OFFICIAL LONZO BALL THREAD
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 4:14 pm    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
Lonzo Ball was name dropped during a date scene in the new Karate Kid series on YouTube RED.


noticed that also
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 4:56 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Jsthornton7 wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
watchME wrote:
Maybe Iím bad at reading people but why do i get the feeling he feels entitled? As if he is already good enough? I used to feel the same way about dangelo.

Also he should change his shot ASAP. If he doesnít and still continue to shoot poorly I donít see a reason to keep starting him.


I donít think he should change his shot in any significant way but I also donít think heíll continue to shoot poorly.


I care way more about his free throw form right now than his in game shot form. That definitely needs to be worked on way more. He is completely out of rhythm.


I care way more about the shots that he takes about 10 times more often than free throws.


agreed but to continue the trend

I care way more about the fact that he's only taking 1.4 free throws
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 5:09 pm    Post subject:

His dad is too thick headed to admit any wrong. I mean the guy has seen Lonzo play since childhood and he didn't notice anything wrong. I'm pretty sure his dad is telling him right now he's doing great and don't change a thing. If we're gonna stick with Lonzo going forward (which I am strongly against), we'd have to hope that his jumpshot improves.

The guy can't drive to the hoop at all so he's not gonna get many free throws. Tatum and Mitchell are way ahead of him in terms of BPM (total plus/minus while player is on the court). He can't do the simple thing of driving to the hoop let alone have the full arsenal of pull up jumpers and floaters, which keep defenders guessing. The kid's a mess and I think a lot of Laker fans don't see it. All they see is this supposedly great defender who only helps out the team on one end of the floor.
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 5:27 pm    Post subject:

Lonzo's form isn't the issue, when he consistently fires it from the right spot without missing it. When he raises it just slightly(his high school form) it's essentially like Durant's form.

We even saw him going back to it slightly during his 'hot streak' and Magic referred to this as well in the end of the season pressers when it came to Lonzo's jumper.


Besides there's more to Lonzo's game than his jumper, and he does that more at an extremely high level for a rookie and in general. All are good signs. Ya'll focus on his jumper way too much when the adjustment to 'fix it' doesn't even have to be that drastic.
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 5:36 pm    Post subject:

The BPM will tell you that Lonzo actually has a negative contribution on the offensive end so he must be doing something wrong. Without that drive to the hoop and a good jumpshot, he loses that ability to pump fake to get easy points via free throw shooting. He's terrible on offense when teams aren't even guarding him that tightly yet. They're actually giving him space to shoot and to pass.
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 5:36 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Lonzo's form isn't the issue, when he consistently fires it from the right spot without missing it. When he raises it just slightly(his high school form) it's essentially like Durant's form.

We even saw him going back to it slightly during his 'hot streak' and Magic referred to this as well in the end of the season pressers when it came to Lonzo's jumper.


Besides there's more to Lonzo's game than his jumper, and he does that more at an extremely high level for a rookie and in general. All are good signs. Ya'll focus on his jumper way too much when the adjustment to 'fix it' doesn't even have to be that drastic.

How players shoot as HS sophomores is never the same form the have when they grow
Lonzo's form was consistently his unique form this year he didn't raise it to any degree close to KD
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 7:56 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Lonzo's form isn't the issue, when he consistently fires it from the right spot without missing it. When he raises it just slightly(his high school form) it's essentially like Durant's form.

We even saw him going back to it slightly during his 'hot streak' and Magic referred to this as well in the end of the season pressers when it came to Lonzo's jumper.


Besides there's more to Lonzo's game than his jumper, and he does that more at an extremely high level for a rookie and in general. All are good signs. Ya'll focus on his jumper way too much when the adjustment to 'fix it' doesn't even have to be that drastic.
LOL...His form is the only problem. What else could it be? gravity?

A PG cannot have such a low gather or the amount of space between his shot and defenders will be very bad resulting and terribly contested shots. Why does he bring the ball down to his waist? and from the left side instead of from his dominant hand?


Look at Arena one of the best shooters there has been analyzing his shot and he comes to the same conclusion. This form makes his handicap as a pull-up jump shooter off the dribble.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yT86sfzm5-0


And let's stop acting like changing your form is impossible. Look at this video when he is shooting like Kuzma. Are you going to tell me it doesn't look better? as if he can create more space?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVSjZLS66OQ
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 8:03 pm    Post subject:

lakersfever714 wrote:
The BPM will tell you that Lonzo actually has a negative contribution on the offensive end so he must be doing something wrong. Without that drive to the hoop and a good jumpshot, he loses that ability to pump fake to get easy points via free throw shooting. He's terrible on offense when teams aren't even guarding him that tightly yet. They're actually giving him space to shoot and to pass.

