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SocalDevin
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:54 pm    Post subject:

Jellojigglin wrote:
That off balance shovel pass back to KCP in the 3rd quarter for a triple against the Spurs was dope last night.


I loved that pass..
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:07 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
CervantesRises wrote:
defense wrote:
Dec. - .377
Jan. - .367

three point shooting


I might get skewered for this, but I think his hair had a lot to do with this. The fro was throwing off cocking motion and release...since he cut it his shooting motion has resembled what it was at UCLA.


I'm curious what KIROE thinks, as he doesn't really use the "head space" that KIROE refers too.


A few days ago, I was thinking the hair was messing with him.
So I looked up his #s after the hair cut.
But his % didn't start getting better until weeks later.


Yea... I'm pretty sure it's not a factor with him -- although he is close to using the side part of headspace, that a big fro could be in the way of -- specifically for him, it's the part of his hair that he gets "tapered" or cut low on the side part of your shapeup --- so I don't think it was a factor

And if a player who naturally uses headspace were to cut his hair, he'd have to adjust to the new headspace stroke, Epak

Learned a lot about shooting over the past couple years, didn't know everything when I first came up with that theory --- now I think there are viable workarounds for dudes with hair, and also, about 50% of people don't naturally use headspace on their shot.
Using headspace can be detrimental for a lot of players - Brandon Ingram being one of them - he needs to lower his stroke, he could have a beautiful one motion stroke that finishes high if he did.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:09 pm    Post subject:

I do think Brook Lopez shoots better with hair. I know he shot well when he had hair last year. I have to look into the stats more. It very well could be providing a natural set-point for him --- instead of using more cockback with no hair
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:12 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
I do think Brook Lopez shoots better with hair. I know he shot well when he had hair last year. I have to look into the stats more. It very well could be providing a natural set-point for him --- instead of using more cockback with no hair


Honestly, I think little things matter.
When guys tape their fingers.
When Kuz wore a head band.
But I think there's also a comfort level thing.

I have no idea why E Patyon is allowed to have that hair.
I think there was a meme where he got blocked by his own floppy hair.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:26 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
I do think Brook Lopez shoots better with hair. I know he shot well when he had hair last year. I have to look into the stats more. It very well could be providing a natural set-point for him --- instead of using more cockback with no hair


Honestly, I think little things matter.
When guys tape their fingers.
When Kuz wore a head band.
But I think there's also a comfort level thing.

I have no idea why E Patyon is allowed to have that hair.
I think there was a meme where he got blocked by his own floppy hair.


Did anyone see Fultz take warm up jumpers in London yesterday? Good god. Almost Charles Barkley golf swing bad.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:29 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
I do think Brook Lopez shoots better with hair. I know he shot well when he had hair last year. I have to look into the stats more. It very well could be providing a natural set-point for him --- instead of using more cockback with no hair


Honestly, I think little things matter.
When guys tape their fingers.
When Kuz wore a head band.
But I think there's also a comfort level thing.

I have no idea why E Patyon is allowed to have that hair.
I think there was a meme where he got blocked by his own floppy hair.


That's not even a little thing though it's a 2 inch change. *jokes a-fluddin*
That's a big diversion for a shooting stroke
I'm more open to workarounds now. It's still a factor though, for a solid amount of guys.

The most important part of finding where a players shot pocket should be/start, is the 90degree armpit (learned this from a few online coaches).
1)If your 90degree armpit places the ball around your hairline - you then determine 2)if you want or naturally use cockback on your stroke - if yes to those two variables, you use headspace and will be effected by what's in that space.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:44 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Yea... I'm pretty sure it's not a factor with him -- although he is close to using the side part of headspace, that a big fro could be in the way of -- specifically for him, it's the part of his hair that he gets "tapered" or cut low on the side part of your shapeup --- so I don't think it was a factor

And if a player who naturally uses headspace were to cut his hair, he'd have to adjust to the new headspace stroke, Epak

Learned a lot about shooting over the past couple years, didn't know everything when I first came up with that theory --- now I think there are viable workarounds for dudes with hair, and also, about 50% of people don't naturally use headspace on their shot.
Using headspace can be detrimental for a lot of players - Brandon Ingram being one of them - he needs to lower his stroke, he could have a beautiful one motion stroke that finishes high if he did.


Props to you for your hunger to keep learning, man. We may not agree on everything, but we're cut from similar cloth.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:56 pm    Post subject:

Isn't there someone that posts full Laker games? I really want to see last night's game on line!! Anyone here know if I'm right there is somewhere to see it?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:58 pm    Post subject:

kobe_luver wrote:
Isn't there someone that posts full Laker games? I really want to see last night's game on line!! Anyone here know if I'm right there is somewhere to see it?


