OFFICIAL LONZO BALL THREAD
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 12:38 pm    Post subject:

Lonzo missed too many games.

And his dad didn't help things either.

If he played 20 more games, and his dad was some unknown behind-the-scenes dad, might be a different story.
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 1:02 pm    Post subject:

^^^I think those 5 1st Team guys were pretty much a lock based on performance.
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 1:02 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Lonzo missed too many games.

And his dad didn't help things either.

If he played 20 more games, and his dad was some unknown behind-the-scenes dad, might be a different story.


He's also too unusual of a player. Sort the rookies by PPG, and you're pretty much gonna get the All-Rookie teams. It speaks to the quality of the voters more than anything.
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 1:04 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Lonzo missed too many games.

And his dad didn't help things either.

If he played 20 more games, and his dad was some unknown behind-the-scenes dad, might be a different story.


Even with the missed games if his dad wasn’t a public figure, he’s probably a 1st teamer IMO. People love to hate and those people were able to spread a narrative early in the season.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 1:08 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Lonzo missed too many games.

And his dad didn't help things either.

If he played 20 more games, and his dad was some unknown behind-the-scenes dad, might be a different story.


He's also too unusual of a player. Sort the rookies by PPG, and you're pretty much gonna get the All-Rookie teams. It speaks to the quality of the voters more than anything.


On top of his dad and missed games.

But thankfully all rookie teams mean little long-term. I mean MCW was the ROY for crying out loud.
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 1:15 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Lonzo missed too many games.

And his dad didn't help things either.

If he played 20 more games, and his dad was some unknown behind-the-scenes dad, might be a different story.


He's also too unusual of a player. Sort the rookies by PPG, and you're pretty much gonna get the All-Rookie teams. It speaks to the quality of the voters more than anything.


lines up mostly with PER....with only John Collins who played less minutes each night being the outlier. All of the 1st Team guys were very close to average or above average in PER....while all the 2nd Team guys (besides Collins) were well below average on the season. If it was calculated on PPG, or per 36, then Ball would not have made either team.

First Team
Ben Simmons - 20.03 PER
Donovan Mitchell - 16.74 PER
Jayson Tatum - 15.29 PER
Kyle Kuzma - 14.22 PER
Lauri Markkanen - 15.68 PER

Second Team
Dennis Smith Jr. - 12.89 PER
Lonzo Ball - 12.53 PER
John Collins - 18.33 PER
Bogdan Bogdanovic - 13.51 PER
Josh Jackson - 11.91 PER
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 1:19 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Lonzo missed too many games.

And his dad didn't help things either.

If he played 20 more games, and his dad was some unknown behind-the-scenes dad, might be a different story.


He's also too unusual of a player. Sort the rookies by PPG, and you're pretty much gonna get the All-Rookie teams. It speaks to the quality of the voters more than anything.


lines up mostly with PER


Not really


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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 1:21 pm    Post subject:

If voters are using "PER" and "PPG," goes to show you how much stock you should put on their vote.
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Endless3D
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 1:29 pm    Post subject:

So GoldenThroat has clicked on the Lakers... and the Celtics hmmmmm
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 1:34 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
adkindo wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Lonzo missed too many games.

And his dad didn't help things either.

If he played 20 more games, and his dad was some unknown behind-the-scenes dad, might be a different story.


He's also too unusual of a player. Sort the rookies by PPG, and you're pretty much gonna get the All-Rookie teams. It speaks to the quality of the voters more than anything.


lines up mostly with PER


Not really

https://i.imgur.com/YKb9Nvo.png


right, cause Jordan Bell (14 MPG in 57 games), Jarrett Allen (20 MPG in 72 games), Khem Birch (13 MPG in 42 games), Theis (14 MPG in 63 games) or Bam Adebayo (19 MPG in 69 games) all were very similar in impact and MPG as the players listed.

