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epak
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 Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| numero-ocho wrote: | | 32 wrote: | Mike Bresnahan
@Mike_Bresnahan
Lakers announce that Lonzo Ball had successful arthroscopic surgery on his left knee. A specific timetable was not released but he is expected to make a full recovery by the start of training camp, Lakers say. |
 Found this comment on Bleacher Report.
| Quote: | Joe Claspell
Can we stop reporting that surguries are a "success"? At this point, it should only be news when a Dr. says I think I made it worse, actually |
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Yea. I'm sure if someone was having heart surgery, his loved ones don't need to hear that the surgery was a success. |
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All_Star_Laker
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Joined: 30 Jul 2005
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Location: NYC
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:59 am Post subject: |
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| numero-ocho wrote: | | 32 wrote: | Mike Bresnahan
@Mike_Bresnahan
Lakers announce that Lonzo Ball had successful arthroscopic surgery on his left knee. A specific timetable was not released but he is expected to make a full recovery by the start of training camp, Lakers say. |
Found this comment on Bleacher Report.
| Quote: | Joe Claspell
Can we stop reporting that surguries are a "success"? At this point, it should only be news when a Dr. says I think I made it worse, actually |
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Typical comment in this entitled world. Yes surgeries are easy and I expect it to be perfect or I’m going to sue.
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lakerican
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Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 3793
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:31 am Post subject: |
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| All_Star_Laker wrote: | | numero-ocho wrote: | | 32 wrote: | Mike Bresnahan
@Mike_Bresnahan
Lakers announce that Lonzo Ball had successful arthroscopic surgery on his left knee. A specific timetable was not released but he is expected to make a full recovery by the start of training camp, Lakers say. |
Found this comment on Bleacher Report.
| Quote: | Joe Claspell
Can we stop reporting that surguries are a "success"? At this point, it should only be news when a Dr. says I think I made it worse, actually |
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Typical comment in this entitled world. Yes surgeries are easy and I expect it to be perfect or I’m going to sue. |
Yeah, In this time, people will complain why a selfie with the doctor & nurses is not included! |
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epak
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:54 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Mike Trudell
@LakersReporter
Rob Pelinka added this on the @SpectrumSN broadcast last night: “I was with Lonzo today, he had a very successful scope on his knee. We’re really excited to have that behind us and he’s in a great space." |
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LandsbergerRules
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Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 11197
Location: The Other Perspective
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:57 am Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | Quote: |
Mike Trudell
@LakersReporter
Rob Pelinka added this on the @SpectrumSN broadcast last night: “I was with Lonzo today, he had a very successful scope on his knee. We’re really excited to have that behind us and he’s in a great space." |
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I hope he's in a great space mentally the next time he has to shoot some free throws in a game. 
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-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
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adkindo
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Joined: 16 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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cool interactive graphic for both Lonzo lovers and haters....
https://lonzowire.usatoday.com/2018/07/18/lakers-sign-nba-summer-league-invite-joel-berry-ii/
it is mid-page and shows Lonzo's effect on the Offense and Defense last year....the haters can point out how the offense slightly improved with Lonzo on the bench....or got worse when he was on the court.....while the lovers will point out the drastic improvement on defense with him on the court....and the cliff it falls off of while he was on the bench. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | cool interactive graphic for both Lonzo lovers and haters....
https://lonzowire.usatoday.com/2018/07/18/lakers-sign-nba-summer-league-invite-joel-berry-ii/
it is mid-page and shows Lonzo's effect on the Offense and Defense last year....the haters can point out how the offense slightly improved with Lonzo on the bench....or got worse when he was on the court.....while the lovers will point out the drastic improvement on defense with him on the court....and the cliff it falls off of while he was on the bench. |
What surprises me is that a guy with a .444 TS% doesn't hurt the team more than a point per 100 possessions on offense.