Go to tvrex.net
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:07 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:
Just glad everyone (well almost everyone) is on board now. Who cares when people got on.

Choo choo!

I'm quietly waiting for it to be acceptable to say Lonzo is a KAT/Embiid/etc level prospect. Outside of Lakers forums (and maybe even here) that'd be ridiculed but I believe it.

Of course, I've been wrong before
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:14 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Yea... I'm pretty sure it's not a factor with him -- although he is close to using the side part of headspace, that a big fro could be in the way of -- specifically for him, it's the part of his hair that he gets "tapered" or cut low on the side part of your shapeup --- so I don't think it was a factor

And if a player who naturally uses headspace were to cut his hair, he'd have to adjust to the new headspace stroke, Epak

Learned a lot about shooting over the past couple years, didn't know everything when I first came up with that theory --- now I think there are viable workarounds for dudes with hair, and also, about 50% of people don't naturally use headspace on their shot.
Using headspace can be detrimental for a lot of players - Brandon Ingram being one of them - he needs to lower his stroke, he could have a beautiful one motion stroke that finishes high if he did.


Props to you for your hunger to keep learning, man. We may not agree on everything, but we're cut from similar cloth.


Ayeee you know I appreciate its. Shooting is just super intricate and fascinating. My goal was always to just help my Laker players shoot better (just want a coach/player to see a video and utilize whatever I'm currently into, on his own accord.)
I don't even put in the work ethic you put studying the Lakers, into shooting, but I've still managed to learn a crapload I swear. Looking at every shooting form, because they're all interesting (a form that challenges a belief is just as interesting as a form that reinforces a belief...is just as interesting as one that is lauded for other reasons.)

Learned a lot here
The nature of conversation - getting asked a question you don't have the answer to, and gaining valuable knowledge from that research.. that is why all conversation as a 'teacher' is good - because a great teacher is always a student....


I'm currently obsessed with looking at a couple different type of forms - the high no cockback form - Kawhi, AGordon, Snell, Brogdon, Bradley --- I previously thought that some decent amount of cockback was needed for rhythm - but I think these guys get that with their wrist and their jump.
Also obsessed with Tatum's unique overt wrist action, along with Courtney Lee. And how the 90degree armpit is the illusive holy grail of how to find your shot pocket
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:35 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
epak wrote:
Just glad everyone (well almost everyone) is on board now. Who cares when people got on.

Choo choo!

I'm quietly waiting for it to be acceptable to say Lonzo is a KAT/Embiid/etc level prospect. Outside of Lakers forums (and maybe even here) that'd be ridiculed but I believe it.

Of course, I've been wrong before


I wouldn't trade him for either guy.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:45 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Yea... I'm pretty sure it's not a factor with him -- although he is close to using the side part of headspace, that a big fro could be in the way of -- specifically for him, it's the part of his hair that he gets "tapered" or cut low on the side part of your shapeup --- so I don't think it was a factor

And if a player who naturally uses headspace were to cut his hair, he'd have to adjust to the new headspace stroke, Epak

Learned a lot about shooting over the past couple years, didn't know everything when I first came up with that theory --- now I think there are viable workarounds for dudes with hair, and also, about 50% of people don't naturally use headspace on their shot.
Using headspace can be detrimental for a lot of players - Brandon Ingram being one of them - he needs to lower his stroke, he could have a beautiful one motion stroke that finishes high if he did.


Props to you for your hunger to keep learning, man. We may not agree on everything, but we're cut from similar cloth.


Ayeee you know I appreciate its. Shooting is just super intricate and fascinating. My goal was always to just help my Laker players shoot better (just want a coach/player to see a video and utilize whatever I'm currently into, on his own accord.)
I don't even put in the work ethic you put studying the Lakers, into shooting, but I've still managed to learn a crapload I swear. Looking at every shooting form, because they're all interesting (a form that challenges a belief is just as interesting as a form that reinforces a belief...is just as interesting as one that is lauded for other reasons.)

Learned a lot here
The nature of conversation - getting asked a question you don't have the answer to, and gaining valuable knowledge from that research.. that is why all conversation as a 'teacher' is good - because a great teacher is always a student....