Hint: 19-20 year old rookie PGs are often not very good on offense.
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 8:24 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
MJST wrote:
Lonzo's form isn't the issue, when he consistently fires it from the right spot without missing it. When he raises it just slightly(his high school form) it's essentially like Durant's form.

We even saw him going back to it slightly during his 'hot streak' and Magic referred to this as well in the end of the season pressers when it came to Lonzo's jumper.


Besides there's more to Lonzo's game than his jumper, and he does that more at an extremely high level for a rookie and in general. All are good signs. Ya'll focus on his jumper way too much when the adjustment to 'fix it' doesn't even have to be that drastic.

How players shoot as HS sophomores is never the same form the have when they grow
Lonzo's form was consistently his unique form this year he didn't raise it to any degree close to KD


Shame. I wish Zo took on his sophomore HS form again.
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GoldenThroat
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 9:21 pm    Post subject:

lakersfever714 wrote:
The BPM will tell you that Lonzo actually has a negative contribution on the offensive end so he must be doing something wrong. Without that drive to the hoop and a good jumpshot, he loses that ability to pump fake to get easy points via free throw shooting. He's terrible on offense when teams aren't even guarding him that tightly yet. They're actually giving him space to shoot and to pass.


Class of 2017 Point Guards by OBPM

1) Lonzo Ball..............-0.8
2) Dennis Smith, Jr.....-1.5
3) Frank Mason..........-2.0
4) De'Aaron Fox.........-2.8
5) Frank Ntilikina.......-3.5
6) Markelle Fultz........-3.8
7) Jawun Evans.........-4.2
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 9:25 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
lakersfever714 wrote:
The BPM will tell you that Lonzo actually has a negative contribution on the offensive end so he must be doing something wrong. Without that drive to the hoop and a good jumpshot, he loses that ability to pump fake to get easy points via free throw shooting. He's terrible on offense when teams aren't even guarding him that tightly yet. They're actually giving him space to shoot and to pass.


Class of 2017 Point Guards by OBPM

1) Lonzo Ball..............-0.8
2) Dennis Smith, Jr.....-1.5
3) Frank Mason..........-2.0
4) De'Aaron Fox.........-2.8
5) Frank Ntilikina.......-3.5
6) Markelle Fultz........-3.8
7) Jawun Evans.........-4.2


I feel like he enjoys being proven wrong ...
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 9:32 pm    Post subject:

We do need PG to ease the pressure off of Zo too

Man canít wait to see this kid reach his potential!
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 10:37 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
lakersfever714 wrote:
The BPM will tell you that Lonzo actually has a negative contribution on the offensive end so he must be doing something wrong. Without that drive to the hoop and a good jumpshot, he loses that ability to pump fake to get easy points via free throw shooting. He's terrible on offense when teams aren't even guarding him that tightly yet. They're actually giving him space to shoot and to pass.


Class of 2017 Point Guards by OBPM

1) Lonzo Ball..............-0.8
2) Dennis Smith, Jr.....-1.5
3) Frank Mason..........-2.0
4) De'Aaron Fox.........-2.8
5) Frank Ntilikina.......-3.5
6) Markelle Fultz........-3.8
7) Jawun Evans.........-4.2



Irving: 4.9
Cp3: 4.7
Lowry 2.3
Curry: 1.8
Lillard: 2.7
Simmons: 1.0
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GoldenThroat
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 9:00 am    Post subject:

watchME wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
lakersfever714 wrote:
The BPM will tell you that Lonzo actually has a negative contribution on the offensive end so he must be doing something wrong. Without that drive to the hoop and a good jumpshot, he loses that ability to pump fake to get easy points via free throw shooting. He's terrible on offense when teams aren't even guarding him that tightly yet. They're actually giving him space to shoot and to pass.


Class of 2017 Point Guards by OBPM

1) Lonzo Ball..............-0.8
2) Dennis Smith, Jr.....-1.5
3) Frank Mason..........-2.0
4) De'Aaron Fox.........-2.8
5) Frank Ntilikina.......-3.5
6) Markelle Fultz........-3.8
7) Jawun Evans.........-4.2



Irving: 4.9
Cp3: 4.7
Lowry 2.3
Curry: 1.8
Lillard: 2.7
Simmons: 1.0


Kyle Lowry played in 10 games as a rookie. lol

Irving is the only guy on that list who was a one & done who didn't take a redshirt year.