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adkindo
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | cool interactive graphic for both Lonzo lovers and haters....
https://lonzowire.usatoday.com/2018/07/18/lakers-sign-nba-summer-league-invite-joel-berry-ii/
it is mid-page and shows Lonzo's effect on the Offense and Defense last year....the haters can point out how the offense slightly improved with Lonzo on the bench....or got worse when he was on the court.....while the lovers will point out the drastic improvement on defense with him on the court....and the cliff it falls off of while he was on the bench. |
What surprises me is that a guy with a .444 TS% doesn't hurt the team more than a point per 100 possessions on offense. |
exhibit A: the "lovers" response. 
fwiw....I think watching that massive climb/fall the little graphic does as it moves up and down on defense depending on if Ball was on the court or off is the biggest wow factor for anyone not knowing the numbers...or even knowing the numbers.....but actually seeing how far it moves up and down. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | cool interactive graphic for both Lonzo lovers and haters....
https://lonzowire.usatoday.com/2018/07/18/lakers-sign-nba-summer-league-invite-joel-berry-ii/
it is mid-page and shows Lonzo's effect on the Offense and Defense last year....the haters can point out how the offense slightly improved with Lonzo on the bench....or got worse when he was on the court.....while the lovers will point out the drastic improvement on defense with him on the court....and the cliff it falls off of while he was on the bench. |
What surprises me is that a guy with a .444 TS% doesn't hurt the team more than a point per 100 possessions on offense. |
exhibit A: the "lovers" response.
fwiw....I think watching that massive climb/fall the little graphic does as it moves up and down on defense depending on if Ball was on the court or off is the biggest wow factor for anyone not knowing the numbers...or even knowing the numbers.....but actually seeing how far it moves up and down. |
If you think he'll become a relatively adequate shooter in time - say around .53 TS% - even without developing as an iso or PnR scorer, I think you have to recognize his overall value as a borderline star/star role player because his defense and passing add so much value.
And if he can improve his handle and add a few reliable iso scoring moves, he could become elite. But I'll settle for hitting 60% of his FTs for now.
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myunibrodavis
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Joined: 18 Jul 2018
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | cool interactive graphic for both Lonzo lovers and haters....
https://lonzowire.usatoday.com/2018/07/18/lakers-sign-nba-summer-league-invite-joel-berry-ii/
it is mid-page and shows Lonzo's effect on the Offense and Defense last year....the haters can point out how the offense slightly improved with Lonzo on the bench....or got worse when he was on the court.....while the lovers will point out the drastic improvement on defense with him on the court....and the cliff it falls off of while he was on the bench. |
What surprises me is that a guy with a .444 TS% doesn't hurt the team more than a point per 100 possessions on offense. |
isolating to after the new year, lonzo improved the team by 2.8 points per possession on offense with him on the floor
that improvement, for players with over 200 minutes in that span, is behind only KCP, randle, and thomas |
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PauPau
Starting Rotation
Joined: 12 Jul 2018
Posts: 844
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| myunibrodavis wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | cool interactive graphic for both Lonzo lovers and haters....
https://lonzowire.usatoday.com/2018/07/18/lakers-sign-nba-summer-league-invite-joel-berry-ii/
it is mid-page and shows Lonzo's effect on the Offense and Defense last year....the haters can point out how the offense slightly improved with Lonzo on the bench....or got worse when he was on the court.....while the lovers will point out the drastic improvement on defense with him on the court....and the cliff it falls off of while he was on the bench. |
What surprises me is that a guy with a .444 TS% doesn't hurt the team more than a point per 100 possessions on offense. |
isolating to after the new year, lonzo improved the team by 2.8 points per possession on offense with him on the floor
that improvement, for players with over 200 minutes in that span, is behind only KCP, randle, and thomas |
Exhibit B |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| myunibrodavis wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | cool interactive graphic for both Lonzo lovers and haters....
https://lonzowire.usatoday.com/2018/07/18/lakers-sign-nba-summer-league-invite-joel-berry-ii/
it is mid-page and shows Lonzo's effect on the Offense and Defense last year....the haters can point out how the offense slightly improved with Lonzo on the bench....or got worse when he was on the court.....while the lovers will point out the drastic improvement on defense with him on the court....and the cliff it falls off of while he was on the bench. |
What surprises me is that a guy with a .444 TS% doesn't hurt the team more than a point per 100 possessions on offense. |
isolating to after the new year, lonzo improved the team by 2.8 points per possession on offense with him on the floor
that improvement, for players with over 200 minutes in that span, is behind only KCP, randle, and thomas |
That's fascinating, and it jives with what I believe I saw from Jacob Goldstein whose PIPM data had Lonzo providing top-15 player impact during his good shooting streak that occurred mostly in January and February (as well as late December and early March). Obviously a lot of that impact comes on defense, but on offense when he's hitting his threes, he's a legit positive player on that end (+2.8) as you note. And that's still without getting to the line or hitting his FTs.