I'm currently obsessed with looking at a couple different type of forms - the high no cockback form - Kawhi, AGordon, Snell, Brogdon, Bradley --- I previously thought that some decent amount of cockback was needed for rhythm - but I think these guys get that with their wrist and their jump.
Also obsessed with Tatum's unique overt wrist action, along with Courtney Lee. And how the 90degree armpit is the illusive holy grail of how to find your shot pocket

Have you heard of the pro shot system?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:50 pm    Post subject:

Ya I've seen them. And the turn was debunked by a study by Drew Hanlen - the trainer of Clarkson/Wiggins/Beal/Lavine etc . And it's what's plaguing Randle! I really enjoy the @shotmechanics guy's info
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:53 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Ya I've seen them. And the turn was debunked by a study by Drew Hanlen - the trainer of Clarkson/Wiggins/Beal/Lavine etc . And it's what's plaguing Randle! I really enjoy the @shotmechanics guy's info

Hanlen has worked with JC before, according to his website. Gonna check out some more of his stuff!
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:59 pm    Post subject:

trablos wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Ya I've seen them. And the turn was debunked by a study by Drew Hanlen - the trainer of Clarkson/Wiggins/Beal/Lavine etc . And it's what's plaguing Randle! I really enjoy the @shotmechanics guy's info

Hanlen has worked with JC before, according to his website. Gonna check out some more of his stuff!


Yup Embiid too. I'm kind of purplexed at how he hasn't changed Clarkson's form -- they took air off of his ball last year, and I preferred his form/arc the first two years. Wiggins plunge is also unfortunate.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:37 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
epak wrote:
Just glad everyone (well almost everyone) is on board now. Who cares when people got on.

Choo choo!

I'm quietly waiting for it to be acceptable to say Lonzo is a KAT/Embiid/etc level prospect. Outside of Lakers forums (and maybe even here) that'd be ridiculed but I believe it.

Of course, I've been wrong before

I always liked this JZ Mazlish pre-draft article in which he argues compellingly for Ball at #1:
Quote:
There has never been an NBA star with Ball's flaws, sure. However, what is crucial to realize is there had also never been an NCAA star with those flaws until Ball came around. He is a unique amalgamation of strengths who succeeds in a completely unprecedented way. It was unprecedented at the NCAA level, so it would be foolish to not at least cede the chance that he could also star in a revolutionary way in the NBA.

The stars the league does not see coming are often those whose play style does not match any past star. Stephen Curry, Draymond Green, and Nikola Jokic all were seen as "low-upside" prospects precisely because their success came in ways the league had never seen before.

Link

His game is so weird that it's going to take folks awhile to process how good he is and then start to imagine how good he could be. Because I can't imagine the ceiling of a dude I projected to be a 6'6 lob threat John Stockton the other day (at the upper range of Lonzo's development, of course).
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:46 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
tox wrote:
epak wrote:
Just glad everyone (well almost everyone) is on board now. Who cares when people got on.

Choo choo!

I'm quietly waiting for it to be acceptable to say Lonzo is a KAT/Embiid/etc level prospect. Outside of Lakers forums (and maybe even here) that'd be ridiculed but I believe it.

Of course, I've been wrong before


I wouldn't trade him for either guy.


That's kind of a wild statement. I am very high on Lonzo but KAT is a no brainer. Embiid the injury prone argument can be made but health being equal he's clearly above Zo as well.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:56 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
tox wrote:
epak wrote:
Just glad everyone (well almost everyone) is on board now. Who cares when people got on.

Choo choo!

I'm quietly waiting for it to be acceptable to say Lonzo is a KAT/Embiid/etc level prospect. Outside of Lakers forums (and maybe even here) that'd be ridiculed but I believe it.

Of course, I've been wrong before

I always liked this JZ Mazlish pre-draft article in which he argues compellingly for Ball at #1:
Quote:
There has never been an NBA star with Ball's flaws, sure. However, what is crucial to realize is there had also never been an NCAA star with those flaws until Ball came around. He is a unique amalgamation of strengths who succeeds in a completely unprecedented way. It was unprecedented at the NCAA level, so it would be foolish to not at least cede the chance that he could also star in a revolutionary way in the NBA.

The stars the league does not see coming are often those whose play style does not match any past star. Stephen Curry, Draymond Green, and Nikola Jokic all were seen as "low-upside" prospects precisely because their success came in ways the league had never seen before.

Link

His game is so weird that it's going to take folks awhile to process how good he is and then start to imagine how good he could be. Because I can't imagine the ceiling of a dude I projected to be a 6'6 lob threat John Stockton the other day (at the upper range of Lonzo's development, of course).


I had to see it in Vegas before I could believe it. I've seen too many NCAA playmakers with 3pt shots that never made the L.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:27 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
tox wrote:
epak wrote:
Just glad everyone (well almost everyone) is on board now. Who cares when people got on.

Choo choo!

I'm quietly waiting for it to be acceptable to say Lonzo is a KAT/Embiid/etc level prospect. Outside of Lakers forums (and maybe even here) that'd be ridiculed but I believe it.