Every One & Done PG in NBA History Who Played at Least Half of the Season, ORPM (assuming I didn't leave someone out)

1) Kyrie Irving = +4.9
2) Stephon Marbury = +2.0
3) Derrick Rose = +0.9
4) Brandon Jennings = +0.6
5) Brandon Knight = 0.0
6) John Wall = 0.0
7) D'Angelo Russell = -0.2
8) Jamal Murray = -0.5
9) Tony Parker = -0.5
10) Lonzo Ball = -0.8
11) Jrue Holiday = -0.8
12) Mike Conley = -1.1
13) Dajuan Wagner = -1.1
14) Dennis Smith, Jr = -1.5
15) Dante Exum = -2.6
16) De'Aaron Fox = -2.8
17) Emmanuel Mudiay = -3.1
18) Frank Ntilikina = -3.5
19) Denis Schroder = -6.2
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Last edited by GoldenThroat on Mon May 14, 2018 9:19 am; edited 2 times in total
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 9:09 am    Post subject:

^^ Irving was more 1/3 and done.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 9:15 am    Post subject:

Chris Paul played two seasons in college, fwiw.
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GoldenThroat
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 9:19 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Chris Paul played two seasons in college, fwiw.


Fixed it, thanks.
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 10:18 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
watchME wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
lakersfever714 wrote:
The BPM will tell you that Lonzo actually has a negative contribution on the offensive end so he must be doing something wrong. Without that drive to the hoop and a good jumpshot, he loses that ability to pump fake to get easy points via free throw shooting. He's terrible on offense when teams aren't even guarding him that tightly yet. They're actually giving him space to shoot and to pass.


Class of 2017 Point Guards by OBPM

1) Lonzo Ball..............-0.8
2) Dennis Smith, Jr.....-1.5
3) Frank Mason..........-2.0
4) De'Aaron Fox.........-2.8
5) Frank Ntilikina.......-3.5
6) Markelle Fultz........-3.8
7) Jawun Evans.........-4.2



Irving: 4.9
Cp3: 4.7
Lowry 2.3
Curry: 1.8
Lillard: 2.7
Simmons: 1.0


Kyle Lowry played in 10 games as a rookie. lol

Irving is the only guy on that list who was a one & done who didn't take a redshirt year.

Every One & Done PG in NBA History Who Played at Least Half of the Season, ORPM (assuming I didn't leave someone out)

1) Kyrie Irving = +4.9
2) Stephon Marbury = +2.0
3) Derrick Rose = +0.9
4) Brandon Jennings = +0.6
5) Brandon Knight = 0.0
6) John Wall = 0.0
7) D'Angelo Russell = -0.2
8) Jamal Murray = -0.5
9) Tony Parker = -0.5
10) Lonzo Ball = -0.8
11) Jrue Holiday = -0.8
12) Mike Conley = -1.1
13) Dajuan Wagner = -1.1
14) Dennis Smith, Jr = -1.5
15) Dante Exum = -2.6
16) De'Aaron Fox = -2.8
17) Emmanuel Mudiay = -3.1
18) Frank Ntilikina = -3.5
19) Denis Schroder = -6.2


Emmanuel Mudiay = -3.1
Frank Ntilikina = -3.5
Denis Schroder = -6.2
Dante Exum = -2.6
Tony Parker = -0.5


Those players played internationally, they are even more inexperienced than 1 and done.

If you look at the list and think about which players would be considered good picks at 2nd in last year's draft it would be.

Kyrie Irving = +4.9
Stephon Marbury = +2.0
Derrick Rose = +0.9
John Wall = 0.0

none negative.

I love Lonzo's game, I think he is a more impactful player than all those we have mentioned just because of his IQ and selfless play, but until he fixes his shot he will be a minus on offense. He shot 45% from the FT line...How can you play him in the clutch?

He has a complete game as far as:
Defense
Rebounding
Passing

He is almost perfect..all he needs is to change his shot and he will be a star in his 3rd year. It will allow him to pull up off the dribble, that will force defenders to crowd him, that will allow him to drive by them...It's that simple.
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BigGameHames
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 10:21 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
watchME wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
lakersfever714 wrote:
The BPM will tell you that Lonzo actually has a negative contribution on the offensive end so he must be doing something wrong. Without that drive to the hoop and a good jumpshot, he loses that ability to pump fake to get easy points via free throw shooting. He's terrible on offense when teams aren't even guarding him that tightly yet. They're actually giving him space to shoot and to pass.