Anyway, thank you for the info. Are you pulling it from NBA stats?
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Last edited by Baron Von Humongous on Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| PauPau wrote: | | myunibrodavis wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | cool interactive graphic for both Lonzo lovers and haters....
https://lonzowire.usatoday.com/2018/07/18/lakers-sign-nba-summer-league-invite-joel-berry-ii/
it is mid-page and shows Lonzo's effect on the Offense and Defense last year....the haters can point out how the offense slightly improved with Lonzo on the bench....or got worse when he was on the court.....while the lovers will point out the drastic improvement on defense with him on the court....and the cliff it falls off of while he was on the bench. |
What surprises me is that a guy with a .444 TS% doesn't hurt the team more than a point per 100 possessions on offense. |
isolating to after the new year, lonzo improved the team by 2.8 points per possession on offense with him on the floor
that improvement, for players with over 200 minutes in that span, is behind only KCP, randle, and thomas |
Exhibit B |
Is this Hero Ball's Eric Jr. account?
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PICKnPOP
Star Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Posts: 5389
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | myunibrodavis wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | cool interactive graphic for both Lonzo lovers and haters....
https://lonzowire.usatoday.com/2018/07/18/lakers-sign-nba-summer-league-invite-joel-berry-ii/
it is mid-page and shows Lonzo's effect on the Offense and Defense last year....the haters can point out how the offense slightly improved with Lonzo on the bench....or got worse when he was on the court.....while the lovers will point out the drastic improvement on defense with him on the court....and the cliff it falls off of while he was on the bench. |
What surprises me is that a guy with a .444 TS% doesn't hurt the team more than a point per 100 possessions on offense. |
isolating to after the new year, lonzo improved the team by 2.8 points per possession on offense with him on the floor
that improvement, for players with over 200 minutes in that span, is behind only KCP, randle, and thomas |
That's fascinating, and it jives with what I believe I saw from Jacob Goldstein whose PIPM data had Lonzo providing top-15 player impact during his good shooting streak that occurred mostly in January and February (as well as late December and early March). Obviously a lot of that impact comes on defense, but on offense when he's hitting his threes, he's a legit positive player on that end (+2.8) as you note. And that's still without getting to the line or hitting his FTs.
Abyway, thank you for the info. Are you pulling it from NBA stats? |
Lonzo is that guy who can fit with any other star player and shine without taking anything away from other star players game. In fact, he will likely add to thier games by giving them a few easy buckets a game.
Personally I think it’s crazy that he is always involved in trade rumors. I think he’s the Tim Duncan of our franchise. A player you can just keep building around over and over again for the next 15 years and stay contending. Easy to build around. |
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myunibrodavis
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Joined: 18 Jul 2018
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:32 am Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | myunibrodavis wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | cool interactive graphic for both Lonzo lovers and haters....
https://lonzowire.usatoday.com/2018/07/18/lakers-sign-nba-summer-league-invite-joel-berry-ii/
it is mid-page and shows Lonzo's effect on the Offense and Defense last year....the haters can point out how the offense slightly improved with Lonzo on the bench....or got worse when he was on the court.....while the lovers will point out the drastic improvement on defense with him on the court....and the cliff it falls off of while he was on the bench. |
What surprises me is that a guy with a .444 TS% doesn't hurt the team more than a point per 100 possessions on offense. |
isolating to after the new year, lonzo improved the team by 2.8 points per possession on offense with him on the floor
that improvement, for players with over 200 minutes in that span, is behind only KCP, randle, and thomas |
That's fascinating, and it jives with what I believe I saw from Jacob Goldstein whose PIPM data had Lonzo providing top-15 player impact during his good shooting streak that occurred mostly in January and February (as well as late December and early March). Obviously a lot of that impact comes on defense, but on offense when he's hitting his threes, he's a legit positive player on that end (+2.8) as you note. And that's still without getting to the line or hitting his FTs.