So yeah, really....of players that played real minutes and were impactful to their team, PER is the closest stat I can find that aligns with the voting.
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GoldenThroat
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 1:35 pm    Post subject:

Endless3D wrote:
So GoldenThroat has clicked on the Lakers... and the Celtics hmmmmm



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adkindo
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 1:36 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
If voters are using "PER" and "PPG," goes to show you how much stock you should put on their vote.


did not say they used PER, just said it is in alignment with the results for the most part....PPG does not line up with the voting at all or Kuzma gets 2nd most votes, and DSJ is 1st Team.
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defense
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 1:37 pm    Post subject:

First Team

Ben Simmons 2.70 RPM
Donovan Mitchell 2.24 RPM
Jayson Tatum 3.06 RPM
Kyle Kuzma -1.53 RPM
Lauri Markkanen -1.51 RPM

Lonzo Ball 1.04 RPM
Dennis Smith -3.09 RPM
Bogdan Bogdanovic -1.75 RPM
Josh Jackson -3.76 RPM
John Collins -.55 RPM

DRPM

Ball 2.24
Smith Jr -2.17
Bogdanovic -2.09
Jacskon -1.39
Collins .97
Simmons 1.39
Tatum 2.00
Mitchell .63
Kuzma -1.57
Markkanen -1.87
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defense
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 1:46 pm    Post subject:

BPM

Lonzo 1.7
Kuzma -1.3
Simmons 4.6
Mitchell 1.1
Tatum 1.0

Markkanen -1.9
Collins 1.7
Smith Jr -2.3
Bogdan -1.0
Jackson -4.3
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 1:53 pm    Post subject:

defense wrote:
First Team

Ben Simmons 2.70 RPM
Donovan Mitchell 2.24 RPM
Jayson Tatum 3.06 RPM
Kyle Kuzma -1.53 RPM
Lauri Markkanen -1.51 RPM

Lonzo Ball 1.04 RPM
Dennis Smith -3.09 RPM
Bogdan Bogdanovic -1.75 RPM
Josh Jackson -3.76 RPM
John Collins -.55 RPM

DRPM

Ball 2.24
Smith Jr -2.17
Bogdanovic -2.09
Jacskon -1.39
Collins .97
Simmons 1.39
Tatum 2.00
Mitchell .63
Kuzma -1.57
Markkanen -1.87

Lonzo was robbed.
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defense
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 1:56 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
defense wrote:
First Team

Ben Simmons 2.70 RPM
Donovan Mitchell 2.24 RPM
Jayson Tatum 3.06 RPM
Kyle Kuzma -1.53 RPM
Lauri Markkanen -1.51 RPM

Lonzo Ball 1.04 RPM
Dennis Smith -3.09 RPM
Bogdan Bogdanovic -1.75 RPM
Josh Jackson -3.76 RPM
John Collins -.55 RPM

DRPM

Ball 2.24
Smith Jr -2.17
Bogdanovic -2.09
Jacskon -1.39
Collins .97
Simmons 1.39
Tatum 2.00
Mitchell .63
Kuzma -1.57
Markkanen -1.87

Lonzo was robbed.


If someone said to me, I didn't pick him because he missed a bunch of games, I could respect that. If someone says to me I didn't pick him because I didn't think he was good enough... well that I might have a problem with.
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 2:06 pm    Post subject:

Kyle Kuzma has added muscle and says Lonzo Ball has been in the weight room: “He has been in there pretty much every day I have been. You can tell he is taking the weight room a lot more serious and that is going to help him recover faster and hopefully be on the court more.” https://t.co/ZwMpjB7tdn
https://twitter.com/NotoriousOHM/status/999039941890854913?s=19

Me likey
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 2:09 pm    Post subject:

Lonzo making 2nd team all rookie is a significant accomplishment. Far from the bust status many members of the media were trying to pin on him.
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Judah
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 2:32 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Lonzo missed too many games.

And his dad didn't help things either.

If he played 20 more games, and his dad was some unknown behind-the-scenes dad, might be a different story.


Even with the missed games if his dad wasn’t a public figure, he’s probably a 1st teamer IMO. People love to hate and those people were able to spread a narrative early in the season.

