OFFICIAL LONZO BALL THREAD
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splashmtn
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:16 pm    Post subject:

jg77 wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
To win a title, Rajon Ronda (especially a young one) can be one your 3rd or 4th best player. However, I expect and anticipate Ball being much better than that.


The problems with your Rondo analogy are (1) it was a different era of the NBA, (2) it required three Hall of Famers to win the title, and (3) anyway, Rondo was a better offensive player than Ball (so far).


Also, Lonzo lacks the fiery attitude of Rondo (which is a good and bad thing for Rondo).

I think Lonzo will never cost us games if he gets his shooting together but also that he'll never elevate his play to take over games as well. I really like his even-keel personality though.
if he gets his shooting/Free throws together. he will take over games scoring wise. you guys have to say that last part when you make this comment. because he has already taken over games in other aspects. scoring is not THEE only thing there is in basketball and thats not THEE only way to take over a game.
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LakerLogic
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:37 pm    Post subject:

Look at Ben Simmons with 4 shooters next to him, looks pretty good.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:53 pm    Post subject:

LakerLogic wrote:
Look at Ben Simmons with 4 shooters next to him, looks pretty good.


The one difference is Simmons ability to penetrate and score at the rim. If/when Lonzo develops that part of his game I feel he will be a consistent impact player similar to Simmons.
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Vanquish
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:50 pm    Post subject:

PlantedTanks wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:
Look at Ben Simmons with 4 shooters next to him, looks pretty good.


The one difference is Simmons ability to penetrate and score at the rim. If/when Lonzo develops that part of his game I feel he will be a consistent impact player similar to Simmons.


Lonzo still hasn't developed into his body. I think with more muscle and growth, his scoring at the rim will improve. His angles tend to be a little off when he does lay ups, would be easier to correct than his jump shot.
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giordan0
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:03 am    Post subject:

Vanquish wrote:
Lonzo still hasn't developed into his body. I think with more muscle and growth



Extra bowls of cheese over the summer.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:26 am    Post subject:

PlantedTanks wrote:
The one difference is Simmons ability to penetrate and score at the rim. If/when Lonzo develops that part of his game I feel he will be a consistent impact player similar to Simmons.


Simmons is 6'10" with an extraordinary athletic frame...he will likely always be able to do things in traffic and at the rim at a level above Ball.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:48 am    Post subject:

Vanquish wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:
Look at Ben Simmons with 4 shooters next to him, looks pretty good.


The one difference is Simmons ability to penetrate and score at the rim. If/when Lonzo develops that part of his game I feel he will be a consistent impact player similar to Simmons.


Lonzo still hasn't developed into his body. I think with more muscle and growth, his scoring at the rim will improve. His angles tend to be a little off when he does lay ups, would be easier to correct than his jump shot.


This part is multifaceted.
1. Goes too fast attacking the basket. The upside is, he accelerates towards the hoop. Problem is, he's going too fast to get a soft shot off the board.
2. He uses stride footwork vs lift. The way his feet plant affect his vert. Part of the reason why that UCLA dunk version is gone is two-fold: he's doing it off the dribble w a defender in front of him and he doesn't have the run ways off ball that he used to.
3. Dexterity around the rim. Weak left hand, but has issues using different angles + english off the backboard to soften the shot when he finishes right.
4. Body development. It's like he's built for sprinting, but not two-foot standstill jumping.
5. Doesn't initiate contact off the shot-blocker. Also, frame related.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:48 am    Post subject:

giordan0 wrote:
Vanquish wrote:
Lonzo still hasn't developed into his body. I think with more muscle and growth



Extra bowls of cheese over the summer.


Please.... just one more short growth spurt.
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jg77
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:58 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Vanquish wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:
Look at Ben Simmons with 4 shooters next to him, looks pretty good.


The one difference is Simmons ability to penetrate and score at the rim. If/when Lonzo develops that part of his game I feel he will be a consistent impact player similar to Simmons.


Lonzo still hasn't developed into his body. I think with more muscle and growth, his scoring at the rim will improve. His angles tend to be a little off when he does lay ups, would be easier to correct than his jump shot.