Of course, I've been wrong before

I always liked this JZ Mazlish pre-draft article in which he argues compellingly for Ball at #1:
Quote:
There has never been an NBA star with Ball's flaws, sure. However, what is crucial to realize is there had also never been an NCAA star with those flaws until Ball came around. He is a unique amalgamation of strengths who succeeds in a completely unprecedented way. It was unprecedented at the NCAA level, so it would be foolish to not at least cede the chance that he could also star in a revolutionary way in the NBA.

The stars the league does not see coming are often those whose play style does not match any past star. Stephen Curry, Draymond Green, and Nikola Jokic all were seen as "low-upside" prospects precisely because their success came in ways the league had never seen before.

Link

His game is so weird that it's going to take folks awhile to process how good he is and then start to imagine how good he could be. Because I can't imagine the ceiling of a dude I projected to be a 6'6 lob threat John Stockton the other day (at the upper range of Lonzo's development, of course).


I had to see it in Vegas before I could believe it. I've seen too many NCAA playmakers with 3pt shots that never made the L.

Who?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:31 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
tox wrote:
epak wrote:
Just glad everyone (well almost everyone) is on board now. Who cares when people got on.

Choo choo!

I'm quietly waiting for it to be acceptable to say Lonzo is a KAT/Embiid/etc level prospect. Outside of Lakers forums (and maybe even here) that'd be ridiculed but I believe it.

Of course, I've been wrong before


I wouldn't trade him for either guy.


If you could convince me that Embiid will stay healthy and play 75 games I would. Of course no one could do that.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:48 pm    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
tox wrote:
epak wrote:
Just glad everyone (well almost everyone) is on board now. Who cares when people got on.

Choo choo!

I'm quietly waiting for it to be acceptable to say Lonzo is a KAT/Embiid/etc level prospect. Outside of Lakers forums (and maybe even here) that'd be ridiculed but I believe it.

Of course, I've been wrong before


I wouldn't trade him for either guy.


That's kind of a wild statement. I am very high on Lonzo but KAT is a no brainer. Embiid the injury prone argument can be made but health being equal he's clearly above Zo as well.


KAT is an impressive player but he doesnít change the outcome of the game the way that Lonzo can. Iím confident that by next year this time, youíll see a better version of Lonzo than a current KAT, and it might not be close.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:51 pm    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
tox wrote:
epak wrote:
Just glad everyone (well almost everyone) is on board now. Who cares when people got on.

Choo choo!

I'm quietly waiting for it to be acceptable to say Lonzo is a KAT/Embiid/etc level prospect. Outside of Lakers forums (and maybe even here) that'd be ridiculed but I believe it.

Of course, I've been wrong before


I wouldn't trade him for either guy.


That's kind of a wild statement. I am very high on Lonzo but KAT is a no brainer. Embiid the injury prone argument can be made but health being equal he's clearly above Zo as well.


Until recently, I would have said the same thing as 24 when it comes to Towns. In his third season, though, Towns has finally started to become a defensive force. I'm sure some people will credit Thibs, but I have a feeling that it is more a function of him just growing up. In the old days, he would be a senior in college this year. Towns is shooting over 40% on threes this year, and he is shooting 84% from the foul line. Towns could become a 50/40/90 center.

But enough about Towns. Ball's DRPM is now 1.97. He has passed Simmons. He now has the highest DRPM of any starting point guard in the league. Let me say that again. Lonzo Ball, a rookie, now has the highest DRPM of any starting point guard in the league. There are two role players (Tyus Jones and Dejounte Murray) who have higher DRPMs. He is on a vector to pass them by the end of the season, and possibly by the end of this month.

This is stunning. I did not hear anyone, including the biggest optimists on the board, predicting anything close to that. If someone in this thread had predicted this in October, even the biggest Lonzo Ball fans would have said, "Whoa, there, that's not going to happen." But it did. There is a real possibility that Lonzo Ball will make the all-defense team as a rookie. I would say that again, but I already used that device once in this thread. You get the point.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:17 pm    Post subject:

The funny part is that the media narrative is probably still, he is not a great defender.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:25 pm    Post subject:

LakerLogic wrote:
The funny part is that the media narrative is probably still, he is not a great defender.


You would expect analysts to actually watch games. It's amazing.

But like AH was saying, I for one did not expect Lonzo to be playing great defense in the NBA. I didn't even think he would guard other point guards. That's why I thought getting KCP to guard point guards was so important.

I love that Lonzo is proving me wrong. I did not expect his instincts that he showed on offense to translate to defense. Shows what smarts + instincts can do.

Things I did not expect:

1. Lonzo's defense (especially help defense)
2. Lonzo running PNR
3. Lonzo rebounding
4. Lonzo's 3ball not falling early
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