That and his shooting. He was never going to make the first team because of his shooting. When people think of him, that’s the first thing that comes to mind. Everything else, unfortunately, is left in the background. Players have to fight against narratives, and narratives are controlled by the media. Remember when Russell dominated SL and didn’t even make first team?
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BigGameHames
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 2:32 pm    Post subject:

defense wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
defense wrote:
First Team

Ben Simmons 2.70 RPM
Donovan Mitchell 2.24 RPM
Jayson Tatum 3.06 RPM
Kyle Kuzma -1.53 RPM
Lauri Markkanen -1.51 RPM

Lonzo Ball 1.04 RPM
Dennis Smith -3.09 RPM
Bogdan Bogdanovic -1.75 RPM
Josh Jackson -3.76 RPM
John Collins -.55 RPM

DRPM

Ball 2.24
Smith Jr -2.17
Bogdanovic -2.09
Jacskon -1.39
Collins .97
Simmons 1.39
Tatum 2.00
Mitchell .63
Kuzma -1.57
Markkanen -1.87

Lonzo was robbed.


If someone said to me, I didn't pick him because he missed a bunch of games, I could respect that. If someone says to me I didn't pick him because I didn't think he was good enough... well that I might have a problem with.


Bingo.
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BigGameHames
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 2:37 pm    Post subject:

Judah wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Lonzo missed too many games.

And his dad didn't help things either.

If he played 20 more games, and his dad was some unknown behind-the-scenes dad, might be a different story.


Even with the missed games if his dad wasn’t a public figure, he’s probably a 1st teamer IMO. People love to hate and those people were able to spread a narrative early in the season.

That and his shooting. He was never going to make the first team because of his shooting. When people think of him, that’s the first thing that comes to mind. Everything else, unfortunately, is left in the background. Players have to fight against narratives, and narratives are controlled by the media. Remember when Russell dominated SL and didn’t even make first team?


My point is I think the shooting gets looked over and he would’ve been viewed as the all around great defensive player that he is if Lavar wasn’t in the picture. Lavar has made him a “love or hate” guy. I actually like having a guy like that on the Lakers. I’m more confident in him than any Lakers prospect since I’ve started paying attention, can’t wait for him to start leading the Lakers to playoff runs and listen to the haters scramble to try and discredit him.
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Judah
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 2:46 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
Judah wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Lonzo missed too many games.

And his dad didn't help things either.

If he played 20 more games, and his dad was some unknown behind-the-scenes dad, might be a different story.


Even with the missed games if his dad wasn’t a public figure, he’s probably a 1st teamer IMO. People love to hate and those people were able to spread a narrative early in the season.

That and his shooting. He was never going to make the first team because of his shooting. When people think of him, that’s the first thing that comes to mind. Everything else, unfortunately, is left in the background. Players have to fight against narratives, and narratives are controlled by the media. Remember when Russell dominated SL and didn’t even make first team?


My point is I think the shooting gets looked over and he would’ve been viewed as the all around great defensive player that he is if Lavar wasn’t in the picture. Lavar has made him a “love or hate” guy. I actually like having a guy like that on the Lakers. I’m more confident in him than any Lakers prospect since I’ve started paying attention, can’t wait for him to start leading the Lakers to playoff runs and listen to the haters scramble to try and discredit him.

Wasn’t disagreeing with your point at all. Just added to it while making my own.
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 3:45 pm    Post subject:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23574765/los-angeles-lakers-forward-kyle-kuzma-says-teammate-lonzo-ball-taking-strength-training-lot-more-serious
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Judah
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 4:39 pm    Post subject:

LakerLogic wrote:
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23574765/los-angeles-lakers-forward-kyle-kuzma-says-teammate-lonzo-ball-taking-strength-training-lot-more-serious

Article says that Kuz ”has added noticeable muscle.”

Does he have the same trainer as Barry Bonds?
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 5:45 pm    Post subject:

Judah wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23574765/los-angeles-lakers-forward-kyle-kuzma-says-teammate-lonzo-ball-taking-strength-training-lot-more-serious

Article says that Kuz ”has added noticeable muscle.”

Does he have the same trainer as Barry Bonds?


I thought someone here said he would be promoting his album or touring all summer, I guess that was just a hater?

Good to hear the young guys are putting the work in and taking this seriously.
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