Anyway, thank you for the info. Are you pulling it from NBA stats? |
yeah. in that span of time lonzo shot 47TS btw.
his playmaking ability in the half court offense improved in that time (making reads and such through experience cuz he wasn't so accustomed to the nuances p and r game in ucla)
the span of time idt was big enough for it to be indicative of his impact, but his already a potentially very high impact player and having rondo and lebron to tutor him in the half court offense can only help
lonzo has an innate gift of non ball dominant playmaking which is extremely effective. i'm hoping rondos and lebron influence doesent turn him into more of a ball stopper playmaker because that would really cut a lot of his offensive potential.
he essentially became a fair positive on offense in the second half of the season, despite arguably being the worst, least efficient scorer in the league.
his shot selection makes it so that if he gets stronger and becomes better at 3s he could be an efficient scorer at some point. if he keeps improving his halfcourt offense with reps and continues to improve his scoring and shooting while not losing anything in defense, he could potentially be the best of the young core, because he has an innate bball iq both on ball and off ball his other teammates lack |
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watchME
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Joined: 06 May 2011
Posts: 3384
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:46 am Post subject: |
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| are his impressive defensive # and better than expected offensive stats impacted by the lack of a decent back up? essentially they are comparing when ennis was on the floor vs ball right? |
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PauPau
Starting Rotation
Joined: 12 Jul 2018
Posts: 844
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:40 am Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: |
Is this Hero Ball's Eric Jr. account? |
Nope. |
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Hero Ball
Star Player
Joined: 26 May 2015
Posts: 4403
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:44 am Post subject: |
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| PauPau wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: |
Is this Hero Ball's Eric Jr. account? |
Nope. |
What?
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Trade AD now. |
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PauPau
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Joined: 12 Jul 2018
Posts: 844
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:49 am Post subject: |
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| Hero Ball wrote: | | PauPau wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: |
Is this Hero Ball's Eric Jr. account? |
Nope. |
What? |
No idea where that came from also, you've obviously been missed. |
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myunibrodavis
Rookie
Joined: 18 Jul 2018
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:53 am Post subject: |
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| watchME wrote: | | are his impressive defensive # and better than expected offensive stats impacted by the lack of a decent back up? essentially they are comparing when ennis was on the floor vs ball right? |
Ennis has fairly solid on court defensive rtg so that definitely isn’t the reason
The offensive numbers might make sense but his on court rtg was still among the highest for players who played significant minutes in that span
His defensive numbers actually aren’t as impressive as they should be because he spent time with isaiah in the latter half of the year, and Isaiah is an all time bad defender |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:04 am Post subject: |
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| PauPau wrote: | | Hero Ball wrote: | | PauPau wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: |
Is this Hero Ball's Eric Jr. account? |
Nope. |
What? |
No idea where that came from also, you've obviously been missed. |
This exchange isn't suspicious at all...
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:39 am Post subject: |
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This is a great quote from Brett Brown on rookies and NBA defense:
link
I think that bodes well for the future of last year's rookies like Simmons, Tatum, Mitchell, and Lonzo on defense.
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adkindo
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Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | PauPau wrote: | | Hero Ball wrote: | | PauPau wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: |
Is this Hero Ball's Eric Jr. account? |
Nope. |
What? |
No idea where that came from also, you've obviously been missed. |
This exchange isn't suspicious at all... |
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Dumhead
Star Player
Joined: 01 May 2006
Posts: 3286
Location: Low Post Rate
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | PauPau wrote: | | Hero Ball wrote: | | PauPau wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: |
Is this Hero Ball's Eric Jr. account? |
Nope. |
What? |
No idea where that came from also, you've obviously been missed. |
This exchange isn't suspicious at all... |
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"We got a new universe coming and he's going to control all our universes. We're going to put our universes together" - Metta World Peace |
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PHILosophize
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Joined: 05 Nov 2012
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:51 am Post subject: |
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_________________
one dog goes that way the other dog goes the other way |
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