Class of 2017 Point Guards by OBPM

1) Lonzo Ball..............-0.8
2) Dennis Smith, Jr.....-1.5
3) Frank Mason..........-2.0
4) De'Aaron Fox.........-2.8
5) Frank Ntilikina.......-3.5
6) Markelle Fultz........-3.8
7) Jawun Evans.........-4.2



Irving: 4.9
Cp3: 4.7
Lowry 2.3
Curry: 1.8
Lillard: 2.7
Simmons: 1.0


Kyle Lowry played in 10 games as a rookie. lol

Irving is the only guy on that list who was a one & done who didn't take a redshirt year.

Every One & Done PG in NBA History Who Played at Least Half of the Season, ORPM (assuming I didn't leave someone out)

1) Kyrie Irving = +4.9
2) Stephon Marbury = +2.0
3) Derrick Rose = +0.9
4) Brandon Jennings = +0.6
5) Brandon Knight = 0.0
6) John Wall = 0.0
7) D'Angelo Russell = -0.2
8) Jamal Murray = -0.5
9) Tony Parker = -0.5
10) Lonzo Ball = -0.8
11) Jrue Holiday = -0.8
12) Mike Conley = -1.1
13) Dajuan Wagner = -1.1
14) Dennis Smith, Jr = -1.5
15) Dante Exum = -2.6
16) De'Aaron Fox = -2.8
17) Emmanuel Mudiay = -3.1
18) Frank Ntilikina = -3.5
19) Denis Schroder = -6.2


Can we see this list for BPM so his DBPM is accounted for?
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 10:25 am    Post subject:

https://youtu.be/ONChJYuQagg?t=208

Look at his form in his 2 mid range shots..It's way different and look at how smooth it looked...nothing but net.
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 10:32 am    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
Can we see this list for BPM so his DBPM is accounted for?


One & Done PGs by BPM (minimum 41 games)

1) Kyrie Irving = + 3.3
2) Lonzo Ball = +1.7
3) Brandon Jennings +0.9
4) John Wall = -0.2
5) Tony Parker = -0.4
6) Derrick Rose = -0.6
7) Stephon Marbury = -1.0
8) Jrue Holiday = -1.8
9) D'Angelo Russell = -1.8
10) Brandon Knight = -1.9
11) Dennis Smith, Jr. = -2.3
12) Jamal Murray = -2.6
13) Mike Conley = -3.0
14) Dante Exum = -3.8
15) Frank Ntilikina = -3.9
16) Emmanuel Mudiay = -4.3
17) De'Aaron Fox = -4.4
18) Dajuan Wagner = -5.2
19) Denis Schroder = -8.3
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 10:38 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
Can we see this list for BPM so his DBPM is accounted for?


One & Done PGs by BPM (minimum 41 games)

1) Kyrie Irving = + 3.3
2) Lonzo Ball = +1.7
3) Brandon Jennings +0.9
4) John Wall = -0.2
5) Tony Parker = -0.4
6) Derrick Rose = -0.6
7) Stephon Marbury = -1.0
8) Jrue Holiday = -1.8
9) D'Angelo Russell = -1.8
10) Brandon Knight = -1.9
11) Dennis Smith, Jr. = -2.3
12) Jamal Murray = -2.6
13) Mike Conley = -3.0
14) Dante Exum = -3.8
15) Frank Ntilikina = -3.9
16) Emmanuel Mudiay = -4.3
17) De'Aaron Fox = -4.4
18) Dajuan Wagner = -5.2
19) Denis Schroder = -8.3


Thanks
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 10:48 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
Can we see this list for BPM so his DBPM is accounted for?


One & Done PGs by BPM (minimum 41 games)

1) Kyrie Irving = + 3.3
2) Lonzo Ball = +1.7
3) Brandon Jennings +0.9
4) John Wall = -0.2
5) Tony Parker = -0.4
6) Derrick Rose = -0.6
7) Stephon Marbury = -1.0
8) Jrue Holiday = -1.8
9) D'Angelo Russell = -1.8
10) Brandon Knight = -1.9
11) Dennis Smith, Jr. = -2.3
12) Jamal Murray = -2.6
13) Mike Conley = -3.0
14) Dante Exum = -3.8
15) Frank Ntilikina = -3.9
16) Emmanuel Mudiay = -4.3
17) De'Aaron Fox = -4.4
18) Dajuan Wagner = -5.2
19) Denis Schroder = -8.3


When more than scoring is factored turns out he's not terrible
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 10:42 am    Post subject:

Zo reminds me of "DJ" Dennis Johnson and Jason Kidd...
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 8:01 am    Post subject:

JerryWest_44 wrote:
Zo reminds me of "DJ" Dennis Johnson and Jason Kidd...
maybe
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