total of 16 minutes.....no matter what the mix of other 3 players was during those minutes?


That's correct.
_________________
If you have any tickets to buy for anything coming up, use the Promo Code: LFR to get $20 your first order on SeatGeek. Sign-up Here: https://sg.app.link/lfr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 121599
Location: The Gold Coast

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:55 am    Post subject:

Looking at these net ratings and Ingram’s, it is evident how our starters have been negative.
_________________
#lakerclownshow
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Nashlight
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 17 May 2011
Posts: 1758

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:38 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Of the 11 positive net rating lineups, the following primary players appear in:

Randle - 9 of 11
Clarkson - 7 of 11
Ball - 7 of 11
Kuzma - 7 of 11
Ingram - 6 of 11
KCP - 5 of 11
Lopez - 3 of 11
Nance - 1 of 11

Of the 11 negative net rating lineups, the following primary players appear in:

Ball - 8 of 11
KCP - 8 of 11
Ingram - 8 of 11
Kuzma - 6 of 11
Randle - 5 of 11
Nance - 5 of 11
Lopez - 4 of 11
Clarkson - 4 of 11



Appending to what you and GT have already stated, hare are the NET +/- lineups broken down individually:

Randle: +4
Clarkson: +3
Kuzma: +1
Ball: -1
Lopez: -1
Ingram: -2
KCP: -3
Nance: -4


Clearly Randle on the floor helps net the most, while Nance has the most loss. You can also see that all the starters are in the negatives, they're not helping each other at all.

I'm inclined to believe that Luke should try starting Randle over Nance to get some of that positive juices flowing with that lineup.
_________________
Tacos
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Jordan-esque
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 7835

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:41 am    Post subject:

The topics in this Lonzo thread are everywhere. All these stats should be plastered in the Luke Walton thread if anything.
_________________
Quote:
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Nashlight
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 17 May 2011
Posts: 1758

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:50 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Here are the Net Ratings of Lonzo's 2-Man Lineups

Lonzo + Randle..........+3.8 (227 minutes)
Lonzo + Clarkson........-2.0 (190 minutes)
Lonzo + Lopez............-3.7 (485 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP...............-4.4 (584 minutes)
Lonzo + Ingram..........-5.2 (616 minutes)
Lonzo + Kuzma...........-5.4 (420 minutes)
Lonzo + Nance..........-11.1 (264 minutes)


Took out anything less than 100 mins to get a more precise picture.
_________________
Tacos
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 758, 759, 760 ... 778, 779, 780  Next
Page 759 of 780
Jump to:  

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum






Graphics by uberzev
© 1995-2010 LakersGround.net. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy. Terms of Use.
LakersGround is an unofficial news source serving the fan community since 1995.
We are in no way associated with the Los Angeles Lakers or the National Basketball Association.


Powered by phpBB