This part is multifaceted.
1. Goes too fast attacking the basket. The upside is, he accelerates towards the hoop. Problem is, he's going too fast to get a soft shot off the board.
2. He uses stride footwork vs lift. The way his feet plant affect his vert. Part of the reason why that UCLA dunk version is gone is two-fold: he's doing it off the dribble w a defender in front of him and he doesn't have the run ways off ball that he used to.
3. Dexterity around the rim. Weak left hand, but has issues using different angles + english off the backboard to soften the shot when he finishes right.
4. Body development. It's like he's built for sprinting, but not two-foot standstill jumping.
5. Doesn't initiate contact off the shot-blocker. Also, frame related.


I was thinking in football terms he's more RG3/Kaep than Michael Vick. He doesn't seem elusive and seems like a straight line runner.
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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:04 am    Post subject:

Quote:

I was thinking in football terms he's more RG3/Kaep than Michael Vick. He doesn't seem elusive and seems like a straight line runner.


It's weird, because he has shown legit lateral quickness and straight line speed. Not so much rounding a corner and changing direction on the fly.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:33 am    Post subject:

I'd like to see him work on absorbing contact and playing through it like Ingram did last of season. As he build strength this off season, he needs to learn how to use it effectively. He's not going to out muscle anyone, but he needs to be able to push back against guys like Patrick Beverly, while playing through contact.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:13 am    Post subject:

I think he has sufficient quickness. I think his problem is he goes 100% full steam ahead then gives himself only one option in the process. He would benefit a lot from learning to change speeds. He definitely needs some fundamentals work. Like so many young talented guys, he got by doing one or two things his whole life. Now he has to develop in order to maximize his talent.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:02 am    Post subject:

defense wrote:
I think he has sufficient quickness. I think his problem is he goes 100% full steam ahead then gives himself only one option in the process. He would benefit a lot from learning to change speeds. He definitely needs some fundamentals work. Like so many young talented guys, he got by doing one or two things his whole life. Now he has to develop in order to maximize his talent.
I agree with your assessment. He's either going to pass or dunk when he's going full speed. I'm not concerned about his foot speed either.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:37 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
To win a title, Rajon Ronda (especially a young one) can be one your 3rd or 4th best player. However, I expect and anticipate Ball being much better than that.


The problems with your Rondo analogy are (1) it was a different era of the NBA, (2) it required three Hall of Famers to win the title, and (3) anyway, Rondo was a better offensive player than Ball (so far).

Rondo put up a .470 TS% and -1.5 OBPM as a rookie. Zo put up a .440 TS% and -0.8 BPM as a rookie.


Rondo also played with three hall-of-famers. I’m sure Lonzo would have looked a lot better next to Garnett, Pierce and Allen. Hell, I’m not sure he would have missed 30 games With those guys for teammates.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:05 am    Post subject:

defense wrote:
I think he has sufficient quickness. I think his problem is he goes 100% full steam ahead then gives himself only one option in the process. He would benefit a lot from learning to change speeds. He definitely needs some fundamentals work. Like so many young talented guys, he got by doing one or two things his whole life. Now he has to develop in order to maximize his talent.


So much of his fundamentals are bad because daddy gave him inadequate coaching. Luckily, Zo has great God-given instincts for the game.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:02 pm    Post subject:

defense wrote:
I think he has sufficient quickness. I think his problem is he goes 100% full steam ahead then gives himself only one option in the process. He would benefit a lot from learning to change speeds. He definitely needs some fundamentals work. Like so many young talented guys, he got by doing one or two things his whole life. Now he has to develop in order to maximize his talent.


He reminds me of playing 2k without using any of the dribble moves or change shots(do they still have that?). Just hold turbo and point the stick toward the basket and press the shoot button when close.

Of all of young players, he's the one that needs to work with Kobe the most. He is absolutely missing the scoring/finesse part of the game. Great thing about it is, it's just about the only thing he's missing. Bad thing about it is, it's a hard thing to develop and some guys never get it. Look at Draymond.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:43 pm    Post subject:

He's a future HOF guard. @me in 20 years.
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PlantedTanks
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:41 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Vanquish wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:
Look at Ben Simmons with 4 shooters next to him, looks pretty good.


The one difference is Simmons ability to penetrate and score at the rim. If/when Lonzo develops that part of his game I feel he will be a consistent impact player similar to Simmons.


Lonzo still hasn't developed into his body. I think with more muscle and growth, his scoring at the rim will improve. His angles tend to be a little off when he does lay ups, would be easier to correct than his jump shot.


This part is multifaceted.
1. Goes too fast attacking the basket. The upside is, he accelerates towards the hoop. Problem is, he's going too fast to get a soft shot off the board.
2. He uses stride footwork vs lift. The way his feet plant affect his vert. Part of the reason why that UCLA dunk version is gone is two-fold: he's doing it off the dribble w a defender in front of him and he doesn't have the run ways off ball that he used to.
3. Dexterity around the rim. Weak left hand, but has issues using different angles + english off the backboard to soften the shot when he finishes right.
4. Body development. It's like he's built for sprinting, but not two-foot standstill jumping.
5. Doesn't initiate contact off the shot-blocker. Also, frame related.


What I hope he develops to elite status is his handles. You don't have to be the quickest player to be effective penetrating but you need to be able to dribble with great dexterity. Coupled with his height this would give him such an advantage over his defender.

For all Kobe could do on offense his handles which I consider elite allowed him to be such a great scorer.
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watchME
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:19 am    Post subject:

He is just not a very good basketball player YET. He is super raw as a PG, his handles, form and finishing ability are way underdeveloped for a guy picked at #2. The difference is he understands TEAM basketball and has a crazy vision.

Handles is very easy to work on
Finishing will come with more reps and familiarity with the paint


His shot might never get there but even then look at what Rondo, Rubio and Simmons..IQ matters.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:52 am    Post subject:

watchME wrote:
He is just not a very good basketball player YET. He is super raw as a PG, his handles, form and finishing ability are way underdeveloped for a guy picked at #2. The difference is he understands TEAM basketball and has a crazy vision.

Handles is very easy to work on
Finishing will come with more reps and familiarity with the paint


His shot might never get there but even then look at what Rondo, Rubio and Simmons..IQ matters.


Well, you can say that...but what I see in someone like Donovan Mitchell is a high volume low efficiency shooter, but almost everybody would say he’s a better basketball player than Lonzo.

The fact is that DM shot above .500 from the field only 12 times in 83 games this season (including the playoffs), his defense is below average (-0.2 DBMP) and his overall BMP is worse than Lonzo’s (1.1 vs 1.7). Take it for what it’s worth, but just putting points up on the board isn’t everything. Granted, Mitchell passes the eye test with flying colors and I really like him.

I think the fact is that Lonzo is an AMAZING basketball player, but right now he’s a terrible terrible shooter. If Lonzo could raise his shooting averages to what Mitchell did during the season, which is pretty low bar honesty (43% FG, 34% from 3) he’d be one of the best 2 way players in the game. He’s never going to put up 25 shots a game like DM does, so the scoring numbers won’t be there, but scoring isn’t the only thing that can be done on the court to help your team win.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:57 am    Post subject:

Mitchell shot 0.541 TS% compared to Lonzo’s 0.44%. Mitchell wasn’t the inefficient one.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:12 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Mitchell shot 0.541 TS% compared to Lonzo’s 0.44%. Mitchell wasn’t the inefficient one.


I am predicting that Lonzo will have a .541 TS% when he is 21.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:16 am    Post subject:

I see Lonzo being a taller version of playoff Rondo
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:16 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Mitchell shot 0.541 TS% compared to Lonzo’s 0.44%. Mitchell wasn’t the inefficient one.


That’s what you took out of my post? Where did I say that Lonzo’s shooting efficiency was anything but terrible?
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:18 am    Post subject:

Fortysixn2 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Mitchell shot 0.541 TS% compared to Lonzo’s 0.44%. Mitchell wasn’t the inefficient one.


That’s what you took out of my post? Where did I say that Lonzo’s shooting efficiency was anything but terrible?


You posted that Mitchell was inefficient, he hasn’t been.
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